X-box's fault or the Owners

[Damien]

On March 23rd 2009, BBC's Watchdog TV show took an investigation into how the console scratches its own discs. One person featured in the investigation was 13-year-old boy Michael Mowatt, who saves up for his games by collecting pigeon droppings from his neighbor's pigeon coop. It usually takes him around a month to save up for new games for his console. When he tried out one of his newly-bought games, the game suddenly stopped reading and when he took the disc out, he found a carved circle around the inside of the disc. His mother (Rachel Mowatt) thought that Michael had been misusing the console and told him off for damaging the disc. But the same problem happened again with another of his discs a few days later, and this time Rachel knew that something was wrong. The console was still in warranty, so he sent it off to Microsoft for it to get looked at - but the scientists at Microsoft found nothing.

The same thing happened with Robert Monaghan and his family. They bought an Xbox 360 and a copy of Rock band (with all of the instruments) so that there was something for the family to do, but after a while playing the game, the game disc also was subjected to the carved inner ring problem on the disc. Robert thought that the children in his family were misusing the console as well, so he punished them. After a while, the same family bought Guitar Hero World Tour for the console instead, so that they still had something to do. Same thing happened, but this time dad Robert knew there was something wrong with the console. So, like Michael, he also sent his console away to be looked at - but again, no problems.

Because of these two stories, the Watchdog team started to do their own experiment. They bought a brand new Xbox 360 and borrowed one which they knew had already caused problems. They sealed both of the consoles on separate tables, with two jugs of water next to them each to indicate any console movement. The team set to work by gaming for six days straight, but nothing happened with both consoles.

But then the team realized that those sort of conditions wouldn't be in your average living room - so they took the two Xbox 360 consoles to a lab in Hampshire, UK, for them to be tested more. The two consoles were about to be subjected to some vibrations on a surface which would make the console slightly move to test out if movements in an average family home could damage the discs. The first test they carried out simulated walking (with slight vibrations) - and both consoles passed the test. But then the scientists carried out a 'shock vibration test' which would simulate the sort of movement that would replicate putting a heavy book on the table by the Xbox. The new Xbox 360 passed again, but the old console scratched the disc.

Currently, Microsoft say that it is the user's fault that the discs were damaged, because they say that they 'make clear about multiple warnings not to move the console with the disc inside'. They also say that only a minority of customers are affected by this issue. However, the company did not comment on the lab tests.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_3...igation_of_Xbox_360_disc_scratches_.282009.29


WHAT DO YOU THINK

 

[VeNGeD]

I have been playing on a 360 since it was released, the only disc that the 360 has scratched of mine is Soul Caliber IV. I had the 360 sitting up vertically and while the game was in I accidently knocked it over. The disc was scratched and would never load past the 4th stage of Arcade mode.

I don't blame Microsoft for it because it was me knocking it over with the disc inside that broke the game. If people are worried that much about it, putting the 360 down on it's side shouldn't cause any problems at all... Unless you picked it up while a game is inside, which is just common sense not to do that.

 

[Dark Drakan]

Its simple and every console that uses CD's says NOT to move it when its switched on with a disc in. So id say its the users fault and not Microsofts, mine has never scratched a game and theres no-one i know personally who has had this problem. Ive heard of a handful of people on forums scratching their discs after they moved the console while it was on but thats their fault for not following simple instructions. As VeNGeD said, it comes down to common sense really.

 

[Damien]

i know , i think the BBC used taxpayers money again on pointless things :lol:

 

[Dark Drakan]

i know , i think the BBC used taxpayers money again on pointless things :lol:

When arent people using taxpayers money on stupid studies or research polls?

 

[-B.(o).C-®]

They shouldn't make a console that doubles as a shredder.

 

[Keaton]

Wickse, were you pushished for misusing your console ?

Its an intresting find, but I personally have never had any problems, my 360 sits on the floor but well away from high traffic so I rarely get noticible vibrations that could cause such disaster in a disc. I think it would be pointless to argue that its Microsofts fault, because as said above me, its all common sense...don't sit your Xbox next to where your kid brother or sistter jumps up and down all day hyped up on Sugar...or is that just me

 

[Damien]

Wickse, were you pushished for misusing your console ?

How did u know :lol: no , i missed the bbc prgo when it was on and i read it and thought " hmm " so i posted it , personally its a bit of both really , common sense of the owner and microsoft for building a console that destroys discs when a vibration happens ....

 

[Angelo Credo]

Again I feel like the lucky one, my 360 has basically been through an earthquake's worth of vibrations whilst I've been playing a game and not one of my disks have been munched. :lol:

Still, Microsoft do make the warning to not move your console while a disc is in use, so if you move it, it is kinda your own fault, just seems like the BBC wasting more money on totally pointless and ultimately irrelevant things though.

 

[aka958]

I own only preowned games but i got one game that is not preowned. that is DMC4... I've never ever left it out either the XBOX or the little thing you got it in... still it got worse scratches than my preowned ones. i played DMC4 very much before my Xbox got the red rings of death.

 

[Black Angel]

The X box does that because of a few vibrations?

That is a crappy console right there, my ps2 can be moved/vibrated/picked up/dropped a few inches/moved around and it never so much as hiccups. And if you turn it upside down it just spits out the disc.

And no, I'm not a sony fanboy either. I don't own a Ps3 or an Xbox myself so I'm impartial.

This just seems stupid, a little vibration and your disc is gone. This plus the RRoD, makes me think this is a VERY overhyped piece of junk.

Oh well console gaming is futile anyway.

 

[Dark Drakan]

The X box does that because of a few vibrations?

That is a crappy console right there, my ps2 can be moved/vibrated/picked up/dropped a few inches/moved around and it never so much as hiccups. And if you turn it upside down it just spits out the disc.

And no, I'm not a sony fanboy either. I don't own a Ps3 or an Xbox myself so I'm impartial.

This just seems stupid, a little vibration and your disc is gone. This plus the RRoD, makes me think this is a VERY overhyped piece of junk.

Oh well console gaming is futile anyway.

No it doesnt do it from a little vibration (as the article says it passed on all tests). It does it when people pick up and move the console when turned on as the disc is spinning and it knocks the disc off its axis and causes it to hit the sides. Its not the Xboxs fault if people cant follow simple instructions. 360 is a great machine, not without its faults but a great console none the less and ive had no real problems with mine & never regretted my purchase.

 

[Black Angel]

No it doesnt do it from a little vibration (as the article says it passed on all tests). It does it when people pick up and move the console when turned on as the disc is spinning and it knocks the disc off its axis and causes it to hit the sides. Its not the Xboxs fault if people cant follow simple instructions. 360 is a great machine, not without its faults but a great console none the less and ive had no real problems with mine & never regretted my purchase.

I read the article, and the Xbox is the only console I have ever herd about having this issue.

Seems like another overlooked design flaw by microsoft.

 

[Dark Drakan]

I read the article, and the Xbox is the only console I have ever herd about having this issue.

Seems like another overlooked design flaw by microsoft.

Its to do with the design of CD tray it has. PS3 doesnt use disc trays but if it crashes you cant get CD's out without opening the console up (same as Wii). Sony saw a mistake in the disc tray design with PS2 so redesigned it with the slimline and went back to the PS1 idea. Then scrapped it totally with the PS3. Microsoft having never had any disc tray problems kept the same old design. The 360 has 2 cushion like sponges inside to stop the discs bouncing around when it is rotated but if turned over while its on the discs go slanted and causes them to bounce off the sponges and causes the scratches. So as long as you dont tilt it when its on its fine, not so much a design flaw as if its used correctly it wont do any damage. However if for some reason you want to try and juggle your console while playing a game you will not only ruin your discs but also lose any respect from people who see you as an intelligent member of the human race. I personally think disc trays are outdated and consoles should do away with them fully next generation.

 

[Black Angel]

Its to do with the design of CD tray it has. PS3 doesnt use disc trays but if it crashes you cant get CD's out without opening the console up (same as Wii). Sony saw a mistake in the disc tray design with PS2 so redesigned it with the slimline and went back to the PS1 idea. Then scrapped it totally with the PS3. Microsoft having never had any disc tray problems kept the same old design. The 360 has 2 cushion like sponges inside to stop the discs bouncing around when it is rotated but if turned over while its on the discs go slanted and causes them to bounce off the sponges and causes the scratches. So as long as you dont tilt it when its on its fine, not so much a design flaw as if its used correctly it wont do any damage. However if for some reason you want to try and juggle your console while playing a game you will not only ruin your discs but also lose any respect from people who see you as an intelligent member of the human race. I personally think disc trays are outdated and consoles should do away with them fully next generation.

The Ps2 disc tray can be opened while the console is turned off or unplugged, I have one.

As for the Wii, you can just tilt it forward and the disc slides out even when it has no power, we have done this with a friends Wii.

We even dropped the Wii while playing it(accident due to rambunctious teenagers) and the console didn't even notice, game kept right on playing.

I just would not feel right playing something as fragile as an Xbox. A console should be able to handle some inevitable abuse that comes from teens and playing. Don't have to treat any other consoles out there like a sick old person who breaks at the slightest thing.

And I know that you should treat your consoles well, but come on. The Xbox was designed for an audience that would inevitably bump it or something and right now every other console on the market can take it better.

If you are wondering what audience I mean, EVERYONE WHO DOES NOT LIVE IN A NURSING HOME.

The Xbox scratches games, the Ps3 doesn't, neither does the Wii, or most old gen consoles for that matter.

Honestly, if the slightest shudder is gonna be to much for the console then obviously Microsoft made another mistake in designing it.

There is no excuse for bad design in a next gen console. Especially when no other consoles have this issue.

And of course you don't tilt the console, but that is FAR from what happened in the article, they but a book down next to the thing and it failed.

Basically you are trying to say;

"If you ignore the fact that your console will RRoD and be bricked for a week at least once and if you ignore that if you bump the thing it will destroy your games then yes this is a perfectly designed console."

I honestly blame the company, they should have had their act together before they put a console on the market.

Could say the same thing about sony though, for different reasons.

 

[Dark Drakan]

The Ps2 disc tray can be opened while the console is turned off or unplugged, I have one.

As for the Wii, you can just tilt it forward and the disc slides out even when it has no power, we have done this with a friends Wii.

We even dropped the Wii while playing it(accident due to rambunctious teenagers) and the console didn't even notice, game kept right on playing.

I just would not feel right playing something as fragile as an Xbox. A console should be able to handle some inevitable abuse that comes from teens and playing. Don't have to treat any other consoles out there like a sick old person who breaks at the slightest thing.

And I know that you should treat your consoles well, but come on. The Xbox was designed for an audience that would inevitably bump it or something and right now every other console on the market can take it better.

If you are wondering what audience I mean, EVERYONE WHO DOES NOT LIVE IN A NURSING HOME.

The Xbox scratches games, the Ps3 doesn't, neither does the Wii, or most old gen consoles for that matter.

Honestly, if the slightest shudder is gonna be to much for the console then obviously Microsoft made another mistake in designing it.

There is no excuse for bad design in a next gen console. Especially when no other consoles have this issue.

And of course you don't tilt the console, but that is FAR from what happened in the article, they but a book down next to the thing and it failed.

Basically you are trying to say;

"If you ignore the fact that your console will RRoD and be bricked for a week at least once and if you ignore that if you bump the thing it will destroy your games then yes this is a perfectly designed console."

I honestly blame the company, they should have had their act together before they put a console on the market.

Could say the same thing about sony though, for different reasons.

As i said before in my post the consoles have a sponge guard in them to stop them scratching discs now. Only the early consoles (the one that failed the book test) failed at this and the others passed. It was an oversight by a factory that first made them and not a design fault as all the others contained this piece of equipment to stop them. My 360 had been knocked off the table but still worked fine, was an accident (due to small size of my room) only thing i broke was a memory card that was plugged in the front because it landed on it. Although i treat my console well (overlooking this one accident ages ago) i dont treat it like something thats going to break and its been fine. Had RROD once but my room gets very warm due to its size had nowhere else to put it but close to a radiator at the time and took 2+ years to get the RROD. Also had 10+ hour gaming sessions in that heat so i was surprised after all the reports of the RROD it lasted so long. Its been fixed and moved since then and has been fine. Ironically out of all the consoles ive owned in my years only my PS1 and PS2 have broken.

Consoles shouldnt have these problems agreed but there are always technical oversights. N64 had problems with the expansion bay and sometimes wouldnt save games. PS1 and PS2 both has laser issues and suffered from Disc Read Error nightmare. 360 had overheating issues and some early disc scratch issues. I play consoles for the games not to criticise companies for technical oversights, if they have issues they are usually resolved (for free in my experience with 360). Been well worth the money and i havent spent any extra on my console other than buying some of the best games ive played & ive been gaming a long time.

 

[Black Angel]

As i said before in my post the consoles have a sponge guard in them to stop them scratching discs now. Only the early consoles (the one that failed the book test) failed at this and the others passed. It was an oversight by a factory that first made them and not a design fault as all the others contained this piece of equipment to stop them.

So its a factory oversight? Still, it is ultimately the company's responsibility to ensure that their console actually works before it hits the market. In almost every other industry things like this don't happen because the products are tested extensively one last time before leaving the factory.

Had RROD once but my room gets very warm due to its size had nowhere else to put it but close to a radiator at the time and took 2+ years to get the RROD. Also had 10+ hour gaming sessions in that heat so i was surprised after all the reports of the RROD it lasted so long. Its been fixed and moved since then and has been fine.

I hear that RRoD isn't as much of an issue now, you have to really fry the console to get it to RRoD.

Consoles shouldnt have these problems agreed but there are always technical oversights. N64 had problems with the expansion bay and sometimes wouldnt save games. PS1 and PS2 both has laser issues and suffered from Disc Read Error nightmare. 360 had overheating issues and some early disc scratch issues. I play consoles for the games not to criticise companies for technical oversights, if they have issues they are usually resolved (for free in my experience with 360). Been well worth the money and i havent spent any extra on my console other than buying some of the best games ive played & ive been gaming a long time.

I agree that gaming is about the games, but it doesn't matter if the Xbox only games are the best in existence if the Xbox360 itself will eat them.:lol:

Again, it is the company's responsibility to ensure that when you get your console, it has all its parts.

Microsoft should really be replacing the consoles of people who have this issue.

 

[Angelo Credo]

Microsoft are too cheap to replace the consoles for any other reason except RRoD. :lol:
It sucks that my 3 year warranty covers only the Red Ring, because the chances of me getting one are very slim, considering how much I play and where it's kept, still, these days it's not thast expensive to pick up a new console, but I do agree that they should be taking greater steps to either replace your console of something like this happens, which is clearly a design fault, or stamp out the problem altogether.

Still, I don't see that happening, sadly.

 

[Damien]

i totally agree with that ^ AC , the chances of mircosoft owning up to something apart from the RRoD is very slim and impossible .... Mircosoft arent going to wasting there money on a console that messes disc's up as they argue " owners fault not ours" but with the RRoD is completey their fault so they have to own up and replace it ....

 

[Angelo Credo]

As much as I do like my 360, it's gotta be said, Microsoft love to cut corner, if they'd have waited a little while longer before releasing the console, the RRoD could have been avoided and they could have worked on the disc scratching problems, but hey, they just wanted to get ahead of the competition by releasing their console early...Sigh, when will Microsoft learn?