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DmC "Deserved Better"

@DragonMaster2010
Hehehe, it's awesome to see the way you've changed bro, catch the high five. I'm glad you decided to stick around despite your past problems with the fan base.

berto said:
but to me they are the low points of the series.
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Agreed but...

berto said:
It's like DMC4 got a pass because people saw the alternative and said 'we were wrong, it can get worse.'
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I don't think that's entirely true. I mean yeah, some people revaluated DMC4... for the love of God, even DMC2 when they saw DmC, but at the same time, despite that, I don't see many "DMC4 deserved better" articles around.
 
@DragonMaster2010 Yes thank you, I've been saying that for I don't even know how long. But everyone shows their biased and are quick to ignore any flaws "their side" exhibits.

Anyway, with no disrespect, but I don't see how you can make a thread like this and not expect it to start something.

This is more of the same ol same ol "Oh it's the fanbases' fault" and honestly it's fu@#ing ridiculous.

I wont deny that some of the fanbase took it too far. But is it really people's fault for not wanting to buy/play/or support a game they had no interest in?

The people who use that argument, imo they belong to the same group who accuse people who like DmC of not being true Devil May Cry fans. What's the group called?....The Dumb@$$ Squad

You wanna talk about the people who blindly hate the game? Fine, but what about the flip side?

What about the DmC fans who completely ignore any actual constructive criticism for why someone doesn't like DmC, and are quick to just scream "Hater!"

EDIT: And another thing, how was DMC a failing series? The series had 4 games, and the worse (DMC2) was more mixed received then negative.

And they all sold well, heck the last game (DMC4) was and still is the best selling game of the series....DMC was never failing
 
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absolitude said:
it's the best selling in the series, how much more deserved can it get?
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Talking about fans' hate, not sales.

AgentRedgrave said:
But it is it really people's fault for not wanting to buy/play/or support a game they had no interest in?
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I once read a post from @Director Bison saying that everyone says it's legit and natural not to buy a game you're not interested in (which, you know, it is), and when that's what people do, they get yelled at for doing so. I couldn't agree more.

AgentRedgrave said:
You wanna talk about the people who blindly hate the game? Fine, but what about the flip side?

What about the DmC fans who completely ignore any actual constructive criticism for why someone doesn't like DmC, and are quick to just scream "Hater!"
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See, this is what I meant when I said this thread is redundant. When were that point and DmC victimsm discussed last time? In the Defend It thread.
 
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Foxtrot94 said:
@DragonMaster2010
Hehehe, it's awesome to see the way you've changed bro, catch the high five.
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As an opinion piece, I think the article was fair in its argument. He even admits that the PR was weak on both NT and Capcom's part.

Hmm, it is sad that he is immediately attacked for his opinion in the comment section. "How much did you get paid to write this?" Really? :meh:
 
Blackquill said:
As an opinion piece, I think the article was fair in its argument. He even admits that the PR was weak on both NT and Capcom's part.

Hmm, it is sad that he is immediately attacked for his opinion in the comment section. "How much did you get paid to write this?" Really? :meh:
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Well that's true too, and again, goes along with what I and DragonMaster said, there's some pretty immature people on both sides of the argument.
 
In my opinion DmC did fine and whilst I'm not a particularly big fan of it (initially I thought it'd be great but slowly I liked it less and less) I think that it deserves the fans that it does have who recognise the intelligence of its design. It don't think it 'deserves better' as what is better than having dedicated, happy fans playing it?

As a side note I agree with Berto that DmC's fan reception will make Capcom think they can get away with more than they should.
 
TWOxACROSS said:
I check my deviantART once in a great while, and I'm following some collection communities, like one for Devil May Cry. Most recently there was a slapdash "comparison" graphic between 4!Dante and m!Dante; the content could only be described as some of the most biased garbage I've seen regarding the subject in a long time, where it praises 4!Dante in the most ass-kissing of ways, and vilifies m!Dante with derogatory homosexual terms and the like. It is Twenty-Goddamn-Sixteen!

My point? Many complain about how DmC fans "can't let go" and constantly drudge up the past, but I see just as much (if not more) "haters" who fit the bill. People want to post some artwork of DmC, there's people around to talk trash; people want to play DmC, there are those who will assuredly be around to spew vitriol; and in this case, someone in 2016 made just the shoddiest tripe this side of Sonic OCs because they can't let go. People want to say that DmC fans can't let go, but gee-golly-whiz kids, look at all the fart-cravers who still have a chip on their shoulder. Not just for the game, but for Ninja Theory and Capcom, still feeling as though they somehow spent three years and massive amounts of money insulting them.

Not gonna lie, after seeing that comparison graphic on deviantART and I realized what year it is, I'm beginning to think more than a few people have some mental problems. Take of that what you will.
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Donald Trump is the leading front runner in the Republican party and on his way to winning the nomination, yes there are a **** load of mentally ill people in this country.
 
I'm not going to argue about all of the points surrounding DmC because it's been done to death already. There's only one way of looking at it - some like it, and some don't. After all of this time it is pretty much irrelevant who does and who doesn't. But to address the point of if it 'deserved' better, I think that question in itself is kind of stupid. I mean, you can ask that question for pretty much anything. Yeah, DmC might've deserved a bit better, but it did all that it could - under the circumstances, and overall, I wouldn't say it failed in what it set out to achieve. The only thing that matters is letting those who do enjoy it carry on enjoying it, and leaving those that don't alone in peace.
 
I will wholeheartedly agree that DmC deserved better. A lot surrounding the consumer-side of the game's pre-release was atrocious; angry fans consistently misconstruing what devs were saying to throw gas on the rage fire; spreading unsubstantiated rumors that made the game sound bad along with flat out ignoring the contradicting facts stated straight by the devs; insulting the developers and their families for just doing their job; blindly hating something for the shallowest of reasons; demanding "fixes" for things simply because they didn't work the way they thought it should; and of course, my favorite, thinking that two companies spent three years and more money than most will ever see intentionally insulting fans. You're damn right it deserved better.

Now, this is not at all to say there is not legitimate criticism, because there can always be some - I have plenty myself of how it could have been a "better" version of what it is, from story to gameplay. The problem is that they were either lost in a sea of vitriol or warped well out of proportion to fit with reasons for why the game should be outright reviled.

At least a game should come in under the radar with little to no fanfare, at most amidst a cacophony of marketing and consumer hype, but DmC, to come out to a resounding chorus of vitriolic bratty dissension with virtually no legitimate reason beyond "It's not what I wanted," is extremely uncalled for, and shows a level of juvenility reserved for elementary school playgrounds.

In effect, "DmC deserved better" isn't exactly a talking point about the game, it's turning a mirror on how abhorrent the fanbase had become. What I "can't let go" of is how far the portions of the Devil May Cry community have fallen. I was there since 2001, and in 2010 onward I watched it eat itself as it went down in flames. Melodramatics aside :cool:, people seriously need to grow up.
 
It's hard to say, obviously we feel it deserves a better treatment than it's gotten, because we love it so much. To the higher ups, it's all business. It could be worse though, DMC could have gone the route of Mega Man, or Capcom could have turned into Konami. Silver linings, guys.
 
absolitude said:
you know what guys, the way i see it, devil may cry as a series deserved better especially from the company
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Truest statement on this thread. Even the best games of this franchise have suffered from Capcom's abysmally-poor business and creative decisions....decisions, I've noticed, many fans continue to ignore. It's easy to blame scapegoats like Kobayashi or Antoniades for how some of these games end up turning out, but many people tend to forget the lengths Capcom as a publisher will go to sink its manipulative tendrils on a product.

Oh, what's that? DMC2 can't be made yet, because the original team is still working on the first game? Don't worry---get a completely new team to work on it without prior experience on working on a type of game still new to the industry. The shoe-horning of the Diesel Brand---that'll sell the game. Oh, fans didn't like how silent and placid Dante was in DMC2? Let's overcompensate by literally turning the character into the Japanese equivalent of Deadpool on acid, and dedicate every second he has on-screen to bludgeoning the player to death about how much nonsensical anime crap he can do, and how many one-note, personality-killing moments we can cram in.

Oh, what's that? DMC4 might need a budget extension so more cutscenes could be made? Well, let's see...we COULD just tell Kobayashi to tone it down with the mo-cap costs and amount of cutscenes, and put the remainder of the budget into more levels---but that would mean more commitment to creativity, and by extension, more work! The fans won't care about running through the same levels again---not as long as each level is wallpapered in overproduced cutscenes and anime nonsense! After all, that's what sold the last game...not the GAMEPLAY, or anything. Wait, WHAT? What do you mean DMC4 didn't make its budget back in sales? Clearly WE aren't to blame---this is obviously a result of Western gamers not liking their action games too hard, or their games too Japanese. How's about we REBOOT the franchise instead of patching up the mistakes we've made to the franchise ourselves, and dump both the work and the pressure of living up to the standard set by previous games on a completely different studio? That way, whether or not the game succeeds or fails, we'll emerge blameless as a result!

I've literally never seen another Japanese game company operate at Capcom's bewildering level of incompetence:

SEGA can rush both in-house projects and 3rd-party games to obscenity, but at least attempt to analyze the problem and even apologize to fans, instead of blaming everyone but themselves. Square Enix might flat-out bar the input of the "Godless Western audience" altogether, but at least THEY let their smaller dev studios like Crystal Dynamics and Eidos Montreal operate without breathing down their necks like a haggard sex predator. Even Konami, as oblivious to modern business practices that they are (a status they upheld quite well with Hideo Kojima as Vice President of the company), they, at least, took sound decisions when preserving a lot of their more valued franchises like Castlevania and Silent Hill, when reviving them for modern consoles and trusting outside developers like MercurySteam and Vatra Games, without mismanaging the budgets and manipulating the final product like leering ingrates.

Capcom has done each and every possible think to exploit their own properties, mismanage game budgets, shut out the voice of the consumer, and being a abhorrent pest to the studios they hire to work on games. They will unapologetically defend their own shady business practices, even when a game they ship is literally found to be half-finished. And they will blame partner studios, the Western gaming climate, their own development teams, or sometimes even THE FANS THEMSELVES before ever considering leveling some of the blame on themselves.
 
TWOxACROSS said:
It's hard to say, obviously we feel it deserves a better treatment than it's gotten, because we love it so much. To the higher ups, it's all business. It could be worse though, DMC could have gone the route of Mega Man, or Capcom could have turned into Konami. Silver linings, guys.
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And that I think is the key. I think DmC is just okay, but I'd rather have an okay reboot in the form of DmC rather than DMC4 be the last game in the franchise before it disappears into a blackhole never to be seen again.
 
Ultimately DmC seemed an odd entree in the franchise. As reboots go it was the most drastic I ever saw. As an inividual game I don't think I've ever seen one with so much fan participation, from the hate to the incorporation of fan mods to the Definitive Edition. Looking back at it all one can really say is 'what was that?'

In the question of if it deserved better, I don't know, not as if it sold badly. It sold new IP numbers, which by contrast to DMC4 isn't that great, but I honestly think DMC4 owes it's success to DMC3 and not to it's own strengths. Critics, the ones that were fair and took into account all of it's flaws and strengths, would give the game 3s and 4s out 5 or 7s out of 10, which wasn't a bad score and it is a fair one. Is it a crap game, no, is it a great game, not that, either. It's a decent game, the kind that an average player would try once and walk away happy. What more could most people want?

Honestly? It seems to me like an ok game that did ok. Wanting it to have done better seems to me like a matter of personal preference. I think the biggest reason there will be no sequel is because NT doesn't want anymore headaches, those few years of development couldn't have been easy on them, provably took a good toll on their confidence.
 
berto said:
Ultimately DmC seemed an odd entree in the franchise. As reboots go it was the most drastic I ever saw. As an inividual game I don't think I've ever seen one with so much fan participation, from the hate to the incorporation of fan mods to the Definitive Edition. Looking back at it all one can really say is 'what was that?'

In the question of if it deserved better, I don't know, not as if it sold badly. It sold new IP numbers, which by contrast to DMC4 isn't that great, but I honestly think DMC4 owes it's success to DMC3 and not to it's own strengths. Critics, the ones that were fair and took into account all of it's flaws and strengths, would give the game 3s and 4s out 5 or 7s out of 10, which wasn't a bad score and it is a fair one. Is it a crap game, no, is it a great game, not that, either. It's a decent game, the kind that an average player would try once and walk away happy. What more could most people want?

Honestly? It seems to me like an ok game that did ok. Wanting it to have done better seems to me like a matter of personal preference. I think the biggest reason there will be no sequel is because NT doesn't want anymore headaches, those few years of development couldn't have been easy on them, provably took a good toll on their confidence.
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DmC was made for the right reason but for the wrong people

they wanted to change things up, get more people into the series and make the combat more accessible
and i pretty sure the game succeeded at doing that (just not to the scale Capcom was hoping for)

unfortunately doing so required messing with a combat system and universe that is beloved by many

IMO DmC was doomed from the get go

the originals didn't have time to get stale
DMC 1 was great ,DMC 2 was oddly worse, DMC 3 was great, and DMC 4 had a great combat system but with not enough space to use it

fans wanted more of the original universe and combat, but got DmC instead
while DmC isn't bad by any means, it's not the DMC 5 people wanted or expected

it's like if someone is likes chocolate ice cream and they go to the store but there is only strawberry ice cream
where the chocolate should be
maybe some people will like the strawberry , maybe some people hate strawberry
but most people will go "WHAT THE HELL were's the chocolate"

whether or not someone likes DMC or DmC depends on there tastes
the people that a cheesy anime game appealed to
were given a edgy western game and that didn't appeal to most of them so they didn't buy it

it's as simple as that

as for the fan reaction well that's just how the internet is
people get over emotional when things they don't like happen
and in a fandom the negative emotions usually over power the positive ones whenever such drastic changes happens

and Reboots are almost always meet with negativity
 
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