Nobody.
Not one person at Capcom Headquarters has ever gone on record saying that the new Vergil had to be completely identical to the classic one, and that's good enough for me.
You and me both, buddy.
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DmC Definitive Edition for PS4 & Xbox One
- Thread starter Loopy
- Start date
Not one person at Capcom Headquarters has ever gone on record saying that the new Vergil had to be completely identical to the classic one, and that's good enough for me.
Yesh. I wanted to like him as he can be great, but in execution Itsuno totally drops the ball and fails at crafting a compelling character. It's so poorly done. He's a fan favorite built for the most part around headcanon and that says something.
Topic: And I'm not trying to start a flame war. I'm just talking about the game. Some of you here I know just hate the game and will definitely not agree no matter how much I put it in perspective as to why I feel that way. Opinions mean nothing to me unless you back it up with something. If your essay long responses will be just your hatred for he reboot in an attempt to say I'm wrong along with your own fanfictions, then that opinion doesn't hold much merit to me and I don't even want to get dragged in to this song and dance again.
I love both versions of the series and step back simply giving credit where credit is due on both fronts recognizing the strengths and faults. After all, I love this franchise. So, that's my story and I'm sticking to it. Vergil in DmC is definitely more of a dynamic character than his original counterpart which just becomes a trite one dimensional stoic, polar opposite, evil twin stereotype which is a dime a dozen.
At his core, the new Vergil is still Vergil. Compared to the rough and brash Dante he is more regal, calm, collected, and sophisticated. He also clearly holds his supernatural heritage to a higher regard over humans and craves power. That is Vergil at heart.
These characters are not virtually identical (as that was the intention of the reboot), but they are still in spirit and at their core those characters from the original. I can recognize that as a long time Devil May Cry fan. I've said it before and I'll say it again, DmC is like Marvel's Ultimate series and DMC is Earth 616.
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Theres just one problem. Everything you've just written is your own idea of the character. We can't make assumptions about a character with ideas that are not presented in the actual story.
For example where you said Vergil is more powerful than Dante. Well no he's not. Dante defeated him at the end of DMC3 very clearly, quite possibily when Vergil was at an advantage with the Force Edge and Yamato. Yet Dante still beat him. Then you have how Dante defeated him as Nelo Angelo.
Where are you getting any of this information from? How do you know Vergil arranged himself being killed by Dante so he could manipulate himself into being Mundus's pawn. That in itself sounds too farfetched to believe.
The top part dosen't really make sense either. The original Vergil died with Eva when Dante was very young (DMC1). DMC3 rebooted the timeline to reestablish Vergil as the central antagonist for that game. The point of DMC4 was to leave those characters behind (Dante and Vergil) to make Nero the new main character of the series. Theres no reason to believe Capcom had any intention to use Vergil again after DMC3. The character has died two or three times now.
Its not a threat if the same character who's been killed by Dante twice comes back to do what? Get killed again.
That was my biggest problem with DmC's ending. In that last fight, Vergil should have defeated Dante and Kat should have stabbed him in the back. Or Vergil should have gone into hiding from the guilt of nearly killing Dante. Hence Vergil's Downfall.
In the previous series of games Dante always defeated Vergil, in this timeline of DmC, Dante should always lose to Vergil. That would have created a better suspense filled ending for me at least.
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I would've preferred this ending.
Kat asks Vergil to spare Dante's life, then Vergil goes into hiding out of guilt, then loses his guilt and humanity after purposely going to hell to seek more power.
That would've been much better. I wish Ninja Theory did that instead!
Yes, but it wouldn't fit the narrative of the power fantasy that the game is portraying.
I'd like to spend my 2 cents on this matter.
Yeah, some of the things about classic Vergil are indeed made by fans based on certain phrases or hints given by the game, but the game itself does provide something about Vergil's character, even though in a subtle way, sometimes.
So let's have a look at it, shall we?
Oh, this post contains spoilers, so if some of you hasn't played DMC3 yet, like you @sssensational, don't read it.
So, the game kicks off Vergil's presentation by showing him at the top of Temen Ni Gru, where he is with Arkham. This cutscene basically serves as a means to tell us that Vergil is the total opposite of Dante, he's cold-tempered, he's collected, and he's a man of few words. He likes to go straight to the point and in fact he roughly interrupts Arkham monologue, which it's clearly shown that it's not to his liking. Just look at his expression:
"That's none of my concern."
This further highlights his direct nature.
Also, this sequence has the purpose to show us that he's Dante's opposite even in sword fighting. In fact, while Dante likes to have fun and screw around when fighting, as shown in his prologue cutscene, he doesn't give a damn about that and prefer to make the fight as short as possible. In fact, this looks more like an execution than a fight. It's his style.
-----
Later, when Dante reaches the top of the tower, we are shown that while he's a lot more calm and collected than Dante, he still possesses some degree of sense of humor, as he keeps up with Dante's joke about the party before they fight.
"My sincerest apology, brother. I was so eager to see you, I couldn't concentrate on the preparation for the bash."
After the boss battle, there's that famous line about might and strength.
"Foolishness, Dante. Foolishness. Might controls everything. And without strength, you cannot protect anything. Let alone yourself."
Now this is the very phrase lots of fans speculated upon. But letting aside those assumptions, from this line we can draw the fact that he values power and stength above everything else, and has no respect for weaklings. Hence why he mocks Dante, telling him that he's not strong enough to protect himself.
Also, when he says "foolishness" (and this is something that most fans seem to miss) he refers to what Dante said previously in response to Vergil's question "Why do you refuse to gain power? The power of our father Sparda?", namely that he "doesn't have a father". That highlights the fact that Vergil wants to resemble his father, which evidently he admires and is an obsession that drove him mad.
-----
Then, the scene when he kills Arkham.
What does this scene tell us about him?
Well, first of all, that he apparently disdains human emotions. In fact, look at what he says:
Pesky fatherly love.
This clearly shows us that he considers human emotions such as fatherly love an obstacle to whatever goal one might have. Emotions are something to avoid. Something that grants failure ("No wonder your attainment of power is incomplete."). And failure is not something he can afford. So...
"To further your study of the black arts you sacrificed your loving wife. To become a devil as well. So I thought you could be more useful to me. But I was wrong."
This line makes us understand how he felt himself akin to Arkham when he "hired" him as a guide in the tower. He saw in Arkham someone with the same ideals as his, and therefore, someone worth... getting along with, maybe? LOL no. Someone worth using.
That's another character trait we see: he his a loner and a manipulative person. The only reason why he would stay with someone at his side is because that someone is useful, and nothing else.
But when Arkham loses worthness to his eyes, he's just a dead weight.
Also, another subtle detail in this scene highlights another thing about him: he DOES NOT LIKE being reminded he's half human. When Arkham mentions it ("You're an incomplete being as well. Both demon and human blood migle in your veins."), look at the change in his facial expression:
He's p!ssed. It's the last straw. And in fact, it's after that line by Arkham that Vergil finally ends his life (or so he thought). So, he has little tolerance for that topic, and it seems to be the one very thing capable of breaking his cold armor, and make anger emerge. Anger, a human emotion. The irony.
-----
Further in the game, we get to fight Arkham. During the battle, Vergil shows up to fight him alongside Dante, and this introduces another aspect of his character and his relationship with Dante.
He decides to set aside their struggle and differences to face the common enemy. He's willing to fight alongside his brother.
But remember what said earlier. He uses people, does not get along with them.
Dante is his brother, yes, but despite this, and his "friendly" attitude towards him in this particular situations (he jokes with him again),
to him Dante is still a means to beat Arkham and retrieve the power he feels is rightfully his.
"I've come to retrieve my power. You can't handle it."
In fact, as soon as Arkham is defeated, he doesn't lose time and goes straight after his half of the amulet and Force Edge.
However, as the fight progresses, he does show that his brotherly feelings towards Dante are kind of emerging, to the point of breaking his rule not to use guns and "try Dante's way for once", as he says, and delivering the final blow pronouncing the word they used to say as kids: Jackpot.
-----
And we finally get to the grand finale. The final showdown.
At the beginning, we can notice a particular: Vergil initially seeks a peaceful way to end the confrontation. In fact, first and foremost, he just asks Dante to give him his half of the amulet, in a calm tone.
Only when Dante (obviously) refuses, he gets ready for the fight (one hell of a fight, btw).
And once again, he falls victim of anger when Dante tells him that he's never gonna be like Sparda, highlighting how proud Vergil is.
And when Dante shows him his determination to stop him, as he's driven by his soul, Vergil just sprouts in laughter, as we already said how he keeps human emotions in low regard.
But the laughter quickly vanishes and he's now more determined than ever. From this scene, his signature line:
In the end, he's defeated and he is surprised by that, highlighting how he overestimated himself.
After Dante delivers the final blow, his pride, which is a strong trait of his personality, is not down and as he refuses to abandon his half of the amulet to Dante.
However, he also finally shows that, despite everything, he actually does care for his brother, as he spurs Dante to leave, in order not to be stranded in the Netherworld.
And finally, his last act of pride is to stay in the Demon World, Sparda's former home.
"I'm staying. This place... was our father's home."
Now, I'd like to add that I do not hate Vergil's character in DmC. I used to, back when I first played the game, but not anymore. In fact, I appreciate A LOT the fact that Ninja Theory included some of classic Vergil's traits I explained here in their character, while still giving their own interpretation of him, to differentiate him from the original.
I hope this kind of arguments will cease and that we will all respect each other's opinions about characters (or anything else) without necessarily hating on them.
One can get his point across without devalue other people's thoughts.
And... sorry for any English error :/
Yeah, some of the things about classic Vergil are indeed made by fans based on certain phrases or hints given by the game, but the game itself does provide something about Vergil's character, even though in a subtle way, sometimes.
So let's have a look at it, shall we?
Oh, this post contains spoilers, so if some of you hasn't played DMC3 yet, like you @sssensational, don't read it.
So, the game kicks off Vergil's presentation by showing him at the top of Temen Ni Gru, where he is with Arkham. This cutscene basically serves as a means to tell us that Vergil is the total opposite of Dante, he's cold-tempered, he's collected, and he's a man of few words. He likes to go straight to the point and in fact he roughly interrupts Arkham monologue, which it's clearly shown that it's not to his liking. Just look at his expression:
"That's none of my concern."
This further highlights his direct nature.
Also, this sequence has the purpose to show us that he's Dante's opposite even in sword fighting. In fact, while Dante likes to have fun and screw around when fighting, as shown in his prologue cutscene, he doesn't give a damn about that and prefer to make the fight as short as possible. In fact, this looks more like an execution than a fight. It's his style.
-----
Later, when Dante reaches the top of the tower, we are shown that while he's a lot more calm and collected than Dante, he still possesses some degree of sense of humor, as he keeps up with Dante's joke about the party before they fight.
"My sincerest apology, brother. I was so eager to see you, I couldn't concentrate on the preparation for the bash."
After the boss battle, there's that famous line about might and strength.
"Foolishness, Dante. Foolishness. Might controls everything. And without strength, you cannot protect anything. Let alone yourself."
Now this is the very phrase lots of fans speculated upon. But letting aside those assumptions, from this line we can draw the fact that he values power and stength above everything else, and has no respect for weaklings. Hence why he mocks Dante, telling him that he's not strong enough to protect himself.
Also, when he says "foolishness" (and this is something that most fans seem to miss) he refers to what Dante said previously in response to Vergil's question "Why do you refuse to gain power? The power of our father Sparda?", namely that he "doesn't have a father". That highlights the fact that Vergil wants to resemble his father, which evidently he admires and is an obsession that drove him mad.
-----
Then, the scene when he kills Arkham.
What does this scene tell us about him?
Well, first of all, that he apparently disdains human emotions. In fact, look at what he says:
Pesky fatherly love.
This clearly shows us that he considers human emotions such as fatherly love an obstacle to whatever goal one might have. Emotions are something to avoid. Something that grants failure ("No wonder your attainment of power is incomplete."). And failure is not something he can afford. So...
"To further your study of the black arts you sacrificed your loving wife. To become a devil as well. So I thought you could be more useful to me. But I was wrong."
This line makes us understand how he felt himself akin to Arkham when he "hired" him as a guide in the tower. He saw in Arkham someone with the same ideals as his, and therefore, someone worth... getting along with, maybe? LOL no. Someone worth using.
That's another character trait we see: he his a loner and a manipulative person. The only reason why he would stay with someone at his side is because that someone is useful, and nothing else.
But when Arkham loses worthness to his eyes, he's just a dead weight.
Also, another subtle detail in this scene highlights another thing about him: he DOES NOT LIKE being reminded he's half human. When Arkham mentions it ("You're an incomplete being as well. Both demon and human blood migle in your veins."), look at the change in his facial expression:
He's p!ssed. It's the last straw. And in fact, it's after that line by Arkham that Vergil finally ends his life (or so he thought). So, he has little tolerance for that topic, and it seems to be the one very thing capable of breaking his cold armor, and make anger emerge. Anger, a human emotion. The irony.
-----
Further in the game, we get to fight Arkham. During the battle, Vergil shows up to fight him alongside Dante, and this introduces another aspect of his character and his relationship with Dante.
He decides to set aside their struggle and differences to face the common enemy. He's willing to fight alongside his brother.
But remember what said earlier. He uses people, does not get along with them.
Dante is his brother, yes, but despite this, and his "friendly" attitude towards him in this particular situations (he jokes with him again),
to him Dante is still a means to beat Arkham and retrieve the power he feels is rightfully his.
"I've come to retrieve my power. You can't handle it."
In fact, as soon as Arkham is defeated, he doesn't lose time and goes straight after his half of the amulet and Force Edge.
However, as the fight progresses, he does show that his brotherly feelings towards Dante are kind of emerging, to the point of breaking his rule not to use guns and "try Dante's way for once", as he says, and delivering the final blow pronouncing the word they used to say as kids: Jackpot.
-----
And we finally get to the grand finale. The final showdown.
At the beginning, we can notice a particular: Vergil initially seeks a peaceful way to end the confrontation. In fact, first and foremost, he just asks Dante to give him his half of the amulet, in a calm tone.
Only when Dante (obviously) refuses, he gets ready for the fight (one hell of a fight, btw).
And once again, he falls victim of anger when Dante tells him that he's never gonna be like Sparda, highlighting how proud Vergil is.
And when Dante shows him his determination to stop him, as he's driven by his soul, Vergil just sprouts in laughter, as we already said how he keeps human emotions in low regard.
But the laughter quickly vanishes and he's now more determined than ever. From this scene, his signature line:
In the end, he's defeated and he is surprised by that, highlighting how he overestimated himself.
After Dante delivers the final blow, his pride, which is a strong trait of his personality, is not down and as he refuses to abandon his half of the amulet to Dante.
However, he also finally shows that, despite everything, he actually does care for his brother, as he spurs Dante to leave, in order not to be stranded in the Netherworld.
And finally, his last act of pride is to stay in the Demon World, Sparda's former home.
"I'm staying. This place... was our father's home."
Now, I'd like to add that I do not hate Vergil's character in DmC. I used to, back when I first played the game, but not anymore. In fact, I appreciate A LOT the fact that Ninja Theory included some of classic Vergil's traits I explained here in their character, while still giving their own interpretation of him, to differentiate him from the original.
I hope this kind of arguments will cease and that we will all respect each other's opinions about characters (or anything else) without necessarily hating on them.
One can get his point across without devalue other people's thoughts.
And... sorry for any English error :/
@Foxtrot94 Well....someone has certainly taken the time to delve into an in-depth analysis. And honestly? All of those points seem legitmate.
No, seriously. Everything you pointed out actually mashes with Vergil's personality quite appropriately, and makes infinitely more sense than half the overzealous, outlandish fan-theories I've seen on this forum. Vergil views emotions and humane empathy as hindrances, and he holds nothing but spite for all things human.
I still don't know where these fan-made pipe dreams about Vergil avenging his mother come from.
No, seriously. Everything you pointed out actually mashes with Vergil's personality quite appropriately, and makes infinitely more sense than half the overzealous, outlandish fan-theories I've seen on this forum. Vergil views emotions and humane empathy as hindrances, and he holds nothing but spite for all things human.
I still don't know where these fan-made pipe dreams about Vergil avenging his mother come from.
Thank you man. That's also why I made those pictures, to try to be as clear as possible in pointing out what the game tells us about Vergil's character.
I just hope I didn't go too much off topic... cause that's what I feel like right now...
So you don't see how saying something like that, and then something like this:
Is in direct contradiction? I mean if you ask for an argument, dismissing them on the basis that they're giving an argument doesn't make much sense.
And I disagree. While NVergil captures OVergil's persona on a surface level, the two are practically nothing alike as characters. They play very, very different roles in the story.
The ratio of wins to losses with Dante and Vergil is actually equal. They meet three times throughout DMC3 and DMC1. In the first encounter he bests Dante, in the second there's no outright victor but Vergil/Nelo Angelo is left worse for the battle, and in the third he gains a big power boost but Dante eventually prevails.
It's a matter of presentation. In DMC3 Vergil is always portrayed as the ultimate challenge, superior to Dante right up until the end. In DMC1, Nelo Angelo is described as better than every other Demon Dante faces, honorable and upfront in a way none of the others are.
DmC Vergil is not once insinuated to be the better of the two, not as a combatant.
It really, really wasn't. Nero was set up as a deuteragonist to Dante, but the "secret" ending of the game clearly shows that Dante isn't out for the count in any capacity.
Also note that in the DMC3 prequel manga (In addition to getting pretty ****ed off when Dante insists that he threw in with the Demons that killed his mother) Vergil gives Dante back his half of the Perfect Amulet and spares his life for seemingly no reason. If he was truly honorless, and if he didn't care about Dante whatsoever, this would make no sense.I'd like to spend my 2 cents on this matter.
Yeah, some of the things about classic Vergil are indeed made by fans based on certain phrases or hints given by the game, but the game itself does provide something about Vergil's character, even though in a subtle way, sometimes.
So let's have a look at it, shall we?
Oh, this post contains spoilers, so if some of you hasn't played DMC3 yet, like you @sssensational, don't read it.
So, the game kicks off Vergil's presentation by showing him at the top of Temen Ni Gru, where he is with Arkham. This cutscene basically serves as a means to tell us that Vergil is the total opposite of Dante, he's cold-tempered, he's collected, and he's a man of few words. He likes to go straight to the point and in fact he roughly interrupts Arkham monologue, which it's clearly shown that it's not to his liking. Just look at his expression:
"That's none of my concern."
This further highlights his direct nature.
Also, this sequence has the purpose to show us that he's Dante's opposite even in sword fighting. In fact, while Dante likes to have fun and screw around when fighting, as shown in his prologue cutscene, he doesn't give a damn about that and prefer to make the fight as short as possible. In fact, this looks more like an execution than a fight. It's his style.
-----
Later, when Dante reaches the top of the tower, we are shown that while he's a lot more calm and collected than Dante, he still possesses some degree of sense of humor, as he keeps up with Dante's joke about the party before they fight.
"My sincerest apology, brother. I was so eager to see you, I couldn't concentrate on the preparation for the bash."
After the boss battle, there's that famous line about might and strength.
"Foolishness, Dante. Foolishness. Might controls everything. And without strength, you cannot protect anything. Let alone yourself."
Now this is the very phrase lots of fans speculated upon. But letting aside those assumptions, from this line we can draw the fact that he values power and stength above everything else, and has no respect for weaklings. Hence why he mocks Dante, telling him that he's not strong enough to protect himself.
Also, when he says "foolishness" (and this is something that most fans seem to miss) he refers to what Dante said previously in response to Vergil's question "Why do you refuse to gain power? The power of our father Sparda?", namely that he "doesn't have a father". That highlights the fact that Vergil wants to resemble his father, which evidently he admires and is an obsession that drove him mad.
-----
Then, the scene when he kills Arkham.
What does this scene tell us about him?
Well, first of all, that he apparently disdains human emotions. In fact, look at what he says:
Pesky fatherly love.
This clearly shows us that he considers human emotions such as fatherly love an obstacle to whatever goal one might have. Emotions are something to avoid. Something that grants failure ("No wonder your attainment of power is incomplete."). And failure is not something he can afford. So...
"To further your study of the black arts you sacrificed your loving wife. To become a devil as well. So I thought you could be more useful to me. But I was wrong."
This line makes us understand how he felt himself akin to Arkham when he "hired" him as a guide in the tower. He saw in Arkham someone with the same ideals as his, and therefore, someone worth... getting along with, maybe? LOL no. Someone worth using.
That's another character trait we see: he his a loner and a manipulative person. The only reason why he would stay with someone at his side is because that someone is useful, and nothing else.
But when Arkham loses worthness to his eyes, he's just a dead weight.
Also, another subtle detail in this scene highlights another thing about him: he DOES NOT LIKE being reminded he's half human. When Arkham mentions it ("You're an incomplete being as well. Both demon and human blood migle in your veins."), look at the change in his facial expression:
He's p!ssed. It's the last straw. And in fact, it's after that line by Arkham that Vergil finally ends his life (or so he thought). So, he has little tolerance for that topic, and it seems to be the one very thing capable of breaking his cold armor, and make anger emerge. Anger, a human emotion. The irony.
-----
Further in the game, we get to fight Arkham. During the battle, Vergil shows up to fight him alongside Dante, and this introduces another aspect of his character and his relationship with Dante.
He decides to set aside their struggle and differences to face the common enemy. He's willing to fight alongside his brother.
But remember what said earlier. He uses people, does not get along with them.
Dante is his brother, yes, but despite this, and his "friendly" attitude towards him in this particular situations (he jokes with him again),
to him Dante is still a means to beat Arkham and retrieve the power he feels is rightfully his.
"I've come to retrieve my power. You can't handle it."
In fact, as soon as Arkham is defeated, he doesn't lose time and goes straight after his half of the amulet and Force Edge.
However, as the fight progresses, he does show that his brotherly feelings towards Dante are kind of emerging, to the point of breaking his rule not to use guns and "try Dante's way for once", as he says, and delivering the final blow pronouncing the word they used to say as kids: Jackpot.
-----
And we finally get to the grand finale. The final showdown.
At the beginning, we can notice a particular: Vergil initially seeks a peaceful way to end the confrontation. In fact, first and foremost, he just asks Dante to give him his half of the amulet, in a calm tone.
Only when Dante (obviously) refuses, he gets ready for the fight (one hell of a fight, btw).
And once again, he falls victim of anger when Dante tells him that he's never gonna be like Sparda, highlighting how proud Vergil is.
And when Dante shows him his determination to stop him, as he's driven by his soul, Vergil just sprouts in laughter, as we already said how he keeps human emotions in low regard.
But the laughter quickly vanishes and he's now more determined than ever. From this scene, his signature line:
In the end, he's defeated and he is surprised by that, highlighting how he overestimated himself.
After Dante delivers the final blow, his pride, which is a strong trait of his personality, is not down and as he refuses to abandon his half of the amulet to Dante.
However, he also finally shows that, despite everything, he actually does care for his brother, as he spurs Dante to leave, in order not to be stranded in the Netherworld.
And finally, his last act of pride is to stay in the Demon World, Sparda's former home.
"I'm staying. This place... was our father's home."
Now, I'd like to add that I do not hate Vergil's character in DmC. I used to, back when I first played the game, but not anymore. In fact, I appreciate A LOT the fact that Ninja Theory included some of classic Vergil's traits I explained here in their character, while still giving their own interpretation of him, to differentiate him from the original.
I hope this kind of arguments will cease and that we will all respect each other's opinions about characters (or anything else) without necessarily hating on them.
One can get his point across without devalue other people's thoughts.
And... sorry for any English error :/
But moreover, the manga shows an even more important scene for Vergil's character - A flashback to Vergil as a child, seemingly on the same night Eva was killed and his home burned to the ground. (If you take the anime into account, this was probably the same event referenced in episode 8.)
From here, they run through his entire gambit of emotions in that moment; Regret, fear, lamentation, hopelessness, anger, and resentment. Right then is when the Demons run him through with Yamato, at which point he awakens his Devil Trigger, kills them all, and presumably found that he was far too late to do anything about his family. (In terms of the present-day story, he awakens from this flashback and goes on to unseal a part of Temen-ni-gru.)
From all this, it's not hard to see why Vergil is the person he is. Overwhelmed and alone, the only thing that allowed him to survive was the blade given to him by his father and his Demonic blood. But even despite that, it wasn't anywhere near enough. Hence Vergil's obsession with power, and his insistence to the Demons in the manga that he's "not an insect".
You might wanna look up what the word "contradiction" means. Like I said, your opinions mean nothing to me unless you back it up with something that makes it valid.
Instead, I'm getting told my opinion is wrong because you're one of the people who utterly despise the reboot and will go against it on all fronts. See, I couldn't care less about your distaste for it. What bugs me is when the people praise it or talk about it, there's detractors who just act like the others don't know what they're talking about.
Instead, I'm getting told my opinion is wrong because you're one of the people who utterly despise the reboot and will go against it on all fronts. See, I couldn't care less about your distaste for it. What bugs me is when the people praise it or talk about it, there's detractors who just act like the others don't know what they're talking about.
You want evidence? How about everything Foxtrot posted, or everything from the manga I just linked?
And you know what they say about assumptions. What, I must despise DmC because my avatar has white hair, or I linked you some bad sales figures? Yeah right.
There's not much I particularly like about DmC, but neither is there much I particularly dislike about it either. Frankly it's just Vergil's character (First and foremost), certain specific things about the combat system and problems in the story, and overall how NT conducted themselves prior to release, though that's not even a detrimental point to the game itself.
You literally just described yourself when bringing up this topic about Vergil. I mean you outright said "The old version sucked, this one is way better, and I don't care what anyone else says about it. Now let's talk about that."
I mean, what did you expect? That nobody would disagree with you?
Can't we just dig the war axe now? Or in this case, the katana?
Otherwise, it's gonna go on forever...
Otherwise, it's gonna go on forever...
Whatever the case, in the previous series as you've said, Vergil/Nelo-Angelo is defeated by Dante in the deciding encounter. The character has been killed twice now. So I'm not sure how Capcom are going to create a threat from a character we know Dante will inevitabilly defeat. Hence why I disagreed with the ending of DmC. It gave us something we have seen before. A shock ending of Vergil nearly killing Dante would've been much better.
"It really, really wasn't. Nero was set up as a deuteragonist to Dante, but the "secret" ending of the game clearly shows that Dante isn't out for the count in any capacity."
Except the part where Capcom said that they had finished with Dante's story, hence why Nero was created to take over as the new main character as the series. Then you have the ending of DMC4 where Dante gives Nero Yamato. The scene is symbolic, its supposed to be Dante handing the torch to a new generation of DMC fans, for a new main character, Nero.
Hence why Dante, Lady and Trish had no development during DMC4. The characters and the story were done. It was supposed to be the start of something new with Nero and Kyrie. Those characters might have appeared as supporting characters, but DMC4 was the beginning of a new generation of DMC games featuring Nero and Kyrie. Capcom have their reasons for not continuing that straight away.
"DmC Vergil is not once insinuated to be the better of the two, not as a combatant."
True.
Anyone up for some friendly mission score competition? I created a thread for it.
Man, I was just told I was wrong by you people. Love Vergil all you want, ok? I don't care, but I explained why I think Vergil is a more dynamic character in the latest Devil May Cry over 3. He was one thing about the originals I never cared for. Yes I was being blunt, but you still know it's my opinion which I am providing context for. And others do agree with me and see what I'm saying. In DmC, most of your complaints are because he's different. Your fanfic speculations do not count here. He's really not all that different, but definitely has more of a personality on display here.
I like the fact Vergil isn't just a dickish stoic, evil twin stereotype he was in the originals. I like how he establishes a relationship with Dante. One that is introduced, and actual developed throughout. There is more emotional weight behind their split and them going at odds. He has a lot more going for him in the latest game than he ever did.
Seriously, a lot of how fans perceived Vergil is based primarily in their noodles. That's what a lot of people take away when it just isn't there. Now, yea it's all melodrama, but it's not the best written or best melodrama I've seen. Itsuno and them, are just not very good storytellers. This is Devil May Cry, not Oscar bait.
Of course, if you just think its amazing story telling then what else can I say to convince you otherwise. Just like what you like. But as a storyteller and writer, I won't pretend it did it well even though I love the series. I like the layers given to Vergil in the latest game. Vergil's Chronicles added more to this too as he is conflicted on certain things. I like a good villain that's more than just basically one dimensional.
Not saying the generic stuff can be bad, it's just generic.
Vergil was always the bad kind of generic to me because he's just not very interesting at all. His type of character was so trite and like a dime a dozen in anime which I am also a very avid fan of and what Devil May Cry was always inspired by as well as the Divine Comedy. So yea, I'll take Vergil and his OKCupid fedora over that silly looking pirate any day of the week.
I like the fact Vergil isn't just a dickish stoic, evil twin stereotype he was in the originals. I like how he establishes a relationship with Dante. One that is introduced, and actual developed throughout. There is more emotional weight behind their split and them going at odds. He has a lot more going for him in the latest game than he ever did.
Seriously, a lot of how fans perceived Vergil is based primarily in their noodles. That's what a lot of people take away when it just isn't there. Now, yea it's all melodrama, but it's not the best written or best melodrama I've seen. Itsuno and them, are just not very good storytellers. This is Devil May Cry, not Oscar bait.
Of course, if you just think its amazing story telling then what else can I say to convince you otherwise. Just like what you like. But as a storyteller and writer, I won't pretend it did it well even though I love the series. I like the layers given to Vergil in the latest game. Vergil's Chronicles added more to this too as he is conflicted on certain things. I like a good villain that's more than just basically one dimensional.
Not saying the generic stuff can be bad, it's just generic.
Vergil was always the bad kind of generic to me because he's just not very interesting at all. His type of character was so trite and like a dime a dozen in anime which I am also a very avid fan of and what Devil May Cry was always inspired by as well as the Divine Comedy. So yea, I'll take Vergil and his OKCupid fedora over that silly looking pirate any day of the week.
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Not sure about any of that. I thought you made some good points about Vergil, and I agree both versions, DMC3 and DmC Vergil have their mertis.
Its difficult to say this one is better than that one or vice versa. There different, their not supposed to exist in the same DMC game, and they woulnd't work that way. DMC3 Vergil woulnd't work in DmC's world and DmC's Vergil woulnd't work in DMC3's world. Their different interpretations of the character.
The important thing is that fans enjoy the interpretations of Vergil or Dante for whatever reason. Theres no reason to chose between the two. I don't see why fans can't enjoy both for different reasons. Thats how a reboot works to be honest.
Besides Vergil was never a problem in the previous games. It was Dante that needed a lot more substance.
@Chancey289 ya know, I disagree with some of the things you said (as well as agree with others), but you know what? Remember when you said that if they met, oDante and nDante would just go have a pizza? F*ck, let's do it. You like Naples pizza? It's a bomb!
@Judge high five bro. Peace.
@Judge high five bro. Peace.
In that case, it failed on multiple levels. It failed to make Vergil a credible threat (For a number of different reasons), and it failed to do anything new or innovative with the situation.
I definitely agree that they intended to push Nero in the narrative, but at the same time I seriously doubt that they were done with Dante's story. For one thing they hardly even had anything for him to really do in DMC4 due to time constraints, and for another I find it hard to take this ending as anything other than a teaser of more to come.
I can only guess that they intended more for Dante in the future, but had Nero prepped as the secondary protagonist in case it didn't really work out. Like a sort of fallback.
I agree.
"It's just my opinion, but here's how I'm going to ignore every argument you've made in favor of insisting I'm right on everything no matter what."
How about we back off for a second. You don't call old Vergil a generic, silly shallow pirate, and I won't call new Vergil a lame, unengaging and uninteresting failure of a character.
Yeah? Is that okay? Praise one all you want, but don't backhand the other out of spite? I'm going to try and run with that.
Also they removed his fedora in the Definitive Edition.