• Welcome to the Devil May Cry Community Forum!

    We're a group of fans who are passionate about the Devil May Cry series and video gaming.

    Register Log in

could they have handled things better?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Director Bison

King of Games
Premium Elite
Premium
if DmC were a new IP then people who didn't like the look just wouldn't have got it right?
or at least there would be vastly less negativity toward it

but this is a devil may cry game
and it's radically different from what the originals are

true that was the point of DmC it's supposed to be different

but IMO they could have easily made things better for everyone

simple make DmC a spin off in the same universe as the originals
i don't think theirs much in DmC that couldn't happen in DMC
maybe Limbo city is just cut off from the rest of the world

change this Dante, Vergil, Eva, Sparda and Mundus's names
and maybe don't make this Dante and Vergil twins

less of a need to compare these characters to the originals
different gameplay for different characters
and in another DMC game this Dante could team up with the old Dante and there personality's could clash leading to some funny moments

everyone gets what they want i'd think

that's my view on things at least
maybe it still wouldn't work
people still hated Nero cus they just want to play as Dante

what do you guys think
do i have a point
or would fans have the same negative reaction regardless
 

Foxtrot94

Elite Hunter
Premium
Eeeeeeeeeehhhhhhhhhhhh... no, it wouldn't have worked, regardless of what fans might have thought.
 

Director Bison

King of Games
Premium Elite
Premium
well i'm just saying if things were handled differently
fans of new and old DMC could be happy

but now i think the thing that's most likely to happen is DmC is probably just going to get ditched for original DMC
and the DmC fans are probably going to be out of luck

i know i'm being a little idealistic with this i'm just saying what if
 

DragonMaster2010

Don't Let the Fall of America be Your Fall
People would've still compared it to DMC because it was something that was being made in Capcom's name instead of a DMC5. Plus, it was another Hack n Slash game and obviously people were going to compare them just like they compare DMC and Bayonetta. Fans aren't THAT blind to see that if DmC was a whole other game, it would be obvious that this was a possible replacement from DMC.
All this negative PR started with the fanbase raging, and that's an obvious thing. Of course Capcom and Ninja Theory handled it wrong, but that doesn't mean the fandom has clean hands.
 

V's patron

be loyal to what matters
I think the game itself might have sold a bit more but I'm not really sure how the critic reaction might have differed.

Fan reaction is tricky but I imagine it still being there just not as bad. Sure, fans would find something to complain about (its true of humans in general) but it may be less intense/more generic than what DmC started. Back then it started fan wars or discussions on the nature of reboots or how far companies are allowed to go etc which would have not happened if it was just a new IP (atleast to me).

Even if gameplay elements in this new IP do share similarities with DMC i dont really see how that would single it out for ridicule since Darksiders is in the same boat (people even described it as DMC x Zelda). Plus if they cut the cord, they might have done more drastic things to the gamplay which might give it more legs to stand on.
 

Lain

Earthbound Immortal
Premium
if DmC were a new IP then people who didn't like the look just wouldn't have got it right?
You know the exact same thing could have been said about DmC right? If people didn't like it then they simply didn't have to buy it or even pay attention to it. But instead we ended up with a constant back and forth between fans that ultimately got us nowhere.
 

absolitude

the devil is not as black as he painted
i like the idea it being a spin-off in the same universe, meaning there are other demon slayers in the dmc universe, plus they added angels, and ndante a nvergil (with a different name) are the sons of another well known demon too, maybe sparda's far far far cousin's neighbour (if we keep them as another twin that is).. or skip that twin scenario

but if it carries devil may cry name, it wouldn't make any difference, well maybe less hostile but they would still want dante and the bunch.. and the same gameplay will probably subjected as well..

but i'm loving the idea..
 

WolfOD64

That Guy Who Hates Fox McCloud
They could have advertised in the West much, much, much better.

This was the trailer for the West:

And this was the trailer used in Japan.

Now, you tell me, which one showcases the game in a better fashion, because as far as I'm concerned, the Japanese trailer was far superior.
 

Foxtrot94

Elite Hunter
Premium
Yeah, advertisement was definitely a factor, but what doomed this game in fans' eyes is its very nature of reboot.

Fans didn't expect it, and definitely didn't want it. It was unnecessary and one of the prime examples of Capcom's bad business decisions that will be remembered for ages.

So maybe, and that's a BIG maybe, since no one can know what could have happened, it could have worked as a spinoff with the cast being their own standalone characters. Who knows.
 

WolfOD64

That Guy Who Hates Fox McCloud
Yeah, advertisement was definitely a factor, but what doomed this game in fans' eyes is its very nature of reboot.

Fans didn't expect it, and definitely didn't want it. It was unnecessary and one of the prime examples of Capcom's bad business decisions that will be remembered for ages.
Well, I believe the subject at hand is not so much should the decision behind the reboot have been better handled (because God knows the incentive to reboot the series was lazy, stupid, and uncreative on Capcom's part), but rather how the reboot itself could be better handled as a game.
 

Innsmouth

Sleeping DMC Fan
Supporter 2014
Nature of reboot, Capcom's marketing and NT's boss being jerk buried DmC much more effective than any amount of "haterSSS"
 

AgentRedgrave

Legendary Devil Hunter
The game would always have been compared. But I do think if they had changed the character's names and had it simply been a spin-off game, it would have been better received.
My initial disdain for the game when it was announced came from the mere fact it was a reboot, and I didn't think the series needed one. I mean the series only had 4 games, of which the worst of the bunch (DMC2) was more mediocre then terrible (My opinion), and at the time of DmC's announcement, had been around for less then a decade.
Furthermore, the last game (DMC4) had just introduced a new protagonist (Nero), and left a TON of questions to be answered. But instead of answering those questions, they were like "Nah, we're just gonna start over from scratch".
But if the game had been a spin-off set in the world of DMC. The most comparison it would have gotten I think would have been along the lines of people comparing Red Dead Redemption to Grand Theft Auto. Just two games by the same company (DmC is still a Capcom game) with similar mechanics
 

Foxtrot94

Elite Hunter
Premium
He wasn't being a jerk. Fans were acting like little bitches, and he treated them as bitches rather than cower behind false pretenses and fallacious sincerity. Three cheers for that guy.

Truly unprofessional though. You don't wanna act like that when business is involved.

Ninja Theory might wanna thank him too, for sure. Thanks to him, their reputation certainly improved.
 

Enigma

Crimson Sentinel
It's not because of its nature as a reboot that it was received negatively by the fans. Some (not many, but still some) people actually wanted a reboot, and I was one of them. I wanted them to go back to a DMC1 kind of style, with gameplay on the level of DMC3, and maybe have them make the dialogues and story a bit deeper. But I was also very interested in just getting a completely new take on Devil May Cry. But what we got... I just disliked because it was so edgy, stupid, and shallow as well. It was mainly received so negatively because it was, in many respects, worse than previous DMC games and didn't keep enough of the original games' atmosphere, style, character types, etc. It's not because it was a reboot that it failed -- it was because it discarded almost everything that was part of the identity of Devil May Cry. Reboots don't have to throw the baby out with the bath water.

When it comes to the gameplay, I'd say it wasn't even as good as DMC4 (except for the backtracking DMC4 had of course). Many people had issues with the jump canceling IIRC, the platforming pretty much sucked, even Bayonetta did it better, and it served mostly as padding for the empty levels.
It had only about half the amount of combos DMC4 had, and also quite a bit less than DMC3 had, and many of the attacks had awkward pauses between them that kind of disrupted the flow of combat IMO. Many of the weapons served essentially the same function as other weapons, and some of them were overpowered while others were underpowered. Adding to the shallowness of the gameplay was the removal of the styles and the lock-on function. You being forced to use certain weapons (and therefore combos) on certain enemies... color-coded nonsense too.

The game's story was childish, mirroring the Illuminati conspiracy theory. It was half-baked, the characters never really explained why they did anything or what they got out of it, or did or said anything remotely interesting. It possibly had more plotholes than the entire DMC game series combined (not talking about the novels). It even rehashed elements from DMC1 and DMC3 and presented it as being ''new''. The characters were annoying and pretty cliché, just cliché in a different way from the classic cliché DMC characters. Some of the writing was awkward; some of the things they said nobody would ever have any reason of saying: ''the world is at last your b**** -- as am I''. Uuh, okay? Mundus already knew you were, Lilith. And he also knew the world was now his... stating the obvious is not great writing.

Some links that explain how the gameplay isn't great and even the story could've been a lot better:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/1ugqte/end_of_2013_discussions_dmc_devil_may_cry/#s (search for reddit user ''v4lor'').
(I recommend watching all parts.)
(a two-parter)

Even most people who didn't really care for Devil May Cry in the past, thought DmC looked particularly boring. And that was reflected in the sales. There is no way the DMC fanbase alone (which was also not unanimously negative towards DmC) could make it sell 1.1 million copies. That 1.1 million was the initial figure, and I think they got 1.3 within the deadline, when they were hoping for 5 million at first. They kept reducing the target figure, eventually to 2 million (the figure of 2001's non-multiplatform DMC1 !), and it didn't even reach that. I don't believe for one second that that was due to 'haters' alone. Some media outlets did make it seem like the only reason why you wouldn't like DmC is if you were a hater... really quite insulting.



A decent summary on YouTube:

It's not about the hair, and it's not that people dislike change, it's that people dislike a terrible kind of change. The story of DMC was done all over again; it's like a badly edited combination of DMC1 and DMC3. Nobody asked for a rehash of the old story.

LIKABILITY
And then there's the simple fact that it's so hackneyed and juvenile. Capcom asked NT to westernize it and what do we get? Dante is now an obnoxious yob with a slur, who thinks he's all that and a bag of chips: ''You can call me Dante the demon killer -- has a nice ring to it, don't you think?!'' etc etc.

IDENTITY
It's not even really a Devil May Cry game. It has very different types of characters - characters that appear to have been made to be more realistic, and less enjoyable to watch. That's a fail right out of the gate: DMC never tried to be realistic, it's like a comic with Dante as its superhero.

QUALITY
Its quality is subpar, with mediocre acting, a terrible script (awful dialog), a tad counterintuitive controls, restrictive gameplay of 'hit that blue guy with the blue weapon'. It wasn't very varied. Its gameplay is like a shallow DMC4 only without backtracking.

IT FAILED ON ITS OWN POWER
And this game was meant for a general western hack-and-slash crowd. It was developed to pander to a huge pool of gamers. It's a reboot with a simple plot that was supposed to be easily likable, for the mainstream. These are only three reasons why the notion that 'DMC fans are to blame for its failure' is ignorant. There's several reasons this game didn't sell as well as the DMCs. Can you believe even DMC1 -- a new IP that hadn't garnered popularity yet, wasn't multiplatform, and was made out of scraps of RE4 -- sold better than DmC? You'd expect more from a collaboration between Capcom and Ninja Theory.
 
Last edited:

Enigma

Crimson Sentinel
Truly unprofessional though. You don't wanna act like that when business is involved.

Ninja Theory might wanna thank him too, for sure. Thanks to him, their reputation certainly improved.
IIRC, Tameem was indeed being a d***, and you don't do that in a business like that. Pretty much the whole of NT was -- at some point they even said that old Dante wasn't cool anymore, as though they have some kind of monopoly on what's cool. As though NT get to decide what other people think and feel. At some point they even seemed to imply that old Dante was incredibly uncool, and possibly gay. They actually used a picture of Brokeback Mountain, which was clearly meant as a way to make old Dante seem as prosaic, as tame and ordinary as possible. They were certainly being insulting, multiple times, I believe.
 

Foxtrot94

Elite Hunter
Premium
It's not because of its nature as a reboot that it was received negatively by the fans. Many people actually wanted a reboot, and I was one of them.

I beg to differ. I had tons of discussions on YouTube and other various places on the net back when the first trailer was shown, and there were VERY FEW people approving it.

You might have had different experiences with fans, but that's that.

Also, to go back to DMC1 style, you don't really need a reboot in the first place.
 

Enigma

Crimson Sentinel
I beg to differ. I had tons of discussions on YouTube and other various places on the net back when the first trailer was shown, and there were VERY FEW people approving it.

You might have had different experiences with fans, but that's that.

Also, to go back to DMC1 style, you don't really need a reboot in the first place.
You misunderstand. I'm not saying many people wanted DmC, I'm not saying they wanted the reboot, I'm saying many people wanted a reboot. Of course people disapproved of DmC -- that wasn't because it was a reboot, it was because they didn't like what it looked like. They didn't like the direction NT was taking with it.

A lot of people (EDIT: well alright, *quite a few, not a lot*) were in favor of the idea of a reboot. Even people on this forum.
 
Last edited:

Foxtrot94

Elite Hunter
Premium
You misunderstand. I'm not saying many people wanted DmC, I'm saying many people wanted a REBOOT.

I know, that's where I disagree. Maybe I should have phrased it better. When I said "very few people approved it", I wasn't referring to DmC itself, but rather their decision to reboot the series.

Sure, there were A TON of discussions about DmC in itself, but they were accompanied by almost an equal amount of discussions about how stupid Capcom was to make such a decision. In fact, many of the talks I had about DmC specifically, ended up touching that subject.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom