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Why does Ninja Theory get all the bullsh*t?

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Bazilican

Beer and big tits all around! XD
No, seriously, why does NT get all this crap from fans?

Ninja Theory are a young development group who just got finished with DmC and is working on another game now. But yet it feels like everyone can't seen to shut up and let go the fact that DmC came, it's done, move on. It sucks that NT has to deal with all the continual hate and angry fans talking smack about their new game all because DmC ruffled their jimmies.

"Oh! Tam Tam talked bad about Dante!"

grow the f*ck up. Just because he talked about your clowny anime hero doesn't mean he's the first and he certainly won't be the last.Dante is a dime a dozen in cool characters, so if you don't like people making fun of your character, then ignore it and walk away.

Also what he even said wasn't even insulting. "The Dante that was cool back then isn't cool now" come on people. Is that really what you call an insult? If it were me, I'd have said "The Dante back then was a joke, and was losing any form of coolness he had" But I guess anyone who talks smack about old Dante will be met with sh*t and sarcasm. (Especially here)

NT were given the job to do DmC and followed the orders of Capcom to the note. Everything NT did was instructed by Capcom and you can't hate them just for doing their job, and you can't hate Tameen just because he talked about your favorite character Old Dante. If so then you're gonna hate me for a long time.

All in all, I think NT did what they needed to do and did a pretty good job on it. I just don't think NT should get the full brutal assault of hate while Capcom is sitting on an, at worst, rock cushioned bed.
 

Jak

i like turtles
Supporter 2014
the same way joel schumacher is hated for batman and robin and bryan singer hated for superman returns. whoever in charge, the fan base will hate because their name is biggest and first thing that is associated with the product
 

Loopy

Devil hunter in training
I guess for a number of reasons:
  • Any company that rebooted DMC was going to get some kind of reaction.
  • Some people were upset by the PR done by Tameem and Alex.
  • Maybe DmC was just too different for some people.
  • Blaming NT is a lot easier than putting any blame on Capcom, even though Capcom asked for this and supervised very closely.
 

SugarMoon

It's One on One.
That's what happens when you do messed up PR events. They didn't handle that too well and even though all they said was that Dante wasn't cool anymore, people are gonna take that wrong way regardless of how bad it didn't sound. That's how hardcore fans are. And once you f*** up, they will not forget.

You also have to remember, there's a good chance that some didn't even know who Ninja Theory was before DmC was announced. It doesn't make a good first impression when a small time company parades around thinking they know what's cool and what's not. Especially when they didn't have that many great titles under their belt to begin with. It might've came off as arrogant.

Granted that was mostly Tameem's and Alex's fault. NT as a whole though is a talented upcoming company and it sucks that they have to go through that crap because of how some people handled the PR. *Sigh* but what can ya do?
 

Loopy

Devil hunter in training
Don't forget, Alex Jones is from Capcom :x
I kind of forget that with the amout of times I've seen him doing PR with Tameem. I honestly don't know why they picked him. I'm sure he meant well, but it's like he accidentally put his foot in his mouth almost every time he spoke regarding DmC. Especially at the TGS, he was like a bunny in the headlights. They should have sent someone who spoke Japanese>_<
 

TWOxACROSS

Hot-blooded God of Guns
Premium
How exactly did Alex Jones put his foot in his mouth, anyway? I don't remember him doing...much of anything significant other than confirming that SSSensational.gif was fixed :p

I'm not sure why they picked him do tag along with Tameem. I don't even remember his position >.< He's like...something something of the Capcom US branch >.<
 

Loopy

Devil hunter in training
How exactly did Alex Jones put his foot in his mouth, anyway? I don't remember him doing...much of anything significant other than confirming that SSSensational.gif was fixed :p

I'm not sure why they picked him do tag along with Tameem. I don't even remember his position >_< He's like...something something of the Capcom US branch >_<
I thought he was the guy who got confused between the game being a reboot, the prequel to DMC3, or the 'retelling'.:/
 

Dante's Stalker

"Outrun this!"
Premium
Supporter 2014
No, seriously, why does NT get all this crap from fans?

In case you haven't noticed, Capcom don't do well with listening to the fans. Maybe there will be a break-through with NT if the fanbase let's them hear it. Or not.
There is room for improvement. If NT would do the rest of the fanbase who aren't tantruming and issuing death threats a favour, and hear what the fans have to say and listen to what isn't being said, they may have a comeback DmC game that will pacify the cry-babies.

Then you my friend have a sh*tty dime.

That's uncalled for. If you want to go down this route of flaming old Dante, don't even think about hitting report when I start letting rip on 'new' Dante.

I thought he was the guy who got confused between the game being a reboot, the prequel to DMC3, or the 'retelling'.:/

There actually is no confusion. It's a retelling of Dante's origins as far as story/characters are concerned and it was obviously taking a lot of cues from DMC3. Why was Vergil trying to gain more power, what happened to him, bla bla bla, all the same old questions, only now we have a better understanding as to how he became so power hungry. Oh, and we were given a reason as to why he went the route he did, which was all white space in DMC3.
So it's not 'canon' with the old series, and it never will be, it's still the same franchise. The characters are a bit different appearance wise, and they could have done with a better Dante VA, but...yeah... I don't really feel like doing a comparison of DmC and DMC3 right now *has work to do*
But basically, it is a prequel to DMC3, because I for one can connect the dots between the two. (And if requested, I can come show you guys whenever I get the chance)
It is a retelling of Dante's origins - which goes further back than him simply setting up shop, but far along enough to get to the core of his and Vergil's fallout.
It's a reboot. Because Capcom decided they want it to be more Western. They could have pulled this off in the original series if they hadn't made the choice to change up the style and feel. That's a tragic fact.
 

Bazilican

Beer and big tits all around! XD
In case you haven't noticed, Capcom don't do well with listening to the fans. Maybe there will be a break-through with NT if the fanbase let's them hear it. Or not.
There is room for improvement. If NT would do the rest of the fanbase who aren't tantruming and issuing death threats a favour, and hear what the fans have to say and listen to what isn't being said, they may have a comeback DmC game that will pacify the cry-babies.

Isn't that what NT actually did? Fans didn't like 2010 Dante, they changed him up and made him more healthier. SSS glitch, fixed. That whole patch of the game with Vergil's downfall to fix a few of those glitches.

That's uncalled for. If you want to go down this route of flaming old Dante, don't even think about hitting report when I start letting rip on 'new' Dante.

.

Go ahead. I don't care about crappy new Donte either just so you know. I just think NT shouldn't get sh*t on for Capcom's decision.
 

Shin Muramasa

Metallic Stranger
Well, let's recap - no pun intended. Devil May Cry is not a franchise that sells like hotcakes. No, it's more in line with popular but not so popular games. I guess Dragon Quest or the Tales series could be similar franchises to DMC than the infamous Call of Duty, Battlefield, Assassin's Creed, and Grand Theft Auto which sold like a billion copies in one week. That said, the series sells and people like the series except for DMC2 which had flawed gameplay but began the control scheme later DMCs would use and DMC4 for the sole reason of Nero and the story being focused on him and not Dante - kind of like why some don't like Metal Gear Solid 2. Capcom really wanted to make big sales across all their franchises even though some of them don't sell as much since the fan-base was already small to begin with or because the interest was dying out like with Street Fighter and Devil May Cry. Shooters became the main and over-saturated focus of the generation. Capcom only had one "shooter" and that was Resident Evil. So, Lost Planet was created, but it kind of went from cool idea to Monster Hunter with guns, to generic shooter - I would have liked the latter two. Resident Evil 6, I think, set an awesome control scheme, but it was more "off" compared to Resident 4, which many felt that RE games should continue like rather than what RE5 and RE6 did. Basically, it went from survival-horror, to survival-horror where players have a greater means to survive, survival-horror shooter, to survival-horror shooter, generic shooter, and weird, but cool melee game all combined. Capcom's focus on DLC and DLC business practices weren't helping fans' views on the company.

So, after 2 years, Capcom announces a new DMC game with a black-haired, gaunt, violent, smoking Dante and Ninja Theory's name was on the project. First, there was backlash on the design of the so-called Dante. Theories ranged from Dante being in hell and in a coma - continuing off of DMC2 -, to Dante being in some nightmare-induced world, a fake Dante, and other wild theories. Here's the thing that went of before DmC: Devil May Cry was announced. Capcom sought developers who could tell good stories and considering Ninja Theory's track record, they picked them, even though past games from NT were written by third-party writers. Capcom was also going through a "westernization" phase to appeal to the larger consumer-base in the North Americas, Europe, and Australia. Capcom wanted to westernize DMC and to use DmC as a fresh start. Ninja Theory, however, researched and understood what Devil May Cry was about, they wanted to continue what Devil May Cry did and add a more engaging story. Hell, most of the concept art they released had DmC Dante looking like DMC Dante; white hair, lots of red, leather, and no smoking but with twists to tie into today's fashion and ideas; the punk look, rebels, disenfranchisement, etc. Capcom wanted none of that, they wanted something extreme and unfamiliar. Ninja Theory complied and created the black-haired, more twisted, and violent Dante of TGS 2010. Both knew that there would be strong reactions.

So here we are, with NT and Capcom receiving tons of backlash, and their public relations confused, agitated, and frustrated by fans. DmC was described as an origin story, a prequel, and a reboot. Nobody knew what the hell it was until now; DmC is a reboot of the DMC franchise. It is an origin story as DMC3 was an origin story. DmC and DMC3 tells us who Dante, Vergil, Mundus, Sparda, and Eva are, what they did, and what made them who they are. DmC is a prequel, why, well if DmC2 comes out, then it'll be a prequel to DmC2.

Ninja Theory's track record is laden with glitches, simple combat, great art, atmosphere, and games with good stories before DmC. That made tons of fans worried that DmC would just be all show and no game. What wasn't said was that Capcom basically handled the combat and Ninja Theory handled the graphics, script, music score, etc. NT might have even been "mentored" by Capcom's combat developers and basically the mentors would tell them to do this and NT's employees would and learn from it. Another issue was their choice of the Unreal Engine 3, which can do dynamic terrain, but heavily taxes any current-gen system. MT Framework on the other hand, has been shown to be able to do high-speed combat and some dynamic terrain. The 30 FPS lock worried fans even more except for PC fans who found out that they would have an unlocked FPS counter.

So, fans were already worried by Ninja Theory, the developer chosen for DmC, a developer not known for good combat, and the PR. Tameem was obviously upset and dogged by angry fans. He has his own limit as does everyone else. What he isn't is a PR person. He's just another developer at NT. Bad move on being one of the PR crew. They should have hired someone else or had someone who understands Tameem and could translate and filter what he was saying. David Cage, anyone? Good developer, good ideas, bad way in how he puts his ideas and opinions out. Cage at times makes it seem that nobody, but his studio has done games that are emotional and thought provoking. Tameem and NT have good ideas, but the way he says some things angered people along with confusing them.

When he referred to DMC Dante not being cool now, but cool back then, it's true. Fashion changes throughout the ages. If it didn't then we'd all be wearing robes, tunics, tights, and other old, crappy, uncomfortable clothing. Fashion in the past decade is different than fashion in the 80's, 70's, 60's, and 50's. DMC Dante is cool; his design was based on what was cool in the 90's and 00's. Fashion changed and DmC Dante sort of fits what would be normal or cool in the 10's. Actually DmC Vergil would be more fashionable and DmC Dante is basically a poor man wearing whatever he can get. Leather jackets were cool back then. Still cool, but not as prominent as hoodies which DmC Dante and Kat wear and "hipster" clothing which DmC Vergil wears. What Tameem said sounded like, "DMC Dante's a loser". Sure, would you have a drink with someone in leather chaps, long, red coat, and fingerless gloves who is flamboyant, a little crazy, and dramatic? It'd be kind of strange even back then. But DMC is over-the-top. DmC is more grounded and you would still not want to have a drink with some wannabe punk, rebel, homeless guy with anger, identity, social issues.

At the same time, fans especially the more outspoken ones basically labeled DmC Dante as a drug addict, loser, and a pile of crap. To Ninja Theory, or any developer in particular, that is an insult. Instead, fans should have offered criticism and asked for changes rather than just spewing out angry opinions. inFAMOUS 2 had Cole with a full-head of hair which made him look like Nathan Drake, random tattoos, and all black clothing. Was there outrage? Yes, but fans asked, although angrily, for Cole to look like his old self from inFAMOUS 1. Y'know, fans could have just said, "NT, could you make Dante a little more muscular?", "NT, I don't like that Dante smokes, it's not part of what makes him cool", "NT, I'd like a longer coat, please." Same thing is sort of happening with Metal Gear Solid V where some people are just saying that Quiet looks like a ***** instead of asking why the hell she looks like this or something else than labeling and harsh opinions. People could have just said, "I don't like ____'s design", instead of saying "_____'s design is disgusting".

Long story short, Capcom didn't say anything about who's doing what and what part they had in Dante's design. The PR wasn't able to tell fans information without confusing them or angering them. Fans's outrage made it worse and basically Tameem snapped and stopped trying to be the nice guy. So, it's not just NT's fault, it's everyone's fault. But people just like to pick on the more outspoken ones, Tameem of NT who represented Ninja Theory and the fans. Capcom, you sly devil, keeping your mouth shut so little to no blame is directed to you.

Also, I'd like to say that Greg aka Gregaman did much more to tell people what DmC: Devil May Cry is than the trailers, articles, and PR did. Combat was the main focus and he basically showed us the combat: the thing fans really wanted to know.
 

TWOxACROSS

Hot-blooded God of Guns
Premium
Hrrmmm...I always thought of "niche" as below popular, while something like Godhand is cult hit. Niche is like something people tend to like, but just doesn't get a great amount of exposure, while a cult hit is something that gets no exposure, but its small fanbase is highly devoted.

I suppose "niche" and "cult hit" are pretty much interchangeable though >.<
 

Pale Rider

Wickedly good
So much love for NT.

"Omg! TAMEEM IS A HUMAN BEING. He has his limits."

"Sheesh, people! It was Tameem's opinion on Dante. You shouldn't take insult to that."

I'm just waiting for the day when Obama starts speaking like a wannabe gangsta. Then we may say he snapped and reached his limits.

"With great power, comes great responsibility." Tameem should have acted better. Considering how his studio is related to mediocre games(another concern for some fans) at best, he came off as smug and arrogant, even if he didn't mean to. Rebooting a series that didn't need rebooting was already a "sensitive"( can't think of any other word) step and the way things were handled, the situation just got worse.

Lastly, for knowledge, expressing not-so-favourable comments for DmC is "stupid butthurt thing" and "you haven't played DmC thing" here.
 
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