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Game of the year? Game of the Year.

how is this delivery different than what we've seen before? I keep asking you to explain the delivery method, but then you ignore me and start talking about character identities (which is a completely different thing)

I could make a crime story about nephalim and demons, because nephalim and demons are just identities, the crime story is the plot. Same with this game: nephalim and demons are just identities, you could easily replace them with other identities and the plot would still make sense.
I gave specifics earlier. The way the delivery is unique is through the character's personalities, their journeys, and their actions. For example, the way that the world is explained to try and kill Dante is an extremely different way to describe the common "bad guy trying to kill good guy"scenario.
 
datamining confirmed you turn away from the order and end up fighting and defeating vergil. This prediction ended up being 100% true. The rest is yet to be seen. Another popular prediction is that mundus will end up being a really huge, fat blob of a demon, and after he's defeated, dante will force feed him his children that lillith is constantly birthing.
Data mining is the process of extrapolating patterns from large data sets, not stealing information. If you mean a leaked script, then you should know that the one involving Dante force-feeding babies to Mundus was implied to be false by Tameem Antoniades. It's not impossible that it's true, but if it were, it would be contextualized differently by the details surrounding it.

Think anything can sound generic when you describe things as I have? Okay, challenge accepted: "queen of the damned", book version. Strip it down to its extremely generic elements and make it sound as cliche and ordinary as possible.
OK. An ancient evil is inadvertently awakened, and threatens to reshape the world in her image. She confronts the heroes and demands that they join her or die. An ally appears, who fells the ancient evil and seals her powers away, and the heroes returned to their lives.

I may have missed some important details, having gleaned this information from a wikipedia article, but I think that was the point of this exercise.

being a nephalim is not a unique trait in a story. You could slap in being a nephalim as the *last* part of writing your story and have it change nothing. Your character's actions and motivations are what make the story, not the labels.
On the contrary, it changes how the hero interacts with the world around him. Being a Nephilim implies he has some sort of supernatural presence, and influences his actions and goals. If the author ignored this detail when writing the story, then it would be a frivolous and useless detail.

If I copied the exact plot of the matrix, but I made the main character a nephalim, and the antagonists demons instead of robots, would it be a unique plot because "it's presented differently"? Because from what I've been hearing from you guys, you seem to think it would.
Well... yes. Details contextualize the story. Many legends and stories comply with Joseph Campbell's idea of the Monomyth, the "universal plot." The Matrix is one such story. Were I to change the Matrix itself into space, and robots into an army of spaceships, it would be Star Wars.

what I suspect is happening is you just don't know how to properly communicate what it is you want to say. You mean to tell me that all the little things that happen during the course of the story are more important than the story itself, not that changing everyone's name tags makes for a unique story. Am I correct?
It's possible that there's been some miscommunication. However, the name tags are one of the many important little things that set a story apart. Details + plot = story.
 
You just don't get it. Have you actually seen a game that looks and feels EXACTLY like this? That has used actual actors in it's story and a narrative drive and reason for it's mechanics? Why are you angry at cliches that have survived decades of story telling if it's not for it's worth in retelling in new ways?
because I feel a story about an evil government overthrown by the outcast badmouthed hero and the underground good guys is not a story that needs to be retold. It's boring, it's been done to death, it needs to just die. I don't keep a list of games with this exact plot on hand because I specifically avoid them for their terrible story. The only reason this game is standing out to me is because it's got "Devil may cry" on the box. That's literally the only reason I didn't look at this game's plot and immediately leave. I'm giving it a chance because I own that much to the series.

and I'm not sure why people are hyping up this live actor thing, games have been doing that forever. Hell, DMC3 used actual actors to capture motion and voice at the same time just like this, so it's not actually innovative for it to be used now, let alone relevant to the game's story
 
because I feel a story about an evil government overthrown by the outcast badmouthed hero and the underground good guys is not a story that needs to be retold. It's boring, it's been done to death, it needs to just die. I don't keep a list of games with this exact plot on hand because I specifically avoid them for their terrible story. The only reason this game is standing out to me is because it's got "Devil may cry" on the box. That's literally the only reason I didn't look at this game's plot and immediately leave. I'm giving it a chance because I own that much to the series.

and I'm not sure why people are hyping up this live actor thing, games have been doing that forever. Hell, DMC3 used actual actors to capture motion and voice at the same time just like this, so it's not actually innovative for it to be used now, let alone relevant to the game's story
Well can you at least give us a list of these games with similar stories to DmC that you avoided?
 
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA OK. Let's ignore this guy people. Clearly doesn't what to understand what we say anyway.
 
You guys are honestly just going circle. Whether the story is that cliche or the delivery of the story AKA Storytelling will be good or bad, we still honestly don't know. Let us just leave at that.

1141269.jpg
 
OK. An ancient evil is inadvertently awakened, and threatens to reshape the world in her image. She confronts the heroes and demands that they join her or die. An ally appears, who fells the ancient evil and seals her powers away, and the heroes returned to their lives.
I may have missed some important details, having gleaned this information from a wikipedia article, but I think that was the point of this exercise.
close, and a damn good attempt for just reading the wikipedia. I'll let you judge for yourself how generic this plot sounds

On the contrary, it changes how the hero interacts with the world around him. Being a Nephilim implies he has some sort of supernatural presence, and influences his actions and goals. If the author ignored this detail when writing the story, then it would be a frivolous and useless detail.
being a nephalim is a plot tool used to explain *why* the character is an outcast, as well as a game mechanic to explain his powers, but otherwise you could replace this with just about anything and it would still work.

at its core, this isn't a story about how demons specifically interact with nephalim, it's a story about power and corruption, and being rejected by society. Something that's been overdone, because it always appeals to teenage audiences.


Well... yes. Details contextualize the story. Many legends and stories comply with Joseph Campbell's idea of the Monomyth, the "universal plot." The Matrix is one such story. Were I to change the Matrix itself into space, and robots into an army of spaceships, it would be Star Wars.
a version of star wars where spaceships harvest humans and keep them trapped in space, but a clever illusion makes them think they're on earth, and... okay, you're losing me. By making robots into spaceships, how is this now the matrix? Changing the identities alone did not change this movie into a different movie.


It's possible that there's been some miscommunication. However, the name tags are one of the many important little things that set a story apart. Details + plot = story.
this is very true, and I won't argue that.
 
because I feel a story about an evil government overthrown by the outcast badmouthed hero and the underground good guys is not a story that needs to be retold. It's boring, it's been done to death, it needs to just die.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA OK. Let's ignore this guy people. Clearly doesn't what to understand what we say anyway.

OK, I've got this.

Kam, it's OK not to like a premise. I've turned down several stories that I had only cursory information on because I just didn't like how they sounded. It's cool. I think this is a personal preference thing.

Paexie, that's a very dismissive statement, and if I were in Kam's shoes, I'd feel pretty defensive, too. It's possible that Kam "doesn't want to understand" because of these sorts of comments. I get that you're trying to explain something and feel invalidated that who you're speaking with doesn't seem to get it. It feels like you're speaking different languages, almost.

I know the internet can cause hiccups in communication, but we're a community waiting for what looks like an awesome game for a variety of reasons. That variety is up to the player. Let's share those opinions in a way that doesn't put others down or insult the work that Ninja Theory has put into this game. Let's have some fun.
 
You guys are honestly just going circle. Whether the story is that cliche or the delivery of the story AKA Storytelling will be good or bad, we still honestly don't know. Let us just leave at that.

1141269.jpg
I can agree to this. Story might be good or might not be, we'll see.

So... about that art? Sure is pretty!
 
OK, I've got this.

Kam, it's OK not to like a premise. I've turned down several stories that I had only cursory information on because I just didn't like how they sounded. It's cool. I think this is a personal preference thing.

Paexie, that's a very dismissive statement, and if I were in Kam's shoes, I'd feel pretty defensive, too. It's possible that Kam "doesn't want to understand" because of these sorts of comments. I get that you're trying to explain something and feel invalidated that who you're speaking with doesn't seem to get it. It feels like you're speaking different languages, almost.

I know the internet can cause hiccups in communication, but we're a community waiting for what looks like an awesome game for a variety of reasons. That variety is up to the player. Let's share those opinions in a way that doesn't put others down or insult the work that Ninja Theory has put into this game. Let's have some fun.
I like you. Okay, I can agree to this.

I'll admit that this particular plot is one I personally find distasteful, and it may be biasing me against taking a closer look, but I'm going to try. I promise, I will try really hard to swallow my knee jerk reactions and give it a shot. All I'm trying to say though is that we should keep our expectations realistic. It might not be a bad story, but it's not a guaranteed win for best story of the year, not till there's more info
 
a version of star wars where spaceships harvest humans and keep them trapped in space, but a clever illusion makes them think they're on earth, and... okay, you're losing me. By making robots into spaceships, how is this now the matrix? Changing the identities alone did not change this movie into a different movie.
It's all in the details. Identities are a part of it. Instead of Neo learning to bend the universe to his will by manipulating code, Luke learns to bend the universe to his will through the Force. The Empire uses weapons and destruction to enslave and oppress, while the Machines use deception. Details, like heritage, setting, even names, contextualize a plot into a story with a different feel. Even if you had two stories that were the same, word for word, except the main character was named "Clark Harper" in one, and "Alistaire Steel" in the other, the stories would feel different, if just slightly.

I like you. Okay, I can agree to this.

I'll admit that this particular plot is one I personally find distasteful, and it may be biasing me against taking a closer look, but I'm going to try. I promise, I will try really hard to swallow my knee jerk reactions and give it a shot. All I'm trying to say though is that we should keep our expectations realistic. It might not be a bad story, but it's not a guaranteed win for best story of the year, not till there's more info
That's admirable, but if you don't like what you find, I'll respect that you tried. I am not bored of this plot quite yet, so I'm excited to see how the story is fleshed out with its details. I certainly hope it doesn't turn out wretched, but anything is possible.
 
Paexie, that's a very dismissive statement, and if I were in Kam's shoes, I'd feel pretty defensive, too. It's possible that Kam "doesn't want to understand" because of these sorts of comments. I get that you're trying to explain something and feel invalidated that who you're speaking with doesn't seem to get it. It feels like you're speaking different languages, almost.

I know the internet can cause hiccups in communication, but we're a community waiting for what looks like an awesome game for a variety of reasons. That variety is up to the player. Let's share those opinions in a way that doesn't put others down or insult the work that Ninja Theory has put into this game. Let's have some fun.

It is and I won't eat my statements or apologize for calling Kam a dunce or dung. He did in fact think that we where praising this game for having a good story/unique plot when all we did was state that we don't know enough to pin it down as good or not and that there might be more than what NT and Capcom has allowed us to see.

I think Kam knows this and hey I think the plot has done before, but I don't think it's been done in every way possible yet. You can give that award to most zombie and vampire stories.

I don't take lightly to those that put words in my mouth and then deny this too.
I tried to keep it under "nice" terms, but I do have limits and I won't hold punches. Take it as hard honesty if anything.
 
datamining confirmed you turn away from the order and end up fighting and defeating vergil. This prediction ended up being 100% true. The rest is yet to be seen. Another popular prediction is that mundus will end up being a really huge, fat blob of a demon, and after he's defeated, dante will force feed him his children that lillith is constantly birthing.

Force-fed babies was part of the "leaked ending" that was confirmed false. And the only thing really confirmed was that Dante and Vergil will fight, which isn't much of a surprise at all, since it's such an important part of their classic dynamic.

Think anything can sound generic when you describe things as I have? Okay, challenge accepted: "queen of the damned", book version. Strip it down to its extremely generic elements and make it sound as cliche and ordinary as possible.

It's been a long time since I've peeked at that one, unfortunately...but uhhh...ancient ancestor of "evil beings" is awakened and plots to kill humans and their own kind and rule the world, injured person is turned into one of the "evil beings" against their will, character kills big bad evil and takes their place. That's as good as I can do :x

Kinda funny though, because vampires are such a common thing these days (like zombies), it almost wouldn't have hurt the "generalization" to still call them vampires instead of "evil beings."

being a nephalim is not a unique trait in a story. You could slap in being a nephalim as the *last* part of writing your story and have it change nothing. Your character's actions and motivations are what make the story, not the labels.

You could say that, but those "labels" are what often part of a character's actions and motivations. To use Queen of the Damned as an example, how much less important would Akasha be if we never knew what she was and why she was doing the things she did? Without them, she's just a random antagonist who wants to take over the world. If Dante wasn't a Nephilim, he'd just be random duder on the street who gets caught up in something big, completely removing the significance of his heritage and how it affects him throughout the story. Even the classic Dante being "cambion" (a "label" as you call it) is an important part of trying to establish his character. Take away that and he's just "generic, cocky demon hunting with a grudge." Hell, being half-demon is already an oft-used trope >.<

If I copied the exact plot of the matrix, but I made the main character a nephalim, and the antagonists demons instead of robots, would it be a unique plot because "it's presented differently"? Because from what I've been hearing from you guys, you seem to think it would.

So then...demons are enslaving humanity in a virtual reality program to use as batteries in a dying world and the only one who can stop them is the hybrid of a demon and angel? That doesn't really work :/ You can't lift the "exact plot" of something and change only a few things, because then so much else has to change to follow suit - why are the demons using a computer program? Why do demons, being immortal, need to use the humans as batteries in the first place, when they don't need electrical energy to survive. How was a Nephilim created when Angels aren't established in this Matrix rip-off universe? The finer details become very important in not only explaining and justifying the setting and whatever else in the piece, but can also end up making it different from others that use similar tropes :/

Even then, the Matrix Trilogy itself is a very intricate story that differentiates itself well from other "chosen one saves the enslaved" stories because of its finer details/labels/whatever you wanna call them.

what I suspect is happening is you just don't know how to properly communicate what it is you want to say. You mean to tell me that all the little things that happen during the course of the story are more important than the story itself, not that changing everyone's name tags makes for a unique story. Am I correct?

No. I'm not saying the "little things" are more important than the story itself, I'm saying that those "little things" - details like what a character is, or where they came from, etc - are just as important in their own way in establishing the story as something of its own, or establishing the story at all. Like I said before, stories can be unique, but when it starts to use tropes, greater emphasis is placed on how the trope is done differently from others that do it too, like any number of the "chosen one saves the enslaved," "ancient evil reappears to take over the world," "Romeo and Juliet," and "rebellion fights against evil tyranny" stories.

Details are very important. It's the same reasoning behind why reading a slimmed-down synopsis of a story will never have the same impact as actually reading the story in its entirety.

The fact remains that you seem to be condemning DmC's story just because it uses tropes, and it just really sounds like you're being a cynical hipster about things.
 
It is and I won't eat my statements or apologize for calling Kam a dunce or dung. He did in fact think that we where praising this game for having a good story/unique plot when all we did was state that we don't know enough to pin it down as good or not and that there might be more than what NT and Capcom has allowed us to see.

I think Kam knows this and hey I think the plot has done before, but I don't think it's been done in every way possible yet. You can give that award to most zombie and vampire stories.

I don't take lightly to those that put words in my mouth and then deny this too.
I tried to keep it under "nice" terms, but I do have limits and I won't hold punches. Take it as hard honesty if anything.
I'm really excited to see how this plot is executed, too. Honestly, it's tough for me to think of the game, as it has been so far presented, as anything less than perfect in its own way (aside from the missed opportunity for the Demon Block). But that's just me approaching it with my biases and expectations as a long-time DMC fan who wants to see another respected developer's interpretation of the franchise.

It's tough to stay civil when you feel slighted, but I'm really glad that you tried. I just want to see everyone get along, here, after all the BS I've seen on Youtube and the like.
 
It is and I won't eat my statements or apologize for calling Kam a dunce or dung. He did in fact think that we where praising this game for having a good story/unique plot when all we did was state that we don't know enough to pin it down as good or not and that there might be more than what NT and Capcom has allowed us to see.

I think Kam knows this and hey I think the plot has done before, but I don't think it's been done in every way possible yet. You can give that award to most zombie and vampire stories.

I don't take lightly to those that put words in my mouth and then deny this too.
I tried to keep it under "nice" terms, but I do have limits and I won't hold punches. Take it as hard honesty if anything.

I didn't put words in anybody's mouth. I pointed at words that already existed, made a statement that basically said "I strongly disagree with anyone who believes this" and you were the first person to respond to me. I didn't put those words in your mouth, you did it yourself, and not only did you do this yourself, you were among the first to do so.

Maybe you should worry less about "not holding punches" and more about accepting responsibility for your own mistakes, first.
 
Kinda funny though, because vampires are such a common thing these days (like zombies), it almost wouldn't have hurt the "generalization" to still call them vampires instead of "evil beings."
yeah... it's unfortunate, but it's hard to do anything related to vampires these days and not have it automatically associated with twilight :(

it'll probably be a long time before any actual vampire stories start happening again
 
So then...demons are enslaving humanity in a virtual reality program to use as batteries in a dying world and the only one who can stop them is the hybrid of a demon and angel? That doesn't really work :/
What if you replaced "virtual reality program" with "debt, TV, and mind-control drugs," "batteries" with "soul energy," and "prophecized hybrid of human and angel" with "prophecized chosen one"? OK, you got me at "dying world," but the rest works! Maybe... "dying society"? No idea.

Anyway, I think we've got this all settled. Details contextualize plots into a myriad of stories, but those plots sometimes aren't for everyone.
 
I didn't put words in anybody's mouth. I pointed at words that already existed, made a statement that basically said "I strongly disagree with anyone who believes this" and you were the first person to respond to me. I didn't put those words in your mouth, you did it yourself, and not only did you do this yourself, you were among the first to do so.

Maybe you should worry less about "not holding punches" and more about accepting responsibility for your own mistakes, first.
Please don't make me bring Porkins back into this. :troll:
 
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