The Fine Line of Change

[DragonMaster2010]

I stand corrected. THOUGH I MUST SAY your definitions of inspiration is different than mine. The pic with Dante is a copyish.
If i was inspired by the painting id create something that was original butgave same vibe or message as the painting.


For example Dante having pierce a relatively small demon, and holding sword with demon boduy up with both hands.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

It says his age in that article up on Raptor news that he's in his early 20's....unless that's been canelled out somewhere that I don't know about.

http://www.raptornews.com/article/panic-at-the-disco

When I had asked Tameem on his twitter, he said that late teens was too young. Dante's 20+ in DmC.

 

[Loopy]

When I had asked Tameem on his twitter, he said that late teens was too young. Dante's 20+ in DmC.

So that confirms the Raptor news article too. That's a relief. I thought maybe his age had suddenly been changed and that they forgot to change it on the article as well.

 

[IncarnatedDemon]

Here is a pic how doing something similiar but original and different is my definition of inspirarion.
http://dailyanimeart.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/bleach_502__zaraki_kenpachi_by_wish_man-d58p6at.jpg

that link is very similiar in message compared to the painting.


i know DmC isnt only pne. I just cant get over how copycat the artist was with the pic. But as i elaborated i dont view this as inspiration according to my definition.

anyways jusr went from this guy is god artist to this guy is just a good artist.

 

[Chancey289]

Yeah >_<

Since we a) don't see them engage in any acts that could be considered romantic, and b) Ninja Theory already told us explicitly that Kat was not a romantic interest, the only conclusion would really be that they ain't in love.

I assumed that Kat was actually in love with Vergil. Sure she cared about Dante because he was her friend but if any romantic feelings were going around it was Kat's feelings towards Vergil.

 

[DragonMaster2010]

Here is a pic how doing something similiar but original and different is my definition of inspirarion.
http://dailyanimeart.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/bleach_502__zaraki_kenpachi_by_wish_man-d58p6at.jpg

that link is very similiar in message compared to the painting.


i know DmC isnt only pne. I just cant get over how copycat the artist was with the pic. But as i elaborated i dont view this as inspiration according to my definition.

anyways jusr went from this guy is god artist to this guy is just a good artist.

But you said if you were the artist you'd be original and do your idea, but your idea sterned from that picture, so by the logic, that's copycat too.

 

[IncarnatedDemon]

Dragon that pic of kenpachi is wrong. I suggest holding a body up by piercing it like a sheesh kebab and lifting up sword with body with both hands like a troophy.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

I assumed that Kat was actually in love with Vergil. Sure she cared about Dante because he was her friend but if any romantic feelings were going around it was Kat's feelings towards Vergil.

Kat and Vergil were in love, until Vergil wiped their memories from what he felt was threatening weakness to himself.

 

[Chancey289]

DmC isn't the only game to do that sort of thing...and videogames are not the only medium to be inspired by classic works of art or fiction. You could say DMC copied Dante's inferno considering the themes, the name of the characters and the journey into hell....

DMC takes a lot of influence for names from the Divine Comedy but that's about it. And The Divine Comedy is still a more interesting story than any DMC game.

 

[Chancey289]

Dragon that pic of kenpachi is wrong. I suggest holding a body up by piercing it like a sheesh kebab and lifting up sword with body with both hands like a troophy.

I don't see what it has to do with Devil May Cry and I really just don't care about the pic. I don't like Bleach anyway.

 

[LysseC]

Plus she's like sixteen or seventeen and doing it with a nineteen year old seems a bit too much.

Why? The age difference is not so much...:ermm: I think an age difference of just two or three years is perfectly acceptable... Is it because you're talking about legal age or something like that?

 

[Loopy]

DMC takes a lot of influence for names from the Divine Comedy but that's about it. And The Divine Comedy is still a more interesting story than any DMC game.

Ooops, I did mean The Divine Comedy....but I said Dante's Inferno instead. Got that game on the brain...too many Dante's running through hell.:blush:
There is so much more to The Divine Comedy, you're right, I just meant that DMC draws from it, but just because it does, does not mean it is a plagiarism of The Divine Comedy.

Why? The age difference is not so much...:ermm: I think an age difference of just two or three years is perfectly acceptable... Is it because you're talking about legal age or something like that?

Not much at all. No big deal...well, I guess there could be a lot of maturity difference even in a difference of a few years. Like a 20 year old and a seventten year old. But it's no trouble in DmC because Dante is in his early 20's ....not sure about Kat's age. Was there any offical age given?

 

[Chancey289]

Ooops, I did mean The Divine Comedy....but I said Dante's Inferno instead. Got that game on the brain...too many Dante's running through hell.:blush:
There is so much more to The Divine Comedy, you're right, I just meant that DMC draws from it, but just because it does, does not mean it is a plagiarism of The Divine Comedy.

Inferno is the first part of The Divine Comedy so you're not wrong.

 

[LysseC]

I stand corrected. THOUGH I MUST SAY your definitions of inspiration is different than mine. The pic with Dante is a copyish.
If i was inspired by the painting id create something that was original butgave same vibe or message as the painting.


For example Dante having pierce a relatively small demon, and holding sword with demon boduy up with both hands.

The problem is, this is not a case of inspiartion, but of clear citation of another work. The creative merit in this case is not in creating something different, but in taking something and "repeating" it in a totally different context.

 

[Loopy]

Inferno is the first part of The Divine Comedy so you're not wrong.

:lol: Now I'm just tying myself in knots...that's a relief to know I'm not wrong though. In order it's: Purgatorio, Inferno and Paradiso.....now I don't know if anything I'm saying is right.>_<

That's something they should do in DmC or if they make another DMC game is to take Dante to heaven, or paradise or the angelic realm. I'd like to see their take on that.

 

[LysseC]

:lol: Now I'm just tying myself in knots...that's a relief to know I'm not wrong though. In order it's: Purgatorio, Inferno and Paradiso.....now I don't know if anything I'm saying is right.>_<

That's something they should do in DmC or if they make another DMC game is to take Dante to heaven, or paradise or the angelic realm. I'd like to see their take on that.

Actually, it's Inferno-Purgatorio-Paradiso.
(And Limbo comes from the Divine Comedy too, is the place where Virgilio stays, it's the first circle of hell, but it's not the name of a cantica)
....Sorry for being a Divine Comedy nazi!
And I would really like to see Dante in the angelic realm!! (Fighting angels, obviously!)

 

[IncarnatedDemon]

The problem is, this is not a case of inspiartion, but of clear citation of another work. The creative merit in this case is not in creating something different, but in taking something and "repeating" it in a totally different context.

Others i talked to view it as a inspiration, and i was just sharing with them why i didn't view it as inspiration and went on to explain my definition of it.

Since i am on a laptop and not a smartphone let me be more clearer.

If you copy someones work by alot. Like somewhere around 60% of your pic looks like of the pic you looked at, then your copying.

If youve done it more, like DmC pic (over 80%), then you've made a different copy/and as Lyssec said "citation of another work".

But in my view inspiration is below 60% copying of others work. Let me give you a example ok? I always thought of "If i was to make a hack and slash game i need stinger move, its so good move".
But i didnt want to outright make a copy of it like Darksiders 1 have. Therefor i thought of a stinger where you leap towards a enemy and crush the enemy with the weapon. This way i keep the similarity with Stinger move from DMC where you closer, but at same time the attack is different. Your not stabbing and gliding forward, your jumping a big distance and landing a crush attack

I believe all artists should strive to not copy (when possible) but merely create their own versions of something. And that artists who can do this are far better artists in my eyes than those who copy alot.


I hope this helps in understanding my definition of inspiration.

 

[Chancey289]

Others i talked to view it as a inspiration, and i was just sharing with them why i didn't view it as inspiration and went on to explain my definition of it.

Since i am on a laptop and not a smartphone let me be more clearer.

If you copy someones work by alot. Like somewhere around 60% of your pic looks like of the pic you looked at, then your copying.

If youve done it more, like DmC pic (over 80%), then you've made a different copy/and as Lyssec said "citation of another work".

But in my view inspiration is below 60% copying of others work. Let me give you a example ok? I always thought of "If i was to make a hack and slash game i need stinger move, its so good move".
But i didnt want to outright make a copy of it like Darksiders 1 have. Therefor i thought of a stinger where you leap towards a enemy and crush the enemy with the weapon. This way i keep the similarity with Stinger move from DMC where you closer, but at same time the attack is different. Your not stabbing and gliding forward, your jumping a big distance and landing a crush attack

I believe all artists should strive to not copy (when possible) but merely create their own versions of something. And that artists who can do this are far better artists in my eyes than those who copy alot.


I hope this helps in understanding my definition of inspiration.

Do you have any idea of what you're talking about?

 

[LysseC]

Others i talked to view it as a inspiration, and i was just sharing with them why i didn't view it as inspiration and went on to explain my definition of it.

Since i am on a laptop and not a smartphone let me be more clearer.

If you copy someones work by alot. Like somewhere around 60% of your pic looks like of the pic you looked at, then your copying.

If youve done it more, like DmC pic (over 80%), then you've made a different copy/and as Lyssec said "citation of another work".

But in my view inspiration is below 60% copying of others work. Let me give you a example ok? I always thought of "If i was to make a hack and slash game i need stinger move, its so good move".
But i didnt want to outright make a copy of it like Darksiders 1 have. Therefor i thought of a stinger where you leap towards a enemy and crush the enemy with the weapon. This way i keep the similarity with Stinger move from DMC where you stab + get closer, but at same time the attack is different. Your not stabbing and gliding forward, your jumping a big distance and landing a crush attack

I believe all artists should strive to not copy (when possible) but merely create their own versions of something. And that artists who can do this are far better artists in my eyes than those who copy alot.


I hope this helps in understanding my definition of inspiration.

I totally agree with your definition of "inspiration" as opposed to "copying"/"citation".
But you're not grasping my point. What I'm trying to say is that NT didn't just copy it because they couldn't come up with something new. They are explicitly making it look more than 80% similar because they want to citate it. The difference is that, when you citate something (and not just copy it), you do it so the reference is clear, because you exactly want people to think of the original (which must be recognized as a piece of art, obviously). This is considered something valuable, if it is in small doses (just a picture in the entire game, not the whole game).
The same could be said for Vergil's mask, which clearly reminds us of that of V for Vendetta.
Or, to take an example from literature, the poem "In morte del fratello Giovanni" from Italian poet Ugo Foscolo. This poem is clearly inspired by Catullus's carmen 101, and it even reports carmen 101's last line. Now, the fact that Foscolo cited Catullus is not seen as lack of originality, but of great culture.
That is why citing is not just like copying. Citing is inserting an acculturated reference in an original work, while copying is just, well, copying without originality.

 

[IncarnatedDemon]

I totally agree with your definition of "inspiration" as opposed to "copying"/"citation".
But you're not grasping my point. What I'm trying to say is that NT didn't just copy it because they couldn't come up with something new. They are explicitly making it look more than 80% similar because they want to citate it. The difference is that, when you citate something (and not just copy it), you do it so the reference is clear, because you exactly want people to think of the original (which must be recognized as a piece of art, obviously). This is considered something valuable, if it is in small doses (just a picture in the entire game, not the whole game).
The same could be said for Vergil's mask, which clearly reminds us of that of V for Vendetta.
Or, to take an example from literature, the poem "In morte del fratello Giovanni". This poem is clearly inspired by Catullus's carmen 101, and it even reports carmen 101's last line. Now, the fact that Foscolo cited Catullus is not seen as lack of originality, but of great culture.
That is why citing is not just like copying. Citing is inserting a acculturated reference in an original work, while copying is just, well, copying without originality.

And i agree with your explaination of difference between copying and citing.