DreadnoughtDT
God of Hyperdeath
Niloufar;248142 said:
Uh, no. Vergil had his time. He's been there enough. It's Sparda's turn.
Who agrees that Sparda should get his own prequel game?
- Thread starter Satsui no Hado
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Uh, no. Vergil had his time. He's been there enough. It's Sparda's turn.
I jus replayed DMC 3 after playing DMC 4. I felt nero was slaying nothing.I mean i still have not reached toughest levels yet but dante in DMC 3 is very convincing to be replaced with any other protagonist in DMC. So , no i don't think sparda will need a seperate game. Heck, there was a demand for vergil's own game but nah, ain't happening.
slice n dice
static x and dmc fan
well i think it would be nice to see sparda in his own game and also he shouldn't for many reasons... it's very confusing. (sorry for "nah, i'l stick with dante") again... very confusing.
>slice n dice:wacko:<
>slice n dice:wacko:<
NeroAngelo
Well-known Member
Yeah he should.
He is the stronger demon in the world after all. ^^
He is the stronger demon in the world after all. ^^
moseslmpg
Well-known Member
I voted no, despite the deceptive options (I don't think they should keep focusing on Dante).
A Sparda game would be a very bad idea. Let me tell you why:
Sparda was an ungodly demon god of godly epicness. I can see the opening cinematic now, it's like Onimusha 3 x 10. But then, the game starts, and you hit you first problem. The biggest flaw with games nowadays is that they require players, which ruins the cinematic epic experience except in rare cases like maybe SOTC or GOW, maybe.
Ok, so let's say that they have you fighting against Hell. Well, if they stay true to the Sparda story, you will be basically playing in God mode where one button just kills everything. So, it would be very very boring.
OK, so to try to fix that, they power you down so that the game is challenging. But then, you are just playing as a Sparda skin over Dante or Vergil.
But forget gameplay for a moment and look at the story. Assuming the game or games would cover a 2000 year timespan, the only thing they could focus on would be on his battles. There would be almost no focus on him and Eva, and there would certainly be no subtlety or nuance or intimation of Sparda's inner world.
And then finally, let's remember that Capcom would be handling this. They would inevitably add some ridiculous detail or piece of information that would forever ruin the series, and make Sparda look like a loser.
In conclusion, the only answer to a Sparda game is: Hell No. The only way it would be ok is that it is the last DMC game and no one really cares anymore, because once it comes out the DMC series is officially over. The only way Sparda should be include in games is by reference and possibly by playable flashback scenes with no story.
A Sparda game would be a very bad idea. Let me tell you why:
Sparda was an ungodly demon god of godly epicness. I can see the opening cinematic now, it's like Onimusha 3 x 10. But then, the game starts, and you hit you first problem. The biggest flaw with games nowadays is that they require players, which ruins the cinematic epic experience except in rare cases like maybe SOTC or GOW, maybe.
Ok, so let's say that they have you fighting against Hell. Well, if they stay true to the Sparda story, you will be basically playing in God mode where one button just kills everything. So, it would be very very boring.
OK, so to try to fix that, they power you down so that the game is challenging. But then, you are just playing as a Sparda skin over Dante or Vergil.
But forget gameplay for a moment and look at the story. Assuming the game or games would cover a 2000 year timespan, the only thing they could focus on would be on his battles. There would be almost no focus on him and Eva, and there would certainly be no subtlety or nuance or intimation of Sparda's inner world.
And then finally, let's remember that Capcom would be handling this. They would inevitably add some ridiculous detail or piece of information that would forever ruin the series, and make Sparda look like a loser.
In conclusion, the only answer to a Sparda game is: Hell No. The only way it would be ok is that it is the last DMC game and no one really cares anymore, because once it comes out the DMC series is officially over. The only way Sparda should be include in games is by reference and possibly by playable flashback scenes with no story.
Kittn
Dante's Lapcat
Opposed. Would rather see Sparda's history revealed through other gameplay. I know Dante doesn't really care about his papa's history or the legend behind it (or so it seems he doesn't) but that doesn't mean the players couldn't benefit from learning these things through him and missions that reveal things about Sparda.
Come to think about it, Fortuna kinda seems like a wasted opportunity now that I think back on it.
Come to think about it, Fortuna kinda seems like a wasted opportunity now that I think back on it.
King of Hell
Must Die
this would destroy ALL THE MYSTERY Sparda has, we love him for being a legend, & the mysterious father.
the line in DMC4 by Lady "what do you know about Sparda?", then Dante "Well, from what I can figure there's a lot of confusion surrounding him".
^^ that's the reason Sparda needs to stay the legendary mysterious hero & father.
so I voted "NO".
@moseslmpg:
Dante reached his father's power by DMC4 (maybe even surpassed), in DMC4 he killed the conquerer of fire hell with one gun shot, he destroyed the forest dragon with one shot, & killed an army of Dagon's with ease.
yet his powers are tuned down in gameplay, so I don't think that's the problem, the problem is, Sparda needs to stay a legend, just don't touch his character. stories are good, stories told by people or demons, but don't give him a game.
the line in DMC4 by Lady "what do you know about Sparda?", then Dante "Well, from what I can figure there's a lot of confusion surrounding him".
^^ that's the reason Sparda needs to stay the legendary mysterious hero & father.
so I voted "NO".
@moseslmpg:
Dante reached his father's power by DMC4 (maybe even surpassed), in DMC4 he killed the conquerer of fire hell with one gun shot, he destroyed the forest dragon with one shot, & killed an army of Dagon's with ease.
yet his powers are tuned down in gameplay, so I don't think that's the problem, the problem is, Sparda needs to stay a legend, just don't touch his character. stories are good, stories told by people or demons, but don't give him a game.
moseslmpg
Well-known Member
Yeah, they really did. I wish they would include maybe bits and pieces of his legend or some "ancient text" files that you have to find during the game. It would help establish some history in the games.Kittn;263170 said:
No he didn't. Dante has never done anything even close to what Sparda did, with his own power. And if Dante is more powerful than Sparda in DMC4, then his is literally God level in DMC2.King of Hell;263176 said:
All those things that he did were cinematic flourishes, just like how he kills enemies with one slice and so forth. Add to the fact that DMC4 is more of a parody than an actual game. None of that is even remotely canonical.
darkslayer13
Enma Katana no Kami
moseslmpg;263185 said:
regardless of your opinion of dmc4 it is a video game in a video game series. if the games aren't canon then nothing is. even dmc2 is still canon. unless Capcom makes an announcement that dmc4 is not canon every single little detail is completely 100% unarguably canon.
moseslmpg
Well-known Member
Dante is not as powerful as Sparda, and saying he is doesn't change anything.darkslayer13;263207 said:
Also, Capcom doesn't actually determine canon. Canon is determined ultimately by consumers, not producers. As far as I'm concerned, DMC4 is not canonical because it was so incoherent and ridiculous, it was just some crazy dream. And every detail is not canonical either; there is no way the shakespeare scene is canonical.
In any case, regardless of the canonicity of anything, in all of the games, Dante is shown doing things in cutscenes that he can't do in the game, so cutscenes cannot be taken literally. Dante could not have killed Berial with a single bullet, etc.
DreadnoughtDT
God of Hyperdeath
Canon is what is official, meaning that if Capcom says it's canonical, it is. You may not want to believe something happened in a game series, but if Capcom says it's canon, there's no circumventing that.
moseslmpg
Well-known Member
That isn't the definition of canon. It is not necessarily equatable with "official."
DMC4 isn't really necessarily canon though since it has no relation to the rest of the series, and is incongruous with it as well. DMC2 at least isn't incongruous.
Anyway, the whole point is that Sparda is not weaker than Dante.
DMC4 isn't really necessarily canon though since it has no relation to the rest of the series, and is incongruous with it as well. DMC2 at least isn't incongruous.
Anyway, the whole point is that Sparda is not weaker than Dante.
DreadnoughtDT
God of Hyperdeath
They could be on par, though.
And who ever said that Sparda had the power to level demons like that? We don't have any official source that says so. Just because the legend states that he took on all of Hell doesn't mean it's true. A legend is just that, a legend. As humans have passed it down, the story has probably been twisted to make Sparda seem godlike.
And who ever said that Sparda had the power to level demons like that? We don't have any official source that says so. Just because the legend states that he took on all of Hell doesn't mean it's true. A legend is just that, a legend. As humans have passed it down, the story has probably been twisted to make Sparda seem godlike.
moseslmpg
Well-known Member
So, your position is that Sparda is weaker than Dante then? I'll never understand people who argue that.
Maybe Sparda wasn't even a demon, maybe he was just some LARPer that worked at the video rental store and made a cool demon name for his character. And he didn't really fight Hell, just a few of his friends pretending to be demons. And the Sparda sword is a plastic prop. Heck, Sparda probably was a scrawny kind of guy, not even able to topple a regular sized human. It is just a legend after all. :eyeroll:
That's not how things work, and you know it. Just because something is a legend, especially in a fictional world, does not make it untrue, and considering that the "legend" is all we have to go on, we have to accept it until we have further information (Actually, DMC1 gives the official story, there is no legend cited in the opening).
If someone believes Sparda is weaker than Dante, then they don't really have any business calling themself a DMC fan.
Maybe Sparda wasn't even a demon, maybe he was just some LARPer that worked at the video rental store and made a cool demon name for his character. And he didn't really fight Hell, just a few of his friends pretending to be demons. And the Sparda sword is a plastic prop. Heck, Sparda probably was a scrawny kind of guy, not even able to topple a regular sized human. It is just a legend after all. :eyeroll:
That's not how things work, and you know it. Just because something is a legend, especially in a fictional world, does not make it untrue, and considering that the "legend" is all we have to go on, we have to accept it until we have further information (Actually, DMC1 gives the official story, there is no legend cited in the opening).
If someone believes Sparda is weaker than Dante, then they don't really have any business calling themself a DMC fan.
Meg
Well-known Member
*comes to DT's aid*
Alrighty, moses, look You're way isn't necessarily right. You could be dead wrong. DT could be dead wrong. We could ALL be way wrong. The point is is that this is a discussion, but from what I've read it seems like you dismiss any idea that's not yours as wrong and are coming off as condescending. Cool it.
ANYWAY!!!! To get this back on topic...
Should Sparda get his own game? Not a full length game, but a bonus mini game or missions where you get to play as Sparda would be cool. It would be difficult to do, but if they could pull it off it would be sweet. If he does get his own game I can only see it in the form of Capcom milking the series for more money after it ends. And seeing's how they are gonna start pumping out games faster that might happen. :dry:
Alrighty, moses, look You're way isn't necessarily right. You could be dead wrong. DT could be dead wrong. We could ALL be way wrong. The point is is that this is a discussion, but from what I've read it seems like you dismiss any idea that's not yours as wrong and are coming off as condescending. Cool it.
ANYWAY!!!! To get this back on topic...
Should Sparda get his own game? Not a full length game, but a bonus mini game or missions where you get to play as Sparda would be cool. It would be difficult to do, but if they could pull it off it would be sweet. If he does get his own game I can only see it in the form of Capcom milking the series for more money after it ends. And seeing's how they are gonna start pumping out games faster that might happen. :dry:
DreadnoughtDT
God of Hyperdeath
@Meg: I had told him about that in another thread, but I can't remember where. I told him that the last member to act like him was banned, and he said he was doing nothing wrong, so if he gets banned, it's not my problem.
Dante's Stalker
"Outrun this!"
I voted on this thread a looong time ago.
I can't remember what I voted though. But I have to agree with Moses, to a certain level. DMC4 Dante couldn't have surpassed Sparda's power. Maybe he got close to being equal to it, but NEVER surpass it. DMC2 novel IS canon, and until Capcom themselves say it's not, it will forever remain canon - and in the novel, when Chen and Dante have their final match...here, I'll just quote bits from it:
AND the only reason why Dante didn't run when he knew he was going to lose is because
So it was kinda a matter of family pride he needed to justify. PLUS Dante didn't even kill Chen (well both his arms were kinda dead and useless), Beryl blasted the dude to smithereens with her special magic bullet, or whatever it was again. Dante knew he'd weakened Chen enough to kill him, but he was unable to do the deed himself because Chen had practically mutilated him up to that point and Dante admitted that he was probably going to die when Chen fully transformed into his demonic form.
Those are all my defence ammo as to why I believe Dante never has, and probably never will, surpass Sparda.
I have to disagree about the issues of what's canon and what isn't though. It doesn't matter what fans think make sense or is convenient to discount in the DMC-verse, at the end of the day if Capcom declares something canon, it is canon for a reason. That's why, I think, the first DMC novel with Gilver and Dante was given the 'fail' stamp of non-canon. It wouldn't be in line with the DMC3 mangas of Code 1: Dante and Code 2: Vergil, and as far as I know the manga outshine the novel.
Point: if Capcom says it's canon, it is. Same goes with the DMC4 novels. I believe Capcom has said that they are canon, which means that Nero is Vergil's son. Just because the fans don't like it, doesn't make it non-canon.
Erm. Back on topic!
I'd want a Sparda game, but only as the last in the series, when Capcom decides to wrap up the franchise and leave it at rest. Before then, a Sparda game would annihilate the whole mystery of Sparda, because if they do create a Sparda game, and then another thereafter, chances are the things referred to Sparda in that game would contradict what we know from the actual Sparda game. And we all know how Capcom likes to contradict everything in DMC. It just won't work.
I can't remember what I voted though. But I have to agree with Moses, to a certain level. DMC4 Dante couldn't have surpassed Sparda's power. Maybe he got close to being equal to it, but NEVER surpass it. DMC2 novel IS canon, and until Capcom themselves say it's not, it will forever remain canon - and in the novel, when Chen and Dante have their final match...here, I'll just quote bits from it:
AND the only reason why Dante didn't run when he knew he was going to lose is because
So it was kinda a matter of family pride he needed to justify. PLUS Dante didn't even kill Chen (well both his arms were kinda dead and useless), Beryl blasted the dude to smithereens with her special magic bullet, or whatever it was again. Dante knew he'd weakened Chen enough to kill him, but he was unable to do the deed himself because Chen had practically mutilated him up to that point and Dante admitted that he was probably going to die when Chen fully transformed into his demonic form.
Those are all my defence ammo as to why I believe Dante never has, and probably never will, surpass Sparda.
I have to disagree about the issues of what's canon and what isn't though. It doesn't matter what fans think make sense or is convenient to discount in the DMC-verse, at the end of the day if Capcom declares something canon, it is canon for a reason. That's why, I think, the first DMC novel with Gilver and Dante was given the 'fail' stamp of non-canon. It wouldn't be in line with the DMC3 mangas of Code 1: Dante and Code 2: Vergil, and as far as I know the manga outshine the novel.
Point: if Capcom says it's canon, it is. Same goes with the DMC4 novels. I believe Capcom has said that they are canon, which means that Nero is Vergil's son. Just because the fans don't like it, doesn't make it non-canon.
Erm. Back on topic!
I'd want a Sparda game, but only as the last in the series, when Capcom decides to wrap up the franchise and leave it at rest. Before then, a Sparda game would annihilate the whole mystery of Sparda, because if they do create a Sparda game, and then another thereafter, chances are the things referred to Sparda in that game would contradict what we know from the actual Sparda game. And we all know how Capcom likes to contradict everything in DMC. It just won't work.
moseslmpg
Well-known Member
The fact that we could be wrong doesn't mean everyone is wrong. Someone is right, and someone is wrong. I can't help it if I usually pick the winning team. I don't dismiss any idea that is mine, and in fact I adopt good ideas that others come up with. But this is not even an issue of one idea vs. another, this is something so basic to the DMC series that it should not even be up for debate.meg127;263275 said:
The only issue here is whether Sparda is more powerful than Dante. I used a sarcastic, facetious example to illustrate the problem with Dread's reasoning, reductio ad absurdum, as I usually do. I did not insult him, I did not imply he was stupid, or anything of the sort. There is no need to aid him because I am not attacking him.
----
Sparda's power is not even an issue that needs to be debated. Just play DMC1 and listen to the opening narration, look at how powerful the Sparda sword makes you, given that it is only part of Sparda's power. And then you can read the DMC3 manga as well, that describes Sparda as literally taking the names of demons, which demonstrates almost impossible power. That would be like killing someone by erasing their soul. Then compare with the things Dante does in all the games. The closest he has come to Sparda, using his own power, is the DDT and even that seems less powerful.
Contrariwise, if you believe that Sparda is weaker than Dante, you have some explaining to do. Given that Nero is described as having more raw power than Dante, that means that Nero is stranger than Sparda and Dante. If Dante was more or as powerful as Sparda in DMC1, why did he need the Sparda sword and Trish's power to defeat Mundus? And if Dante was not as powerful as Sparda in DMC1, how did he get that powerful in only 7 years? Why does Dante struggle to defeat what are essentially footsoldiers? Why can't he use any of the powers that Sparda did, as evidence by DMC1. And, how has Dante, a half demon of 35 years, surpassed the power and skill of his father, a full demon of 2000+ years who defeated Hell single-handedly?
Dante's Stalker
"Outrun this!"
Who said Nero's 'raw' power exceeds Dante and Sparda? That's just ridiculous. 'Raw' does not mean more powerful. It means wild, untamed, yet to be mastered. Sparda trained Dante and Vergil, which is why Dante was capable of beating Nero and Sanctus etc etc. Ugh, anyway, actually don't even respond to that, because the theory is not believable at all.
I don't think there's any reason to carry on this little debate about Sparda being weaker than any of his lineage. I've made my point, and you've made your point, as to exactly why Sparda is unlikely to be used in the same sentence as 'weak'. Why call DT out on proving his theory if we've already presented enough reason to debunk his theory? It's asking for trouble, that's what it is. Leave dead-ends dead, and let's get back to the actual topic discussion, yes?
I don't think there's any reason to carry on this little debate about Sparda being weaker than any of his lineage. I've made my point, and you've made your point, as to exactly why Sparda is unlikely to be used in the same sentence as 'weak'. Why call DT out on proving his theory if we've already presented enough reason to debunk his theory? It's asking for trouble, that's what it is. Leave dead-ends dead, and let's get back to the actual topic discussion, yes?
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