rate the combat potential of DmC

[OppressedWriter]

snip

Yeah, but you're assuming that it isn't challenging to be creative with that moveset, the possibilities are endless, and not everyone is doing the same combos I am. The problem with limiting a game is that at the highest level everyone ends up doing the same thing to get past certain enemies and what not. DmC is honestly about using the camera and moveset to craft mini action sequences. I don't think challenge should come from limiting options through deliberately convoluted controls. Though, I don't even think this applies as the comparison between DMC3 and DmC makes no sense to me, because I think DmC is literally what dmc3 would be if it were designed today.

Also, I don't quite understand what you mean by makes combos too easy. So does DMC4 and DMC3, if you're talking about the preset combos, yeah there isn't anything hard about stuff like dance macabre, or nero's devil arm. Hell, I'd argue that DmC is the most player focused, because it has zero scripted super combos like the ones above.

snip

But you're implying streamlining as if its pejorative, and my argument is that DmC has damn near 99% of the tech that DMC4, and unlike DMC4, almost every move Dante has in DmC affects or makes the enemy react differently, the way to do more advanced combos in DmC is understanding the physics properties of each weapon and then using that in creative ways to move and manipulate the placement of enemies during combos.

Angel Mode = Trickster
Human Mode = Swordmaster + Gunslinger
Demon Mode = Royal Guard

The trigger system just makes it so that you can seamlessly choose between those styles when before it was very awkward and required lots of practice to switch modes on the fly.

 

[ef9dante_oSsshea]

A ridiculous amount of practice to style switch weapon switch devil arm switch melee attack shoot use style and enemy step at the same time guard flying and sky running were a bastard to master so was star rave side rave reverse rave Lucifer explosion cancel I lost a year and a half of my life to mastering the JC in dmc4 Sam d is right in that aspect it take serious dedication for dmc4 the reboot gives you those possibilities from the beginning

 

[Caiden]

True that I don't like streamlining. But again that doesn't mean it's bad. It's just my preference. I had no trouble switching styles and if the triggers were meant to mimic them, than I think they are sort of sub par. I can get what they are going for but I just don't like the fact that there are two dodge buttons just for the purpose of angel and demon dodge. And it would be a bit of a stretch to compare the angel and demon modes to the original styles and act as if they are basically the same. The style switch might be faster but I find that there is much less depth put into the styles.

 

[Caiden]

A ridiculous amount of practice to style switch weapon switch devil arm switch melee attack shoot use style and enemy step at the same time guard flying and sky running were a ******* to master so was star rave side rave reverse rave Lucifer explosion cancel I lost a year and a half of my life to mastering the JC in dmc4 Sam d is right in that aspect it take serious dedication for dmc4 the reboot gives you those possibilities from the beginning

And again that is not something I prefer. It feels as if I can just hold down the triggers and I have become a master. I like learning a game and adapting to its gameplay. In DmC it feels like a lot of it's gameplay elements are handed to you. I get frustrated at times with the difficulty of previous DMC games, but that just means once I have mastered my own gameplay style I will be able to get through the more difficult parts.

I am a lover of Dark Souls because in order to get through that game on your own you really have to learn the combat and bosses. I think it is better when the game does less for you and requires you to do more on your own. I can see why someone wouldn't enjoy that but it is how I like to play.

 

[AcidX_Y]

And again that is not something I prefer. It feels as if I can just hold down the triggers and I have become a master. I like learning a game and adapting to its gameplay. In DmC it feels like a lot of it's gameplay elements are handed to you. I get frustrated at times with the difficulty of previous DMC games, but that just means once I have mastered my own gameplay style I will be able to get through the more difficult parts.

I am a lover of Dark Souls because in order to get through that game on your own you really have to learn the combat and bosses. I think it is better when the game does less for you and requires you to do more on your own. I can see why someone wouldn't enjoy that but it is how I like to play.

I like difficulty in games but id rather not spend 1.5 years learning how to play a single player game.

 

[OppressedWriter]

And again that is not something I prefer. It feels as if I can just hold down the triggers and I have become a master. I like learning a game and adapting to its gameplay. In DmC it feels like a lot of it's gameplay elements are handed to you. I get frustrated at times with the difficulty of previous DMC games, but that just means once I have mastered my own gameplay style I will be able to get through the more difficult parts.

I am a lover of Dark Souls because in order to get through that game on your own you really have to learn the combat and bosses. I think it is better when the game does less for you and requires you to do more on your own. I can see why someone wouldn't enjoy that but it is how I like to play.

I love dark souls as well, but to be honest, that is not a difficult game at all, and I'm not just saying that either, because I put in well over 300 hours playing it. Although, it's funny you mention Dark Souls, I think that's really what is, you're more of a slowed paced reaction type player. Unfortunately, DmC is really not ideal if you're a turtler, it is a game designed for people who play rushdown.

Anyway, about the triggers, that makes absolutely no sense, its just better controls, it wasn't designed to jsut make it easy. It was designed because it makes more sense since the game was trying to let you have access to dante's moveset on the fly. In DMC4, it was the same goal, they didn't make the controls difficult and clunky because of challenge or design, it was just because they were rushed and couldn't implement them properly. DMC3 doesn't suffer from this flaw because it has one style at a time and the controls feel natural when only dealing with one style. DMC4 literally just copied DMC3's controls but let you toggle styles with D Pad, and it showed, Dante's style switching is not smooth and seamless and you really have to train yourself in a non intuitive way to utilize it fully.

Basically, I think that you are incorrect in assuming that the controls for DMC4 were purposefully convoluted to make the game harder, because I don't believe that was the case at all. I think it that they were rushed with Dante and just through all the styles on there without any testing or polish.

Actually, try to think of it this way, imagine if dark souls just decided to map all its buttons upside down and backwards, but remained the same game. Would you say because the control scheme felt totally illogical that the game was legitimately more challenging now, because you had to force your brain to adapt to something that made no sense.

In conclusion, DmC is about doing stylish combos and racking high scores, play DmC on DMD with constant aggression as if you're trying to string together one seamless combo during each encounter. It's not about surviving, or being frustrated, but more about can I perform the most varied, aesthetically satisfying combo without being interrupted. I mean, the game could have easily dropped a dreamrunner and witch in every encounter, and then you would have people whining that its no fun.

 

[ef9dante_oSsshea]

[quoonlyY, post: 531559, member: 26160"]I like difficulty in games but id rather not spend 1.5 years learning how to play a single player game.[/quote]

It only took me 1.5 years to master every bit of JC in dmc4 because I run a garage and I was on Xbox and not PC so I'd no debug mode to make enemies invincible to practice on plus it was solely to master moves I'd the game well beaten before and

 

[AcidX_Y]

It only took me 1.5 years to master every bit of JC in dmc4 because I run a garage and I was on Xbox and not PC so I'd no debug mode to make enemies invincible to practice on

Exactly, your not going to spend every waking moment practising; you have other things to do.

 

[ef9dante_oSsshea]

[e="AcidX_Y, post: 531565, member: 26160"]Exactly, your not going to spend every waking moment practising; you have other things to do.[/quote]

Very true it was worth putting the time in though as it made Dante feel like a god when I play as him in bp or on DMD I rarely fight on the ground since its not as much fun

 

[OppressedWriter]

It only took me 1.5 years to master every bit of JC in dmc4 because I run a garage and I was on Xbox and not PC so I'd no debug mode to make enemies invincible to practice on plus it was solely to master moves I'd the game well beaten before and

Yeah, that's all well/good and totally admirable. I've put in a disgusting amount of hours into DmC and know the game like the back of my hand. What I like though is that in DmC, I got better because I just kept having fun, I got better through playing the actual game over and over, and that is sadly one of the things that disappoints me about DMC4, its no fun to replay the main campaign. There's this great combat system in search of a pure action game and not a resident evil/adventure/rpg hybrid, thats why we see so many combos in bloody palace debug mode, its very hard to style while just playing the game normally.

 

[OppressedWriter]

two dodge buttons just for the purpose of angel and demon dodge. And it would be a bit of a stretch to compare the angel and demon modes to the original styles and act as if they are basically the same. The style switch might be faster but I find that there is much less depth put into the styles.

It's really not a stretch honestly, the actual movesets are indentical, I did a comparison video a while back but never finished because it was just a bit too tedious to go through all the moves for both Dante's since he has so many of them.

As for the dodges, its not forced on the player to use both, they just mapped both in case, if players want to change them and most advanced players do like most DMC games they can fully rebind keys in the options menu. I'm pretty sure almost every player who plays DmC a lot has gunspecial or shoot in place of one of the dodges and moves deviltrigger to dpaddown.

 

[VOLPE]

It's really not a stretch honestly, the actual movesets are indentical, I did a comparison video a while back but never finished because it was just a bit too tedious to go through all the moves for both Dante's since he has so many of them.

As for the dodges, its not forced on the player to use both, they just mapped both in case, if players want to change them and most advanced players do like most DMC games they can fully rebind keys in the options menu. I'm pretty sure almost every player who plays DmC a lot has gunspecial or shoot in place of one of the dodges and moves deviltrigger to dpaddown.

Ok so what evade is "better" evade 1 or 2 i ask because if i can free up a button im happy

 

[VOLPE]

It's really not a stretch honestly, the actual movesets are indentical, I did a comparison video a while back but never finished because it was just a bit too tedious to go through all the moves for both Dante's since he has so many of them.

As for the dodges, its not forced on the player to use both, they just mapped both in case, if players want to change them and most advanced players do like most DMC games they can fully rebind keys in the options menu. I'm pretty sure almost every player who plays DmC a lot has gunspecial or shoot in place of one of the dodges and moves deviltrigger to dpaddown.

and lol its so true that i was thinking of putting DT as either up or down on the dpad its weird how common that is

 

[ef9dante_oSsshea]

[quoteonessedWriter, post: 531568, member: 24625"]Yeah, that's all well/good and totally admirable. I've put in a disgusting amount of hours into DmC and know the game like the back of my hand. What I like though is that in DmC, I got better because I just kept having fun, I got better through playing the actual game over and over, and that is sadly one of the things that disappoints me about DMC4, its no fun to replay the main campaign. There's this great combat system in search of a pure action game and not a resident evil/adventure/rpg hybrid, thats why we see so many combos in bloody palace debug mode, its very hard to style while just playing the game normally.[/quote]

Well on dmd its easy to style dude I can style just as much in gameplay in mission 12 and 15 to 17 more so for dante and especially in mission 17 by re-entering rooms wuth frosts and mephistos and angelos and blitz nero can stye in his missions too its just well fir me bloody palace is simply more fun to style in due to the number of enemies I actually play more on Xbox than PC as its what I am more used to although LDK mode was fun ha and GMD debug is fun when you wanna make it interesting thoughits weird I prefer dmc4 ad dmc3 on console but I prefer the reboot on PC probably over the fps

 

[TWOxACROSS]

Ok so what evade is "better" evade 1 or 2 i ask because if i can free up a button im happy

There's no difference, it's just Dodge Button 1 and Dodge Button 2. Pick whichever

 

[VOLPE]

There's no difference, it's just Dodge Button 1 and Dodge Button 2. Pick whichever

Damn :/ well that sux they should be diff so players can have there own preference like one should have a longer range of dodge and the other should be quicker movement in the dodge

 

[ef9dante_oSsshea]

Well one dodge has a teleport/phase move and the other if timed right gives a damage and score bonus I only tend to use demon dodge against dream runners if they break out of an attack chain in the air which isnt very often once you learn to read there patterns angel dodge s fun though especially when used with glide and Aquila dash and richochet

 

[OppressedWriter]

Dodge question

It's just like mapping jump to two separate buttons, its just what feels more comfortable, the dodges do act differently based on if they're combined with angel trigger or demon trigger. My guess is that because it probably felt more natural for the casual players to have a trigger modified dodge function next to each trigger. Anyway, I personally have dodge on L1, and Shoot on R1. DT is dpad down. Gunspecial is Y. Main attack is X, the rest is default.

 

[OppressedWriter]

style

That's not exactly what I mean, I mean DmC is literally arcade like levels its just straight to the point, you press play, rack up points, try to beat your score, there's no looking for rooms, no puzzles, just combat encounters in great looking environments. It's specifically designed not to waste your time with anything else but combat encounters.

 

[VOLPE]

It's just like mapping jump to two separate buttons, its just what feels more comfortable, the dodges do act differently based on if they're combined with angel trigger or demon trigger. My guess is that because it probably felt more natural for the casual players to have a trigger modified dodge function next to each trigger. Anyway, I personally have dodge on L1, and Shoot on R1. DT is dpad down. Gunspecial is Y. Main attack is X, the rest is default.

im planning...

attack-x
special-y
jump-a
evade-b
left bumper-angel weapon
right trigger-shoot
left trigger- devil weapon
up d pad-Devil trigger
right bumper-Centre camera