Demi-fiend
Metempsychosis
Off-topic:
Hey, is it possible to install a Vergil skin on the Dante campaign? Just asking out of curiosity...
rate the combat potential of DmC
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Hey, is it possible to install a Vergil skin on the Dante campaign? Just asking out of curiosity...
OppressedWriter
SamD
Yeah, but only the super vergil costume, and some of the weapons get placed in weird sockets on the skeleton, like the eryx becomes a baton with fists on both ends.
Demi-fiend
Metempsychosis
Weird... you got any screenshots of that?
Stylish Nero
We Dem Boys!!
Then why not Capcom do it?I mean NT weren't the same team that made that one patch but a small research and development team at Capcom USA and the fact there was 10 guys from Capcom who too worked on the game so they're familiar with the game's coding than a random hired dev asked to make a port so they don't need NT's know how of the game's programming especially for something so "simple".
Plus if it was so easy why wasn't it applied the first time or within the DLC or the BP patch.....but then again boss fights. Even if you can fight Vergil with Vergil (from Dante's campaign) doesn't mean you can rest of the bosses because they're not like the Vergil boss fight. The real issue is making Dante and Vergil compatible with EVERYTHING not somethings otherwise how will Vergil be able to get to Vergil in BP when he can't get passed the Poison, Hunter, and the rest.
There are 3 options to make boss fights compatible with all characters in a game not just DmC are:
A. Redesign the bosses to work with Vergil. I mean in DMC4 the bosses were designed primarily for Nero but had aspects designed for Dante making him fighting them possible and have handicaps available for Dante. The only boss in DMC4 that they both can't fight is the Savior and its not a matter of Nero can't fight him its more of a matter due to Nero's lack of ranged attacks its HARD to fight him as Nero. Although that is a lot of work for a patch.
B. Ambiguous Boss Fights. Basically what boss fights from games like NG, DMC1-3 (some of DMC4), MegaMan games, or just old school games. Games become a bit too overly cinematic and are designed like that (with QTEs and other stuff scripted and tailored to a specific character or character type). Its not a problem but if you want to have all characters playable and easily fit into any part of the game with ease the game must be designed to be ambiguous so anyone or any character can function in it or easily function in it. Hell even the Vergil boss fights in DmC were ambiguously designed...or close to it. This is something that must be designed from the start.
C. Flexible Character and Boss Designs. If option B is too bland and not as cool as making boss fights look cool and dynamic I recommend flexible boss designs alongside flexible character designs. A mixture of option A and option B that means all characters are designed to with any boss or any boss is designed to work with any character. Its basically what DMC4's boss fights functioned like. Its like the later MegaMan X games where that X, Zero, and even Axl possess different weapons, techniques, and moves but they have a move that can affect any of the bosses and either produce the same after effect or something different.
Its also funny how the bosses Dante and Vergil CAN fight are Vergil and another version of Vergil.
Its funny cause Hollow Vergil reuses assets of Vergil with some changes and alterations/additions. Its probably more reasons than that why those bosses can be fought with either of the 2.
Demi-fiend
Metempsychosis
Dark Souls and Skyrim allowed people to fix the game for them for free. Why do they get a free pass and DmC doesn't?
Caiden
Well-known Member
Free pass? Do you not remember people getting thoroughly ****ed about the bugs of Skyrim and the bad PC port of Dark Souls. It defiantly happened. But Dark Souls already had a dedicated fan base specifically for that game so it didn't really matter that much. There was so much extra content in Skyrim that once the problems were fixed people just didn't care anymore.
OppressedWriter
SamD
I don't know why Capcom won't do it. It doesn't change my initial explanation. They did not want to do it, designing a game as big as this isn't so easy. When I say easy, I mean because the coding is so well done, and file structure is very organized, it could be done with some polish and ease. This does not mean oh it was so easy to program the whole game, all those lazy coders, no they coded a really tight and neatly packaged game engine, which is why I can mod so many things with relative ease.
Also, the Vergil boss fight it has nothing to do with reusing same assets, its because those fights contain all the data for the fight in themselves, the boss fight files are bigger than the other boss files, so since they work independently from the others the game has no problem loading them. Hell, it still loads the cutscenes, except Dante is just missing so Vergil is fighting air.
Another thing about poison and what, I can actually fight those bosses just fine, you can't pull there body parts but that has nothing to do with cut scenes, its simply because Vergil's pull lacks the proper attribute for the game to know that it is a proper pull. It's as simple as making an exception for his pull to make those fights work exactly the same way.
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Caiden
Well-known Member
Didn't say that they were not similar but the original style system seems to have more depth in general.
OppressedWriter
SamD
No one got ****ed about Skyrim, part of playing on the PC is enjoying mods and what not. Skyrim didn't become so big because it was a pos, it was because it a great game that had unlimited potential through its history of mod support. Dark Souls also wasn't a big deal, either, granted they should have added a graphics options, but that was it. The mods didn't change anything else, but allow higher resolution graphics.
Also, I made a video specifically for you, showing you trickster and swordmaster in DmC vs DMC4. You should look at it.
OppressedWriter
SamD
Depth, what do you mean by depth, I don't think you are using that word properly. If you can do the same things with the combat system, then they both have equivalent combat depth. Convoluted controls that artifically increase difficulty do not make a game have more depth. It's like you equate frustration with depth, which makes zero sense.
Demi-fiend
Metempsychosis
Yeah, well... you know how it is. Fan logic.
Also I heard the PC version of Dark Souls was almost broken. It really did need modding.
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Caiden
Well-known Member
I still fail to understand how the D pad is "Convoluted" I have never had trouble switching styles. I mean depth in that when comparing the style system to the angel and demon modes, it seems to me that the styles have more content. Also my idea of "depth" has to do with possibilities. If done well you can use each style multiple times in a single combo and get well rewarded for doing so.
Caiden
Well-known Member
No one got ****ed about Skyrim? Are you serious? Should have spent some time on their forums cause there were plenty of people getting angry. I was ****ed.
OppressedWriter
SamD
and you can't do that in DmC? What possibilities are you talking about? Even in that video, Rebellion combo B doesn't actaully exist in DmC, but because the system is so flexible I can recreate a scripted power combo from DMC4. That is the definition of depth when it comes to a free flow combat system.
Yes the forums, the place the vocal minority resides. Skyrim sold 7 million copies or 10 million something insane. The thing is usually only people with problems show up on message boards for games. Half the time its actually people with **** computers at least on PC bitching about pointless glitches . Yes, Skyrim is massive, every once in a while you might get stuck in a mountain, and have to use quick travel to get out, not a huge deal.
So you're mad because its called a different thing now, it doesn't matter that all the functionality of those styles and combo potential still exists, jsut that its mapped to a more organic and seamless control system. Using triggers to modify buttons is just a much more fluid way to switch weapons than toggling them. And you can still quick cancel all the attacks if you time if you rapid toggle the weapons on the dpad while on each mode.
OppressedWriter
SamD
Watch this, are you seriously saying that you can't switch up attacks and perform elaborate combos with DmC's adaptation of the style attacks.
Styles:btw, trickstr and royal guard in DmC both have two weapons each.
DmC Style Color Chart:
White-Swordmaster
Blue-Trickster
Yellow-Gunslinger
Red-Royal Guard
So, heres the breakdown.
Rebellion 3 strikes
Stinger Trillion Stabs Cancel into Osiris Prop Shredder cancel into Invert Rainstorm evade cancel into Arbiter Drop.
Angel Boost (Sky Star Glide) inertia into Eryx Showdown.
Angel Dodge (Trick down)
Rebellion 2 strikes into Rebellion High Time
Ebony Ivory
Osiris Prop
Eryx Snake Eyes
Ebony Ivory
Angel Pull into reverse helmbreaker
Start charging ricoshot, Stinger into trillion stabs to finish:synced with level 3 just charge release Ricoshot.
Arbitrer Flush into Kabloeey Detonation.
Yeah, I guess you're right looks like its extremely limited how much you can mix and match between the various move sets and combos.
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Caiden
Well-known Member
I am not saying you can't. You act as if I am saying DmC can't do any of these things. It can do most of them but I find that DMC is system built much more around a player finding their preferred string of combos. I just don't like that when I play DmC I do things in a very mindless fashion and can get through most of the fights. I never really keep track of the combos I have performed because I don't really have to. In DMC4 when I find something that works for me I stick to it and develop it. Everytime I play DMC4 I find myself mixing up my own combos and it usually pays off. I am sure you can do the same in DmC but you do really have to because the game usually fills in the blanks. The gameplay feels as if it doesn't involve the player as much.
I should say now that this is all my OWN opinion. DmC gameplay works just fine and I can see why someone would like it more. But for ME. I choose the originals. I am not trying to discourage it's gameplay.
OppressedWriter
SamD
The problem is that DmC takes the essense of DMC combat to its logical conclusion, its the ultimate free flow system, unlike most other action games, you are expected to take all these moves and create a plethora of original stylish combos with them. The problem with wanting enemies like you seem to desire is that it would limit the possibilities of players to improvise with the free flow combat system. I mean the more explicit you make it for certain enemies to die from certain tactics the more you limit player creativity when it comes to fighting them. At some point, all high level players end up killing that enemy a certain tactical way, oh use this weapon, cuz it does most damage and stuns them into a corner, then just jc a litlte bit, open this.
The most baffling thing about this preference you have is that if this is really what you enjoy, then you shouldn't have an issue with color coordinated enemies, because it forces you to utilize certain tactics to beat them when dealing with mixed crowds. All the color coded thing does is make it apparent that this creature is going to parry every attack besides the one from this weapon. That is not any different from enemies in DMC4 being able to block or absorb more damage from certain weapons than others.
VineBigBoss
GGXRD <3
But this can't be done in all games in this franchise...? I mean, you can always add command moves in the middle of combos since the first DMC, with DMC3 they added weapon switch to the mix too and RG gives you some cancel opportunities with good frame adv since DMC3 too. What you're saying is that you can recreate the aesthetical by channeling different moves? I don't know if you're meaning this is something new to the franchise, but as i record it was always this way, unless DmC has something special that i've missed. And do you have in mind that this is not exactly the same as having dedictated moves created by design? I think a good example for you to think about is Dance Macabre, stinger > million stabs and Reb combo B in DMC4, they look exactly the same movements but are different by design, one (cool) special property from dance macabre is that the monster will only die in the last hit (the sword "home run"), and it staggers monsters diferently in juggle state (that's why you'll see some cool combos ending with dance macabre with the enemy in juggle state).
Stylish Nero
We Dem Boys!!
I wouldn't call Demon Mode the equivalent of Royal Guard its more like Nero's Exceed System mixed with Table Hopper and the Devil Bringer snatch added in. A timed dodge that grants a temporary damage boost (like Exceed) and can bring in foes nothing like that screams defensive properties but more or less counter evasive and spacial manipulation between enemies.
Plus wouldn't the fact you can't access half of your arsenal without the modes (the other 4 melee weapons) and the fact the other weapons have Rebellions other known moves in THEIR moveset say SwordMaster is just applied to the weapons in general and Gunslinger to the guns.
Plus SwordMaster to well DMC3 and DMC4 are added extra moves for the melee weapons mapped to another button outside the basic melee button (same can be said about Gunslinger). The fact that the weapons couldn't fit all the SwordMaster techniques that they had to be dispersed to other other weapons and not given a good replacement.
Plus what is swordmaster is subjective considering in DMC3 Drive was a regular Rebellion skill but in DMC4 it was a SwordMaster skill. I guess DMC1 and DMC2 had swordmaster in them (well it wasn't a stretch for DMC2 considering Rebellion did had a lot of nifty moves).
Yeah I can say its Sword Master but its not the same as how it was in DMC4 so to be able to chain a Stinger into a Prop I need to switch from Rebellion to Osiris.
I think DmC's "Sword Master" could've benefited better if the launch button could do more than one attack and have input attacks like basic melee buttons and technically not be called a launch button but a "Special Button".
OppressedWriter
SamD
Actually DmC does have the same effect, enemies don't die from trillion stabs and only from the final hit of it, the stinger launch. In fact, a lot of other moves have this property as well, which is why you end up getting slo mo finishers with various combos on the proper strikes. The other one I know for sure is Osiris Prop Shredder, that's how come if you can get 2-3 enemies with varying levels of health in a shredder, they all seem to Sync die at the same time.
As for the moves having different properties, that's the whole basis of DmC's combat system, because every attack makes the enemy react a different way, moves have short launches, hover launches, high launches, short kos, long kos, every attack will impact the enemy differently and you are supposed to use to this create elaborate set ups if you see fit.
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OppressedWriter
SamD
Now when it comes to royal guard, well its been brought into DmC through the parry system, where every attack can be parried. However, the reason I believe ERYX is the best equivalent of Royal Guard is that it is the only weapon that if you break a parry with a just charge attack it will damage the enemy in addition to stun them. No other parry will do this. Also, when you charge eryx Dante stands perfectly still in a manner similar to how royal guard made you stationary, and if you just release the Eryx punch at the right time it will parry the attack and damage the enemy at the same time.
This makes zero sense, you couldn't just prop shredder without being in a specific style, so you could do a few rebellion hits without swordmaster and had to switch to swordmaster to do propshredder. Now its just a natural hold trigger to switch into a different weapon that has a specific type of launcher.
They have one osiris propshredder, and aquilas has roundtrip, what else?
See above, also gunspecial dedicated button for additional moves with guns....
But there isn't any moves missing, so I don't see why that's how it should have been. It's elegant the way it is, prop shredder is moved into Osiris because it makes logical sense with that weapon, and it keeps the logical system of launchers and droppers on the same button. It's not a clusterfuck, where up is down and down is up and this is going to helmbreaker, and this is going to dodge but not when in this style, but in this style. Everything naturally flows from its logical precedent. The whole point is they kept all the flexibility and made it way more logical. Making some sort of hybrid of a style button and the new system would be a terrible idea and end up being convoluted once again. The system has to be designed around it self.
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