Game of the year? Game of the Year.

[TWOxACROSS]

because I feel a story about an evil government overthrown by the outcast badmouthed hero and the underground good guys is not a story that needs to be retold. It's boring, it's been done to death, it needs to just die. I don't keep a list of games with this exact plot on hand because I specifically avoid them for their terrible story.

Then enjoy not experiencing many new things, because a whole lot of stuff coming out these days has themes or tropes that are seemingly "done to death." More than ever, what we consume for our hobbies (reading, gaming, whatever) isn't so much about what's completely new and unique, but how things we already know are made new and unique. New material is always great, but it's getting difficult to think of elements that haven't been done before :/ Not with the several generations of fantastic writers we've had from all over the world.

Some things, however...will always be scrutinized a bit more heavily, even with that new mindset. I still glower at anything that pulls the Alice in Wonderland shtick >.< That's getting bad.

yeah... it's unfortunate, but it's hard to do anything related to vampires these days and not have it automatically associated with twilight

it'll probably be a long time before any actual vampire stories start happening again

I remember back in the late 80s to late 90s there as a surge of vampire stuff, too. Interview with the Vampire sorta exploded the vampire phenomenon then, and we saw the popularity of Buffy, Angel, Blade, Underworld, even Queen of the Damned. Castlevania came back huge around then, too, with Symphony of the Night.

I think zombies have it worse than what Twilight did to vampires though...zombies are burnt out between movies, games, and now their popularity in media. Twilight just made vampires seem dumb for a time >.<

 

[Kam]

I think zombies have it worse than what Twilight did to vampires though...zombies are burnt out between movies, games, and now their popularity in media. Twilight just made vampires seem dumb for a time >_<

zombies are actually a pretty versatile plot device, because the zombies themselves are actually secondary to more important elements of the plot. Zombie movies end up being more about the nature of humans after a societal breakdown, and all the human drama that happens in these crazy situations. Think back to any really good zombie movie/show/book, and then consider how much the zombies are the central focus of the action, compared to how much the focus is on the humans and how they adapt to these situations.

zombie games, on the other hand, are basically grand theft auto games where you don't have to feel bad about mowing down every pedestrian in sight (except for left 4 dead. Left 4 dead is FPS "gauntlet" for the new generations)

personally, I feel like zombie movies and games could save a lot of time if they just skipped the zombies and went straight for lord of the flies, because in the end that's what ends up being really interesting. When a zombie is shambling around or some sap is getting eaten, that's not terribly interesting. But when the average joe with the biggest gun turns an old hubcap into a crown, kills the guy with the second biggest gun, and declares himself king of the survivor camp, that is what's interesting

 

[Furious D]

Then enjoy not experiencing many new things, because a whole lot of stuff coming out these days has themes or tropes that are seemingly "done to death."

I think it was just a beef with that particular premise, not a dislike of the use of tropes in general.

BTW, what's the "Alice in Wonderland" shtick? I'm familiar with the story, but what part of it do you mean?

 

[Kam]

I think it was just a beef with that particular premise, not a dislike of the use of tropes in general.

BTW, what's the "Alice in Wonderland" shtick? I'm familiar with the story, but what part of it do you mean?

alice in wonderland? I don't remember making a reference to that, you sure it was me?

 

[Furious D]

personally, I feel like zombie movies and games could save a lot of time if they just skipped the zombies and went straight for lord of the flies, because in the end that's what ends up being really interesting. When a zombie is shambling around or some sap is getting eaten, that's not terribly interesting. But when the average joe with the biggest gun turns an old hubcap into a crown, kills the guy with the second biggest gun, and declares himself king of the survivor camp, that is what's interesting

Have you played the Fallout series or I Am Alive? Those might be up your ally, and most of those games are pretty cheap. You might want to look into the upcoming The Last Of Us, too.

 

[Furious D]

alice in wonderland? I don't remember making a reference to that, you sure it was me?

I was quoting TWOxACROSS, there. Sorry for the mixup.

 

[Kam]

Have you played the Fallout series or I Am Alive? Those might be up your ally, and most of those games are pretty cheap. You might want to look into the upcoming The Last Of Us, too.

not yet, but I'll give those a look, thanks! I'm on the lookout for as many good games as I can find before school starts and my gaming shrinks back to one hour every saturday (if I have that much time)

 

[TWOxACROSS]

zombies are actually a pretty versatile plot device, because the zombies themselves are actually secondary to more important elements of the plot. Zombie movies end up being more about the nature of humans after a societal breakdown, and all the human drama that happens in these crazy situations. Think back to any really good zombie movie/show/book, and then consider how much the zombies are the central focus of the action, compared to how much the focus is on the humans and how they adapt to these situations.

zombie games, on the other hand, are basically grand theft auto games where you don't have to feel bad about mowing down every pedestrian in sight (except for left 4 dead. Left 4 dead is FPS "gauntlet" for the new generations)

personally, I feel like zombie movies and games could save a lot of time if they just skipped the zombies and went straight for lord of the flies, because in the end that's what ends up being really interesting. When a zombie is shambling around or some sap is getting eaten, that's not terribly interesting. But when the average joe with the biggest gun turns an old hubcap into a crown, kills the guy with the second biggest gun, and declares himself king of the survivor camp, that is what's interesting

Well yeah. The Walking Dead is the best example of recent material to handle them well. Unfortunately, it's gotten to the point where zombies are just a great way to do some violence, instead of the stress they represent to the greater societal structure. I seriously cringe when stupid kids just ask about something having zombies. Zombies are like the new Nazis >.<

 

[Furious D]

Well yeah. The Walking Dead is the best example of recent material to handle them well. Unfortunately, it's gotten to the point where zombies are just a great way to do some violence, instead of the stress they represent to the greater societal structure. I seriously cringe when stupid kids just ask about something having zombies. Zombies are like the new Nazis >_<

This might shed some light on the fascination with zombies in games:

 

[Kam]

This might shed some light on the fascination with zombies in games:

I actually don't watch much extra credits. I should, but portnow's a teacher here and he covers all this stuff in his design classes, as well as his design club, so I've never really felt the need to. Plus I'm studying to be a codemonkey anyway, not a designer, so design elements is just fluff knowledge for me

 

[TWOxACROSS]

BTW, what's the "Alice in Wonderland" shtick? I'm familiar with the story, but what part of it do you mean?

Mostly it's taking a cursory knowledge of Alice in Wonderland and just slapping its themes all over something. Like...all the talk about the DMC3 manga, it had that whole "Alice in Wonderland" theme to Dante's mission, and the references and themes really are just crammed in there. HEY IT'S A GIRL! LET'S NAME HER ALICE! OH OH! AND GIVE HER A WHITE RABBIT! AND WE'LL HAVE DEMONS LIKE THE MAD HATTER, DORMOUSE, AND MARCH HARE!

Just...guh. There's so many clever ways it could be pulled off, and nobody tries >.<

DMC4 did it rather well by making them small references that don't get crammed down your throat, but it's really just a personal beef. It can be interesting, but so often I roll my eyes because it seems like it's just seems like Alice in Wonderland is the go-to for trying and make something seem a bit more sophisticated by referencing classical literature, but without doing it in a sophisticated way :/

 

[Paexie]

I'm really excited to see how this plot is executed, too. Honestly, it's tough for me to think of the game, as it has been so far presented, as anything less than perfect in its own way (aside from the missed opportunity for the Demon Block). But that's just me approaching it with my biases and expectations as a long-time DMC fan who wants to see another respected developer's interpretation of the franchise.

It's tough to stay civil when you feel slighted, but I'm really glad that you tried. I just want to see everyone get along, here, after all the BS I've seen on Youtube and the like.

Yeah I get it.

Also interesting that Kam pinned us with Queen of the Dammed. This is what... 2 or third book in the series? idk The Vampire Chronicles are what basically solidified the genre for a modern take, so when you generalize it it's hard because we know the history behind this. It's also actually good with it's tropes which is basically kiss of the vampire.

So from what I can remember is that
The antagonist(s) are following their philosophies to a T because they are hella old and well that distorts their views on people and vampires that remember what these feelings are. All I remember is that Akasha wants to ride the world of men? Amazons do the same thing all the time, gurl.
It's angst ridden because wow no god and then it's all angst but woo party. Lemme write to you how detailed this carpet is.
I remember they liked to touch stuff because haha, everything is sex to them except they can't have actual intercourse.
They are all bad guys really, but to some it's cool because "they feel bad about it" or kill "people that deserve it".

I guess I never liked the books because of how "descriptive" heavy they are, it takes me out of it even if it's a justified happening. Lestat is super unlikeable too. Dante is a virgin saint compared to that guy.

But here is the bare bones of it, actually you can see the marrow and it's confusing because this is not an origin story of any kind not to mention Lestat was an anti-villain before this:

"Ancient evil wants to ride the world of... evil so that it would become the perfect world be worshiped as a god again; another bad guy... ok, an anti-hero takes her place." idk

 

[Furious D]

Mostly it's taking a cursory knowledge of Alice in Wonderland and just slapping its themes all over something. Like...all the talk about the DMC3 manga, it had that whole "Alice in Wonderland" theme to Dante's mission, and the references and themes really are just crammed in there. HEY IT'S A GIRL! LET'S NAME HER ALICE! OH OH! AND GIVE HER A WHITE RABBIT! AND WE'LL HAVE DEMONS LIKE THE MAD HATTER, DORMOUSE, AND MARCH HARE!

Just...guh. There's so many clever ways it could be pulled off, and nobody tries >_<

DMC4 did it rather well by making them small references that don't get crammed down your throat, but it's really just a personal beef. It can be interesting, but so often I roll my eyes because it seems like it's just seems like Alice in Wonderland is the go-to for trying and make something seem a bit more sophisticated by referencing classical literature, but without doing it in a sophisticated way :/

Did DMC4 reference Alice in Wonderland? I didn't even notice.

 

[Paexie]

I didn't put words in anybody's mouth. I pointed at words that already existed, made a statement that basically said "I strongly disagree with anyone who believes this" and you were the first person to respond to me. I didn't put those words in your mouth, you did it yourself, and not only did you do this yourself, you were among the first to do so.

Maybe you should worry less about "not holding punches" and more about accepting responsibility for your own mistakes, first.

so make it stop hurting. explain to me why you already know this plot is so deep and well constructed, and do a better job of it than just bolding the word NOPE over and over. But if all you're going to do is go "oh god he hurts me guys help guys guys" then tell me now so I can move on and do other things with my night

There is where you did it. I can't give you harder evidence than that. I never said that not even ONCE. And then you try and make a fool out of yourself by being offended by a silly face palm joke.

Maybe you should worry less about me and take your replies ON A PUBLIC FORUM to account that they will be judged by others. Just sayin'

 

[TWOxACROSS]

Did DMC4 reference Alice in Wonderland? I didn't even notice.

Because they did it well. Most of Nero's stuff was named after things from poker, and also Alice. Oddly enough, those also fit together because of the card soldiers in Alice

 

[Kam]

Did DMC4 reference Alice in Wonderland? I didn't even notice.

it's more direct references. Nero's sword is called the red queen, and his gun is called the blue rose. You could also make an argument for nero chasing dante into a rabbit hole of incredible weirdness

 

[Kam]

There is where you did it. I can't give you harder evidence than that. I never said that not even ONCE. And then you try and make a fool out of yourself by being offended by a silly face palm joke.

Maybe you should worry less about me and take your replies ON A PUBLIC FORUM to account that they will be judged by others. Just sayin'

edit - actually, you know what? arguing such a pointless topic is not worth the trouble. Think what you want. Good night, anon

 

[Furious D]

Because they did it well. Most of Nero's stuff was named after things from poker, and also Alice. Oddly enough, those also fit together because of the card soldiers in Alice

it's more direct references. Nero's sword is called the red queen, and his gun is called the blue rose. You could also make an argument for nero chasing dante into a rabbit hole of incredible weirdness

And Dante's hair... is the White Rabbit!! It all makes sense now!

The rabbit hole is a pretty widespread symbol. I think Campbell called it the "threshold," which the hero steps through, into the world of adventure and the unknown.

 

[Kam]

And Dante's hair... is the White Rabbit!! It all makes sense now!

The rabbit hole is a pretty widespread symbol. I think Campbell called it the "threshold," which the hero steps through, into the world of adventure and the unknown.

sometimes I wonder what the plot of DMC4 would have been like if it hadn't been absurdly rushed and they were forced to cut the game in half. I mean, they did a good job concealing the fact that they lost like an entire year of dev time, but then I started noticing weird things...

in DMC3, you kill an enemy named beowulf, you get a weapon named beowulf. Kill nevan, get nevan, cerberus gets you cerberus. So on and so forth. Makes perfect sense! But then DMC4, killing bael gives you pandora? echidna gives you gilgamesh? berial gives you lucifer?

Dante was originally intended to go through an entirely different section of the game unique to himself, battling through hell instead of running around backtracking nero's steps. If this original story had held, nero might not have been chasing dante at all, so I have to wonder what that metaphorical rabbit for him to chase would have been?

 

[Paexie]

What the hell are you talking about????????? I can follow a thread without replying to it.

I'm sorry, but none of us have seen the whole story unfold. So let's hold our judgement of the story until we actually see it.
Jeez, this is just as bad as the people that hate twilight without actually reading it to find out why it's bad in the first place.

I made this statement before you went ahead claiming that you thought I held the game's current info as great and unique.
And btw I first replied with that you where out of the loop on things and that you where unbased. Then you started to explain and then I replied with the above in which you started with the whole "you think the plot is so deep" to my words.

Seriously, what the hell. It's not a private message. It's open for everyone to reply to.

EDIT: wow, what a fallacy you've constructed for yourself.