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Why the hate?

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TWOxACROSS

Hot-blooded God of Guns
Premium
Here's the thing, citing a section of Dante's wikipedia article with all its praise for the character does not show that he is iconic, only that he is an enjoyable character within his element. To be "iconic" something has to be easily and fairly recognizable to even those not privy to their source material. Dante really isn't that iconic outside of his genre (sometimes even in his genre), especially considering he is White-haired, Red-clothed Hero #156, who was directly inspired by someone who I believe is way more iconic (in Japan) than him.
 

The Final Offer

Well-known Member
You know what...even though we're all fans of something...what really turned people away from Dante is the fact that he went from looking like a Demon Hunter to looking like a rock and roll drug abuser.

The design for Dante was great at DMC 2 and then we got...shirtless Dante...the worst design decision in gaming history.....which was just dethroned by Sonic and Knuckle's new designs.

Before you ask if I'm serious. Yes, yes I am. Why WOULD YOU DO THAT after the designs before it!? D***IT MAN! It takes alot for me to dislike the way someone looks, but trying to explain why he's wearing that on the cover and throughout the entire game...is not a good way to get people interested in Devil May Cry.

*curls up into a corner with a Stella and sobs*

I was looking up cheats to put clothes on him...just a T shirt or something.....I never look up cheats! I SWORE AN OATH AND DANTE MADE ME BREAK IT!
 
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Ruisu

Of course you don't remember me.
If you need explanation what happened to franchise and Dante, DmC happened. Nothing more nothing less.
It is a bit of a stretch to say the franchise died because of DmC. The reboot was perfect to just take a new direction for Devil May Cry and run with it. The problem was not the game, but Capcom's short term vision.
DmC didn't managed to make Resident Evil numbers, so Capcom dropped it. Before DmC, Capcom had already ****ed up by letting Clover Studios crash for it's similar low numbers.
Remember God Hand? Did you think it was awesome? Capcom disagrees.
 

Innsmouth

Sleeping DMC Fan
Supporter 2014
It is a bit of a stretch to say the franchise died because of DmC. The reboot was perfect to just take a new direction for Devil May Cry and run with it. The problem was not the game, but Capcom's short term vision.
DmC didn't managed to make Resident Evil numbers, so Capcom dropped it. Before DmC, Capcom had already ****ed up by letting Clover Studios crash for it's similar low numbers.
Remember God Hand? Did you think it was awesome? Capcom disagrees.
Short numbers were only half of a thing. It splitted fanbase in two. Made to much controversies. Now half of people screams how they dont want any new DmCs and half how they don't want any DMCs. Biggest short-visioned decision in this case was to make DmC in the first place. If it never have been made, sooner or later DMC5 was made. Instead franchise in the limbo.
 

WolfOD64

That Guy Who Hates Fox McCloud
Biggest short-visioned decision in this case was to make DmC in the first place. If it never have been made, sooner or later DMC5 was made. Instead franchise in the limbo.
So that must be why they were so enthusiastic about greenlighting DMC5 at every shareholder's meeting, right?

DmC didn't replace DMC5. Capcom didn't know what to do with the original franchise after the troubled and costly development of DMC4...that's why rebooting the series was the quickest option for them. DmC wasn't a troubling or costly development for them, probably because they were only publishing and marketing the game, not making it themselves.

In the end, DmC was little more than a safe and instant cash-grab...but it never ended up replacing DMC5, since DMC5 was never going to happen anyway.
 

Innsmouth

Sleeping DMC Fan
Supporter 2014
So that must be why they were so enthusiastic about greenlighting DMC5 at every shareholder's meeting, right?

DmC didn't replace DMC5. Capcom didn't know what to do with the original franchise after the troubled and costly development of DMC4...that's why rebooting the series was the quickest option for them. DmC wasn't a troubling or costly development for them, probably because they were only publishing and marketing the game, not making it themselves.

In the end, DmC was little more than a safe and instant cash-grab...but it never ended up replacing DMC5, since DMC5 was never going to happen anyway.
DmC took 3 years to developed. And unless NT eaten raw air in this time, it costed pretty much. Aside from all apologist campaigns that also costed money and all controversy press presentations. that costed as well enough money. Also development DmC was more than troubled, considering how Itsuno said himself he needed put NT back in place on every turn to not go overboard with violence and tutor them once per month to make combat right. IT was bad attempt to cater to edgy GoW crowd that failed before it's started.

And applying their new logic DMC4 warranted sequel. DmC didn't. In the end DmC added more nails than it helped. So if it never existed future of franchise was much more secure than it ended up to be.
 

WolfOD64

That Guy Who Hates Fox McCloud
DmC took 3 years to developed. And unless NT eaten raw air in this time, it costed pretty much.
Inexpensive compared to DMC4, is what I meant. One of the main reasons that game had a troubled development cycle is because it overexceeded its budget in the middle of the game's conception. Why? Because Hideaki Kobayashi was flinging mountains of cash at making the cinematics and the MT Framework engine as stylized and pretty as possible---a fairly reasonable endeavor, to be sure, but one that came at the cost of rushing crucial aspects of the game (evident in the repetitive levels, limited arsenal, and rehashed bosses).

DmC was made on a far smaller budget, and didn't have nearly the amount of production value. That was the whole reason Capcom handed it to Ninja Theory to the first place---so they wouldn't have to sweat the effort of making it themselves, and would only have to offer input on the game's development.

It wasn't cheap to make, but it was cheaper and easier.

Aside from all apologist campaigns that also costed money and all controversy press presentations. that costed as well enough money.
I don't really know what you mean by "apologist campaigns", but something I should point out: it also COST money, not "costed." I don't mean to be a grammar nazi, but you're response is riddled with it.

Also development DmC was more than troubled, considering how Itsuno said himself he needed put NT back in place on every turn to not go overboard with violence and tutor them once per month to make combat right.
Having someone oversee the game on Capcom's behalf doesn't automatically make the development "troubled", Socrates. It's just their way of assuring the shareholders that it'll stay a Devil May Cry game, and within the boundaries of their respective budget (you know...the EXACT same problem Kobayashi ran into on the PREVIOUS Devil May Cry game). If there was anything "troubled" about DmC's development, it was mostly the early conceptual design and premise, where Ninja Theory and Capcom were disagreeing on the tone of the game, as well as Dante's design---the latter of which usually stemming from NT wanting to make him look and act more like the original, and Capcom consistently telling them not to. So you can thank them for that.

IT was bad attempt to cater to edgy GoW crowd that failed before it's started.
That's incredibly debatable, and not something I'm going to even bother to indulge or go into discussion about, especially given the original series' attempts to be edgy.

But I can safely assure you that Capcom's idea to "westernize" or "edgify" Devil May Cry was actually the suggestion of one employee, right before he left the company for good. Can you guess who that is?

And applying their new logic DMC4 warranted sequel. DmC didn't. In the end DmC added more nails than it helped. So if it never existed future of franchise was much more secure than it ended up to be.
DMC4 always warranted a sequel...that's not what's being debated here. Capcom themselves didn't want to make a sequel. In fact, the ones who did want to make DMC5 was---and brace yourself for this Earth-shattering revelation---was Ninja Theory. That's right, they wanted to make a sequel, not a reboot. They wanted to continue the timeline of the series themselves, instead of taking it in a brand-new direction or rewriting the characters from the ground up (despite the fact that DMC characters are practically rewritten from the ground up in every passing game anyway, thanks to the series' blatant narrative inconsistency). But Capcom shot those efforts down, and not only told them to reboot the series, but to make it as different as possible from the original series.

DmC's existence did nothing to change the fact that Capcom went out of their way NOT to make DMC5. It was never going to happen, the company itself was ducking the opportunity to make it like a stray bullet, and chances are, DmC's creation was the only thing Devil May Cry-related that we were ever going to get.

If a DMC sequel is ever made, it won't be by Capcom's hand. Other than a few dedicated employees like Kobayashi and Itsuno, the company isn't interested in the slightest in making it. DMC5's best chance of being made is if they sells the license for the series to someone else...but Capcom loves profiteering on even the lowest scale. They'll keep their talons on the series' license as long as they believe they can use it for a line of figurines, or a cheap cameo in another game. DmC's existence alone confirms this sad fact about Capcom's business practices.
 

Innsmouth

Sleeping DMC Fan
Supporter 2014
Inexpensive compared to DMC4, is what I meant. One of the main reasons that game had a troubled development cycle is because it overexceeded its budget in the middle of the game's conception..
so I asume you have any proof besides your claim? Since I only read about decisions problems and also problem of programming for a new console

was made on a far smaller budget, and didn't have nearly the amount of production value. That was the whole reason Capcom handed it to Ninja Theory to the first place---so they wouldn't have to sweat the effort of making it themselves, and would only have to offer input on the game's development.
Well considering DmC took 1,5 years longer than it should to developed and development started in the mid of Enslaved production, figure it yourself. so unless NT had to beg for money on the streets to get through the day Capcom payed them good load of money, which only ended in triple expectations cut.



Having someone oversee the game on Capcom's behalf doesn't automatically make the development "troubled", Socrates. It's just their way of assuring the shareholders that it'll stay a Devil May Cry game, and within the boundaries of their respective budget (you know...the EXACT same problem Kobayashi ran into on the PREVIOUS Devil May Cry game).
Yeah so Itsuno made all those trips with his team "for free" without payment and was doing it in his spare time? Seriously what you wrote, doesn't remotely reflects truth. Everything costs money. Those educational trips also. And it had nothing to do with sharholders, it was because NT had trouble doing anything with combat on their own.

If there was anything "troubled" about DmC's development, it was mostly the early conceptual design and premise, where Ninja Theory and Capcom were disagreeing on the tone of the game, as well as Dante's design---the latter of which usually stemming from NT wanting to make him look and act more like the original, and Capcom consistently telling them not to. So you can thank them for that..
once again has little to do with reality, since NONE of NT's concepts remotely looked like original



But I can safely assure you that Capcom's idea to "westernize" or "edgify" Devil May Cry was actually the suggestion of one employee, right before he left the company for good. Can you guess who that is?
Whom they made scapegoat, especially since he overseen such westernisized game as Asura's Wrath at the time. Most of blame he gets is pretty misdirected.


DMC4 always warranted a sequel...that's not what's being debated here. Capcom themselves didn't want to make a sequel. In fact, the ones who did want to make DMC5 was---and brace yourself for this Earth-shattering revelation---was Ninja Theory. That's right, they wanted to make a sequel, not a reboot. They wanted to continue the timeline of the series themselves, instead of taking it in a brand-new direction or rewriting the characters from the ground up (despite the fact that DMC characters are practically rewritten from the ground up in every passing game anyway, thanks to the series' blatant narrative inconsistency). But Capcom shot those efforts down, and not only told them to reboot the series, but to make it as different as possible from the original series..
And where did you read it? Because I read that Tameem done it since he didn't had much choice but to accept, since the ended in deep spot after Enslaved.

DmC's existence did nothing to change the fact that Capcom went out of their way NOT to make DMC5. It was never going to happen, the company itself was ducking the opportunity to make it like a stray bullet, and chances are, DmC's creation was the only thing Devil May Cry-related that we were ever going to get.
IF DmC never existed sooner or later DMC5 was made especially since Itsuno wanted to make it. Instead now whole franchise ended in the deep whole. Running after money and catering to western audience put DMC six feet under.

If a DMC sequel is ever made, it won't be by Capcom's hand. Other than a few dedicated employees like Kobayashi and Itsuno, the company isn't interested in the slightest in making it. DMC5's best chance of being made is if they sells the license for the series to someone else...but Capcom loves profiteering on even the lowest scale. They'll keep their talons on the series' license as long as they believe they can use it for a line of figurines, or a cheap cameo in another game.
Capcom isn't interested in anything at all anymore. They don't even release games for like 3-4 months, They are in problematic financial state and have no choice but using only bullet proof sales. Guess what put them in it
DmC's existence alone confirms this sad fact about Capcom's business practices.
At least we agree on this >_>
 

TWOxACROSS

Hot-blooded God of Guns
Premium
Who? Gackt?

Cobra :p

It splitted fanbase in two.

DmC didn't split the fanbase, the fanbase split the fanbase.

IF DmC never existed sooner or later DMC5 was made especially since Itsuno wanted to make it.

It was stated a long time ago that if DmC wasn't made, there would have been nothing else for Devil May Cry. It was literally DmC or nothing. Itsuno's desire to make something doesn't ensure it would have gotten made, either. There's a whole lot of stipulations to get a green light.
 

The Final Offer

Well-known Member
Cobra :p



DmC didn't split the fanbase, the fanbase split the fanbase.



It was stated a long time ago that if DmC wasn't made, there would have been nothing else for Devil May Cry. It was literally DmC or nothing. Itsuno's desire to make something doesn't ensure it would have gotten made, either. There's a whole lot of stipulations to get a green light.

You should've seen the green lights Platinum Games had to get to make Bayonetta 2. Phew.
 

Pale Rider

Wickedly good
It was also stated that they would see where DmC goes and then would decide if there was gonna be any more of the previous games. So yeah, DmC did kill DMC.

I guess that's alright because I didn't see the point of rebooting the franchise only to go back to the original universe.
 

Demi-fiend

Metempsychosis
Supporter 2014
Finally SOMEONE said it. Fans blame Capcom for the split, but its the fans idiotic reaction that ruined it all.
You know, that's what I like about your posts. You don't like DmC, but you're willing to scrutinize the old series for what it was as well. Bravo.

And yes. It was the fans. Games aren't sentient (yet) -- they're not capable of starting flame wars for no good reason (yet).
 

Innsmouth

Sleeping DMC Fan
Supporter 2014
DmC didn't split the fanbase, the fanbase split the fanbase.
I pretend this sentence makes any sense.


It was stated a long time ago that if DmC wasn't made, there would have been nothing else for Devil May Cry. It was literally DmC or nothing. Itsuno's desire to make something doesn't ensure it would have gotten made, either. There's a whole lot of stipulations to get a green light.
Actually such statement simply doesn't exist ;)
 
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