Why does Ninja Theory get all the bullsh*t?

[TWOxACROSS]

No, of course not. I think his hair is going to stay short. You think it's going to change into old Dante's long hairstyle? What reason do you have for believing this?

Well, it's hair, he could really do whatever he wants with it, and it'll grow out over time because...it's hair

But, you said this...

The fact that Dante gets white hair at the end of DmC is not important, since it looks nothing like old Dante's hair. DmC Dante's hair is short and sort of unkempt, and old Dante's hair is long and groomed into position.

...which makes it sound like that you think DmC Dante's hair changing isn't significant because it doesn't look like the classic Dante's hair.

I'm sorry if I flew off the handle there, but that's honestly what it sounded like to me, which was just insane to see coming from you.

I'M reaching? Because every person in the world complains about how church drags on forever (even though most people don't go to church anymore)? And we're just going to ignore that DMC4 Dante and Nero literally couldn't give a s.hit about church? You need a reality check, sorry to say.

You're attributing a joke that literally anyone with DmC Dante's personality would make in that similar situation. Being forced to escape through an extending church trying to kill you, and then brushing off the danger by making a joke about how boring and long church is. Get it! BECAUSE THE CHURCH KEPT GETTING LONGER! ROFLMAO~ (I hope you can tell that was sarcasm :ermm

How is that possibly a slight on DMC4? How is it a even a reference to DMC4? Oh man! He made a lame joke about church! There was a church scene in DMC4. Four comes after three. Three? - HALF LIFE 3 CONFIRMED!

Yes, because it's so hard to find a way to make it seem like that. Ninja Theory has been taking jabs at DMC when not working on DmC, too, and yet, you think it's a stretch to see that NT is taking the **** out of the DMC games? Like, Tameem just literally takes jabs at it, but NO, DmC is totally blameless, right?

You're gonna have to show me all these horrible jabs at DMC's expence (and no, not the wig or some sh!t about gay cowboys) before I believe that.

I seem to remember Ninja Theory and Tameem actually having mentioned how much they respect DMC. Whether that's just kissing up to Capcom, I dunno, but...I haven't seen a multitude of jabs. Just people trying to take things said out of context to make it seem like it.

Only it's kind of a stretch to say Dante cared about humanity in the DMC games. He cared about helping people if they were in the same sort of predicament as he was, but he never really cared about humans that much, from what I can tell. Yeah, he saves people in DMC4 from Sanctus, but he doesn't seem to do it out of humanity, he just does it so that people won't think he's a bad guy. I'm sure you want the DMC games to be more like DMC1, but they aren't. Dante is not the same Dante in DMC2, 3 and 4 as he is in DMC1.

I suppose that is sorta true. It's not exactly a tie to humans, it's out of respect for people, be they human or demon, considering all the evil humans he's put down. I guess what I mean to say is compassion, which is very important for Dante's character, as it's supposedly the one thing demons lack, and it's what he gained from his human side, and is also what humans who become evil apparently give up.

I don't know why you're insinuating that I wanted all of the games to be more like DMC1 though...where is that coming from :/ Don't put words in my mouth, pwease.

That's ******* laughable. Yeah, so they just happened to use a fairly offensive picture (not that gay people are offensive)? It's just that they could've taken Clint Eastwood or something for it, right? But guess what? They didn't do that. They also showed pictures of emo guys along with the text: Dante is not/Dante is in large writing.

Sure, let's go through 'em! Keep in mind they also were talking about how there was a difference between Japan's idea of occidental style and how we Westerners usually think of our own style. DMC has always had a more western feel to it, but it's still hasn't quite truly been actually Western. This is all supposed to be prefaced with talking about their intentions with DmC Dante, too. They aren't denying what the classic Dante is, just how DmC Dante is, so whenever it says "Dante is not" it should be taken as "DmC Dante is not."

Since Dante is regarded as the hero of the series (he saves people, after all); Dante is not a hero in the normal sense of wearing some sort of iconic costume. Dante is an average guy with extraordinary powers, whether he uses them for good, evil, or nothing at all is really up to him.

Dante is not supposed to be visually appealing or striking in the kind of dress or musical influence he has. Dante is very much your average guy on the street, not dressed up for some sort of show, just coming as he is.

Given Dante's gothic/horror-inspired roots; Dante is not a person who would dress lavishly in any sort of fancy gothic attire. Dante is a guy who is just wearing what normal people wear, average clothes like t-shirts and hooded outerwear.

Dante's classic style, while cool in its own right, does not work well when he's placed in the contemporary, Western setting they were going for to make DmC Dante the everyman on the street.

Ditto for this image. Dante's slick style doesn't fit in with the everyman ranch workers he's depicted with. The fact that they happen to be from a movie about how two men find love in each other is really beside the point.

We could also point out that to find the image of Dante with "two gay cowboys" as offensive is to have some sort of insecurity about homosexuality, because if one didn't find it offensive, it would really mean they do not find the character's sexual preferences to be pertinent to the matter. Could they have used any other cowboy? Sure, but what was the last cowboy movie that wasn't about a larger-than-life gunslinger? The point of the image was to place Dante next to salt-of-the-earth Western workers, and you'd be hard-pressed to find one as Western as a legitimate ranch hand - those are VERY Western. Much in the same way rice paddy workers are very Oriental.

Now I'm wondering if we have rice paddies here in the States...hrrrmmm...

Yeah, no chance this is meant to be offensive, or comes across as offensive, right? :/

Really only if you take it out of context and get oversensitive about it...

Tameem has been disrespectful a few times, but he's supposed to be totally blameless on this? He just reverts to a more decent guy all of a sudden? This is ridiculous.

You're gonna have to cite your sources of him being disrespectful man, because I haven't seen a whole lot of that.

I would still love to point out something I've said before of the entire idea of two whole companies somehow being perfectly fine with insulting those they want to consume their product. Honestly, what's more logical in the real world; that two companies (one of them publicly traded) had fun trolling their consumers for three years, or that consumer groups were getting bent out of shape over small, innocuous things they perceived to be insulting...?

I'd have to go with the latter, considering I live in the real world and I understand how business works...

 

[Bazilican]

The internet is not the world. However, if the internet is the whole world to some people, then they need to go outside. Starting a real life flame war would get someone a punch in the face. :/It's just as well we can't send real punches over the internet...

True, but whatever. I admit I went a little too far with doing this, so that was bad on my part.

 

[Bazilican]

Why I think the answer to the topic has been given clearly:

Tameem has been disrespectful towards the old DMCs, the game seems to be too, slightly (church joke, as well). Then there's the slides on Famitsu that show Ninja Theory (or whoever else) think their own opinion is the only right one - Dante vs Fight Club, with Fight Club saying ''cool'' and ''stylish'', implying the old DMCs were not. Tameem saying he doesn't give a s.hit about what people think of their game, etc etc. Yeah, it's not that odd to see NT getting criticized.

You didn't retain a damn thing.

 

[Loopy]

Why I think the answer to the topic has been given clearly:

Tameem has been disrespectful towards the old DMCs, the game seems to be too, slightly (church joke, as well). Then there's the slides on Famitsu that show Ninja Theory (or whoever else) think their own opinion is the only right one - Dante vs Fight Club, with Fight Club saying ''cool'' and ''stylish'', implying the old DMCs were not. Tameem saying he doesn't give a s.hit about what people think of their game, etc etc. Yeah, it's not that odd to see NT getting criticized.

Well, it shouldn't be odd to see Tameem getting the heat for this. But the whole of NT shouldn't be flamed for the bad PR of one guy, or two if you count Alex Jones, even though he's with Capcom; and certainly Capcom should be given some sort of blame for this too because it was their idea to outsource DMC to NT to get a new take on the game. The also heavily supervised the combat and other aspects of the game.

 

[Lionheart]

Well, it shouldn't be odd to see Tameem getting the heat for this. But the whole of NT shouldn't be flamed for the bad PR of one guy, or two if you count Alex Jones, even though he's with Capcom; and certainly Capcom should be given some sort of blame for this too because it was their idea to outsource DMC to NT to get a new take on the game. The also heavily supervised the combat and other aspects of the game.

No, you're absolutely right about that. It's just that Tameem acts as figurehead for his company, like a president does for his/her country, as stupid as that may sound. His behavior has an impact on people's overall views on the entire company. I actually blame Capcom most for some things, like indeed the whole idea to 'westernize DMC'. NT hasn't done much wrong; it's Capcom that's effing up its franchises. The topic question needed answering, so I tried to answer it. Just sad that people start calling my views idiotic when I've explained them clearly and they weren't rebutted.

 

[Loopy]

No, you're absolutely right about that. It's just that Tameem acts as figurehead for his company, like a president does for his/her country, as stupid as that may sound. His behavior has an impact on the overall views on the entire company. I actually blame Capcom most for some things, like indeed the whole idea to 'westernize DMC'. But the topic question needed answering, so I tried to answer it.

I agree that he gave a bad image and certainly angered a lot of people. So I hope that if there is a next time, he'll tone it down. I can't decide though if he realised what he was saying was actually putting people off and angering them, or maybe he has a bad way with words?

As for me, all I was bothered about was playing the game. I didn't really pay much attention to the PR except for demo videos.

 

[OppressedWriter]

[q

about his hair growth

So, see DmC2 he'd probably look like that DMC3 costume,

 

[TWOxACROSS]

I'm still just astounded that we're having a debate on what seems to be whether hair can grow or not...

Sh!t dawg, in Advent Children, Tifa's hair is shorter, it must not be the same Tifa from the game!

 

[OppressedWriter]

I'm still just astounded that we're having a debate on what seems to be whether hair can grow or not...

Sh!t dawg, in Advent Children, Tifa's hair is shorter, it must not be the same Tifa from the game!

Yeah, me two.

 

[Lionheart]

I'm still just astounded that we're having a debate on what seems to be whether hair can grow or not...

Sh!t dawg, in Advent Children, Tifa's hair is shorter, it must not be the same Tifa from the game!

The point was that DmC is not the same as DMC. I think the hair will remain short, since the whole point of the reboot was to change Devil May Cry up. If they decided to change new Dante into old Dante (physically), that would negate all the work they've done to create a new, original physical version of him. The smoking, thin version of Dante in the old trailers would've been made for naught too, along with this Dante. And with that, I'm off.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

Not...really...

 

[OppressedWriter]

see image below

 

[Lionheart]

Not...really...

Well, yes it would. Didn't they want to reboot DMC and 'westernize' it, including the characters? Then why would they change Dante into his old anime-like self (physically) after the first DmC? I can't stop responding

 

[OppressedWriter]

Well, yes it would. Didn't they want to reboot DMC and 'westernize' it, including the characters? Then why would they change Dante into his old Japanese anime-like self (physically) after the first DmC?

You're answering your own question, because they just modernized it, no one hates Japanese anime at ninja theory. They're going to do that again, because likes lots of DMC fans they probably also think its cool, ie their original designs for Dante were closer to the original.

DmC is the cowboy bebop of the DMC series in terms of style.

 

[Loopy]

Well, yes it would. Didn't they want to reboot DMC and 'westernize' it, including the characters? Then why would they change Dante into his old anime-like self (physically) after the first DmC? I can't stop responding

It would kind of be like going full circle. Almost like Capcom taking back DmC2 and making it themselves with the Japanese image of Western cool.

 

[Lionheart]

You're answering your own question, because they just modernized it, no one hates Japanese anime at ninja theory. They're going to do that again, because likes lots of DMC fans they probably also think its cool, ie their original designs for Dante were closer to the original.

But the slides on Famitsu indicate that they (whether that's Capcom or NT) did not like the original version of Dante. They want to get closer to Fight Club instead of 'emo/goth' and 'eighties rocker' types of things. They even said ''what was cool then isn't cool now'', so I don't get it. They don't think it's cool, and yet they'll go back to a DMC3/DMC1 look? :/

 

[OppressedWriter]

But the slides on Famitsu indicate that they (whether that's Capcom or NT) did not like the original version of Dante. They want to get closer to Fight Club instead of 'emo/goth' and 'eighties rocker' types of things. They even said ''what was cool then isn't cool now'', so I don't get it. They don't think it's cool, and yet they'll go back to a DMC3/DMC1 look? :/

But his hair growing out does not mean that he will become an eighties rocker and emo/goth??? And when was japanese anime only aobut eighties rockers and emo/goth?

 

[Lionheart]

But his hair growing out does not mean that he will become an eighties rocker and emo/goth??? And when was japanese anime only aobut eighters rockers and emo/goth?

No, but these are their words (or at least their views).

http://www.famitsu.com/images/000/031/133/51556bb28e407.html
In those pictures, old Dante is compared to emos, and even the eighties rockers are explicitly in there.

Once his hair is grown out like the original Dante, and he has that red coat again, doesn't he look incredibly much like the old Dante, from say DMC1? He even already has that outfit in DmC.

 

[Loopy]

But the slides on Famitsu indicate that they (whether that's Capcom or NT) did not like the original version of Dante. They want to get closer to Fight Club instead of 'emo/goth' and 'eighties rocker' types of things. They even said ''what was cool then isn't cool now'', so I don't get it. They don't think it's cool, and yet they'll go back to a DMC3/DMC1 look? :/

Who knows...they say a lot of things. Maybe they don't even know themselves what they wanted to do. You're right that on one hand, they do talk about Figh Club and punks, and yes, Dante has that kind of rebellion about him, that kind of fashion, but it does seem that by the end of the game, they're wanting to go in a more classic DMC direction with regards to the hair colour. I think they were aiming for that anyway with it being an origin story. But, I don't think his personality would turn into DMC3 or MDC1, well, not exactly like that anyway. Plus, DmC Dante doesn't have the red coat yet, or the exact hairstyle of any of the classic Dantes.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

Well, yes it would. Didn't they want to reboot DMC and 'westernize' it, including the characters? Then why would they change Dante into his old Japanese anime-like self (physically) after the first DmC?

It's fairly easy to give Dante something like the classic hair and still retain the Western look. Hell, I'm sure OppWri could whip up a skin of the Standard Dante with DMC3 Dante hair. Everything that is the Westernization of DmC is not comprised solely in his hair, even though the game is supposed to be different, it takes many cues from the original series for purpose, especially for the character's personality, and given a nice dynamic character progression for Dante to go from selfish jerk to selfless hero.

Things like personality are not strictly "Japanese anime-like" that can't be attributed to this version.

Honestly, it's like you're trying to say something like Nolan's Dark Knight trilogy became useless by having Bruce Wayne turn into Batman after all the effort they went through to give the movies are darker, grittier, more realistic feel. All black suit or gray with a blue cowl, Batman is still Batman, no matter what's changed about the world.

It doesn't matter how much like DmC Dante becomes. He's still a Dante, he's still the demon hunting badass. DmC was a different universe, but it gives us a very recognizable hero (by the end). Remember that many of the game's intentional changes were also gameplay, and not story-based.

And with that, I'm off.

Not really :troll: