Why does Ninja Theory get all the bullsh*t?

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Gotta wonder...did you actually read the articles those phrases you hate him for came from? Because it sure sounds a lot like you just parroted some other stuff you heard around the 'net without looking at the sources.

What he actually said was "So far it's the DMC fans who have been vociferous about not wanting to play it. [Laughs] It's the people who haven't been interested in DMC since the first ones who are starting to get interested. But I'm not a marketeer. Philosophically, the way to make a successful game is to believe in what you're doing, then hope that sales follow. I'm not trying to design around what I think people will want. That's where you get into creative bankruptcy. That, more than anything, will kill a series."

It's also very true, if you just did what everyone wanted, you'd end up with something rather shallow and devoid of charm. No new ground would ever be broken, no innovation would ever take place. This is the exact situation the gaming industry is in right now, where developers go with what's "safe," and exactly what people want, so that they can keep the profits high. It's why this current generation is inundated by FPS Call of Duty clones. It's why some aging franchises that had nothing to do with shooters became shooters.

There's no real implication that listening to fans would lead to creative bankruptcy. His answer wasn't even in regard to listening to fans, it was about what he thought when people said "Only DMC fans will like this, you're not going to win a new audience."

He actually said "The people who are skeptical secretly want to like it. And our job is to prove it's Devil May Cry in essence."

Was that not true...did you guys not want to like the new game in the DMC franchise? Did you not hope that everything would turn out alright and the game would be something to like? What he essentially said was that despite how upset it makes people, they want it to turn out well, to play like a DMC game and be as good as they want it to be.

There's no "Oh yeah, they hate it but they really want it," it's just "We know you're worried and want it to actually be worth the drastic changes."

I mean, the biggest concern back in 2010 when it was announced was really, if the game looks like this, will it still play like it used to.

On that subject, would people have been okay with DmC if it ended up with such similar mechanics that it was almost a re-skin if DMC3, but with a different story and look?

This is old hat by now. Feeling upset about it by removing all context is your own fault :/ DMC was made using a lot of things that were popular at the time, and the classic Dante's style is not something that fits with the DmC Dante "everyman" concept, like...at all.

Oh c'mon...that joke was a general jab at the state of the gaming industry where DLC has become a necessity.

Not to mention DLC is totally also Capcom's decision to implement. In an era where DLC being required to make a game feel complete, getting it for free is the next best thing to actually having everything on the disc without a paywall.

So finding light of a situation where people wished for his destitution and even death over doing his job is something to hate him over, too? Wow...

Taking more stuff out of context, since when he said that he wasn't talking about Trish in particular. In fact, Trish was never even mentioned in that entire article - just the words "big tits," which came from the interviewer. It was an overall discussion about how NT wrote female characters that weren't there to just be eye-candy or sexually provocative (because that's just boring), and how Tameem felt gamers liked female characters with more substance to them, over the ones that were basically "prostitutes with guns."

It's really DMC's own fault for utilizing the old femme fatale shtick with like 75% of its female leads. Not that it's a bad thing, DMC was always really about the campy style, and the femme fatale shtick was as much a part of it as Dante's dorky action hero moments.

Learn to take a narrative-related joke for what it is, instead of trying to add in some extra layer of insult to it.

Man, it's like those parents who crusaded against rock music because they swore they heard satanic stuff on songs played in reverse...

That's not even Tameem...is Tim Phillips' own antics now all Tameem's responsibility? He was in character~ Granted Tameem is the director of DmC, but...after all the sh!t Ninja Theory went through, it's pretty much carte blanche for them to give the middle finger to all the people who spewed all that vitriol.

Once again, totally out of context. "From my point of view there's only one way to try and make a successful game, and that's to make the game you want to play. A game that everyone involved is proud of. So from that point of view I don't care if it sells a thousand units or two million units. I believe the time you spend making something has to be worthwhile. You've got 20 productive years of work in your life; if you're gonna spend ten or 15 percent of it on something, make it worthwhile."

Tameem was asked what he thought about people saying it wouldn't sell 5 million units, and he was talking about not worrying about the sales, and making what you set out to make in the first place. If you make too many compromises with your project to adhere to just what sells well, then you're not being true to your original concept, and it goes right back into the creative bankruptcy thing, where you're just playing it safe.

I'm pretty sure all those indie developers out there sure cared about making a game that sold millions of units too. No? Yeah, they made games because they put their hearts into them, and they wanted to make something they would be proud of.

I can easily relate to that. I'm not writing for the money, I'm writing to give people some entertaining stories.

Sorry you don't like my attitude, IncaDemo, but it's not like a relish trying to prove you wrong or something, it just happens that you say a lot of things that I either don't believe or I know aren't right.

Welp! I'm out. It's time for me to catch some shut-eye.​
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What he actually said was "So far it's the DMC fans who have been vociferous about not wanting to play it. [Laughs] It's the people who haven't been interested in DMC since the first ones who are starting to get interested. But I'm not a marketeer. Philosophically, the way to make a successful game is to believe in what you're doing, then hope that sales follow. I'm not trying to design around what I think people will want. That's where you get into creative bankruptcy. That, more than anything, will kill a series."

That's pretty much the same thing, only put into different words. Although I admit he doesn't say he won't listen to people at all. There should be a balance between what you want as a developer and what the consumers want. Not necessarily 50/50, maybe dev 70 fans 30, or 80/20.

He actually said "The people who are skeptical secretly want to like it. And our job is to prove it's Devil May Cry in essence."

That's still pretty arrogant in my book, even though he's not referring to the fans. You can't expect everyone to like everything you produce. Anyway, not important. We know Tameem is sort of an ass sometimes.

Was that not true...did you guys not want to like the new game in the DMC franchise?

DmC is not part of the DMC series, that's why it's called DmC: Devil May Cry, not just Devil May Cry or Devil May Cry 5.

This is old hat by now. Feeling upset about it by removing all context is your own fault :/ DMC was made using a lot of things that were popular at the time, and the classic Dante's style is not something that fits with the DmC Dante "everyman" concept, like...at all.

I agree that DMC Dante wouldn't fit with the DmC concept, but that's not what all this was about; it was about Tameem ridiculing old Dante. He didn't need to do that, even if that version of Dante was not what he envisioned for DmC.

So finding light of a situation where people wished for his destitution and even death over doing his job is something to hate him over, too? Wow...

No, it's how he belittles the situation. If he compares DMC vs DmC to Paddington Bear, that's really messed up, and not a laughing matter to me. It just shows he can't take people's feelings seriously, or won't, in any case. He compares it to incredibly childish behavior, which some of the anti-DmC stuff was, but definitely NOT all of it.


Learn to take a narrative-related joke for what it is, instead of trying to add in some extra layer of insult to it.

How can you not see it's a joke that's insulting to fans of the old DMC? If I were to get a wig that resembled your hairstyle, or clothing like yours, and would say 'not in a million years', wouldn't you be sort of offended, too? Or if I saw a car you liked and went ''that's just pure **** with rims''? Just because it's a joke doesn't mean it can't be purposefully insulting.
If anything, they could've made him wear cowboy boots like in DMC4, THEN go 'not in a million years', since most people pretty much agreed the cowboy appearance of Dante in DMC4 was stupid. Instead of that, they chose to ridicule Dante's inherent physical appearance (in this case his hair), which had remained white since DMC1. It was part of his identity, I suppose you could say.

And comparing Dante to two gay cowboys, in a picture, at one of the conventions isn't exactly what I call normal, respectful behavior. People have the right to get upset about that.


I can totally agree with the rest of your post.
 
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Unknown appealed with THRASH!

The judge looked at Unknown expectantly!

Unknown didn't stand out very much...
Unknown's cuteness didn't go over well here...

:troll:

Actually, this is a very good example of a joke that can be quite offensive to the person joked about. Which is why I don't usually make jokes like these.
 
I don't think huge uproar back then was just about hair. Dante's white hair is...errhh.. I mean, was iconic. It defined his character, his demonic heritage. It wasn't hair, but one of his character trait that people were actually referring to, but media just bundled them together as "immature crybabies", and a lot of people use this to their advantage. Every now and then. Still, there's this joke: No white hair = No Dante = No DMC.

It's underwhelming of some "mature" people to overlook this simple thing.
 
I don't think huge uproar back then was just about hair. Dante's white hair is...errhh.. I mean, was iconic. It defined his character, his demonic heritage. It wasn't hair, but one of his character trait that people were actually referring to, but media just bundled them together as "immature crybabies", and a lot of people use this to their advantage. Every now and then. Still, there's this joke: No white hair = No Dante = No DMC.

It's underwhelming of some "mature" people to look over this simple thing.


Yeah, I don't think people actually had many issues with Dante's change in hair color as much as they did with NT jokingly saying the old Dante was s.hit, at least when it came to his hairdo. The wig joke was a way to distance themselves from the old Dante by saying his appearance was terrible. I actually wouldn't care if his hair were fiery red - it's all the things around it that matter. Since then, saying all fans' issues are with Dante's hair color has been a way to deprecate DMC fans by throwing them all on one heap. Of course, the fanbase isn't as bad as the worst people in it; there's all kinds of people in it. Many people on this forum have said they prefer the old Dante, but they couldn't care less about his hair color.

And like you said, the white hair is important in the original universe. It was a character trait.
I do think DmC really did very well in signifying a change in Dante as he goes from 'human form' to nephilim (black hair to bleach blond). It's analogous to what DMC did when Dante transformed into Devil Trigger and got a devil body. That said, I prefer the devil form.
 
Yeah, I don't think people actually had many issues with Dante's change in hair color, as much as they did with NT jokingly saying the old Dante was s.hit, at least when it came to his hairdo. The wig joke was a way to distance themselves from the old Dante by saying his appearance was terrible. I actually wouldn't care if his hair were fiery red - it's all the things around it that matter. Since then, saying all fans' issues are with Dante's hair color has been a way to deprecate DMC fans by throwing them all on one heap. Of course, the fanbase isn't as bad as the worst people in it; there's all kinds of people in it. Many people on this forum have said they prefer the old Dante, but they couldn't care less about his hair color.


Underlined part:

..........and when someone corrects them, they go with their usual annoying reply, "But most of the backlash was about hair" or something along the lines.




Edit:

I do think DmC really did very well in
signifying a change in Dante as he goes from
'human form' to nephilim (black hair to bleach
blond). It's analogous to what DMC did when
Dante transformed into Devil Trigger and got a
devil body. That said, I prefer the devil form.

I don't really like DmC's way of telling the change. In fact, I think it's retarded. Sorry if I sound offensive and biased, but it's just the way I look at it.
 
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I think the reason people said it was about the hair is because they don't care about the reason fans are mad. They aren't die hard fans and are on the outside looking in. DmC is another fun game to play and people just think the fanbase is over reacting about the reboot in general but just use the hair issue to sum it all up.

Also tp Lionhart, if someone did that wig joke about me, Id actually be the mature one and laughing it off and taking it like it was; a joke. So they put a wig on him, big deal. At least they didn't kill the original Dante off on screen by ripping his arms off and slashing him to pieces. (Prototype 2)
 
I think the reason people said it was about the hair is because they don't care about the reason fans are mad. They aren't die hard fans and are on the outside looking in. DmC is another fun game to play and people just think the fanbase is over reacting about the reboot in general but just use the hair issue to sum it all up.

Also tp Lionhart, if someone did that wig joke about me, Id actually be the mature one and laughing it off and taking it like it was; a joke. So they put a wig on him, big deal. At least they didn't kill the original Dante off on screen by ripping his arms off and slashing him to pieces. (Prototype 2)


It's not just a joke; I just explained that. Being mature has nothing to do with taking all s.hit said about you. If I don't like what somebody says about me, I just tell them. It's as simple as that. I don't go ''wow, this is pretty offensive, but hey, offend me all you like! It's funny as hell!'' Nobody should put up with that kind of grade school behavior if it's offensive, because you might just be telling them to continue offending you - you haven't drawn the line anywhere, which may lead to worse offense in the future. Parents don't let their children verbally assault people, either, whether it's in the form of a joke or not. I'd make it known in a civil manner that I don't accept that behavior.

And I don't see how you can 'sum up' the feelings of people who dislike DmC by taking the wig joke as an example. Many people have legitimate issues with DmC. I, for one, think the graphics aren't great, the characters are still pretty two-dimensional and annoying, the gameplay isn't as intuitive as it could have been, the writing is ****-poor at some times, and so on and so forth. There's no way to brush that off by saying it was all about the hair, just like you can't brush it off by saying ''ooooh, you just don't like change.'' No offense intended.
 
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As I've repeated over and over about the wig joke...
NT probably could have made that joke seems just a joke if there hadn't been all the flamewar. I mean, you just don't make a joke about something that you know hurts someone. For example,if a friend tells me I'm fat as a joke, I make no big deal of it, we share a laugh and that's it. But I would never say to another friend of mine a similar joke, because I know that specific friend feels horrible when someone tells her that.
So, the joke in itself could have come out as innocuous, and taken lightly (or maturely, as DragonMaster says) if the situation had not been so awful. As it was, it was just a slap in the face of the fans who complained. Maybe those fans exaggerated with their complaints, but still it'n not sensitive at all to joke about something that makes people all riled up.
 
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It's not just a joke; I just explained that. Being mature has nothing to do with taking all s.hit said about you. If I don't like what somebody says about me, I just tell them.

Then people should have told them instead of act like they were hurt deeply. This is a video game character being insulted, not you in general. It's all in good fun, but people take it like it was a stab at them personally.

It's as simple as that. I don't go ''wow, this is pretty offensive, but hey, offend me all you like! It's funny as hell!'' Nobody should put up with that kind of grade school behavior if it's offensive, because you might just be telling them to continue offending you - you haven't drawn the line anywhere, which may lead to worse offense in the future.

No. This is not insulting to me because its not me their insulting in general, and even if it was, why would I get mad for if it was a joke? Why should I care about a simple joke (and a very small one at that) made about me if it was all in good fun? Maybe because I'm more chill then most, but I'd be laughing with everyone else.

Parents don't let their children verbally assault people, either, whether it's in the form of a joke or not. I'd make it known in a civil manner that I don't accept that behavior.

This is a game, not real life so it is not THAT offensive.

And I don't see how you can 'sum up' the feelings of people who dislike DmC by taking the wig joke as an example.

Who said I was? I said the people from the outside looking in sum that up, not me.

Many people have legitimate issues with DmC. I, for one, think the graphics aren't great, the characters are still pretty two-dimensional and annoying, the gameplay isn't as intuitive as it could have been, the writing is ****-poor at some times, and so on and so forth. There's no way to brush that off by saying it was all about the hair, just like you can't brush it off by saying ''ooooh, you just don't like change.'' No offense intended.


I agree with your disagreements, but again, to any other gamer, that still comes back to the hair issue because that was what every other gamer saw from the fanbase when the 2010 trailer came about. Just like how people hold Tameen's words against him, other gamers hold the white hair on the fanbase.
 
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What he actually said was "So far it's the DMC fans who have been vociferous about not wanting to play it. [Laughs] It's the people who haven't been interested in DMC since the first ones who are starting to get interested. But I'm not a marketeer. Philosophically, the way to make a successful game is to believe in what you're doing, then hope that sales follow. I'm not trying to design around what I think people will want. That's where you get into creative bankruptcy. That, more than anything, will kill a series."

It's also very true, if you just did what everyone wanted, you'd end up with something rather shallow and devoid of charm. No new ground would ever be broken, no innovation would ever take place. This is the exact situation the gaming industry is in right now, where developers go with what's "safe," and exactly what people want, so that they can keep the profits high. It's why this current generation is inundated by FPS Call of Duty clones. It's why some aging franchises that had nothing to do with shooters became shooters.

There's no real implication that listening to fans would lead to creative bankruptcy. His answer wasn't even in regard to listening to fans, it was about what he thought when people said "Only DMC fans will like this, you're not going to win a new audience."​
Your right, i am wrong about this.
He actually said "The people who are skeptical secretly want to like it. And our job is to prove it's Devil May Cry in essence."

Was that not true...did you guys not want to like the new game in the DMC franchise? Did you not hope that everything would turn out alright and the game would be something to like? What he essentially said was that despite how upset it makes people, they want it to turn out well, to play like a DMC game and be as good as they want it to be.

There's no "Oh yeah, they hate it but they really want it," it's just "We know you're worried and want it to actually be worth the drastic changes."

I mean, the biggest concern back in 2010 when it was announced was really, if the game looks like this, will it still play like it used to.

On that subject, would people have been okay with DmC if it ended up with such similar mechanics that it was almost a re-skin if DMC3, but with a different story and look?​
No, i did not want to like the reboot. I wanted to like a DMC game, not a DmC.


This is old hat by now. Feeling upset about it by removing all context is your own fault :/ DMC was made using a lot of things that were popular at the time, and the classic Dante's style is not something that fits with the DmC Dante "everyman" concept, like...at all.​
So because original Dante does not fit into a contemporary setting, it means he is outdated and not cool? Tell me do you know that NTDante is inspired by punk movement which was in 1970s? So why is a punk character cool, but a character with influence from stuff in 2001 not cool? Where is the logic in that?

There is no reason to say Dante is outdated and uncool just because he does not fit into a contemporary setting. Dante is cool, and he is not outdated or laughable either.
Makes it even weird that Dante does not fit into a contemporary setting with his white hair and red clothes, when in DmC...there is white hair and most of the typical Dante stuff.







Oh c'mon...that joke was a general jab at the state of the gaming industry where DLC has become a necessity.

Not to mention DLC is totally also Capcom's decision to implement. In an era where DLC being required to make a game feel complete, getting it for free is the next best thing to actually having everything on the disc without a paywall.​
How convenient that you call it a joke when it suites you.
And Capcom made decision to have it a reboot, but Capcom did not tell Tameem to talk about the DLC in the way he did. Or are you going to tell me that it was part of Tameems job to make that comment.

So finding light of a situation where people wished for his destitution and even death over doing his job is something to hate him over, too? Wow...​
Let us put things into perspective. You say "people", do these people represent majority of DMC fans? No.
So why are you pretending like it does?
I believe the maxium serious death threats NT received were less than 5. FIVE...
How many fans did not send death threats? the remaining fans who were hundreds of thousands.

And by the way did you get chance to see the death threats? Care to tell me how the death threats was like?

Taking more stuff out of context, since when he said that he wasn't talking about Trish in particular. In fact, Trish was never even mentioned in that entire article - just the words "big tits," which came from the interviewer. It was an overall discussion about how NT wrote female characters that weren't there to just be eye-candy or sexually provocative (because that's just boring), and how Tameem felt gamers liked female characters with more substance to them, over the ones that were basically "prostitutes with guns."

It's really DMC's own fault for utilizing the old femme fatale shtick with like 75% of its female leads. Not that it's a bad thing, DMC was always really about the campy style, and the femme fatale shtick was as much a part of it as Dante's dorky action hero moments.​

Have you binned all the character archetypes from earlier DMCs? Dare we say it, the massive tits? This question lays out the context
If it's true that the average console gamer is over 30 - which I totally believe - then you can't use those cheap tricks to titillate people into wanting to buy your game. I've nothing against big tits - I'd rather have my head resting on a pair right now - but if you're going to try and stimulate someone on different levels, there's better ways to do it. If you look at the stars in movies, the women people find really attractive are often not the ones with the biggest tits. You've got to be attractive on a different level.
We did that in Enslaved with Trip. People loved her, not because she had big breasts and high heels, but because she felt like someone who could be your girlfriend. That to me is more attractive than a prostitute walking around with a big gun. Not to demean prostitutes - it's a valid form of commerce.

And isn´t it nice of you to talk about Trish as if she´s a empty shell. Did you play DMC 1? Or is it all of sudden a crime for a character to wear sexy clothing?

Learn to take a narrative-related joke for what it is, instead of trying to add in some extra layer of insult to it.

Man, it's like those parents who crusaded against rock music because they swore they heard satanic stuff on songs played in reverse...​
Jokes are meant to be funny.


That's not even Tameem...is Tim Phillips' own antics now all Tameem's responsibility? He was in character~ Granted Tameem is the director of DmC, but...after all the sh!t Ninja Theory went through, it's pretty much carte blanche for them to give the middle finger to all the people who spewed all that vitriol.​
I think that scene is quite fishy. Goes well in line with the wig scene, dont you think...
Anyway i get it, NT showing a finger to fans is justified because of all the vitriol.

Once again, totally out of context. "From my point of view there's only one way to try and make a successful game, and that's to make the game you want to play. A game that everyone involved is proud of. So from that point of view I don't care if it sells a thousand units or two million units. I believe the time you spend making something has to be worthwhile. You've got 20 productive years of work in your life; if you're gonna spend ten or 15 percent of it on something, make it worthwhile."

Tameem was asked what he thought about people saying it wouldn't sell 5 million units, and he was talking about not worrying about the sales, and making what you set out to make in the first place. If you make too many compromises with your project to adhere to just what sells well, then you're not being true to your original concept, and it goes right back into the creative bankruptcy thing, where you're just playing it safe.

I'm pretty sure all those indie developers out there sure cared about making a game that sold millions of units too. No? Yeah, they made games because they put their hearts into them, and they wanted to make something they would be proud of.

I can easily relate to that. I'm not writing for the money, I'm writing to give people some entertaining stories.

Sorry you don't like my attitude, IncaDemo, but it's not like a relish trying to prove you wrong or something, it just happens that you say a lot of things that I either don't believe or I know aren't right.​
It´s strikes me how just because i say "I don´t like apple", somehow people derive the setence "I dont like fruit" out of it.
My point is: I know well why people make what they make out of passion. That is the reason why i like Platinum Games and companies like them.
So save the lecture please?

My point is (and still stands) Tameem is a pretentious prick. It´s easy for him to talk about sales or making the game you want when your making a game for Capcom where your already paid independt of sale outcome.
Also DMC or DmC is not his company´s invention.


Anyway let´s move on the subject , ah yes, Ninja theory is taking all the crap...when in my very first post i clarified that i blame Capcom equally or more than NT for the reboot.
But no...NT is taking all the crap.
 
So because original Dante does not fit into a contemporary setting, it means he is outdated and not cool? Tell me do you know that NTDante is inspired by punk movement which was in 1970s? So why is a punk character cool, but a character with influence from stuff in 2001 not cool? Where is the logic in that?

because out of all the fashions from the past that became popular again, punk was one of them.

There is no reason to say Dante is outdated and uncool just because he does not fit into a contemporary setting. Dante is cool, and he is not outdated or laughable either.

I'd like to see you walk in public with a leather coat, chaps, and a buckled vest with all of it extremely red. Been there, done that.

Makes it even weird that Dante does not fit into a contemporary setting with his white hair and red clothes, when in DmC...there is white hair and most of the typical Dante stuff.

True, but this is also a world where demons are now in the real world so a dude with white hair is the least of the human's concerns.


How convenient that you call it a joke when it suites you.
And Capcom made decision to have it a reboot, but Capcom did not tell Tameem to talk about the DLC in the way he did. Or are you going to tell me that it was part of Tameems job to make that comment.

So people can't take a joke. That's their fault.

Let us put things into perspective. You say "people", do these people represent majority of DMC fans? No.
So why are you pretending like it does?
I believe the maxium serious death threats NT received were less than 5. FIVE...
How many fans did not send death threats? the remaining fans who were hundreds of thousands.

That sure doesn't stop the vast levels of their constant yelling instead of actually giving critisism to ask for things to be in DmC to be more like DMC. But no, they made petitions to stop DmC instead of think logically.

And by the way did you get chance to see the death threats? Care to tell me how the death threats was like?

One was through song, while others were comics.

And isn´t it nice of you to talk about Trish as if she´s a empty shell. Did you play DMC 1? Or is it all of sudden a crime for a character to wear sexy clothing?

Last time I checked, no one said she was. You just brought that up Trish being the target of that comment Tameen made simply because Trish has big boobs, instead of actually looking at that comment in a wider perspective as "Big boobs shouldn't be the only reason to enjoy a female character."


Jokes are meant to be funny.

Exactly
mqdefault.jpg


A joke.


I think that scene is quite fishy. Goes well in line with the wig scene, dont you think...
Anyway i get it, NT showing a finger to fans is justified because of all the vitriol.

If that's what people want to believe it was for.

My point is (and still stands) Tameem is a pretentious prick. It´s easy for him to talk about sales or making the game you want when your making a game for Capcom where your already paid independt of sale outcome.
Also DMC or DmC is not his company´s invention.

True, but he is responsible for making DmC and his company did make DmC with the help of Capcom so he can say whatever. Won't hurt me none. But again, this is just me, not every other fan in the world.

Anyway let´s move on the subject , ah yes, Ninja theory is taking all the crap...when in my very first post i clarified that i blame Capcom equally or more than NT for the reboot.
But no...NT is taking all the crap.


Why not just end it instead of constantly bring it up then?:/
 
So because original Dante does not fit into a contemporary setting, it means he is outdated and not cool? Tell me do you know that NTDante is inspired by punk movement which was in 1970s? So why is a punk character cool, but a character with influence from stuff in 2001 not cool? Where is the logic in that?
Are you asking how is it known that Dante was inspired by 1970s punk?
There's an article here about it:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...-fight-club-and-james-dean-made-the-new-dante
 
I agree with your disagreements, but again, to any other gamer, that still comes back to the hair issue because that was what every other gamer saw from the fanbase when the 2010 trailer came about. Just like how people hold Tameen's words against him, other gamers hold the white hair on the fanbase.


Well, the thing is (in response to the Dante jokes not being made directly about you/us),
Dante is a character people grew up with. Some even see him as a role model for some things, or just admire him. Some can relate to him. And some just think he's a great character. If somebody comes along and starts ridiculing him just because he/she doesn't like his style, that could be taken personally.
For Ninja Theory, it's once again a case of ''my opinion beats yours'', and yeah, that can really annoy people. If they had said they didn't like Dante because he's a shallow character, fair enough. At least that's a good, factual reason for disliking him. But to go around saying ''Hah hah, you like white hair. Dork!'' (that's the kind of humor they use), that's just respectless. Because that's what the wig scene is: it's NT going ''how could you like white hair? It looks ridiculous, you moron!'' (not that strongly worded, but that's the gist of it).

Although, I suppose you could also see it as new Dante's opinion, not NT's. But I think that would be an incorrect view, since NT also made fun of Dante at one of the game shows.
 
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Well, the thing is (in response to the Dante jokes not being made directly about you/us),
Dante is a character people grew up with. Some even see him as a role model for some things, or just admire him. Some can relate to him. And some just think he's a great character. If somebody comes along and starts ridiculing him just because he/she doesn't like his style, that could be taken personally.


Just like fans of NTDante who get mad when people insult him.

For Ninja Theory, it's once again a case of ''my opinion beats yours'', and yeah, that can really annoy people. If they had said they didn't like Dante because he's a shallow character, fair enough. At least that's a good, factual reason for disliking him. But to go around saying ''Hah hah, you like white hair. Dork!'' (that's the kind of humor they use), that's just respectless. Because that's what the wig scene is: it's NT going ''how could you like white hair? It looks ridiculous, you moron!'' (not that strongly worded, but that's the gist of it).


Oh bull. That is not what they meant and you know it. It was a humorous throwback joke. -_- plus NT Dante gets white hair at the end of the game along with DLC. So it plays more as an ironic joke.

Although, I suppose you could also see it as new Dante's opinion, not NT's. But I think that would be an incorrect view, since NT also made fun of Dante at one of the game shows.
 


The fact that Dante gets white hair at the end of DmC is not important, since it looks nothing like old Dante's hair. DmC Dante's hair is short and sort of unkempt, and old Dante's hair is long and groomed into position. Ninja Theory ridiculed old Dante's hair, and what it came down to was ''hah hah, you think long white hair looks cool. Idiots'' Aside from that, I think it was a reference to the old Dante in general, not just his hair. ''Not in a million years'' could be taken as ''never going back to old Dante'' and that's a kick in the head to the fans - right after they rebooted it, no less.

Aside from the wig joke, there was this annoying joke: ''that just seemed to drag on forever. Church.'', which refers to DMC4 when Nero doesn't pay attention and acts rebellious by putting on music on his mp3/mp4, and Dante crashes through the ceiling. It's annoying because it's as though DmC says (cynically): ''look at me! I can do lame jokes, just like DMC4 Nero was lame'' - it's a critique of and shameless throwback to a previous game, when they could've made up their own joke, instead of riding on DMC4. It's not a respectful joke, it's one that negatively parodies it. It basically says that Nero being rebellious towards Sanctus and the church was a lame thing. That's why the joke is (purposefully) so lame in DmC.

They insulted people when they let Dante say ''not in a million years'' with the wig. I don't know if it wasn't their intention, but people were insulted nonetheless. This could've been avoided if they had chosen their joke carefully, and if they had thought about the proper timing. Or if they simply had decided not to put that joke in the game.
If Ninja Theory didn't want to run the risk of p.issing people off or having their joke misinterpreted, then they should have come up with their own jokes, or should have just left it alone. It wasn't the right time to be joking about the DMCs.

Their ridiculing of Dante at one of the game shows, comparing him to two gay cowboys, and those two jokes combined make it clear that Ninja Theory has been quite disrespectful toward the DMCs, and they have the right to free speech, but they shouldn't cry when the game doesn't sell that well due to their disrespect.
 
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