The ranting thinking thread
- Thread starter Dante's Stalker
- Start date
Meg
Well-known Member
*hugs* You are not a mega b*tch. You are brilliant. I'm all for people believing in what they want, it's just when people try to use their personal beliefs to justify keeping others oppressed that I have a problem with. (Not saying DS does that! O_O')
I actually wouldn't be surprised if the whole "gay is bad" started because the Romans were doing a lot of
at the time and Christians were being prosecuted and killed for their belief in God. So the Christians were like, well then, let's but "gay is bad" in the Bible. Those trolls. :lol:Although, I'm curious to know why asexuality doesn't get any hate from Christianity. If anything, it should because it's also "unnatural" and therefore against God's wishes. :troll: Meg is asexual....
And I don't mean to sound mocking! :blink:
V
Oldschool DMC fan
Well, the Bible is an amalgam of Jewish and Christ-followers' ideas. The Jewish ideas in it strongly suggest that marriage and kids is 'proper' and so asexuality and not being married or having children would probably be seen as improper by that mindset. It's also why people have suggested that Jesus would have been married and had descendants if he was a real man, being a Jew.
But the Christian part is somewhat different... it doesn't stress so much on that one. But somewhere in there that is always being quoted is the line "it is an abomination" referring to 'man lying with man' and 'woman lying with woman'. The usual part quoted when people are asked where their justification for condemning gays comes from. And it's usually assumed God blew up Sodom and Gomorrah because of all the 'sexual deviance' going on, therefore it must be bad.
It irritates me to hear that when natural disasters occur, some freak is standing around with a board somewhere that says to the effect that God caused that disaster in that country because of gays. Or unbelievers. Because of course that would be what God would want you to do... stand around gloating at others' death and destruction like a prat.
Vergil'sBitch
I am Nero's Mom & Obsessed fan girl
aww, the baby is thwowing his twoys outta the pwam again!
Don't get shirty with mum because you didn't listen to what your doctor said... hopefully he will lay into you and tell you to stop being such a d*ckhead.
Don't get shirty with mum because you didn't listen to what your doctor said... hopefully he will lay into you and tell you to stop being such a d*ckhead.
Dante's Stalker
"Outrun this!"
I'm feeling a bit harshly and unjustly judged here. I never said God condemns the person. Only the sin. God hates sin, there's no beating around the bush with that. Jesus had a different purpose than the rest of us. He came to save us and build a bridge between us and God. That was His purpose. He was not of this world, so why would He take a wife and have children if He knew He didn't have long on this earth to accomplish what He came here for? And Paul was gay. He was one of the disciples. His purpose was to spread the Word of God despite prosecution. He chose God over His own fleshly desires.
When you're a Christian, you need to give up your old life. Forget everything society has taught you. Ignore everything society thinks about you. You live for GOD, not for yourself.
That means if you are raped, you have to forgive the person who committed the crime. Jesus said, forgive x7, and love your enemy. If you happen to become pregnant as a consequence, abortion does not right a wrong. God said you shall not kill, and Jesus said that even if you THINK of killing another person, it's just as bad as having committed the act itself. God said that He knew you before you were formed in your mother's womb. Eg. LIFE begins at conception. You abort, you kill, that is God's word.
God also says that children ARE A GIFT FROM HEAVEN. However they may come to be. God gave you a child. He will not give you anything that you can't cope with because God knows your limitations. Jesus also said that the Kingdom of God are for children. If you abort, for whatever reason it may be, it is killing a life. It is a sin, period. You can't fight fire with fire.
Again, you need to note, God does not condemn the person but THE ACT.
As you said, God is love, He is also righteous. There is a right and there is a wrong. The world IS black and white. You're either on God's side, or you're not. If you make excuses and try to justify a sin, you're either not a true believer or you've been deceived.
When you're a Christian, you need to give up your old life. Forget everything society has taught you. Ignore everything society thinks about you. You live for GOD, not for yourself.
That means if you are raped, you have to forgive the person who committed the crime. Jesus said, forgive x7, and love your enemy. If you happen to become pregnant as a consequence, abortion does not right a wrong. God said you shall not kill, and Jesus said that even if you THINK of killing another person, it's just as bad as having committed the act itself. God said that He knew you before you were formed in your mother's womb. Eg. LIFE begins at conception. You abort, you kill, that is God's word.
God also says that children ARE A GIFT FROM HEAVEN. However they may come to be. God gave you a child. He will not give you anything that you can't cope with because God knows your limitations. Jesus also said that the Kingdom of God are for children. If you abort, for whatever reason it may be, it is killing a life. It is a sin, period. You can't fight fire with fire.
Again, you need to note, God does not condemn the person but THE ACT.
As you said, God is love, He is also righteous. There is a right and there is a wrong. The world IS black and white. You're either on God's side, or you're not. If you make excuses and try to justify a sin, you're either not a true believer or you've been deceived.
V
Oldschool DMC fan
Why? Meg and Shadow are just discussing. Nobody is directing any of this at you personally. Just observing and questioning the apparent behaviour of some or particular Christians we may see or hear about - that goes without saying; none of us know the full picture, only the sliver we see. They don't represent you. Or God. As far as I'm concerned some are just particular people who have drawn attention to themselves by NOT behaving as Christians ought to. That's all.
If I were a Christian, I would not personally condemn gays or anyone else. Judging is God's business, not mine. Mine would be to live as I felt God wished me to. I just encounter or hear about so many people who do think it is their business to point fingers and miss the point of their faith, sadly.
And I see that you are the same as I would be.
Meg
Well-known Member
Lexy beat me to it, but I meant know offense. I just wanted to have a discussion. I wasn't judging you or anything. Although I do feel a little insulted because you indirectly called me either not a true believer or deceived just because I don't think the world is black and white as you say it is. I think the world is way more complex than you are making it out to be, but that's just one personal belief against another.
Annnnnd I'm not going to be responding to the rest of what you posted. What you're saying about abortion is not scientifically accurate. Scientists do not belief life starts at conception and when a fetus is aborted it is only a bundle of cells. Only in extremely rare cases is the baby aborted sometime after that and it is never for a light reason. However, since this is coming down to Science vs. Religion I'd rather not discuss it further.
Just know I am in fact a strong believer in God and Jesus Christ. But with stuff like this, I just prefer modern science, facts ,and strong evidence over what is in a book that was written thousands of years ago and changed countless times. But that's just me. I respect other peoples beliefs too.
Dante's Stalker
"Outrun this!"
LOL I thought this was a bit ironic because there are so, so few Christians out there who will agree with and see where I'm coming from.
I guess I feel a bit 'called out' on my post. I would've thought that Meg would be with me on most of what I said because we're both Christian, but this is where the denominations come in to play, I guess. Not that I think any Protestant would agree with most of my views anyway, I think my mum would question some of what I understand as well.
I know you meant no offense, it's just that I now know where you're coming from and my views contradict yours in a way that will probably lead to one or both of us feeling miserable if we took the discussion any further. For one, science doesn't contradict religion. Some people find this mindblowing. Some people can't see the link between the two. We're coming from two total opposites on this topic. If anything I believe that many things in the Bible can be scientifically proven or recreated. I think you'd be surprised how many Christians are scientists.Lexy beat me to it, but I meant know offense. I just wanted to have a discussion. I wasn't judging you or anything. Although I do feel a little insulted because you indirectly called me either not a true believer or deceived just because I don't think the world is black and white as you say it is. I think the world is way more complex than you are making it out to be, but that's just one personal belief against another.
Annnnnd I'm not going to be responding to the rest of what you posted. What you're saying about abortion is not scientifically accurate. Scientists do not belief life starts at conception and when a fetus is aborted it is only a bundle of cells. Only in extremely rare cases is the baby aborted sometime after that and it is never for a light reason. However, since this is coming down to Science vs. Religion I'd rather not discuss it further.
Just know I am in fact a strong believer in God and Jesus Christ. But with stuff like this, I just prefer modern science, facts ,and strong evidence over what is in a book that was written thousands of years ago and changed countless times. But that's just me. I respect other peoples beliefs too.
I also know that the Bible has been translated numerous times into numerous languages, but the 'errors' or 'inconsistencies' found in these translations come down to miniscule little things like the proper word being used. It doesn't change the whole universe of the Bible nor does it change the message. I've read up about this before, I think I posted in the reading thread about the book, too. Finding the real Jesus, I think is what it was called, written by a Bible scholar and plenty of quotes from other scholars as well.
Um.
Yeah.
Anyway.
Meg
Well-known Member
I'm actually Catholic.
:lol:I know that's not what you meant, but I had to point out the wording anyway. :lol:
And I know that the two can go together. That's largely why I'm able value both religion and science strongly. But you were saying that life begins with conception and abortion is killing, whereas scientists say that's not true. That's all I meant as far as the "science vs. religion" thing.
That's quite interesting. I did not know that. I would have thought there would be problems because of how different some languages are. Especially if we look at early languages vs. modern ones. But if you say so.
Although the Bible was still changed countless times during early Christianity. What was added in and what was taken out was decided by men, not God.
(Although that would have been cool if God wrote the Bible himself and then threw it down from Heaven at us like: "HERE! Now stop bickering." He probably has terrible handwriting. :shiftyWhat was I talking about again?
I do believe we derailed the thread! :O
Er....um...uh....er.....
CRT: MY LEGS FELL ASLEEP AGAIN!
Shadow
the horror was for love
I'm sorry if I was offensive. ._. *didn't mean to be**was just trying to see everyone's POV and express her own**hides*
---
Rant:
Oh, I'm a b*tch, am I? I wonder why. Don't just sit there and throw insults at me if you have no cause to back them up. You're a selfish, sexist little boy if you're gonna treat women like that and I'm gonna tell you off the second you start putting that BS on me. F*ck you. I'm not a decoration to be ignored when you think all of your problems are important and none of mine are. Most women I know are less catty than you, so go home to your mother and stop b*tching at me.
AzureNight13
Azure Night Goddess.... Or Wesker's daughter
FINALLY!!!!! It took you this long to realize that you so called girlfriend was nothing but problematic? I have to thank karma for working this situation out. You deserve ALOT better dad. Find someone that not only treats you right, but treats both of your daughters right. Now if we can put this whole "my friends stealing" ordeal to an end, we all would GLADLY move on. My friend's are willing to accept your apology dad, with no problem at all. We jst want to know what the verdict is. What do the finger prints say? Or the esults STILL haven't come up? Oh well. Dad I love you, but find a girlfriend that isn't a complete psycho.
Dante's Stalker
"Outrun this!"
I'm not the one saying life begins at conception. God's word says so in a couple of places. One is the one I quoted about God knowing us before we were even formed in the womb, that in itself says a lot. I think that's from Psalms, but I might be wrong.
There is also another quote I came across yesterday but it's in my native language so I'm trying to find it in my English version. Weird and frustrating how a verse from one Bible is not the same as another. I'll pm it to you once I track it down.
And unfortunately the world IS black and white, at least through God's perspective it is. Proverbs 17:15, He who justifies the wicked, and he who condemns the just, both of them alike are an abomination to the Lord. That's basically saying that if you say abortion (aka killing) is okay/necessary in some instances, then it's justified because of necessity. God says otherwise.
I'm just wondering, considering that the Bible doesn't explicitly say ABORTION is wrong but that killing is, who's word are you going to take to heart most? What God says or what science says?
Meg
Well-known Member
We have very different views on the world. You believe the world is black and white. I think that the world and people are so complex and morality so gray that I could spend the rest of my life writing about it and only ever understand a small portion of it.
God doesn't outright "say" anything. A book based on what he says is where we are getting all this from. The book was written by men. Not God. So what you are asking me is this: would I rather take to heart a book written thousands of years ago by men that has been changed and things omitted and added in overtime, or modern science with actual concrete evidence and findings. I choose science.
And besides, if you want to go by what the Bible says then women are inferior to men, men cannot shave, no one can eat pork, etc.
Chimera Khaos
Hades Leading General Commander
This random guy was stalking me the other day and completely stereotyped(I think it's the right term)my culture!...
So what if my culture is known for being violent and gang bashing people and whatnot, it doesn't we all are that way!...
Seriously, and what if I listen to heavy metal music and play games like Modern Warfare and DMC, I think I'm allowed to choose what I want to do and not to do!...
These people make me sick, it's not fair that they judge me just because people of my culture ****ed up!...
So what if my culture is known for being violent and gang bashing people and whatnot, it doesn't we all are that way!...
Seriously, and what if I listen to heavy metal music and play games like Modern Warfare and DMC, I think I'm allowed to choose what I want to do and not to do!...
These people make me sick, it's not fair that they judge me just because people of my culture ****ed up!...
Dante's Stalker
"Outrun this!"
The Bible was written by men guided by the Holy Spirit. You shouldn't underestimate God's power. If He can keep the world going like clockwork, don't you think He can manage to get His word out to us, too? Just because it was written by men you can't discredit it by saying so.
You're forgetting that scientists are also only men.
Has science proven that the soul exists? Is there evidence to support the idea that we have souls? No. But then how can you know whether or not the soul is present from the moment of conception or not? How can you tell when a soul embodies its vessel? There are no answers for that yet, but scientists are the people who try to make sense of things. To prove or disprove. There is no evidence indicating that we don't have souls, so where does that leave us?
Medical science taught me that a heartbeat signifies life. If you're a paramedic, the first thing you check is a person's vital signs, their pulse, is there a heartbeat. Breathing doesn't necessarily mean you're alive or dead. You get all kinds of poisons that can slow the heart down so much that it would be near impossible to detect any breathing, but that's why you rely on the heart to tell you whether someone is alive or not.
A baby's heart starts beating at 3-4 weeks.
The majority of women only realise they are pregnant around this stage, or a week or so later. i.e. they find out they're expecting when life has already taken hold. Anyone who finds out their expecting before this time...yeah, right, I'm still waiting to see that happen.
That aside, science also teaches that life begins at conception. Since this new life possesses human DNA and is the offspring of human parents, it can legitimately only be described as human life.
Since there can be no question that human zygotes, embryos and fetuses are alive, some have attempted to claim that human beings are not "persons," until some threshold is crossed, such as viability, the capacity to feel pain, birth, or even the first year after birth. The merits of such notions can be debated, but it should be clear that they are not based on science but rather on ideology, philosophy or belief.
The whole idea on it just being 'a clump of lifeless, numb tissue' is also a tricky one. It's the blueprint of an individual. It's got all the DNA right for its personality, its gender, it is a unique, living clump of cells that, if given the time to, will develop into a human being. It is a human being. It can't be 'a clump of tissue'. That's what we call poop or tumours or frostbite. It can't be anything BUT a human being. Its parents are human, it was conceived by a human, it could only be a human.
As Shakespeare said, you can call a rose by any other name, it will still smell as sweet. It is what it is.
By the way, I'd also just want to apologise to anyone who has had an abortion. I don't mean to offend or hurt. I feel very strongly that abortion is not the solution and that many women are suckered into getting abortions because they are unwilling or scared to look at the reality. I'm much more for the notion that women should rather be empowered and encouraged when they find out their pregnant, rather than someone saying yeah, you know what, kids aren't for you, you can't do this, let's get this sorted out for you. Motherhood is the single most greatest event that will change your life and move your heart in a way that you just CAN'T understand until you experience it.
Anyway back to your post, I think your feminism is tainting your view of women in the Bible. Yeah they weren't exactly wearing pants and ordering their husbands around, but the Bible teaches that the woman is the BACKBONE of men. Two heads are better than one. God CREATED women because that's what men NEEDED. To reproduce, to nurse, to heal, to feed, to grow, to comfort, to love, someone to talk to, someone to lean on. So I'm really really sorry if I offend you with this but the Bible does NOT teach that women are inferior to men, it teaches that women are ESSENTIAL to man's survival.
That puts women equal to men, one can do it, but two can do it better.
And I'm honestly hoping that your mention of shaving and pork is a joke. I mean, really, taking past events out of context in the Bible is a very silly thing to do.
Meg
Well-known Member
My head hurts. And we have derailed this thread to death. I'll send you a PM.
CRT: I'M TIRED AND MY HEAD HURTS!
Dante's Stalker
"Outrun this!"
Shadow
the horror was for love
Ugh, why can't I draw? Sick of people telling me "with practice you'll do better". Really? I'll practice for hours on end and it still all looks like cr*p to me. The faces never turn out right, the bodies are poorly proportioned. Until someone sits me down and walks me through it step by step in easy, understandable steps, I don't buy this "continuous practice" thing. If you're practicing the wrong way, it'll never progress, after all. >_<