Was Dante Really That Different?

[Foxtrot94]

How exactly was he drastically different from his DMC 1 self? Someone enlighten me.

Well jeez, where do I start. I guess the simplest way to put it is, take DMC1 Dante, with all of the character traits the game shows over the course of the story, the signature cocky attitude and the cheesy humor, take them all completely out and leave a soulless, empty, dead inside shell of a body with Dante's looks.

That's how he's different from DMC1. The funny thing about this thread is that I didn't think I would ever see the day where someone raises the argument that DMC2 and DMC1 Dante are not all that different. That's just bonkers. DMC1 Dante had serious moments, but he's also the guy who had fun in juggling a motorbike with pistol bullets, engaged in banter with bosses and was playfully cocky throughout his whole journey, where's all that in DMC2? Like, one line in the entire game (the crown line) doesn't cut it. A lot of the defining characteristics of Dante are just not there.

Now as I said, if they added context to this, showing why he did a 180 in personality, I wouldn't have minded. I actually think it would have been pretty interesting. Look at Prince of Persia. In Warrior Within he's broodier, more ruthless, less insecure and more violent. But they surrounded this personality change with a believable context, he had been chased by a fearsome creature for years trying to kill him for a mistake he made for his pride without quarter. That way, it comes across as an actual progression in character rather than the developers just looking like they don't know who the character they're portraying even is.

I've heard that DMC2 was originally meant to be another game altogether, and that they turned it into a sequel to DMC1 after its success, which would also explain why DMC2's production began while DMC1 was still in the last stages of its own development. If that's the case, that also explains why it feels so disconnected from the rest of the series as a whole, not just when it comes to Dante's character.
DMC2 was just a mess ever since its conceivement, having an identity crisis, swapping staff, trying to patch things up at the last moment. Alienation is bound to happen in cases like that.

 

[LordOfDarkness]

It’s not bonkers at all. He really isn’t that much different. I don’t remember him being overly cocky in DMC 1. In DMC 3 and 4 I could say that he is, but not one. I honestly disagree with everything you just said. DMC 1 Dante to me really isn’t all that different to 2’s. Same as DMC 3 and 4 Dante are similar. 1 and 2 take things more seriously, and 3 and 4 don’t. That’s it really.

And you’re practically saying people are wrong just for having that opinion.

 

[V's patron]

@LordOfDarkness
the fourth novel wasn't released in the states till recently. Till then we had to rely on one fan's interpration over at Devil'slair.org that didn't show the novel in the best light. Plus there was the rumor that 4's scenario writer Bingo Marahashi was fired before the novel so we were unsure how true it was.

Usually the novels, the manga and the anime are what is known as second tier canon. That means they aren't as sacred as the games and considered canon till the creators say otherwise.

 

[berto]

To answer the thread question directly: Yes, yes he is. Are you kidding?
Kindly jump to 3:44 here:

Now, can you show me any instances in DMC1 where Dante is so incredibly disinterested as his one delivery of this one line.

This isn't something that should be up for debate, it's as obvious as the fact that he's got a different voice. In DMC 2 Dante is monotone and disinterested. In DMC1 he was energetic and confident.

In the artbook they released a few ago the staff said that the producer didn't like characters like the og Dante, he didn't think characters like him were cool, so they changed him to be a quiet badass, which is the kind he considered cool, so it's not like it was accidental either.

Yeah, he was serious in 1 and in 3 to 5 he became a ninja turtle, but in 2 he was just as different from 1 as he was from 1 to the rest.

 

[BrawlMan]

To answer the thread question directly: Yes, yes he is. Are you kidding?
Kindly jump to 3:44 here:

Now, can you show me any instances in DMC1 where Dante is so incredibly disinterested as his one delivery of this one line.

This isn't something that should be up for debate, it's as obvious as the fact that he's got a different voice. In DMC 2 Dante is monotone and disinterested. In DMC1 he was energetic and confident.

In the artbook they released a few ago the staff said that the producer didn't like characters like the og Dante, he didn't think characters like him were cool, so they changed him to be a quiet badass, which is the kind he considered cool, so it's not like it was accidental either.

Yeah, he was serious in 1 and in 3 to 5 he became a ninja turtle, but in 2 he was just as different from 1 as he was from 1 to the rest.

Thank you, so much! Some people on the board weren't getting this. DMC2!Dante only has small samples of 1's personality, and it barely shows up until the near end.

 

[berto]

Thank you, so much! Some people on the board weren't getting this. DMC2!Dante only has small samples of 1's personality, and it barely shows up until the near end.

Ok. Take it easy. Don't hurt them.

Anyway, it's a little funny that you bring up this point when you have that avatar because in my mind playing as Dante in VJ1 has always been a truer sequel to DMC1 than 2 has.

 

[Foxtrot94]

I don’t remember him being overly cocky in DMC 1.

Where did I say overly cocky?

 

[BrawlMan]

Ok. Take it easy. Don't hurt them.

Anyway, it's a little funny that you bring up this point when you have that avatar because in my mind playing as Dante in VJ1 has always been a truer sequel to DMC1 than 2 has.

Amen to that. Hell, even Bujingai and Chaos Legion were better sequels to DMC1 before 3.

 

[Foxtrot94]

One could also say that DMC2 Dante is not like DMC1's simply because he is... nothing. He has next to no personality to begin with so he's bound to not resemble his previous incarnation by default, so to speak.

 

[LordOfDarkness]

@Foxtrot94 - You didn’t. But you still kept saying he was cocky in DMC 1. And I think differently, but by your logic having a different opinion makes somebody wrong. So fair enough.

I won’t say any more on the matter than what I already have. If that makes me wrong then that’s fine by me.

 

[berto]

Amen to that. Hell, even Bujingai and Chaos Legion were better sequels to DMC1 before 3.

I've never played Bujingai but I do agree that Chaos Legion has a similar air to DMC. It's not as refined nor as well made but if I were to see both games in action with Dante replaced by a featureless stand in I would think that CL was more likely in the series and not DMC2.

One could also say that DMC2 Dante is not like DMC1's simply because he is... nothing. He has next to no personality to begin with so he's bound to not resemble his previous incarnation by default, so to speak.

That's not entirely fair, either. Dante 2.0 isn't without characteristics, he's stoic but he has traits. If I were to compare him to anything he's like D from Vampire Hunter D: Bloodlust. He eases through things, he acts but doesn't react to anything (permanent poker face), and he pretends he doesn't care, that he's doing it for some trivial reason he pulled out of his butt, when we all know he's actually a really nice guy. It's not that uncommon a 'cool' character type in Japan but I find them rather dull, just like D in Bloodlust (I prefer the manga).

 

[Foxtrot94]

That's not entirely fair, either. Dante 2.0 isn't without characteristics

Well of course, unless it's an intended blank slate avatar like Gordon Freeman, you're bound to find one or two traits in any character. But you know what I mean. I did specify next to no personality. DMC2 Dante might not be a Half Life type of protagonist, but he's one of the closest to it I've ever seen in gaming due to how devoid of emotions and the sheer dullness of him.

 

[V's patron]

Ultimately there is no in-story reason for the change. It's just the whim of a different director and production woes. I imagine coming up with a plausible story explanation is part of the fun. Thats pretty evident in Marvel/DC comics. Stan lee and the other early Marvel writers to give out no-Prizes for coming up with an explanation.

 

[berto]

but he's one of the closest to it I've ever seen in gaming due to how devoid of emotions and the sheer dullness of him.

No, I agree. I was just pointing out that that's actually a common archetype in Japan, the sumber, quiet, hero, maybe something rooted in an idealized Samurai stoicness, but if they don't pull it off right, as is the case here, they're boring to watch, boring to listen to and boring to be around with. When they pull it off right these characters can be great heroes or villains. When you do it right. these are the guys who never react to anything, the ones that walk away from an explosion and don't twitch, flinch or in any way shape or form do acknowledge it. It's very difficult to make them work because they have to carry the story forward and if they aren't reactionary then they have to bring something else to the table and Dante 2.0 brings nothing.

 

[Foxtrot94]

Most of that stuff was from DMC 3 not 1. The only thing that's present in 1 is banter with bosses

Uhm... No? Literally in the opening cutscene, you have Dante saying stuff like "Woah, slow down babe!", making jackpot analogies, and saying "Time to go to work, guys!" to his pistols before using them to have a motorcycle defy gravity with bullets. That's in the opening cutscene of DMC1, man. That aspect of his personality will still be present throughout the game with his banter with bosses, and towards the ending.



(Reply from this thread: https://devilmaycry.org/forums/threads/a-change-in-the-timeline.23761/#post-674345)

 

[windleopard]

Uhm... No? Literally in the opening cutscene, you have Dante saying stuff like "Woah, slow down babe!", making jackpot analogies, and saying "Time to go to work, guys!" to his pistols before using them to have a motorcycle defy gravity with bullets. That's in the opening cutscene of DMC1, man. That aspect of his personality will still be present throughout the game with his banter with bosses, and towards the ending.



(Reply from this thread: https://devilmaycry.org/forums/threads/a-change-in-the-timeline.23761/#post-674345)

While that as true the motorcycle juggling and "larger than life" personality isn't present in 1. Yes he makes jokes at times but not nearly as much as he does in 3 and 4 and even the motorcycle feat in 1 is tame compared to what he does in 3.

 

[Foxtrot94]

Yes he makes jokes at times but not nearly as much as he does in 3 and 4 and even the motorcycle feat in 1 is tame compared to what he does in 3.

While sure, it's no secret that his joking side is amped up in 3 and 4 (although 4 is the only one where that's really a fault, as DMC3 is a prequel and as such can get away with it, especially considering that, as the story progresses, Dante becomes more and more like his DMC1 self), the bolded part is my point. He does make jokes. DMC2 Dante is a statue for the vast majority of the time. And it doesn't even just come down to DMC1 Dante having a funny side that DMC2's almost completely lacks, but even the serious moments in that game have a different flavor from 1. In 2, most of the time the flavor of seriousness Dante has basically just comes down to him looking and sounding disinterested (when he even talks on the first place) and deadpan, whereas in 1 the serious moments actually have character to it. He shows actual emotions. One doesn't even need to have DMC3 and 4 into the picture to see that 1 and 2's Dante's have incredibly little to nothing in common. Even anime Dante has more banter and joking moments than DMC2's.

With all that considered, there's no way DMC2 Dante is even close to being similar to his DMC1 self, and it should come to no wonder that that was one of the main (and many) points of criticism flying around after the game released, when DMC3 and 4 didn't even exist. I genuinely can't fathom how on Earth this is even a point of argument.

With DMC2 apparently originally being a separate project altogether, with Dante being a whole other character to begin with, and only getting turned into DMC once Capcom saw the success of the first game, it doesn't really come off as a mystery why that is the case (and why the game turned out to be such a mess overall), but still, it is.

 

[V]

Aside from Dante behaving the opposite of a fun-loving wisecracker, the game itself is very different in tone and very bare in plot for Dante (Lucia gets the arc). The cumulative effect if you have comparison is that the whole thing is a big departure from the original and that Dante is boring here. Even though the game is still just about smacking demons around like all the others.

DMC2 was the first of the series I picked up so I guess I liked what it offered enough at the time to explore the other ones and never thought anything of Dante's sombreness. Then I played the first and realized how much more character and detail it had and how Dante's character was originally concieved to be. Then I played 3 and

 

[LordOfDarkness]

I’ve come to accept...

...I was wrong. Just because he’s not as much of a joker to me in 1 and 2 doesn’t mean he has the same personality.

He is different in 2 to what he was in 1. He was also different in 3 than he was in 1 and 2. I’d say he’s only really the same to me in 4 and 5.

 

[ef9dante_oSsshea]

People go through stages of becoming introvert and uncaring

With no proper backstory it's hard to know canon wise why Dante was like that in 2

Which is why it needs a remake