DmC Definitive Edition for PS4 & Xbox One

[Chancey289]

I could not possibly disagree with you any harder.

Of course.

I'm not derailing anything. We're talking about the latest Devil May Cry here.

You're not gonna convince anyone that Vergil in DMC 3 is anything but a generic, stoic, one dimensional polar opposite evil twin stereotype to Dante. Total missed opportunity to create a character study on someone who is implied to have severe post traumatic stress and other issues.

I like villains. Love me a good villain. Vergil in dmc 3 was never a great character or villain.

 

[Elijah Guerrero]

Slightly off-topic because I just noticed it (may have even been mentioned before)...

Kat is totally elbowing Dante in the gut for putting his hand on her butt.

looks more like she's nut-tapping him moreso than elbowing him.

 

[WolfOD64]

Of course.

I'm not derailing anything. We're talking about the latest Devil May Cry here.

You're not gonna convince anyone that Vergil in DMC 3 is anything but a generic, stoic, one dimensional polar opposite evil twin stereotype to Dante.

What makes Vergil's character all the more grating is if you actually watched anime throughout the 90's, and were subjected to the plethora of evil twin brothers that plagued literally EVERY by-the-numbers bishonen, only to play DMC3 and find it waiting for you in that narrative train-wreck that passes off as a plot.

I like Vergil's style, look, and voice...he has the makings of a cool villain, in concept. In actuality? I couldn't tell you anything about his character, or his motivation as a villain. That's right...DMC3 had over an hour of tiresome cutscenes, and we were still never told what Vergil's motivation is.

 

[DanteSparda08]

Of course.

I'm not derailing anything. We're talking about the latest Devil May Cry here.

You're not gonna convince anyone that Vergil in DMC 3 is anything but a generic, stoic, one dimensional polar opposite evil twin stereotype to Dante. Total missed opportunity to create a character study on someone who is implied to have severe post traumatic stress and other issues.

I like villains. Love me a good villain. Vergil in dmc 3 was never a great character or villain.

There was more to Vergil in DMC 3 than what people were made to believe...I can tell you one thing for certain so open your ears and pay attention.

"Vergil was one broken man divided between power and family and wanting to do what was right, but feared failing to do what was necessary! And being the elder twin put a lot of pressure on him to play his part even if it meant acting and being two faced, or a hypocrite and a hypocrite Vergil isn't that's for sure. He's a man of his word and does what he says he will, and being brought up by Demons after the murder of his mother made him grow up quite fast and had to put a cold face so others knew he meant business. And by the looks of it Vergil wasn't having sh*t from no-one, neither human nor demon. Dante was more important to him and Vergil had to push him and force him to get meaner, and more powerful and managed to do so in their meeting above the Tower of Babel... otherwise known as Temeni'gru.

One thing that this Vergil did well was act with conviction and showed everyone who he was and didn't care much for what others thought about him, and though Dante tried to push him and make him see sense, and though he managed to do so, but in his own way he never truly hated Dante...if anything he loved Dante that he was willing to put everything down so that even if he lost and died, that making Dante stronger only would make his revenge more victorious by ending Mundus life and avenging their family, even if it meant being played as a toy soldier.

Vergil in DMC 3 was more honorable than you can imagine and more character driven than the one in DmC, because he showed conviction in his actions and anti-hero he may be...but the true victor in the end wasn't Dante but it was him playing the game of chess with Mundus, allowing himself to be a pawn realising that he was the true King...he was more powerful than Dante because he mastered his Devil form much younger, and was more skilled with a sword to the point where he can create bubbles of energy that collapse into themselves whilst slicing enemies in half.

For goodness sakes he managed to materialize phantom swords a feat that Dante could only dream off...Vergil is a genius for coming up with that, and to parry Dante's bullets with his Katana and fling them back to him like he was toying with Dante, like he was saying "Here take your little toys with you" just makes him seem so much more epic."

 

[Veloran]

Of course.

I'm not derailing anything. We're talking about the latest Devil May Cry here.

You're not gonna convince anyone that Vergil in DMC 3 is anything but a generic, stoic, one dimensional polar opposite evil twin stereotype to Dante. Total missed opportunity to create a character study on someone who is implied to have severe post traumatic stress and other issues.

I like villains. Love me a good villain. Vergil in dmc 3 was never a great character or villain.

Vergil in DmC is, by FAR, the worst thing about that game. I have never seen a character be so utterly destroyed on so many levels. Dante gets the most flack because of the differences in appearance and personality, but at least deep down both versions of the character are inherently the same person. With Vergil through, NT completely missed the point in every regard.

The entirety of original Vergil's character was based around wanting more power because he wasn't strong enough to protect his mother. He blamed his own Humanity for this weakness, and latched onto the legacy left behind by his Demonic father Sparda - Who surely wouldn't have allowed something so horrible to occur - to ensure that he would never again be left so helpless. That's why he was so hell-bent on obtaining the Force Edge, and in the end he was so focused on living up to his dad that he fearlessly charged the Prince of Darkness in his own domain.

This is also why he's so honorable, refusing to use guns, embracing the style and trappings of a warrior, and sparing Dante's life multiple times. He's trying to follow Sparda's example, live up to him as the firstborn son and inherit his mantel, in his own twisted way.

Apparently however, Ninja Theory didn't care enough to notice any of this.

DmC Vergil is nothing more than an unhinged sociopath with inferiority issues to Dante. He has no honor, no code, no obligation to his family. He tries to play everyone, the Order, Kat, his own brother, and just assumes that they'll go along with his plans to subjugate the Humans and rule the world. He's willing to do absolutely anything to get his way, no matter how underhanded or beneath him it is.

The absolute worst of it comes in Vergil's Downfall. Within the DLC, it's revealed that he doesn't give a damn about his family. Upon meeting Eva (Or her apparition anyway) for the first time in over a decade, after believing her to be dead, what does he do?

Vergil destroys her. He tells his mother that he killed his brother, out of mere jealousy no less. He practically admits to being a murderer to her face, turns and leaves her a broken mess, without even batting an eye. He then goes on to wholly and completely become a monster, leading the Demonic hordes.

DmC Vergil is all but a one-dimensional, irredeemable villain. But as if that wasn't enough, his dynamic with Dante was also ruined.

See, in DMC3, Dante and Vergil are brothers. Vergil the older, Dante the younger. Throughout the whole game, Vergil is portrayed as being superior to Dante in every regard. Despite this, he allows Dante to live after their first encounters, and as the story progresses the two argue about their respective motivations. In the end, after much hardship, Dante finally overcomes Vergil, but despite their differences still tries to save him as he throws himself deeper into the Demonic realm that their father once called home.

In DmC though, the two might as well be strangers. There's no tension, no history, they were induced into amnesia and broken up at a very young age. They have no history, implied or otherwise. Here, Vergil plays the "brains" of the operation, and insists that he needs Dante's help to have any chance of beating Mundus. While Dante fights, Vergil either stays on the sidelines or hacks. Even during the final boss fight, Dante has to save him from Mundus multiple times. They even pound it home it in the DLC - Vergil is inferior to Dante.

So how am I supposed to look at him as the final boss with any measure of respect, or even fear? The dynamic between the two ensures that his battle is completely lacking in anxiety or pressure. Moreover, Dante is fully prepared to kill Vergil, but is only held back by Kat at the last second. He has no remorse, pity, nothing. It's terrible.

DmC's Vergil is a worse, less complex character in every way when compared to the original, full stop.

 

[DragonMaster2010]

Vergil in DmC is, by FAR, the worst thing about that game. I have never seen a character be so utterly destroyed on so many levels. Dante gets the most flack because of the differences in appearance and personality, but at least deep down both versions of the character are inherently the same person. With Vergil through, NT completely missed the point in every regard.

The entirety of original Vergil's character was based around wanting more power because he wasn't strong enough to protect his mother. He blamed his own Humanity for this weakness, and latched onto the legacy left behind by his Demonic father Sparda - Who surely wouldn't have allowed something so horrible to occur - to ensure that he would never again be left so helpless. That's why he was so hell-bent on obtaining the Force Edge, and in the end he was so focused on living up to his dad that he fearlessly charged the Prince of Darkness in his own domain.

This is also why he's so honorable, refusing to use guns, embracing the style and trappings of a warrior, and sparing Dante's life multiple times. He's trying to follow Sparda's example, live up to him as the firstborn son and inherit his mantel, in his own twisted way.

Apparently however, Ninja Theory didn't care enough to notice any of this.

DmC Vergil is nothing more than an unhinged sociopath with inferiority issues to Dante. He has no honor, no code, no obligation to his family. He tries to play everyone, the Order, Kat, his own brother, and just assumes that they'll go along with his plans to subjugate the Humans and rule the world. He's willing to do absolutely anything to get his way, no matter how underhanded or beneath him it is.

The absolute worst of it comes in Vergil's Downfall. Within the DLC, it's revealed that he doesn't give a damn about his family. Upon meeting Eva (Or her apparition anyway) for the first time in over a decade, after believing her to be dead, what does he do?

Vergil destroys her. He tells his mother that he killed his brother, out of mere jealousy no less. He practically admits to being a murderer to her face, turns and leaves her a broken mess, without even batting an eye. He then goes on to wholly and completely become a monster, leading the Demonic hordes.

DmC Vergil is all but a one-dimensional, irredeemable villain. But as if that wasn't enough, his dynamic with Dante was also ruined.

See, in DMC3, Dante and Vergil are brothers. Vergil the older, Dante the younger. Throughout the whole game, Vergil is portrayed as being superior to Dante in every regard. Despite this, he allows Dante to live after their first encounters, and as the story progresses the two argue about their respective motivations. In the end, after much hardship, Dante finally overcomes Vergil, but despite their differences still tries to save him as he throws himself deeper into the Demonic realm that their father once called home.

In DmC though, the two might as well be strangers. There's no tension, no history, they were induced into amnesia and broken up at a very young age. They have no history, implied or otherwise. Here, Vergil plays the "brains" of the operation, and insists that he needs Dante's help to have any chance of beating Mundus. While Dante fights, Vergil either stays on the sidelines or hacks. Even during the final boss fight, Dante has to save him from Mundus multiple times. They even pound it home it in the DLC - Vergil is inferior to Dante.

So how am I supposed to look at him as the final boss with any measure of respect, or even fear? The dynamic between the two ensures that his battle is completely lacking in anxiety or pressure. Moreover, Dante is fully prepared to kill Vergil, but is only held back by Kat at the last second. He has no remorse, pity, nothing. It's terrible.

DmC's Vergil is a worse, less complex character in every way when compared to the original, full stop.

If we're gonna do another "which version of [insert DMC/DmC character here] has the biggest dick " contest again, then I might as well leave now.
It's called an opinion dude. Get with it.

 

[TerrorA]

Vergil in DmC is, by FAR, the worst thing about that game. I have never seen a character be so utterly destroyed on so many levels. Dante gets the most flack because of the differences in appearance and personality, but at least deep down both versions of the character are inherently the same person. With Vergil through, NT completely missed the point in every regard.

The entirety of original Vergil's character was based around wanting more power because he wasn't strong enough to protect his mother. He blamed his own Humanity for this weakness, and latched onto the legacy left behind by his Demonic father Sparda - Who surely wouldn't have allowed something so horrible to occur - to ensure that he would never again be left so helpless. That's why he was so hell-bent on obtaining the Force Edge, and in the end he was so focused on living up to his dad that he fearlessly charged the Prince of Darkness in his own domain.

This is also why he's so honorable, refusing to use guns, embracing the style and trappings of a warrior, and sparing Dante's life multiple times. He's trying to follow Sparda's example, live up to him as the firstborn son and inherit his mantel, in his own twisted way.

Apparently however, Ninja Theory didn't care enough to notice any of this.

DmC Vergil is nothing more than an unhinged sociopath with inferiority issues to Dante. He has no honor, no code, no obligation to his family. He tries to play everyone, the Order, Kat, his own brother, and just assumes that they'll go along with his plans to subjugate the Humans and rule the world. He's willing to do absolutely anything to get his way, no matter how underhanded or beneath him it is.

The absolute worst of it comes in Vergil's Downfall. Within the DLC, it's revealed that he doesn't give a damn about his family. Upon meeting Eva (Or her apparition anyway) for the first time in over a decade, after believing her to be dead, what does he do?

Vergil destroys her. He tells his mother that he killed his brother, out of mere jealousy no less. He practically admits to being a murderer to her face, turns and leaves her a broken mess, without even batting an eye. He then goes on to wholly and completely become a monster, leading the Demonic hordes.

DmC Vergil is all but a one-dimensional, irredeemable villain. But as if that wasn't enough, his dynamic with Dante was also ruined.

See, in DMC3, Dante and Vergil are brothers. Vergil the older, Dante the younger. Throughout the whole game, Vergil is portrayed as being superior to Dante in every regard. Despite this, he allows Dante to live after their first encounters, and as the story progresses the two argue about their respective motivations. In the end, after much hardship, Dante finally overcomes Vergil, but despite their differences still tries to save him as he throws himself deeper into the Demonic realm that their father once called home.

In DmC though, the two might as well be strangers. There's no tension, no history, they were induced into amnesia and broken up at a very young age. They have no history, implied or otherwise. Here, Vergil plays the "brains" of the operation, and insists that he needs Dante's help to have any chance of beating Mundus. While Dante fights, Vergil either stays on the sidelines or hacks. Even during the final boss fight, Dante has to save him from Mundus multiple times. They even pound it home it in the DLC - Vergil is inferior to Dante.

So how am I supposed to look at him as the final boss with any measure of respect, or even fear? The dynamic between the two ensures that his battle is completely lacking in anxiety or pressure. Moreover, Dante is fully prepared to kill Vergil, but is only held back by Kat at the last second. He has no remorse, pity, nothing. It's terrible.

DmC's Vergil is a worse, less complex character in every way when compared to the original, full stop.

Honorable? Oh (cracks knuckles)

Vergil may have paid lip service to being honorable, but he had no problem attempting Fratricide, letting millions of humans die to get a sword, attempting to off Lady, killing a blind opponent, stabbing a downed opponent or desecrating a dead body.

He was just as sociopathic as new Vergil, but people actually buy his talk of being honorable.

Actions determine character, not words

 

[TerrorA]

In conclusion, Vergil's more Yakuza than samurai, and new Vergil is basically a mafia don as well.

Once again, deep down the same petty character who cares more about power than people

 

[Demi-fiend]

Actions determine character, not words.

What is this "character" you speak of?

 

[WolfOD64]

All these implications and no solid proof.

Capcom must love its fans. When they can't come up with creative writing material, their fans will just dream up theories for how their characters work.

 

[Demi-fiend]

When they can't come up with creative writing material, their fans will just dream up theories for how their characters work.

Yeah, I'm sorry, but I'm just gonna go ahead and say that this is how most of the actual Classic DMC lore works.

At least D0NN1E, the director of Downfall, actually joined the forum and explained to us what was going on.

 

[TerrorA]

All these implications and no solid proof.

Capcom must love its fans. When they can't come up with creative writing material, their fans will just dream up theories for how their characters work.

Wait, me? Because I was only going by what the game showed. Hence why I said he paid lip service to honor, but he acted otherwise

 

[Veloran]

If we're gonna do another "which version of [insert DMC/DmC character here] has the biggest dick " contest again, then I might as well leave now.
It's called an opinion dude. Get with it.

What a wonderful argument. Rolling your eyes.

You say, "Oh, it's an opinion, get over it."? Well the same to you. If someone want's to insist DmC Vergil's character is better, I have every right to argue the opposite.

Honorable? Oh (cracks knuckles)

Vergil may have paid lip service to being honorable, but he had no problem attempting Fratricide, letting millions of humans die to get a sword, attempting to off Lady, killing a blind opponent, stabbing a downed opponent or desecrating a dead body.

He was just as sociopathic as new Vergil, but people actually buy his talk of being honorable.

Actions determine character, not words

What part of "twisted" did you miss? Regardless of the setting, Vergil is a messed-up person. But at the very least, original Vergil has a method and reasoning to his madness.

He doesn't care about Humans. He doesn't care about Lady (Who, you might note, he spared without a thought in the library). He definitely doesn't care about the Demon Beowulf, who outright insulted his father. And as for Dante, did you never once wonder why Vergil would stab him with Rebellion, bathing it with his blood and unlocking his Devil Trigger?

Basically, Vergil has no qualms about pushing aside anyone who gets in his way. But unlike NVergil, and as so often expressed within DMC3, his motivations are strong.

All these implications and no solid proof.

Capcom must love its fans. When they can't come up with creative writing material, their fans will just dream up theories for how their characters work.

Frankly, that's just how the Devil May Cry (And a lot of eastern storytelling in general) plot works. Either every single thing is explained in excruciating detail, or the players/readers are simply given hints to work off of and make inferences from.

That kind of thing is the reason why so many people go crazy over Dark Souls. It's a very western setting, but described and realized in a very eastern way.

 

[Demi-fiend]

Wait, me?

No, not you. The other guys.

 

[Elijah Guerrero]

*Munching on popcorn as flame war goes on*

 

[DragonMaster2010]

What a wonderful argument. Rolling your eyes.

You say, "Oh, it's an opinion, get over it."? Well the same to you. If someone want's to insist DmC Vergil's character is better, I have every right to argue the opposite.

No, you're going on a wide opinionated rant, trying to argue the opposite of another opinion.
I'm just sick of seeing these kinds of comparisons over and over again.

 

[scionicspectre]

Characters are who they are. 'Better' means completely different things to different people. I think it would be better to describe what characteristics you find likable or disagreeable about a character, regardless of how ignoble they seem. At that point, we can simply disagree on our preferences.

Of course, whether a character's realization is as intended is another story. I would argue that both versions of Vergil are well realized versions of those characters with fairly consistent motivations and pronounced emotional underpinnings.

Whether a character was built to appeal to a certain audience and win their trust is yet another argument, but it should be noted that plenty of unpleasant and dirty characters were meant by the creator to give you that response, and are therefore 'good' in that they accomplish their purpose. I think DmC's Vergil is a character that is meant to make you suspicious and keep you from fully connecting with him, as he is ultimately a villain. The original canon's Vergil is a very different character who is arguably more noble and less vicious. You may like him better as a person, but that doesn't make DmC's Vergil worse as a character.

 

[Veloran]

No, you're going on a wide opinionated rant, trying to argue the opposite of another opinion.
I'm just sick of seeing these kinds of comparisons over and over again.

Then you may want to direct that same sentiment towards Chancey.

I mean starting a conversation with "X is SO much better and more interesting than Y, whatever anyone says", is certainly a very opinionated thing to do.

Characters are who they are. 'Better' means completely different things to different people. I think it would be better to describe what characteristics you find likable or disagreeable about a character, regardless of how ignoble they seem. At that point, we can simply disagree on our preferences.

Of course, whether a character's realization is as intended is another story. I would argue that both versions of Vergil are well realized versions of those characters with fairly consistent motivations and pronounced emotional underpinnings.

Whether a character was built to appeal to a certain audience and win their trust is yet another argument, but it should be noted that plenty of unpleasant and dirty characters were meant by the creator to give you that response, and are therefore 'good' in that they accomplish their purpose. I think DmC's Vergil is a character that is meant to make you suspicious and keep you from fully connecting with him, as he is ultimately a villain. The original canon's Vergil is a very different character who is arguably more noble and less vicious. You may like him better as a person, but that doesn't make DmC's Vergil worse as a character.

That's fair enough. It's certainly very much up to personal preference. For my own part I most definitely prefer original Vergil, and wildly dislike NVergil's character, but I suppose that doesn't necessarily make it bad. Just different.

Though I still maintain the point about his character's dynamics lessening his impact as a final boss. That's not so great either way.

 

[Foxtrot94]

Speaking of climatic boss battles, does any of you guys think that they wasted a HUGE opportunity of having a Dante/Vergil team up fight during the Mundus battle, like in DMC3? Perhaps improving on the disappointing execution during the Arkham battle?

I think it would have been a lot better than having Vergil playing the damsel in distress waiting for Dante to save him the whole time.

 

[sssensational]

Uh oh, it's happening again...

What I'd just like to point out is that I do like Vergil in DmC. Maybe he's not the same as classic Vergil, but who says that they have to be identical character? The entire point of a reboot is to give a new twist to the franchise. So maybe you don't like reboot Vergil. That's fine, then spend your time thinking about classic Vergil.

I for one don't know much about classic Vergil but I still like thinking about him because I'm intrigued by what I have seen of him in DMC3.

I am a big fan of the psychological aspect of Vergil's Downfall and his descend into madness, his transformation as a villain, but that does not mean that I want to put him next to classic Vergil and call the two the same person. I look at them as two different persons, and that's that.