The Fine Line of Change
- Thread starter Railazel
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Chancey289
Fake Geek Girl.
DMC 4 didn't just fail in the story department and let me tell you something, NO Devil May Cry has every delivered an amazing story or characters. Dante himself is one of the most generic and cliche video game characters in history. Any version of Dante to me is about as compelling as a freaking piece of sand paper. He has about as much complexity as a coloring book. But there was so much more wrong with DMC 4 and it wasn't the story.
The examples I showed are prime examples of balancing a decent and even great story with fun gameplay so your definition of action games aren't true. Gameplay in a RPG matters just as much as a story as well. An RPG can have the most amazing story ever written but if I don't enjoy playing the game then I won't bother.
Of course there are certain things you expect from a certain genre of games but why should Devil May Cry even bother adding a story when they can maybe just dish a mega bloody palace game instead. As long as DMC will add this to their stuff then it will be judged along with the rest of it. Tell me why I should respect or praise a developer that has an obvious lack of faith in their own creative ability especially working in a creative industry? Games have come a long way from the simple back and forth of Pong. They have set a standard for themselves. And I am one of the people that actually considers video games as a form of art as well. Excuse me if I'm doing it wrong.
You might like the Micheal Bay approach to story telling but don't dismiss anyone else who may prefer to experience interactive story telling that can deliver a more memorable experience. And you also can't simply describe it as a "decline" as you called it. When it comes to Devil May Cry I honestly don't care that much about the story but again the story isn't why the DMC 4 is so bad.
I don;t even get this. You call some of the games I used as examples overrated yet I think DmC is underrated. It blows my mind that such a lazy piece of crap like DMC 4 is marked higher in your eyes. It's like you're delusional. It's unreal. I care about the Devil May Cry series. When a developer literally just wants to push such a lazy piece of crap after something good like DMC 3 then why should I praise them? This wasn't the first but 2nd time they screwed up with DMC. They obviously don't care about it. At least NT gave a sh!t and went with creative confidence after Capcom turned away most of their ideas.
I won't defend Capcom all too much. They killed my Resident Evil and MegaMan. And I adore my little blue bomber so I'm almost devastated over the little guy. Screw Capcom. I would rather NT hold on to Devil May Cry. DmC just needs to work out some kinks and it could possibly be the best Devil May Cry ever. What they established was a very encouraging building block to really take the series in a awesome direction from here on out. I'm mainly talking about the combat mechanics and sheer creative influence that went in to it. The world they built was really cool and Limbo looked great. They can really knock it out of the park with an improved DmC sequel. I have no faith in Capcom but I see potential with NT and I'd like to see it get at least 1 more shot.
I don't want the original series to stay gone forever but I want to see what this can do because it did do good things. Of course according to you guys DmC did nothing right.
Zey
I came here to laugh at you.
I know I'm on the DmC forums when I read things like your post. The core of an action game is the gameplay, this apply with other genres too. Game = GAMEplay.
I enjoyed SoT, but not much for the story. We were talking about "good gameplay and good story", SoT doesn't fulfill this for me. Since the signature of this sub-forum is "OPINIONS", well, that's my opinion.
I enjoy how every discussion here is always delaired with .gif and replies that ignore the point.
Terrutas
Well-known Member
Again with this? You either have very little skills of interpreting what people say, or you're just trolling.
We said that DmC has not brought anything new to the table. In fact, it went way too many steps backwards so much as to remove key elements of the franchise, or even the genre. Such as Lock On and Styles. (inbefore you say Styles were forced when they gave you variety to play however you want, hurrrr)
Referring to an image posted by Marionette Cherry
Oh really? Then what else? I'm aware that it has some flaws, but I'm genuinely interested in what else y ou see in it.
Was it the backtracking that was also partly in DMC3?
Was it the dice game that we're all aware was bad?
Was it the gameplay?
Oh wait wait, I know. It was Nero, wasn't it? But then that's related to the story!
Chancey289
Fake Geek Girl.
I don't agree with David Cage. The dude has his head so far up his emotional a$$ he spews nothing but bs. Emotional stories don't need fancy graphics to display it the best. It's all about deliverance. 16 bit games can still deliver emotions if done correctly or maybe a little unintentionally.
Demi-fiend
Metempsychosis
Old DMC Dunte Fanboy Logic > Common Sense
Chancey289
Fake Geek Girl.
Again with this? You either have very little skills of interpreting what people say, or you're just trolling.
We said that DmC has not brought anything new to the table. In fact, it went way too many steps backwards so much as to remove key elements of the franchise, or even the genre. Such as Lock On and Styles. (inbefore you say Styles were forced when they gave you variety to play however you want, hurrrr)
Referring to an image posted by Marionette Cherry
Oh really? Then what else? I'm aware that it has some flaws, but I'm genuinely interested in what else y ou see in it.
Was it the backtracking that was also partly in DMC3?
Was it the dice game that we're all aware was bad?
Was it the gameplay?
Oh wait wait, I know. It was Nero, wasn't it? But then that's related to the story!
I don't even wanna talk to you. I get it you hate everything DmC. You never want to criticize the previous series. You're bias as hell. Just read TWOxAcross's in this thread because he explained it well and I agree with pretty much everything he said and rather not repeat it. Or you just watch this review because this is pretty much how I feel about it as well.Again with this? You either have very little skills of interpreting what people say, or you're just trolling.
We said that DmC has not brought anything new to the table. In fact, it went way too many steps backwards so much as to remove key elements of the franchise, or even the genre. Such as Lock On and Styles. (inbefore you say Styles were forced when they gave you variety to play however you want, hurrrr)
Referring to an image posted by Marionette Cherry
Oh really? Then what else? I'm aware that it has some flaws, but I'm genuinely interested in what else y ou see in it.
Was it the backtracking that was also partly in DMC3?
Was it the dice game that we're all aware was bad?
Was it the gameplay?
Oh wait wait, I know. It was Nero, wasn't it? But then that's related to the story!
Terrutas
Well-known Member
It seems anyone who doesn't agree with you is either biased, delusional or a fanboy.
You must have pretty good common sense, mate.
Demi-fiend
Metempsychosis
No one ever does. And yet he never stops talking. :/
Terrutas
Well-known Member
Hey it's not my fault that most people don't even like Devil May Cry in this forum, dedicated to Devil May Cry.
And yeah, the world doesn't revolve around you mate. Even Chancey seems to understand that.
Hey wait a minute, I thought you ignored all of the "Anti's"?
Because they don't agree with you, you know.IncarnatedDemon
Well-known Member
You can create a game without any story and crap graphics.
A GAME.
You can create a Story.
But thats not a game on its own.
Is it really necessary for me to explain this? Ok ill dig further in
The term Gameplay covers many different things. But genres is based on what gameplay concepts they have. Ofc all games can have all gameplay concepts in them. For example DMC can have NPC dialogue if they want similar to oblivion or mass effect or something. Audio (music or sounds) is things that are part of the gameplay.
BUT there are essential things in each genre that must be there. And placing npc dialogues in a hack and slash isn't necessarily that great idea.
So let's look at two genre and and SOME of the things it must have ok?
Hack and Slash:
alot of attacks and weapons, alot of monsters, often linear game,
Game doesnt necessarily has to be open world, and its may be best to just go with a linear world.
Graphics isnt important, just that it shudnt look ugly or "unclean" (u cant see **** that is).
NPC dialogues arent important
Art isnt very important.
60 fps is best but not a must.
This is some stuff that needs to be there. (i csant think of more atm lol)
Adventure game:
Audio and graphic is very important, Npc dialogue is important as well. Game must be open world.
And handling of audio and graphic must go well together. For example if your in a desert with sand and stuff, the audio and the visual art should give you an amazing experience.
An adventure game can even tell the player a story without cutscenes. The player can instead of watching something, they can experience events and talking to npcs.
For instance imagine if you were thrown into a big open world adventure game filled with many npcs who all had at least a story to tell or things to tell you about their local area.
And imagine that you kill a dragon, then all the npcs dialogue is updated and all of them go "Your the person who killed the dragon!!!". So there is a story in game based on your actions, but no cutscenes present.
A GAME.
You can create a Story.
But thats not a game on its own.
Is it really necessary for me to explain this? Ok ill dig further in
The term Gameplay covers many different things. But genres is based on what gameplay concepts they have. Ofc all games can have all gameplay concepts in them. For example DMC can have NPC dialogue if they want similar to oblivion or mass effect or something. Audio (music or sounds) is things that are part of the gameplay.
BUT there are essential things in each genre that must be there. And placing npc dialogues in a hack and slash isn't necessarily that great idea.
So let's look at two genre and and SOME of the things it must have ok?
Hack and Slash:
alot of attacks and weapons, alot of monsters, often linear game,
Game doesnt necessarily has to be open world, and its may be best to just go with a linear world.
Graphics isnt important, just that it shudnt look ugly or "unclean" (u cant see **** that is).
NPC dialogues arent important
Art isnt very important.
60 fps is best but not a must.
This is some stuff that needs to be there. (i csant think of more atm lol)
Adventure game:
Audio and graphic is very important, Npc dialogue is important as well. Game must be open world.
And handling of audio and graphic must go well together. For example if your in a desert with sand and stuff, the audio and the visual art should give you an amazing experience.
An adventure game can even tell the player a story without cutscenes. The player can instead of watching something, they can experience events and talking to npcs.
For instance imagine if you were thrown into a big open world adventure game filled with many npcs who all had at least a story to tell or things to tell you about their local area.
And imagine that you kill a dragon, then all the npcs dialogue is updated and all of them go "Your the person who killed the dragon!!!". So there is a story in game based on your actions, but no cutscenes present.
Zey
I came here to laugh at you.
Cowboys! Cowboys are the problem!Oh really? Then what else? I'm aware that it has some flaws, but I'm genuinely interested in what else y ou see in it.
Was it the backtracking that was also partly in DMC3?
Was it the dice game that we're all aware was bad?
Was it the gameplay?
Oh wait wait, I know. It was Nero, wasn't it? But then that's related to the story!
I know you like to critize DMC4, but that wasn't the point of my reply to Unknown. I think too that you could exprese your opinion more respectful, without assuming that "DMC4 is higher in my eyes" and that I'm being "delusional" (I can consider this ad hominem, like many of your post).
Same.
This is how a typical argument look on this forums. Amazing!
Good job guys, keep going. Let's derail the thread and ignore the valid points.
Chancey289
Fake Geek Girl.
Are you freaking kidding me? You bash DmC every chance you get. You've NEVER critique DMC on the same level you bash DmC on because it's like forbidden to you. I have pointed out flaws in BOTH VERSIONS. I have pointed out the good in BOTH versions. I am a fan of BOTH versions. At the end of the day I also made it clear so many times that my personal favorite Devil May Cry is the VERY FIRST ONE simply because of nostalgic heartstrings. I don't even care if DMC 3 has the better gameplay. DMC 1 holds a special little spot in my heart. Yet I'm not a fan and I don't like DMC.....-_-.
What am I going to assume? That you're not a bias fanboy? You have proven that you are nothing but that. You never ever want to talk about the bad stuff in DMC. But it's totally fine to bash DmC at every turn and you won't tell anyone a damn thing if they do. You'll sit idly and let it happen.
Terrutas
Well-known Member
Oh boy..
Dude we've had this conversation before. And I didn't critique DMC3/4 in the same way because to me, there isn't that much to critique as in DmCDMC because I like those games, so pointing out flaws in those as much as in a game that disappointed the hell out of me like DmCDMC, is pretty hard.
And I did critique the original series, when YOU asked me to in fact. It was in another thread that was going to same direction as this one actually.
I actually feel kind of the same way about DMC1 and I replay it every now and then. Just recently beat DMD again. But the reason I like the others and play them more often is because I love action packed games. And DMC3/4 satisfy that need more so than DMC1. That's not to say DMC1 isn't fantastic in doing so, it's just that DMC3/4 do a better job.
IncarnatedDemon
Well-known Member
Terru please update this:
http://i.imgur.com/uIVoLrM.png
DmC brought dymanic levels. The graphics is really nice Not all of them were spectacular. But definetly DmC added dynamic stages.
But then again is dynamic stages worth so many features removed?
Also have you played MGR?
http://i.imgur.com/uIVoLrM.png
DmC brought dymanic levels. The graphics is really nice
Not all of them were spectacular. But definetly DmC added dynamic stages.But then again is dynamic stages worth so many features removed?
Also have you played MGR?
Terrutas
Well-known Member
Uhm, I can't update it. It's not my image,Terru please update this:
http://i.imgur.com/uIVoLrM.png
DmC brought dymanic levels. The graphics is really nice
But then again is dynamic stages worth so many features removed?
Also have you played MGR?
Well, I don't think it matters if it's 'worth it' or not. so long as DmC added something I guess it should be mentioned.
No I haven't, I would if my XBOX didn't die on me though. Looks like a great game.
Chancey289
Fake Geek Girl.
It's just so unreal how you will sit there and truly believe DMC 4 is better than DmC. If you said DMC 3 was better than I couldn't argue with that that much because I like the challenge in that game but to me DmC's controls was like what I asked for in DMC 3. I really never cared for the style system all too much.
I know it's opinions and all but DMC 4 better? Man that opinion is dumb. You act DmC was some major betrayal and insulted fans where freaking 4 did that. If you want to shrug off taking such a lazy route developing the game you like and clearly just not living up at all to the game before it then I guess you really do just don't care about the series you love so much then. DMC 2 was a let down and DMC 3 was the redemption. DMC 4 just totally shat on that redemption and let us down majorly again.
I mean it doesn't even seem like common sense. Why does a game that totally just freaking took the laziest route to developing a big game that was a clear step down praised more than a game that actually was worked on all the way through and still delivered a full and fun experience? There is no way in hell you can convince anyone except maybe the people part of your hate fan club that DMC 4 is better than DmC. If we'd just let a DMC 4 happen over and over again the gaming industry would really be freaking terrible.
Demi-fiend
Metempsychosis
So you're biased, then.
If you can't look at something you like critically, then your judgement is clouded.
IncarnatedDemon
Well-known Member
Yeah i agree thats why i brought it up.Uhm, I can't update it. It's not my image,
Well, I don't think it matters if it's 'worth it' or not. so long as DmC added something I guess it should be mentioned.
No I haven't, I would if my XBOX didn't die on me though. Looks like a great game.
It also brought motion capture that was really good.
Get a new XBox or PS3 or possibly buy PC version of MGR (i think they will release a pc one).
Make sure you dont buy it til you got a full package. JetStream sam dlc seems to be a "Hey were taking this content out so we can sell it to you for 10 dollars" .