Why the hate?

[Chancey289]

Pulling from Wikipedia and citing opinion pieces from years ago as if they are facts on the status of a silly video game character that's mainstream appeal was hardly there making him and the franchise basically go off the radar for years? ....................ok, whatever.

 

[Innsmouth]

Yeah, cause I ALWAYS take Wikipedia's words to heart.

Well if he's SOOO popular as that said...
WHERE HE AT NOW?
WHERE DMC5 BE AT??
WHERE WAS HE AT THE VG AWARDS THIS YEAR???
WHY BAYO 2 RULING THE HACK N SLASH GAME????

Y'know, since he IS popular n' all.

Bayo ruing the game? Sorry to burst your bubble but as good as bayo is, it didn't reached full amount of DMC fans and there is no hope it ever does unless it goes multiplatform, which never gonna happen. As for your questions:
Where is Megaman?
Where is Castlevania?
Where is Metroid?
What happened to Prince of Persia?
See how easy it goes? Can be asked about half of iconic franchises. If you need explanation what happened to franchise and Dante, DmC happened. Nothing more nothing less.

 

[Bazilican]

Bayo ruing the game? Sorry to burst your bubble but as good as bayo is, it didn't reached full amount of DMC fans and there is no hope it ever does unless it goes multiplatform, which never gonna happen. As for your questions:
Where is Megaman?
Where is Castlevania?
Where is Metroid?
What happened to Prince of Persia?
See how easy it goes? Can be asked about half of iconic franchises. If you need explanation what happened to franchise and Dante, DmC happened. Nothing more nothing less.

But yet where's DMC to put Bayo 2 in it's place exactly? Oh yeah, NOT HERE.

Megaman is in SSBs.
Castlevania Lord of Shadows 2 came out in 2014. That's still recent.
Metroid is ALSO in SSBs.
Prince of Persia passed its torch to Assassin's Creed and lives on through that.

Where exactly is Dante these days if he's so "iconic"?

DMC is gone because fans are split down the middle like immature congressmen and the Capcom's too pig-headed to find a solution. You can try and make Dante out like he IS some sort of icon, but in the end you're only making it harder for me to take you seriously.

 

[The Final Offer]

But yet where's DMC to put Bayo 2 in it's place exactly? Oh yeah, NOT HERE.

Megaman is in SSBs.
Castlevania Lord of Shadows 2 came out in 2014. That's still recent.
Metroid is ALSO in SSBs.
Prince of Persia passed its torch to Assassin's Creed and lives on through that.

Where exactly is Dante these days if he's so "iconic"?

DMC is gone because fans are split down the middle like immature congressmen and the Capcom's too pig-headed to find a solution. You can try and make Dante out like he IS some sort of icon, but in the end you're only making it harder for me to take you seriously.

You're talking alot of **** about Capcom for no good reason.

Again I'll say this. Capcom is doing what they can to give us the games we are requesting. There is evidence of new Megaman games all over the internet. Capcom had to cancel alot of games because they weren't great. But they let us know that they hear us by releasing Megaman into Smash Wii U.

So stop acting like you know what's going on with Capcom internally because they aren't releasing games you love quick enough.

 

[Innsmouth]

But yet where's DMC to put Bayo 2 in it's place exactly? Oh yeah, NOT HERE.

Megaman is in SSBs.
Castlevania Lord of Shadows 2 came out in 2014. That's still recent.
Metroid is ALSO in SSBs.
Prince of Persia passed its torch to Assassin's Creed and lives on through that.

Where exactly is Dante these days if he's so "iconic"?

DMC is gone because fans are split down the middle like immature congressmen and the Capcom's too pig-headed to find a solution. You can try and make Dante out like he IS some sort of icon, but in the end you're only making it harder for me to take you seriously.

There is no need to put Bayo 2 in place. Because it's public right now is just to small, to make a difference. Sadly most of it's fans were left on ps and xbox.

Marvel vs. Capcom 3. Project X Zone. So? Cameos: Sengoku Bssara 4, Monster Hunter Frontier G. Dante gets cameos and roles almost every year, so what are you talking about? And if this doesn't count, you may delete that SSB reference.

Also PoP isn't AC. AC taken some mechanics, but you won't go around claiming DMC passed it torch to Dragon's Dogma, because of combat and few references, now are you?

 

[Bazilican]

You're talking alot of **** about Capcom for no good reason.

Again I'll say this. Capcom is doing what they can to give us the games we are requesting. There is evidence of new Megaman games all over the internet. Capcom had to cancel alot of games because they weren't great. But they let us know that they hear us by releasing Megaman into Smash Wii U.

So stop acting like you know what's going on with Capcom internally because they aren't releasing games you love quick enough.

Oh so because Capcom decides to release a megaman game suddenly all is forgiven? It's gonna take more then a megaman rumor to get them back to the top.

There is no need to put Bayo 2 in place. Because it's public right now is just to small, to make a difference.

Like the DMC franchise then?

Marvel vs. Capcom 3. Project X Zone. So? Cameos: Sengoku Bssara 4, Monster Hunter Frontier G. Dante gets cameos and roles almost every year, so what are you talking about? And if this doesn't count, you may delete that SSB reference.

MVC3 came out 2010
Project X zone 2013
Capcom uses costumes from other games all the time. That's still in Capcom's circle and not outside capcom.
Monster hunter is again in Capcom's circle.
All this only equals to Dante's image being in Capcom's small circle of popularity, but not enough to be iconic outside of Capcom's shadow of say Street Fighter.

Also PoP isn't AC. AC taken some mechanics, but you won't go around claiming DMC passed it torch to Dragon's Dogma, because of combat and few references, now are you?

PoP pretty much is a spin-off of AC. And who'd be dumb enough to compare DMC to Dragon's Dogma? Come on, man you can't be serious.

 

[The Final Offer]

Oh so because Capcom decides to release a megaman game suddenly all is forgiven? It's gonna take more then a megaman rumor to get them back to the top.


Like the DMC franchise then?

What are you saying? That you're impatient.

Ok, got it.

Don't get mad at Capcom because they can't meet your impossible demands.

 

[Innsmouth]

Like the DMC franchise then?

.

Like 1/3 of DMC crowd. Meaning it didn't reached amount of DMC's fanbase...and now it probably never will.

MVC3 came out 2010
Project X zone 2013
Capcom uses costumes from other games all the time. That's still in Capcom's circle and not outside capcom.
Monster hunter is again in Capcom's circle.
All this only equals to Dante's image being in Capcom's small circle of popularity, but not enough to be iconic outside of Capcom's shadow of say Street Fighter.

Because 2013 was soooo last year...literally Seriously it's been released last year and you think it's long? KH franchise gets sequels once on 3-5 years and yet remains strong.

PoP pretty much is a spin-off of AC. And who'd be dumb enough to compare DMC to Dragon's Dogma? Come on, man you can't be serious.

PoP is spin-off of AC? WTF...It's rather AC used dumbed down PoP mechanics and put it in GTA format. PoP isn't related to AC except for wall-climbing and even than PoP had more complex platforming gameplay than AC

 

[Lord Nero]

Dante is well known, but all those things on wikia aren't a little exaggerate?I mean, he is cool and all, but he can be describe basically as " Pirate Cobra with Prince Lotor (from Voltron ) personality ".
And yes, he is famous in internet, but surely he is even more infamous, being target to every kind of jokes. And they forget to mention Dante ranked high on a japanese poll of " Good looking, but highly disappointing characters".
So, for the better and the worst, he is a kinda of iconic.

Never seen Wikipedia exaggerate things - it's reviewed pretty often by experts, usually every week, I think. At least, that's the case for important topics - not quite sure if the info about entertainment like DMC is also reviewed so often. Also, I don't know what that Japanese poll is about, but 'disappointing' is a very vague and subjective word. Disappointing... as in, people expected more from him? Well, my expectations were met: I think he is as he is meant to be, and I never expected anything different. He wasn't meant to be a very deep character, he was meant to be a superhero-like character, or like a character from a drama play.

I don't know why Wikipedia is being excoriated here. It merely shows that many reviewers thought he was cool from the beginning. People liked Dante, and in some way he became iconic. So, if somebody can explain more clearly, by all means.
That said, I'm not sure what to think about the term 'iconic'. I gather that it means this: A person or thing regarded as a representative symbol, OR as worthy of veneration. I doubt you can say that DMC represents the entire H&S genre, but it's certainly worthy of veneration, according to the sources on Wikipedia... and pretty much everyone who's a fan of DMC. If it weren't venerable, there would be no DMC fans. Actually, returning to the point of 'representation', I suppose that if DMC spawned a new H&S genre like people say it did, then obviously DMC is iconic in that regard.
And like Innsmouth (I think) said, they don't put Dante in all kinds of games just to market DMC - that wouldn't be a smart move. Take MVC3/UMVC3 for example: characters and movesets take time and effort to make, and if most people didn't recognize Dante or whatever, then they wouldn't really want to play as him, and would prefer a different character. That would mean money and effort Capcom spent on the game was lost. Just a cameo of Dante, or a playable version of him, well... I doubt that's going to make DMC much more popular. And there are plenty of gaming icons that apparently have been shelved for indefinite periods of time (see Innsmouth's last post).

Further, I'm not sure what Chancey means by ''going off the radar for years''. Does it refer to the period between the release of DMC4 and DmC? The plan was to reboot the series, and obviously that takes time, especially if you involve another developer. Aside from that, it seems to me that Capcom tried several approaches to DMC5. DMC4 got some teaser trailers, but I'm not even sure DMC5 got any, so Capcom probably didn't know what to do for a while. If anything, Devil May Cry only went off the radar since DmC, right? DmC is the game that hardly sold, and games like DMC3 and DMC4 are still more popular than DmC across the internet.
Like Ruisu said: right now, Capcom doesn't know what to do with many of its franchises.

 

[Chancey289]

I heard originally Assassin's Creed started out as a Prince of Persia game, but was later turned in to AC. I could see some of the influence that particular franchise has on AC, but I wouldn't say AC is the spiritual successor to PoP.

I loved the Sands of Time trilogy on the PS2, but I'm done with Ubisoft. I have no hope for them as a video game company and I'm sick of their ridiculous BS and bad games. Personally, I think Ubisoft has become even worse than EA. A shame since they were really good back in the day.

 

[Chancey289]

@ColdSteel
Anyone can edit Wikipedia. And what was being cited was primarily opinion pieces from years ago as if they are facts. As for why people say DMC kinda fell off the radar as the years went on is because when you look at the franchise, Dante's lineage is primarily remembered and celebrated by those who have played the games and dig the hack n slash genre.

He was never a household name and the highest selling game is hardly even that big of a deal compared to other titles in Capcom's lineup and the gaming industry in general.

I think the numbers do speak that as well. Inflation is a b!tch and Devil May Cry's highest sales are still not really something to think is a big deal. It took time for it to become that high selling game. There's games that break insane bank overnight. And I really only see it supported and bought by people who are already familiar with the franchise.

DmC was an attempt to introduce Dante and the franchise to a new generation of gamers (WHICH DOES EXIST) and, the fanboy rage was totally seen through the numbers because any new gamers picking up Devil May Cry for the first time around with DmC couldn't make up for the sales loss simply out of spite against a reboot.

I think DmC shows exactly what my first point was, Devil May Cry is a series supported by a fanbase that for the most part are already familiar with franchise and it can't seem to get new blood. Which is why I just see an unfortunate future for the franchise as a whole. Garnering new fans is vital for long lasting franchises.

Look at comic book superheroes, they didn't stay popular for so long because they had one devoted fanbase for years. They added more and more as the years went on.

DMC has five games and that's it. And once again it's just sitting there. The more time DMC stands still, the less relevant it'll get. I hate to say it, but DMC's got one foot in the grave.

 

[Lord Nero]

@ColdSteel
Anyone can edit Wikipedia. And what was being cited was primarily opinion pieces from years ago as if they are facts. As for why people say DMC kinda fell off the radar as the years went on is because when you look at the franchise, Dante's lineage is primarily remembered and celebrated by those who have played the games and dig the hack n slash genre.

He was never a household name and the highest selling game is hardly even that big of a deal compared to other titles in Capcom's lineup and the gaming industry in general.

I think the numbers do speak that as well. Inflation is a b!tch and Devil May Cry's highest sales are still not really something to think is a big deal. It took time for it to become that high selling game. There's games that break insane bank overnight. And I really only see it supported and bought by people who are already familiar with the franchise.

DmC was an attempt to introduce Dante and the franchise to a new generation of gamers (WHICH DOES EXIST) and, the fanboy rage was totally seen through the numbers because any new gamers picking up Devil May Cry for the first time around with DmC couldn't make up for the sales loss simply out of spite against a reboot.

I think DmC shows exactly what my first point was, Devil May Cry is a series supported by a fanbase that for the most part are already familiar with franchise and it can't seem to get new blood. Which is why I just see an unfortunate future for the franchise as a whole. Garnering new fans is vital for long lasting franchises.

Look at comic book superheroes, they didn't stay popular for so long because they had one devoted fanbase for years. They added more and more as the years went on.

DMC has five games and that's it. And once again it's just sitting there. The more time DMC stands still, the less relevant it'll get. I hate to say it, but DMC's got one foot in the grave.

- That's actually not true. I tried editing something once, but I was locked out by default. I could edit a small Dutch article about Dragon Ball Z, but that was pretty much it. Some people have reported editing things, but seeing the edits reversed very soon. Besides, even if anyone can edit Wikipedia, it's reviewed by experts every once in a while. There's really not much of a reason to act like Wikipedia is just some random stuff random people make it.
''Dante's lineage is primarily remembered and celebrated by those who have played the games''. Yes, but not only fans of DMC have played DMC... it was everyone who had even the slightest interest in H&S games and decided to buy it. DMC's main attraction was its gameplay, not the story, so it seems like many people could remember DMC and/or Dante. And maybe I've missed the point, but DMC being remembered and celebrated isn't the only way for it to get good sales in the future. If it's a good game, gets advertized well, and people want to buy it, then it'll sell.
Yeah, so they were opinions... I don't see your point. Opinions are all people can have - nothing is completely objective. Many, many people and reviewers held those opinions.

- Does something/someone have to be a household name (known in most households) to be iconic? I don't know, man. Sure, maybe Dante isn't as well-known as Kratos, but apparently a lot of people feel that he is iconic. I'm pretty sure Innsmouth and most of the rest of the people in this thread have already explained with multiple arguments, so I don't need to repeat it.
Also, DMC4 sold what, 2.8 million within the deadline? Now it's 2.9 or 3 million, which is more than games like Battlefield: Bad Company got. I don't see how that's bad.

- ''It took time for it to become that high selling game''. Not really, I think. DMC1 already sold 2 million, and it was a new IP, I'm not sure H&S games were even that popular, and it wasn't multiplatform. I don't even know if it was advertized that well, but I would assume it wasn't since it was a new IP and they didn't have much faith in it since it was just scraps of RE4.
''And I really only see it supported and bought by people who are already familiar with the franchise.'' Again, I don't know how you know this. If it's just an impression, I doubt I can argue with impressions.

- Seriously doubt some disgruntled fans can cause a game to flop so dramatically. Yes, there was a lot of hate, but honestly, I'm not convinced that the majority of all DMC fans refused to buy DmC. DmC dug its own grave, and I explained that before, as well as here: What are you sick of?

- DmC was meant for newcomers - it was meant for people who never heard of Devil May Cry, and those who just didn't like the DMCs and wanted a different take. Hell, it was simply meant for fans of H&S games. It provides a story you can follow from the beginning, it was a reboot. It got a lot of publicity, and I would've expected it to sell well. Taking all of that into account, I don't see why you think that only fans of DMC were interested in it - can you explain? I just think DmC's sales show that most people didn't like it. Simple.

- Sure, if DMC isn't continued in some way, it's gonna die, but it's been dead since DmC. DmC is not DMC.
I'm not sure what else to say... this whole debate is pretty vague. How did this even pertain to the thread's topic? I feel like the thread's gone off on a tangent nobody remembers the point of.

 

[Chancey289]

*sigh* F#ck it.

 

[Lord Nero]

I'm only asking for some explanations... if you hold a certain belief it must be based on something you can corroborate with arguments (I would hope). But anyway, maybe this thread should return to the original topic.

 

[Chancey289]

I did explain, and all I got in return was reaching counterarguments and you misreading or misunderstanding what I was trying to tell you along with things that are just flat out wrong. Not to mention adding some stuff I never even said.

 

[Lord Nero]

I did explain, and all I got in return was reaching counterarguments and you misreading or misunderstanding what I was trying to tell you along with things that are just flat out wrong. Not to mention adding some stuff I never even said.

How did you explain anything? I only quoted you just now, in order to deepen the debate and get some answers. You haven't explained anything yet, you've only made some assertions. Now to back them up.
If I've misunderstood something, the normal response is to explain. Like I said in a different thread, if people are having trouble understanding something you said, it's probably because you could've said it more clearly.

And you're again not giving any explanation, in this case as to how I misread or misunderstood what you were saying. Having an opinion is good, but right now, it seems unfounded with arguments, because you haven't explained anything. Case in point: ''I think DmC shows exactly what my first point was, Devil May Cry is a series supported by a fanbase that for the most part are already familiar with franchise and it can't seem to get new blood.''
This is a perfectly fine statement, but it's not explained (how does DmC show your point, why is Devil May Cry only supported by fans and people who know it) so what ''explanation'' are you referring to? I mean, it's like you're saying DMC only succeeds financially and popularly because of the DMC fans - as though DMC fans are the only reason DmC flopped. We both know better.
Seriously, this is why I said it's all so vague; nothing is explained... and this is a forum, so explanations would be nice. But whatever, I don't need debates that run themselves into the ground because of petty feelings.

...And you call Innsmouth brusque.

 

[Bazilican]

It's almost sad how people hear worship Dante as if he was the greatest video game character to ever be sh!t out of Capcom's arsehole when really, he's just a whole bunch of tropes in one who barely makes it past Capcom's play pin.

But the fans try to push him as if he's some god of video gaming when really he's a niche character, in a niche series, of a niche genre.

 

[Demi-fiend]

But the fans try to push him as if he's some god of video gaming when really he's a niche character, in a niche series, of a niche genre.

Who stole more than his fair share of ideas from better characters.

[Fierce Diety Link, Blade, Shadow Man, Alucard SotN, Alucard HS, Gabriel Knight (who was another carefree supernatural "Shattenjager" (Shadow Hunter) who hung out in castles, stopped the Apocalypse, owned his own business with a sarcastic sidekick -- and all before Dante made it "cool") etc.]

 

[Lord Nero]

''It's almost sad how people hear worship Dante as if he was the greatest video game character to ever be sh!t out of Capcom's arsehole.''

Haven't seen anyone argue that on this forum, ever... so unless I haven't been around long enough, I'm calling bullsh*t. Dante was never some ingenious, deep character, and that wasn't the point behind him either.
But anyway, that wasn't even the argument in this thread, was it? It was whether he's iconic in some way -- seems like he is, or at least many people think he is, which is probably enough.

 

[Bazilican]

''It's almost sad how people hear worship Dante as if he was the greatest video game character to ever be sh!t out of Capcom's arsehole.''

Haven't seen anyone argue that on this forum, ever... so unless I haven't been around long enough, I'm calling bullsh*t. Dante was never some ingenious, deep character, and that wasn't the point behind him either.
But anyway, that wasn't even the argument in this thread, was it? It was whether he's iconic in some way -- seems like he is, or at least many people think he is, which is probably enough.

But he also wasn't entertaining nor anything worth sneezing at after DMC1. Hell, he wasn't much of a unique guy even in DMC1.

Also Dante being iconic wasn't what this thread was about either. It was originally about why the hate for new Dante.