Stylish Nero
We Dem Boys!!
I like your signature.......do you draw all that by yourself?
DmC and DMC
- Thread starter DMCGamer1989
- Start date
I like your signature.......do you draw all that by yourself?
8BitHero
Scrub
I'm against any of that BS to be honest. I haven't heard NT say that "there are differences between Western/Eastern story telling" but the sooner BOTH SIDES stop saying that BS the better the reactions will be. Keiji Inafune considered the Japanese gaming industry "finished". I love the dude but that's just dumb. I've NEVER considered the story to be a hint as to where the game was made/their level of story telling. Resident Evil could be considered "western" yet is made in Japan. For me personally, saying Animes like Naruto and Soul Eater is a minus. Modern Animes (apart from Death Note) are weak compared to the quality content pre-2000's(and no I'm not talking about Dragonball Z).
For DMCs I never really thought much of the stories because it's always about the combat. I always(well since DMC3) considered the DMC series to be a fighting game. You don't play fighting games for the story. You play it for the mechanics, fun, style, combos and showing off. The story is usually after thought. That's not to insult anyone who likes the story of those OR the writers of the DMC series. DMC4 DID have a straight forward story with better writing. Nero being one of the best additions to the entire series so I they tried there, but it being from Japan doesn't make it better.
I love NTs story because to me, they break the boundary of what's considered western. "Oh look at western games, they're all shoot the brown dude", yet NT give you a story that's strong and revolves around the game without losing focus. The put a spin on the Monkey King series with Journey and created two memorable characters but also put an twist on the environment (An overgrown city), the same with DmC. They're at least doing(trying) creative writing.
Ocarina of Time wasn't anything amazing in terms of story. The odd twist with Sheik was interesting but "Evil force taking over the land and then the world > Save the princess" isn't really innovative and has been done since the beginning of story telling. I don't consider any part of the world to be better than the other. For every game you say Eastern is better because of "No More Heroes" I could easily say Western is just as good because of "Uncharted". There is no line between the two but the more people say there is, the worse the industry looks.
Ninja Theory AND Hideki Kamiya (Platinum Games) is WHAT this industry needs. They give us bloody insane games like Bayonetta which fun action. FUN! Ninja Theory gives us quality story telling. We need more of this, NOT to be pushing them away saying they suck(not that anyone here has)
mrrandomlulz
Monsuuuta moonssuta mo mo mo mo monsuuta
What I don't get is why Capcom needs this reboot and Resident Evil 6?
Wasn't the first Dead Rising a platinum hit in the West,? If Capcom wanted more Western Attention, why not just put ads for their other games in the Dead Rising franchise via easter eggs, like they WERE ALREADY DOING.
And Megaman and Resident Evil were already beloved worldwide, along with Phoenix Wright. And Devil May Cry's sales in the West weren't too shabby.
Wasn't the first Dead Rising a platinum hit in the West,? If Capcom wanted more Western Attention, why not just put ads for their other games in the Dead Rising franchise via easter eggs, like they WERE ALREADY DOING.
And Megaman and Resident Evil were already beloved worldwide, along with Phoenix Wright. And Devil May Cry's sales in the West weren't too shabby.
Paexie
Well-known Member
Seriously you guys, both sides have made amazing games some that have amazing stories within their gameplay mechanics. Saying that one is better than the other is like you haven't played enough of what's out there.
Honestly when people say that Tameem didn't like Bayonetta and take that to offense, you also forget that he actually said that it was a great game in the same paragraph....
Honestly when people say that Tameem didn't like Bayonetta and take that to offense, you also forget that he actually said that it was a great game in the same paragraph....
8BitHero
Scrub
No you're right. I HONESTLY don't understand why DMC needed a reboot. I'm with you on that. BUT, we haven't had a DMC in 5 YEARS(2008 and then 5 years(ish) once DmC comes out in Jan 2012). Is DmC a bad reboot? No. Is it a well made game? Yes but could've have been it's own individual game? Yes. But then it would be called a rip-off of DMC. (See what I'm getting at?)
Here's what I see about RE 6.
You cannot satisfy gamers today. It's a fact.
RE 1, 2, 3 : OMG CLASSIC
Capcom: Update time
RE 1, 2, 3 remake along with Outbreak and CVX: OMG Awesome!
Capcom: We need to progress forward. Instead of having the camera above you, why not take full control of where you aim?
RE 4: OMG the way forward I love. But, why can't we move?
Capcom: We'll add someone to help AND(!) get rid of the old "pause-inventory" system.
RE 5: OMG series is dead and still can't move
Capcom: We'll give you the ability to move and go back to atmosphere (Leon campaign)
RE 6: This sucks! Too much action, I can dodge enemies now so where's the threat?
Capcom: Banging head on desk
Now, if we lived in an alternate universe:
Every single Resident Evil game from 1-6: How long are you guys going to keep re-using that same old camera angle formula. We're in the year 2012, we still can't aim, we can't move when we aim. Lame!
How do I know gamers would be like that?
Call of Duty is prime example of smug anti-CoD gamers using that as point. "Eww go back to CoD. That game that uses the same formula on a year basis". And those are the types of comments I've heard from the Zelda fanbase.
RE6 is a good game, it had to progress.
Also Dead Rising was developed by Blue Castle games (Vancouver - Canada) BUT was Keiji Inafunes(Producer) game too...so I guess that's a mix?
Those games sell well because they're good, not because of where they come from. Also, Phoenix Wright didn't really sell that well but everything else you said was true. Platinum games are a perfect example of brilliant ideas that don't sell. Bayonetta, Mad World, Vanquish... :/
Stylish Nero
We Dem Boys!!
Though Enslaved from a story telling aspect was good as a game I ignored it. Even then they didn't write Enslaved Alex Garner or whatever his name is.
As for DmC, as I said I'm not impressed. A lot of their creative ideas have been done before and all they're doing is taking ideas from tons of other games and movies.....I mean literally I can make a list of stuff DmC took ideas from (outside DMC games) and it'll be three times as long as a same list for DMC AS A WHOLE.
As far as I'm concerned the characters in DmC aren't that memorable outside Dante & Vergil and its because they have the reputation from the old Dante and Vergil carrying on them. I have not much reason to care for Kat she can die and I wouldn't care, her character is another cliche in Western films. Mundus and Lilith, even as villains I don't care for them like I would Kefka (FFVI), Ares (GoW), or Liquid Ocelot (MGS).....as villains even Gibraheem or however the hell you spell it from Zelda Skyward Sword is a more interesting villain.....I mean REALLY control the world through DEBT.....an almighty, all powerful demon plans to control the world through DEBT......WTF!?!? Slowly killing off mankind through their own corrupted lifestyles for the sake of sh*ts and giggles makes more sense and is fitting for a villain of Mundus and Lilith status.
At least Phineas seems interesting. Despite being Western film cliche #278 "that Morgan Freeman character".
At least Poison and Barbas are decent villains but at the expense to being annoying as all hell (Poison) or a Jonah Jonas rip-off (Barbas).....although for some reason I like those type of characters.
Enslaved and Heavenly Sword were impressive I guess but DmC....it might as well be THIS "A Western Version of DMC".
8BitHero
Scrub
The way we are nowadays means being new and innovative is becoming harder and harder. You cannot create a game/form of medium that cannot be compared to. Underworld takes a lot from other films. Beastie Boy take a lot from other genres. TV Animes are generally the same as each other. But why do we like those(or those that do)? Because it comes down to how well you execute you ideas. DmC has taken a lot from other games. (God of War, Alice: Madness Returns, .....the series it's supposed to be based DMC itself) but why exactly is that bad? If you take a working formula like Zelda and use it to create a game like Darksiders and execute it well why is that a negative point?
As for the theme of the game, that's obviously debatable but it's a setting that we; in todays society, can relate to. It's based on what we have now with debt and power. But what if it was set within the DMC universe.
Capcom took the idea of Dante and Vergil from Dante Aligiheriss' A divine comedy and turned it into a game where Dante a metrosexual lead, one liners, guns and swords.
Visceral Games took the idea of Dante and Vergil from Dante Aligiheriss' A divine comedy and turned it into a game where Dante is looking for his love Beatrice from Lucifer...the Devil Himself (whereas in DMC4 Lucifer is a weapon) and Virgil narrates the story
Ninja Theory took the idea of Dante and Vergil from Dante Aligiheriss' A divine comedy and turned it into a game where Dante is the 99%(crapped on/outcast of society) but also fighting demons and a corrupting world.
Or the Monkey King series
Capcom took the idea of the Monkey King series and turned him into a her (Sonson) for an adventure game
Akira Toriyama took the idea of the Monkey King series and turned him into a ridonculously overpowered Saiyan
Ninja Theory took the idea of the Monkey King series and turned him into a more human like dude with an American accent.
We've been doing "it"(borrowing ideas) for years.
To say this is a western version of DMC is BS. I know you didn't say that, but NT really took a step back on their point and just added more segregation thinking to the gaming industry. Stupid choice of words there, NT.
meg5493
Praise the Sun!
The original was loosely based off Divine comedy like some of the characters and enemies just thought i mention it since you only mentioned NT and Visceral
Stylish Nero
We Dem Boys!!
To call DmC a western DMC is actually on-point. DMC took inspiration from Japanese anime and shows and was a basic Japanese action series with a stereotypical Japanese action hero and DmC took inspiration from tons of western show, movies, and even games and is in every type of word as Western as it can get. Even the story trailers feel like a trailer for an American movie than a game made by Capcom. However, DmC still has the core aspects of DMC (main character being a half demon devil hunter spawn of Sparda, his brother Vergil, Dante's personality/character is basically the same but in a different lens, and other stuff). However DmC still lacks that DMC flair that was rooted from its Japanese beginnings and replaced with well Western flair (no over the top, uncarcerated, Japanesy......whatever as stated by Tameem). Capcom themselves even asked NT add "Western appeal" to DmC and that they hired them for their Western appeal. As I can easily provide evidence from Capcom themselves DmC is a Western version of DMC.
As a game DmC looks beast but its story is in fact is holding it down because apparently we can't get 5 minutes without having to go through a story or cutscene and unless if your interested in the story that won't fly so well and if your trying to do multiple playthroughs or grind having to constantly deal with cutscenes and dialogue from a story you have no interest in IS poor game design. DMC and basically action games like it (Ninja Gaiden & Bayonetta) its supposed to be gameplay driven NOT story driven. Cause you can only enjoy a story once (maybe twice or three times if its that good) but gameplay can lasts a while (multiple playthroughs) and if the story ACTUALLY gets in the way from enjoying the game then Tameem you FAILED as a game designer......that counts to you Hideo Kojima....MGS4 may have had an amazing and powerful story but as a game.....it sucked....Yes I'm saying MGS4 as a game sucks.
8BitHero
Scrub
Yeah I agree. I don't think this game is COMPLETELY amazing despite standing up for it a lot but even I see the blatant flaws(proving I'm not fanboy to it). You make a good point about being an action game. For me the cutscenes don't bother and you can skip most of them but for those that want uninterrupted cutscenes I see that point also.
I don't agree with what Tameem or NT say sometimes as it comes off as stubborn. I can point out why we shouldn't be comparing it, be bothered about swearing, should see it from a different angle etc BUT, at the end of the day it's still a game with DMC in the title and we SHOULD have those core elements of the gameplay/mechanics. Whether Tameem likes it or not this is a DMC so we should have taunting, we should have hard lock-on, we should have faster gameplay, we should have 60FPS on consoles(just to name a few). I personally find the game to have far more pros than cons, though I do see your side and respect it.
I still find this western/appeal bullshi- pathetic. It adds nothing to the gaming industry but divide it. It also insults the Japanese developers. Capcom going out of eastern development to western and 'asking for a good western story is', is the same as saying that "we need western help since eastern cannot produce a good story". Nice one, Capcom. NT is a great developer though with a lot of creative ideas so DmC could've been A LOT worse. You can tell by the art design, shifting environments, ground-in-reality dialogue and themes, the stylish looks of moves and with awesome gameplay mechanics; like Kats "egg timer" being able to turn the way gravity works.
And yes I disagree with you about MGS4 sucking. I take it you like Rising Revengeance however?>: (
Stylish Nero
We Dem Boys!!
I partially like Rising but I liked it more as Metal Gear Solid: Rising then they gave it to Platinum (who aren't as great as people claim they granted I love Anarchy Reigns to all hell and would give an organ for that game and I do find Mad World......interesting because of the music and overall creativity but they're other games are "okay" by my definition), then they changed it from a prequel explaining how Raiden becomes a cyborg to alternate story that has zero to nothing to do with MGS (might as well be filler), and well the game looks very different from MGS:R and I really liked how MGS:R looked
and all Platinum did was change the format and add mechanics already used in their past games (Vanquish slide mechanic, Anarchy Reigns dizzy mechanic, and Bayonetta styled QTE sequences and cinematic finishers). I'm surprised that Rising didn't get Mad World's rap music too. Also made it more cinematic but I in fact liked MGS:R Metal Gear Solid feel now it feels like a Platinum Game's game and all people will remember it as a Platinum Game's game.
Insulting the Japanese developer....Inafune has done plenty of that. He was cool and all but now he comes off as more of a **** than the badass who made MegaMan.
Paexie
Well-known Member
Here it is. You know, it be cool if you could just add the link below your signature. Pixiv is very strict about their work and member protection and they are thinking of closing off their site from people outside Japan atm. So please, give credit where it's due and try not to edit/repost/or even use the work posted mainly on that site.
Stylish Nero
We Dem Boys!!
Ummm.....I was refereing to Ieyasu unless if you have something to do with his sig
Paexie
Well-known Member
I was replying the link (the red text links to the signature's artist) for you and the info for Ieyasu.
Stylish Nero
We Dem Boys!!
Heh thanks
Paexie
Well-known Member
No prob. You can actually use google to reverse search images, too. It really helps when you don't have the source of an image.
Sieghart
"Plough the lilies"
You know? That is actually what Inafune wants. He says that in japan, many people still believe that their game is the best and the western games are only decent or horrible BUT that is actually the opposite of what is happening right now. He even actually likes it how Phil Fish insulted japanese games(I forgot what site/article where i found that he said that) because japanese developers don't want to admit that they are losing the battle with the exception of Inaba and Saito from Platinum games.
So...he says that insulting japanese developers would probably open their eyes or something like that. There are actually Japanese games today which was Critically Acclaimed such as Dark Souls and Xenoblade but loses in terms of Sales.
Stylish Nero
We Dem Boys!!
I hate to side with them but Japanese developers are kind of losing in terms of sales and popularity....okay maybe not Nintendo but most other developers. I mean losing the shooter market is one thing but Western developers are up against Japanese developers on all corners now (hack n slash, RPG, puzzle, and even platformers). I mean the only market the Western developers aren't competing with the Japanese developers are fighting games cause the West is to yet come out with a decent fighting game....they have come close but Street Fighter, DoA, Tekken, and other Japanese fighters have already solidify and shaped the fighting market that is like a Japanese developer making a new shooter IP to compete with CoD or Halo.
The gaming industry is rough out there man.
Sieghart
"Plough the lilies"
Yeah, the western games have blown japanese games in many main genres such as RPG. Even Final Fantasy can't beat the Elder scrolls series now really. Even western MMOs such as World of Warcraft or Guild Wars have blown Korean MMOs out of the water now so it's not just about the japanese games anymore, it's about the Eastern gaming now in my opinion.
I would be more surprise if the Japanese developers would get a way to compete with Westerns in FPS but i don't really see that happening. Although i mostly agree with Inafune, i disagree with him that the Japanese gaming industry is finished. Yes, it's declining but i won't get that far to say "Finished".