rate the combat potential of DmC

[mrrandomlulz]

I'm glad that they removed the throw cars at enemy's bit, but I do wish we had the brutal stuff like poking eyes out with cigarettes, that would have been a pretty solid way to integrate taunts while keeping the awesome slo mo kill cam.

Well, I don't really enjoy the idea of Cigarettes in a DMC game.
Besides, Cigars are WAY more badass.
If you are gonna smoke, don't be a filter-using wimp

 

[OppressedWriter]

Well, I don't really enjoy the idea of Cigarettes in a DMC game.
Besides, Cigars are WAY more badass.
If you are gonna smoke, don't be a filter-using wimp

Maybe not a cig, but something equally brutal, like you could impale a demon's head with ebony or ivory and shoot through skull at other enemies, stuff like that.

 

[InfernalOverkill]

One of the biggest advantages DMC has over DmC is that. As clearly shown in the 2011 demos, . This one initially was supposed to stray away from stylishness and into brutality. In the final build, it did get a lot closer to that DMC feel, but at the same time, you could SEE where it sacrificed fast-paced stylish action, for brutality. Heck just look at the combat rankings, it all is "BRUTAL!" and "SADISTIC!" and not one mention of Stylishness.
This takes away the part that made DMC unique and just turns it into another stereotypical action game.

Another thing is that, say what you want about the original DMC's story, but it was a story DESIGNED to fit the gameplay, with DmC, it's vice versa.
I also should remind you people that the Dante in this game didn't even VAGUELY resemble the original Dante until the 2012 Captivate trailer. The Dante of the original trailer actually JABBED A CIGARETTE into a demon's eye, not to mention the finishing moves and such. This supports both of my points above.

I'm really curious as to what the original story was going to be. Dante captured and going through brainwashing, him being clearly mentally unstable, etc.

 

[ef9dante_oSsshea]

Yeah, I've seen that video a few times, like I said DmC just lacks the teleport effect with the angel pull, so it can't look quite as dynamic when angel boosting and calburing back to the target. But its important to keep in mind that this is not because DmC couldn't do it, just well, DmC Dante was designed as a cross between Nero and DMC4 Dante.

Oh i know I was just showing the video so you and everyone else would see why I love to guard fly with inertia and sky run its easier to show why I love it than to explain it ha

 

[Meier]

I'm really curious as to what the original story was going to be. Dante captured and going through brainwashing, him being clearly mentally unstable, etc.

That's still cannon I think. Basically the orphanage in which he grew up in was run by demons and they subjected him to tortuous propaganda. He escaped and then led his life as a vagrant ever since.

 

[Meier]

Oh I guess I should say something on topic here rather than just a pass by reply to something.
Combat potential in itself is a debatable and huge topic. I would say that DmC has huge potential.

The baseline combos and on the fly weapon switching allow for a large amount of moves. Without linking anything from jump/dodge/gun/launcher cancels, you can perform many moves. 2 ground combos per weapons alone (10), then you can use an alt combo for each weapon linked into another one (reb->osi, osi->reb, erx->arb, etc.). 5 weapons for every four options gives you (5 * 4 = 20). So that's 30 combos on ground alone without cancels or links. Air combos have almost as many combos (since Eryx and Arbiter have only one strike in air).

When you use the canceling system you open up every single strike to be disrupted and continued on through your combo. That right there adds in so much depth to the combat system. Another thing to consider is timing based attacked, such as the charge release of osiris and eryx moves. The launcher button extends this as well.

Overall and in comparison to the other games I would say that DmC uses the combo system in a more elegant and intuitive approach. The pinnacle of the original series (DMC 4 with Dante, not Nero) had more moves at your disposal, but the user was forced into using the cancel system to its fullest in order to reach the highest combos. For me, I like the finesse of sometimes holding back and waiting for a charge or explosion to amplify my combo. If you are going for shear numbers of attacks, yeah the originals win, but I think honestly that the new one mixes it up a bit more for variety. Nero's Exceed charging though took DMC4 to another level, but the problem was his limited weapon set compared to Dante. All in all I would say that DmC is on even footing with DMC4 due to the balance in pros and cons between both games.

 

[Stylish Nero]

That's still cannon I think. Basically the orphanage in which he grew up in was run by demons and they subjected him to tortuous propaganda. He escaped and then led his life as a vagrant ever since.

So this

Turned into this

Well sex and violence is a good way to pent your mental frustration and disorder.

 

[Meier]

So this

Turned into this

Well sex and violence is a good way to pent your mental frustration and disorder.

That's not what I was saying. The teaser demo Dante didn't just morph into a polygamist. The concepts of him being tortured at a young age were always kept in with the script. The 30 second demonstration of a game in very early development sometimes doesn't look like the end product.

Dante's actions in youth are basically immature and foolish. He basically falls into what many disenfranchised youth fall into, but through the course of the game he grows beyond that.

Edit:
Also that second picture is basically a hilarious parody of renaissance work. Frequently in that time you would see pictures like that, but with Jesus at the center and half naked angles around him. With DmC they added tats to the angels and replaced Jesus with Dante in bed.

 

[Stylish Nero]

That's not what I was saying. The teaser demo Dante didn't just morph into a polygamist. The concepts of him being tortured at a young age were always kept in with the script. The 30 second demonstration of a game in very early development sometimes doesn't look like the end product.

Dante's actions in youth are basically immature and foolish. He basically falls into what many disenfranchised youth fall into, but through the course of the game he grows beyond that.

Edit:
Also that second picture is basically a hilarious parody of renaissance work. Frequently in that time you would see pictures like that, but with Jesus at the center and half naked angles around him. With DmC they added tats to the angels and replaced Jesus with Dante in bed.

Oh wait....weren't you someone who was laid off from Capcom?

 

[Meier]

Oh wait....weren't you someone who was laid off from Capcom?

You got it. In charge of the QA for DmC. Was also responsible for DMC collection, Ducktales, D&D and others.

Edit: They laid me off with Svenson and a significant portion of the company back in July. They just finished the job a couple weeks ago with the remainder of the QA team since DR3 is out now. Sucks to be treated like a piece of trash, but hey that's our ****ty video game industry for you. So many just capitulate and accept this routine 3 year layoff that nothing gets changed out of it. Its worker oppression basically. They keep too many people in contractor status where they are work to hire. Work to hire basically means that you can be let go for any reason whatsoever. Its a horrible work a round to legit workers rights and human conditions. So since basically all game companies keep people in contract positions, everyone is too afraid to do anything legit to combat crappy pay and injustice. Typically you are protected under US constitution to strike for better wages etc. With work to hire you can be fired for anything including striking for better work conditions. I wasn't contracted at Capcom, but all of my testers were for DmC. All but two people were outsourced to Canada at VMC. The two internal people were contracted through VMC's sister company Volt. The struggle for this game was not simply arguing against capcom japan to make it a harder game (you heard that right), but to also strengthen the cause for more internal full time jobs. The new consoles however gave a big bullcrap reason to lay people off, so they took it.

 

[Stylish Nero]

You got it. In charge of the QA for DmC. Was also responsible for DMC collection, Ducktales, D&D and others.

Edit: They laid me off with Svenson and a significant portion of the company back in July. They just finished the job a couple weeks ago with the remainder of the QA team since DR3 is out now. Sucks to be treated like a piece of trash, but hey that's our ****ty video game industry for you. So many just capitulate and accept this routine 3 year layoff that nothing gets changed out of it. Its worker oppression basically. They keep too many people in contractor status where they are work to hire. Work to hire basically means that you can be let go for any reason whatsoever. Its a horrible work a round to legit workers rights and human conditions. So since basically all game companies keep people in contract positions, everyone is too afraid to do anything legit to combat crappy pay and injustice. Typically you are protected under US constitution to strike for better wages etc. With work to hire you can be fired for anything including striking for better work conditions. I wasn't contracted at Capcom, but all of my testers were for DmC. All but two people were outsourced to Canada at VMC. The two internal people were contracted through VMC's sister company Volt. The struggle for this game was not simply arguing against capcom japan to make it a harder game (you heard that right), but to also strengthen the cause for more internal full time jobs. The new consoles however gave a big bullcrap reason to lay people off, so they took it.

Wait you wanted to make the game harder or prevent it from getting harder?

 

[Meier]

Wait you wanted to make the game harder or prevent it from getting harder?

I showed how in DMC 1 you can die from 6 attacks from the fodder enemies. I also side by side showed that it took 20 attacks on "hard mode" on DmC. I told them to make it harder. This is a quote from Capcom japan "We did our internal review of the game and think from beginning to end that it is fair to the user and any additional difficulty would be unfair to the Japanese user." Capcom Japan is entirely why the game is easier. That is the bullshit of our NDAs. Right now I don't care to release the truth. I was the one who fought for the difficulty change that was later issued in the patch. Eshiro the producer in Japan denied it at first but conveniently okay-ed it 1 day before we were going to submit out patch. That resulted in the patch being obviously delayed before 1st day launch.

Edit: I also heavily emphasised that all aprehension against the new game was entirely because people thought that "westernization" meant making the game easier. I was trying to tell those assholes that they needed to make easy meduim and hard much more pronounced to give people significant satisfaction. They asked me where my research came from and I mentioned basically all the forums I have seen such as this, NeoGaf, Gamefaqs, IGN, any youtube posting of anything dmc. So there's your answer.

 

[Stylish Nero]

I showed how in DMC 1 you can die from 6 attacks from the fodder enemies. I also side by side showed that it took 20 attacks on "hard mode" on DmC. I told them to make it harder. This is a quote from Capcom japan "We did our internal review of the game and think from beginning to end that it is fair to the user and any additional difficulty would be unfair to the Japanese user." Capcom Japan is entirely why the game is easier. That is the bullshit of our NDAs. Right now I don't care to release the truth. I was the one who fought for the difficulty change that was later issued in the patch. Eshiro the producer in Japan denied it at first but conveniently okay-ed it 1 day before we were going to submit out patch. That resulted in the patch being obviously delayed before 1st day launch.

Edit: I also heavily emphasised that all aprehension against the new game was entirely because people thought that "westernization" meant making the game easier. I was trying to tell those assholes that they needed to make easy meduim and hard much more pronounced to give people significant satisfaction. They asked me where my research came from and I mentioned basically all the forums I have seen such as this, NeoGaf, Gamefaqs, IGN, any youtube posting of anything dmc. So there's your answer.

Which difficulty setting of DMC1 where you talking about?

Also what is NDA?

 

[Meier]

NDA- non disclosure agreement. Its a statement any employee agrees to to not disclose information that might harm the company as a whole or expose secrets of development. DmC is done so I'm not violating that agreement. I am sharing more intimate business relations, but those have been severed.

I was just talking about normal difficulty in DMC1. I had exact numbers in my report but am just giving a rough estimate to you now. Point is is I was trying to get them to expand damage on all enemies. There is virtually no difference in Stygian damage in DmC from easy to hard. There is significant damage difference in the bigger enemies though. The damage was a global thing not tied to enemy but rather to difficulty mode. My suggestion for damage variance was dismissed because it would have required a larger overhaul of the damage output per enemy. The patch they released was a compromise to that in which they tried to give more threat to the hard difficulty while maintaining their current design. A patch legally can only be within X amount of space, so they really had no choice at that time. The bigger fish to fry at that time was getting ps3 framerate up at all times.

 

[Stylish Nero]

NDA- non disclosure agreement. Its a statement any employee agrees to to not disclose information that might harm the company as a whole or expose secrets of development. DmC is done so I'm not violating that agreement. I am sharing more intimate business relations, but those have been severed.

I was just talking about normal difficulty in DMC1. I had exact numbers in my report but am just giving a rough estimate to you now. Point is is I was trying to get them to expand damage on all enemies. There is virtually no difference in Stygian damage in DmC from easy to hard. There is significant damage difference in the bigger enemies though. The damage was a global thing not tied to enemy but rather to difficulty mode. My suggestion for damage variance was dismissed because it would have required a larger overhaul of the damage output per enemy. The patch they released was a compromise to that in which they tried to give more threat to the hard difficulty while maintaining their current design. A patch legally can only be within X amount of space, so they really had no choice at that time. The bigger fish to fry at that time was getting ps3 framerate up at all times.

Ok interesting story.

Well found work anywhere else?

 

[Meier]

Ok interesting story.

Well found work anywhere else?

Yeah something for now. Reviewing old programming books from college to advance further. At capcom I was poised to circumvent development and go straight to producer, the layoff set me back a bit. I live in a tech hub though so there is always something.

Edit: Interesting though how little you show interest in how little or awful people were compensated at the company. That's capitalism for you. A who gives a **** about others attitude. Good thing fiction like DmC exists in this world to question it.

 

[InfernalOverkill]

That's still cannon I think. Basically the orphanage in which he grew up in was run by demons and they subjected him to tortuous propaganda. He escaped and then led his life as a vagrant ever since.

It just seems like they left a big part of the original plot out when you compare the early Donte; an emo-Tameem le420soangstyxXx clone, clearly a bit nuts, spazing out mid-battle, etc. to the finished product, where they've obviously DMCified him a bit in an attempt to please the fans of the original series.

Whilst I'm nitpicking - why the hell does anyone care that he's the "son of Sparda"? Sparda isn't portrayed as a legendary figure in DmC. Sparda is just a random demon who had a kid with an angel; not something that out of the ordinary in DmC until Mundus decided to outlaw it.

 

[Demi-fiend]

Yeah something for now. Reviewing old programming books from college to advance further. At capcom I was poised to circumvent development and go straight to producer, the layoff set me back a bit. I live in a tech hub though so there is always something.

Edit: Interesting though how little you show interest in how little or awful people were compensated at the company. That's capitalism for you. A who gives a **** about others attitude. Good thing fiction like DmC exists in this world to question it.

Glad to see that you found work. Especially in this economy.

Speaking of life being unfair, I'm glad DmC exists to "question" it, as you put it.

And it's not capitalism. It's corporatism (otherwise known as "corporate fascism") using Keynesian economic models.

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http://www.lewrockwell.com/lrc-blog...sian-economics-is-about-empowering-the-state/

"…the hatred for Keynesian economics has less, I think, to do with the notion that unemployment isn’t a proper subject of policy than about the notion of shifting power over the economy’s destiny away from big business and toward elected officials. (emphasis mine)"

"In other words, an economy really should be the plaything of the Political Classes, as though they had the brilliance and expertise to make things any better. Furthermore, whenever libertarians speak of things like market processes, people like Krugman throw in the term “big business,” which supposedly means that the two are the same."

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It's the reason why DmC made banks (Mundus/Silver & Sacks) the bad guys. It's all part of the corporatist model.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

If you still have any time left, at least give this one a look...

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It also explains why DmC didn't really take with the general audience. It shows that we've already let the bad guys take over, and no one wants to admit that they were born into debt. They all think that this is temporary and that the economy will "get better".

It won't. Not for very long time.

http://www.moneynews.com/Economy/GDP-growth-economy-structural/2013/11/15/id/536802

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True Capitalism isn't the problem (small businesses and real free markets), corporatism is (Keynesian economics).

This fight is far from over. When next economic crash comes, it's going to get really ugly.

 

[Dantenevercries]

DmC isn't as deep as DMC 3/4 or Bayonetta imo

 

[Demi-fiend]

Oh God, not this again...