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The Fine Line of Change

Terrutas

Well-known Member
Well look, I've put countless hours into DMC4's combat system. I have no freaking regrets whatsoever.
I agree that the main campaign is a load of bullshit and it's boring as hell, the only missions I care about are missions 17 and 12.
Why does a game that totally just freaking took the laziest route to developing a big game that was a clear step down praised more than a game that actually was worked on all the way through and still delivered a full and fun experience?.
That's actually a pretty good point. DMC4 didn't deliver a 'full' experience.
But in the areas that it could, it delivered so well dude. I've put nearly 400 hours into this combat system and I still don't know everything about it. I still can't execute most of the stuff flawlessly. It just has so much depth, only thinking about it blows my mind.
Still though, you have to take into account that with the gaming industry's status back in 2008 with the stock drops or whatever that was (I forgot. :<) and looking at the game, it's very likely that Capcom just rushed it out for more money.
Just look at Nero's move list.
He's lacking in tons of areas such as Air Combos and Utility skills. Tablehopper is a piece of ****, seriously. You can't do anything with it like you can with skystar and trickster dash.
It just goes to show that he may very well be under developed. And if he's under developed, there's no reason the entire campaign wouldn't be because I for one believe they start off with the characters before designing stages around them.

However...DmC... I've already stated why I don't like it and why I think it's a huge disappointment and that if Tardeem's arrogance wouldn't have been in the way, the game may have some redeeming qualities. But you already know I said t hat.

So you're biased, then.

If you can't look at something you like critically, then your judgement is clouded.
So if those games have less flaws in them than other games, I'm biased. Oh lordy, get out.
And by the way, check out all that text. :^)
 

Chancey289

Fake Geek Girl.
Well look, I've put countless hours into DMC4's combat system. I have no freaking regrets whatsoever.
I agree that the main campaign is a load of bullshit and it's boring as hell, the only missions I care about are missions 17 and 12.

That's actually a pretty good point. DMC4 didn't deliver a 'full' experience.
But in the areas that it could, it delivered so well dude. I've put nearly 400 hours into this combat system and I still don't know everything about it. I still can't execute most of the stuff flawlessly. It just has so much depth, only thinking about it blows my mind.
Still though, you have to take into account that with the gaming industry's status back in 2008 with the stock drops or whatever that was (I forgot. :<) and looking at the game, it's very likely that Capcom just rushed it out for more money.
Just look at Nero's move list.
He's lacking in tons of areas such as Air Combos and Utility skills. Tablehopper is a piece of ****, seriously. You can't do anything with it like you can with skystar and trickster dash.
It just goes to show that he may very well be under developed. And if he's under developed, there's no reason the entire campaign wouldn't be because I for one believe they start off with the characters before designing stages around them.

However...DmC... I've already stated why I don't like it and why I think it's a huge disappointment and that if Tardeem's arrogance wouldn't have been in the way, the game may have some redeeming qualities. But you already know I said t hat.


So if those games have less flaws in them than other games, I'm biased. Oh lordy, get out.
And by the way, check out all that text. :^)
So you just play like 2 missions over and over again. More power to you but I work for my own money and if I buy a game I better have one that's worth my $60. I don't mind playing through the single player campaigns over and over in its entirety of previous Devil May Cry games and other single player games I own like Arkham City because they are a full fun package. Why should I just drop so much money on something if I'd really find myself doing only like one thing. Hell I did bloody palace the most on DMC 4 just because it was all about the combat but that got boring after a while.

As for some dude who I don't even remember his full name, I don't care. One guy does not make up Ninja Theory. And as far as I'm concerned if he gave a couple comebacks to those obnoxious and stupid fanboys then I don't blame him. There ARE fans of DMC that are obnoxious and annoying little babies that deserve it. If you're going to fling sh!t then don't complain when it gets thrown back at you. He's still just a person who's just doing his job. I've never seen any proof showing he went out of his way to insult the people who are suppose to support him. Show me the proof and I'll join you in your insults at that guy with the weird name and stupid looking hair.
 

Demi-fiend

Metempsychosis
Supporter 2014
I thought you weren't going to reply? :ermm:

Well look, I've put countless hours into DMC4's combat system. I have no freaking regrets whatsoever.

I regret playing the game once. This means I can tell everyone that this isn't a game worth playing, then.

People are going to have different tastes in games. Let them try it out before immediately telling them "it's horrible".

I agree that the main campaign is a load of bullshit and it's boring as hell, the only missions I care about are missions 17 and 12.

That's actually a pretty good point. DMC4 didn't deliver a 'full' experience.

I'll remember that. I'll be sure to bring it up every time you say, "I like DMC so therefore can't bring up that many mistakes in it."

So if those games have less flaws in them than other games, I'm biased. Oh lordy, get out.

No, I think I'll stay. This is a DmC subforum for people who like the game. People who don't like the game can either state their criticisms maturely... or get out.

http://devilmaycry.org/community/th...he-new-dante-or-dmc-in-general-read-it.10789/

And by the way, check out all that text. :^)

"I agree that the main campaign is a load of bullshit and it's boring as hell, the only missions I care about are missions 17 and 12."

I have.

You just admitted that the majority of the main campaign --

--which is the reason why most people would play it; not the die-hards who only play Bloody Palace or part of the main game itself to hone their skills --

-- was "bullshit" and "boring as hell".


How can you justify defending such a game and say that it's better than most action games out there, when it can barely compete with them in the first place?

Combat mechanics alone in a game have no redeemable value. DMC4 is no exception.
 

Terrutas

Well-known Member
So you just play like 2 missions over and over again. More power to you but I work for my own money and if I buy a game I better have one that's worth my $60. I don't mind playing through the single player campaigns over and over in its entirety of previous Devil May Cry games and other single player games I own like Arkham City because they are a full fun package. Why should I just drop so much money on something if I'd really find myself doing only like one thing. Hell I did bloody palace the most on DMC 4 just because it was all about the combat but that got boring after a while.


As for some dude who I don't even remember his full name, I don't care. One guy does not make up Ninja Theory. And as far as I'm concerned if he gave a couple comebacks to those obnoxious and stupid fanboys then I don't blame him. There ARE fans of DMC that are obnoxious and annoying little babies that deserve it. If you're going to fling sh!t then don't complain when it gets thrown back at you. He's still just a person who's just doing his job. I've never seen any proof showing he went out of his way to insult the people who are suppose to support him. Show me the proof and I'll join you in your insults at that guy with the weird name and stupid looking hair.
Did...Did we just reach a conclusion? I'm perfectly fine with you not being satisfied with it for $60. You made your point. well done mate.



And the most famous of all is probably this.

dmcq.jpg




Combat mechanics alone in a game has no redeemable value. And DMC4 is no exception.
HAHAHAHA


You seem to forget this is an action game.
I'm done talking to you.
 

Chancey289

Fake Geek Girl.
Did...Did we just reach a conclusion? I'm perfectly fine with you not being satisfied with it for $60. You made your point. well done mate.



And the most famous of all is probably this.

dmcq.jpg





HAHAHAHA


You seem to forget this is an action game.
Go away, I'm done talking to you.
The enemies don't do that though. They give like a scream before they attack but I've never come across any enemies who just stopped or was somehow interrupted. I don't even know what he's asking and this is really no different from the kind of response Hideki Kamiya gives people. I don't give a f*ck really. I don't why you dwell so much on one dude. It's like people have a crush on him or something. If this is enough to get you uptight then why the hell do you praise Kamiya. That dude just seems like a straight up a$$hole at times and he really has no room to talk all high and mighty. Both of them can go f*ck themselves. I don't give a sh!t. I just care about the games.
 

Terrutas

Well-known Member
The enemies don't do that though. They give like a scream before they attack but I've never come across any enemies who just stopped or was somehow interrupted. I don't even know what he's asking and this is really no different from the kind of response Hideki Kamiya gives people. I don't give a f*ck really. I don't why you dwell so much on one dude. It's like people have a crush on him or something. If this is enough to get you uptight then why the hell do you praise Kamiya. That dude just seems like a straight up a$$hole at times and he really has no room to talk all high and mighty. Both of them can go f*ck themselves. I don't give a sh!t. I just care about the games.
Well, it's not that we dwell on him. It's just that he won't shut up, you see. GDC is also an example of his childish bullshit. Photoshopping Dante into images of gay cowboys? I mean what the hell is this? Can't he express his opinion like an adult instead of just making an image, pointing to it and going "HURRHURHURR DATS FUNNY XDDDDDDD DANTE IS SO GAY LOL"

But yeah. You get my point.
 

Demi-fiend

Metempsychosis
Supporter 2014
So you just play like 2 missions over and over again. More power to you but I work for my own money and if I buy a game I better have one that's worth my $60.

I know right? A few fancy combos here and there are never worth $60. Ever.

One guy does not make up Ninja Theory. And as far as I'm concerned if he gave a couple comebacks to those obnoxious and stupid fanboys then I don't blame him. There ARE fans of DMC that are obnoxious and annoying little babies that deserve it. If you're going to fling sh!t then don't complain when it gets thrown back at you.

B-B-BUT.... PROFESSIONALISM. WE DON'T HAVE TO BE PROFESSIONAL. THEY DO.

WE GET A FREE PASS FOR OUR IMMATURITY!!! WAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!1111!!!!111!!1!!!!



I'm going to have to bring this up again, aren't I?

31:12

"It's different when gamers say that's something's gay, or they make photoshop pictures or whatever. Because they're gamers, they're fans. It doesn't matter."


Then he contradicts himself here:

32:20

"As individuals, we all have a right -- we all have a responsibility to be mature."

You heard it from the loudmouth himself. Everyone... gamers and gaming businesses alike... have to be mature. No exceptions.
 

Chancey289

Fake Geek Girl.
Well, it's not that we dwell on him. It's just that he won't shut up, you see. GDC is also an example of his childish bullshit. Photoshopping Dante into images of gay cowboys? I mean what the hell is this? Can't he express his opinion like an adult instead of just making an image, pointing to it and going "HURRHURHURR DATS FUNNY XDDDDDDD DANTE IS SO GAY LOL"

But yeah. You get my point.
I actually thought that was kind of funny because it reminded me of what my friend told me. I was chilling at my friend's house and we were playing the new game. We got in to a conversation about Dante's appearance and my friend who actually is gay made a comment about DMC 4 Dante he said, "Brokeback Dante looked a little too gay. It's like he found a way to wear a cowboy PT Cruiser if that existed. Even us gays think that's too gay."

When he saw that pic recently of the GDC his response was, "motherfucker stole my joke."
 

Chancey289

Fake Geek Girl.
You seem to forget that DMC4 could have been so much more.



Thank Christ. Finally. :ermm:

Now, let's see if you can actually keep your mouth shut this time.
I remember Demon complaining about DmC's free DLC a while back and even when we had to pay for Vergil's Downfall it was only like $8 and was worth it considering how much content came with it and Vergil actually plays rather different from Dante. It's not like playing as Vergil in the special edition of DMC 3 was actually buying the game again and Nero who is suppose to be a "new" character. Not only did he look exactly like Dante but all he really brought to the table combat wise was the grappling moves. Still slashed and shoots like Dante. Not enough to seriously need Nero when I think they should have maybe figured out a way to map that arm to Dante or something.

The demon and Angel pulls are evolutions of both Nero's Arm and Vergil's teleport in one package and it's something that should have been done a long time ago.
 

aoshi

Well-known Member
Totally different. Backtracking in DMC used to mean something, because you had a closed off area that showed you things that you couldn't figure out just yet. It's the old Metroid idea, of making you question your surroundings, and it all played into the puzzles and riddles the franchise used to have. DMC4 had like...no puzzles, and the backtracking wasn't so much backtracking as it was literally going backwards and fighting all the bosses you had previously fought but with a new character and in reverse, instead of giving them their own campaign and enemies to fight. It's lazy, and it is a big deal, because if we just shrug crap like that away, devs will keep doing it.

It's saying something when people crap on Ninja Theory for being a "sh!t developer" and yet they gave us DmC that has two playable characters with their own campaigns and unique enemies. Vergil's Downfall might be short, since it's DLC and all, but at least they tried. DMC4 didn't, they took one of the laziest ways out to lengthen the game.

No. Both have traversing through area of context which is fortuna in DMC 4 and temen-ni-gru in DMC 3. Fortuna is much bigger than temen-ni-gru and diverse. I don't know if you have even played DMC 4. Nero's missions involve platforming sections with devil bringer mechanics. When played as dante, those platforming sections were absent and only those missions which did not require DB traversal were played.

Also, i can't stress the fact that DMC is a hack n slash game with emphasis on combat and fighting enemy patterns than traversal as in platforming games. You jus sound desperate to win an argument. Please give up.


And this just makes you sound like an asshole.

Again , sounding desperate. Try harder.

You're also still ignoring the fact that it's not backtracking in a sense that's actually entertaining, it's lazy implementation. Plus, your statement of "no one is forcing you to play, so you shouldn't complain" is still completely ignorant and seeks to do nothing but whisk away a person's argument

You were defending yourself as to being forced to complete story mode in DMC 4. As i said before, DMC 3 had backtrackin as well and this time with different platforming sections. You're jus arguing on subjective thoughts that "i am forced to complete DMC 4 with backtracking" when DMC 3 had backtracking. Please stop wasting my time.
 

EllDawn

Well-known Member
I've been reading through this thread and just thought I'd say one thing about DMC4 being lazy with the repeated levels. It's not just that you have to go through the same areas again, it's that you're also fighting the same bosses as you did as Nero. Having both is pretty bad. In DMC you fought some bosses multiple times, but it was also in different settings. It didn't feel like a total re-run. Same with DMC3. They even had different attacks, most of the time. That wasn't so with 4. There weren't any differences.

I did have fun playing the games, though I got tired of fighting everything by the time it got to playing as Dante in 4. It became too monotonous. So, I agree with TwoxAcross in that they took the easy, lazy, route.
 

Macabre

Your Friend and Mine
I've been reading through this thread and just thought I'd say one thing about DMC4 being lazy with the repeated levels. It's not just that you have to go through the same areas again, it's that you're also fighting the same bosses as you did as Nero. Having both is pretty bad. In DMC you fought some bosses multiple times, but it was also in different settings. It didn't feel like a total re-run. Same with DMC3. They even had different attacks, most of the time. That wasn't so with 4. There weren't any differences.

I did have fun playing the games, though I got tired of fighting everything by the time it got to playing as Dante in 4. It became too monotonous. So, I agree with TwoxAcross in that they took the easy, lazy, route.

If anything the rematches in 4 were an improvement on DMC1, because the different movesets presented by the two protagonists meant you could approach the battles with them in entirely different ways. I'm still not fond of the conceit, but I still found it gratifying to use Trickster and Royal Guard on the same bosses that I had to rely on Table Hopper and Devil Arm to get by.

I remember Demon complaining about DmC's free DLC a while back and even when we had to pay for Vergil's Downfall it was only like $8 and was worth it considering how much content came with it and Vergil actually plays rather different from Dante. It's not like playing as Vergil in the special edition of DMC 3 was actually buying the game again and Nero who is suppose to be a "new" character. Not only did he look exactly like Dante but all he really brought to the table combat wise was the grappling moves. Still slashed and shoots like Dante.

And he had Table Hopper, the Exceed system which hugely expanded his overall technical potential, easier aerial juggling using Roulette, charged Blue Rose shot that functions differently from Ebony & Ivory's charge strike, Showdown, the different functionality of his DT, all that. I'm not a high level player by any means, and I can see how Nero provides a very different combat experience from Dante beyond the basic "He looks like him and uses a sword/gun combo too!" first impression. Plus the main point with Nero was to provide a simpler character to get to grips with when it comes to the complexities of DMC combat, while still appeasing old hands by providing the main man himself for later play.

I think part of the main people didn't fully appreciate Nero's full repetoire is because it takes a damned long time to acquire all the Proud Souls you need to unlock everything in his movelist, and even after you've put together the dosh to unlock stuff like his Instant Exceed Charge move they're still very tricky to get the most of. I like how it rewards perseverance in play, but it hamstrung a lot of players from getting the most out of him until after they had beaten the main campaign.

The demon and Angel pulls are evolutions of both Nero's Arm and Vergil's teleport in one package and it's something that should have been done a long time ago.

I just wish the enemies and their AI evolved along with it. The enemies in DmC don't have enough aggression or counter tactics to help them fight back against a good Ophion player, and it gives you easy dominance over the battlefield even on upper difficulties. I'd have liked it if they had more techniques to knock you out of the air if you were spamming it for aerial juggles, or if they could counter-grapple players who abuse it too much.

I actually thought that was kind of funny because it reminded me of what my friend told me. I was chilling at my friend's house and we were playing the new game. We got in to a conversation about Dante's appearance and my friend who actually is gay made a comment about DMC 4 Dante he said, "Brokeback Dante looked a little too gay. It's like he found a way to wear a cowboy PT Cruiser if that existed. Even us gays think that's too gay."

When he saw that pic recently of the GDC his response was, "motherfucker stole my joke."

I remember you throwing around Brokeback comparisons like it was some kind of insult too.

http://devilmaycry.org/community/th...ed-for-low-dmc-sales.14539/page-5#post-440999

You should really write for NT, given their appreciation for pithy homophobic comparisons.

View attachment 574

On the subject of story focus, I'll actually go out of my way and point out that DMC4 plot actually has more depth in some places when compared to DmC. In DmC the bad guys are ugly old businessmen who are evil because they are demons and businessmen. The antagonists in 4 are actual human beings who are committing atrocities because they believe it will unify mankind behind a mutual cause.

Just a thought.
 

Chancey289

Fake Geek Girl.
If anything the rematches in 4 were an improvement on DMC1, because the different movesets presented by the two protagonists meant you could approach the battles with them in entirely different ways. I'm still not fond of the conceit, but I still found it gratifying to use Trickster and Royal Guard on the same bosses that I had to rely on Table Hopper and Devil Arm to get by.



And he had Table Hopper, the Exceed system which hugely expanded his overall technical potential, easier aerial juggling using Roulette, charged Blue Rose shot that functions differently from Ebony & Ivory's charge strike, Showdown, the different functionality of his DT, all that. I'm not a high level player by any means, and I can see how Nero provides a very different combat experience from Dante beyond the basic "He looks like him and uses a sword/gun combo too!" first impression. Plus the main point with Nero was to provide a simpler character to get to grips with when it comes to the complexities of DMC combat, while still appeasing old hands by providing the main man himself for later play.

I think part of the main people didn't fully appreciate Nero's full repetoire is because it takes a damned long time to acquire all the Proud Souls you need to unlock everything in his movelist, and even after you've put together the dosh to unlock stuff like his Instant Exceed Charge move they're still very tricky to get the most of. I like how it rewards perseverance in play, but it hamstrung a lot of players from getting the most out of him until after they had beaten the main campaign.



I just wish the enemies and their AI evolved along with it. The enemies in DmC don't have enough aggression or counter tactics to help them fight back against a good Ophion player, and it gives you easy dominance over the battlefield even on upper difficulties. I'd have liked it if they had more techniques to knock you out of the air if you were spamming it for aerial juggles, or if they could counter-grapple players who abuse it too much.



I remember you throwing around Brokeback comparisons like it was some kind of insult too.

http://devilmaycry.org/community/th...ed-for-low-dmc-sales.14539/page-5#post-440999

You should really write for NT, given their appreciation for pithy homophobic comparisons.

View attachment 574

On the subject of story focus, I'll actually go out of my way and point out that DMC4 plot actually has more depth in some places when compared to DmC. In DmC the bad guys are ugly old businessmen who are evil because they are demons and businessmen. The antagonists in 4 are actual human beings who are committing atrocities because they believe it will unify mankind behind a mutual cause.

Just a thought.
Because I'm obviously homophobic. It's not like one of my closest friends who actually is gay was the one who came up with the Brokeback Dante thing in the first place.

And the story in DMC 4, if I remember correctly, is just a bunch of people who are trying to unleash a catastrophe and swoop on in to play hero and rule people under the threat of a mutual enemy. I've seen this before. I can just think of Watchmen of the top of my head when Ozymandias decided to basically do the same thing killing a whole bunch of people in the process.

DmC's plot is for one an obvious social satire and they are demons controlling the world with a passive aggressive fist. Pretty much similar to anyone who's seen the Matrix or They Live. I'm not defending DmC's story because it's pretty weak but so is DMC's plots. In fact they are even weaker. DmC has the better overall narrative because it actually puts a real emphasis on one. Dante has more depth as a character in DmC than he's ever had for example. All these characters up until then were about as complex as coloring books.

DMC doesn't know how to develop characters and can only look at so many other things when it comes to developing the most generic and straightforward plots out there. Quit defending it. It's not good, end of story.
 

Terrutas

Well-known Member
DMC doesn't know how to develop characters and can only look at so many other things when it comes to developing the most generic and straightforward plots out there. Quit defending it. It's not good, end of story
I don't think it doesn't know how to develop, but rather didn't really try.
I also think that being consistent with a story isn't really hard and you'd have to actually try in order to screw it up. Which they did, but then people didn't really play DMC1,3 or 4 for the story now did they? At least most of the people I know who played it haven't.

Besides, I don't get what all the fuss is about all over story. This is a game and you should seriously be focusing more on gameplay than story. If you're looking for a good story, there are visual novels, books, novels, movies and so forth.
I'm not saying there shouldn't be any story whatsoever even though God Hand is a prime example of how a game really should be, and DooM. I'm saying there's no point in working on a story more so than gameplay and then calling it a game. If that makes sense.
 

SpawnShooter

This partys getting crazy
Terru please update this:
http://i.imgur.com/uIVoLrM.png

DmC brought dymanic levels. The graphics is really nice :) Not all of them were spectacular. But definetly DmC added dynamic stages.
But then again is dynamic stages worth so many features removed?

Also have you played MGR?


DmC didn't have dynamic stages, dynamic would imply it was different each time either based on user input or some sort of RNG (the breaking glass floor at one point doesn't really count either, see Diablo for dynamic elements). DmC simply has scripted events that are initialized from proximity, similar to the Echidna chase scene in DMC4 or Phantom in DMC1, DmC just has more stuff floating around which is the cause for the frame rate cap.


EDIT:
Which they did, but then people didn't really play DMC1,3 or 4 for the story now did they? At least most of the people I know who played it haven't.


I did :)
 
Besides, I don't get what all the fuss is about all over story. This is a game and you should seriously be focusing more on gameplay than story. If you're looking for a good story, there are visual novels, books, novels, movies and so forth.
I'm not saying there shouldn't be any story whatsoever even though God Hand is a prime example of how a game really should be, and DooM. I'm saying there's no point in working on a story more so than gameplay and then calling it a game. If that makes sense.

I guess I was in the wrong then for wanting gameplay in my movies and books. No wonder no one took my criticism seriously when I'd discuss a movie and say lack of interactivity ruined the experience.

It all makes sense now. If I wanted to play a game I'd play a game.
1334628464173.jpg
 

Macabre

Your Friend and Mine
This is a game and you should seriously be focusing more on gameplay than story. If you're looking for a good story, there are visual novels, books, novels, movies and so forth.
I'm not saying there shouldn't be any story whatsoever even though God Hand is a prime example of how a game really should be, and DooM. I'm saying there's no point in working on a story more so than gameplay and then calling it a game. If that makes sense.

This is an evolving medium T. Games have the capacity to tell stories that no other medium can, and it's wrong to outright state that you shouldn't look for story in games.

That said, It isn't the primary draw of this franchise or even this genre on the whole, and that the way DmC put a very expensive development focus on it was a poor move. It's not that it couldn't have been done well, it's more that it wasn't what the game needed to become a success.

B-B-BUT.... PROFESSIONALISM. WE DON'T HAVE TO BE PROFESSIONAL. THEY DO.

Yep. Tam is a professional, so he takes on a professional responsibility. Well done.

Anonymous rubes on the internet can't be held accountable for their actions, so of course they aren't. Businessmen taking home a five digit salary are accountable for acting like morons, because it's their job to provide their product with a mature veneer.

Of course everyone should be as mature as possible, but people who are in fact professionals in the public eye have their professions to think about when it comes to writing childish tweets.

Because I'm obviously homophobic. It's not like one of my closest friends who actually is gay was the one who came up with the Brokeback Dante thing in the first place.

And there's that excuse again. It doesn't matter how gay the person stating it is; you're comparing Dante to a film about gay romance as if it's a bad thing, purely because he looks like a cowboy. It's still homophobic, it's still stupid, and it's still Ninja Theory tier wit, as they are happy to demonstrate. I know you are better than that.

I'm not defending DmC's story because it's pretty weak but so is DMC's plots. In fact they are even weaker. DmC has the better overall narrative because it actually puts a real emphasis on one. Dante has more depth as a character in DmC than he's ever had for example. All these characters up until then were about as complex as coloring books.

The storylines and characters in Classic DMC were intentionally simplistic and mostly illustrated through gameplay. There was room to expand upon them certainly, but it was completely functional for the overall experience to work properly. Dante was ludicrous as a character because the gameplay encourages the same eccentricity in the player, and insodoing it provided a character and an interactive experience that no other game has. Devil May Cry invites you to become a person who is larger than life, who loves to engage in impossible and audacious combat inside gameplay and out, whereas most heroes in this genre are happy to simply kill their enemies as efficiently as possible or simply rack up an adequate combo counter. In that way the gameplay serves the characterization in a more intuitive way than any deadpan monologue or dull cutscene can, but in DmC it's actually internally contradictory: DmC Dante no longer cares about being Crazy, so the Style Rating system creates ludonarrative dissonance. Why should I be rewarded for performing ambitious combos and over the top fighting when my character only cares about killing the enemy as quickly as possible?

DmC Dante's character is two note: He hates Demons and he's protective of Kat. This is in no way an improvement on the simplicity of the previous games, and it's execution undermines it's capacity to be considered on an even keel with the old games. What the previous games conveyed to the player with actual gameplay and the occasional brief cutscene, DmC barely gets across with over an hour of non-interactive content and voiceovers, and it's interactive set pieces which attempt to tell it's story are indistinguishable from normal gameplay.

This is the problem with thinking that simply adding more cutscenes and dialogue instantly makes a videogame's story better. Gameplay too has to be integral to the narrative, otherwise you're just pausing a movie to shoot ducks.

And please stop ending posts with "end of story" for the love of God. It makes you look like you can't tolerate other people's opinions on things, and that's unbearably pathetic.

Bottom line, if Devil May Cry is to survive as a franchise, it has to understand why other titles are beating it's sales and find the common ground which will allow it to compete with them. Inundating the game with PLOT isn't the solution, as demonstrated by DmC's feeble sales compared to DMC4, God Of War: Ascension and Metal Gear Rising. End of story.
 
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