Ninja Theory on DMC reboot: "we're not pretending we're Japanese, or apologising for it"

[Ana]

One question, are you me?

This is EXACTLY what I got from his words. It's beyond the extent of ridiculousness(if that's a word) if they feel the need to explain everything! I mean, c'mon...somethings are good the way they are.

Exactly! Why does he wear a red coat? That's not that weird. It's not asking, "Why does he wear neon tights and his underwear on the outside?" Not everything needs deep meaning.

What's next? Dante likes pizza because it's actually magic pizza that restores his MP? Or does the pizza place support the rebellion?

 

[Pale Rider]

Exactly! Why does he wear a red coat? That's not that weird. It's not asking, "Why does he wear neon tights and his underwear on the outside?" Not everything needs deep meaning.

What's next? Dante likes pizza because it's actually magic pizza that restores his MP? Or does the pizza place support the rebellion?

Lol.. If there's any chance of "Superman Returns: The Game" being made in near future, NT would be the top contender for it as they can really explain "everything"

 

[Ana]

Lol.. If there's any chance of "Superman Returns: The Game" being made in near future, NT would be the top contender for it as they can really explain "everything"

That underwear Those exercise briefs let him breathe in space! The S-shield deflects bullets because it's an arcade symbol of Kryptonian power!

 

[ReRave]

I think I get what you mean. He says "imagine what a character would look like if they were in a movie," but what if I don't want a game that looks like a movie?
No one cares what you want, as long as Capcom has the reigns in it's hands. NT was told to approach it tht way and that they did. I happen to have the same hairstyle as Dante for the better part of two years now and I consider myself a very normal person. I wouldn't run around in a black leather coat (creepy much...), but the rest of his clothes look also very average. That's just what people look like and that is what Capcom wants to have. This decision is completely out of anyone's hands.


Another problem is that he sounds like he thinks his way of doing things is somehow inherently better.
That is crazy. Read again, without your hate-goggles.

We already had an explanation for why Dante's hair is white - his father, Sparda, had white hair. It's hereditary.
He could have been blonde like Trish. That's not the matter, we don't know Dante's background for certain, so your explanation doesn't fit in this game. Western demons don't usually have white hair and that seems the more important fact here: If they are focusing on doing it the western way, then why not pull through wholeheartedly?

When you get down to making a big deal out of why Dante wears a red coat, it's a little ridiculous to act like an explanation is even necessary. Maybe Dante just likes red. He's got a show off personality. Why not?
Functionality doesn't mean that they will have to explain why he wears a coat. Though a black coat with red lining is way less weird than a vibrant red one. Antoniades just gives weird examples, when he tries to get a point across, I think.

Anyways, there is one quote, I'd like to emphasize more: We grew up on US and European movies, comics, music and general culture. That's what we're tapping into.
I think it's important for NT to stay true to what they actually can do. I wouldn't trust them to do a japanesey game à la Bayonetta, simply because they don't seem to have experience with that. Now to think of it, I don't know any european developer, that developed an anime-style game. Capcom wanted this to happen and there's nothign more to add.

 

[Ana]

I don't feel like replying to most of that, except...

Anyways, there is one quote, I'd like to emphasize more: We grew up on US and European movies, comics, music and general culture. That's what we're tapping into.
I think it's important for NT to stay true to what they actually can do. I wouldn't trust them to do a japanesey game à la Bayonetta, simply because they don't seem to have experience with that. Now to think of it, I don't know any european developer, that developed an anime-style game. Capcom wanted this to happen and there's nothign more to add.

Don't both of Ninja Theory's games have a very Asian flavor to them? That seems like an odd choice if they're into very Western media.

(Not to mention that I don't think Western comics are any less flashy than anime.)

 

[Sieghart]

"NINJA theory"
I wonder where ninja come from......

 

[Angel]

I don't feel like replying to most of that, except...



Don't both of Ninja Theory's games have a very Asian flavor to them? That seems like an odd choice if they're into very Western media.

(Not to mention that I don't think Western comics are any less flashy than anime.)

Unless Capcom requested a more "westernised" style?

 

[Sieghart]

Sigh.....
Why don't they just keep the balance of eastern and western?
There is 50% eastern and 50% western.
However this game in my point of view is 70% western and 30% eastern.

 

[ReRave]

I don't feel like replying to most of that, except...
Ähm, yeah, that's ok, no one forces you to. But why?



Don't both of Ninja Theory's games have a very Asian flavor to them?
They derived most of their mythological background from Asia, yes, but the feel of the game was whole different thing, right? Don't know if you played them, but neither HS nor JttW felt comparable to Bayonetta, DMC and whatnot. I am not sure, why they would want to make games with Eastern influences, but personal preferences might have been a factor at that time?

That seems like an odd choice if they're into very Western media.
True. Edit: Sorry, but Angel kinda corrected me on that. So, yeah, not that odd at all.


(Not to mention that I don't think Western comics are any less flashy than anime.)
Can't really say, I stopped reading shonen-Manga a long time ago. There are only two series I follow up til now, but neither of them is flashy (Berserk and Vagabond). From what I've heard, Naruto is one single huge magic fireball. Sure Supes is flashy, but not in a overly exagerated way. Combat, for example, looks very different in comparison: Western heroes just hit each other with blunt, sharp or edgy objects or their fists until one of them gives in/dies/ falls unconcious. In Anime and Manga you tend to have awefully huge swords, superpowers that blow up planets regularly ( I am taking random examples that I remember from my childhood) and overly long descriptions of what exactly is happening at the moment. Which brings me to the third manga I am reading: Hunter X Hunter.

"NINJA theory"
I wonder where ninja come from......

Piranha Bytes is a german developer, yet there are no Piranhas in Germany. I know that for a fact, because I am german.
What was your point, again?

 

[Sieghart]

Ewww naruto....
Sorry can't help my self lol
As long as this game is good and awesome then ninja theory will earn my respect unless if tam tam do some arrogant things again.
Makes me wonder what is the specific release date of the reboot.I hope they don't announced it to be released in september,october or december.

 

[Pale Rider]

Unless Capcom requested a more "westernised" style?

Capcom is their saviour saving them from claws of the eagles and flames of the dragons. Capcom wanted this.

But don't you a think it's a bit hypocritical of NT to claim that they grew up on western media but still their games have an Asian influene? Just asking....

 

[ReRave]

But don't you a think it's a bit hypocritical of NT to claim that they grew up on western media but still their games have an Asian influene? Just asking....

I lived my whole life in Germany, yet I played Final Fantasy IX and greatly enjoyed it. I read Manga and once drew one short strip myself. I am the storyteller in my Pen&Paper-group and I constantly make up characters, that are related to Asian mythology.
Am I a hypocrite?

 

[Ana]

I don't feel like replying to most of that, except...
Ähm, yeah, that's ok, no one forces you to. But why?

Don't both of Ninja Theory's games have a very Asian flavor to them?
They derived most of their mythological background from Asia, yes, but the feel of the game was whole different thing, right? Don't know if you played them, but neither HS nor JttW felt comparable to Bayonetta, DMC and whatnot. I am not sure, why they would want to make games with Eastern influences, but personal preferences might have been a factor at that time?

(Not to mention that I don't think Western comics are any less flashy than anime.)
Can't really say, I stopped reading shonen-Manga a long time ago. There are only two series I follow up til now, but neither of them is flashy (Berserk and Vagabond). From what I've heard, Naruto is one single huge magic fireball. Sure Supes is flashy, but not in a overly exagerated way. Combat, for example, looks very different in comparison: Western heroes just hit each other with blunt, sharp or edgy objects or their fists until one of them gives in/dies/ falls unconcious. In Anime and Manga you tend to have awefully huge swords, superpowers that blow up planets regularly ( I am taking random examples that I remember from my childhood) and overly long descriptions of what exactly is happening at the moment. Which brings me to the third manga I am reading: Hunter X Hunter.

I just can't think of anything to really say to those points, and when I try, I just see it all continuing into an increasingly petty and nickpicky back and forth... It just saps my motivation to deal with it.

I actually haven't played Ninja Theory's games, so I can't say what their style is like. I can tell it's not one I would prefer, though.

I think "flashy" might be the wrong term here. American comics are very flashy and exaggerated, though in a different way. I mean, we're talking about multi-universe continuity altering insane events. I mean, Superboy punched the multiverse into pieces. I honestly always found tradition western comics to be a bizarre combination of dull talk-y panels that put me to sleep and psychedelic "action" panels that made no sense. I just don't think you can say that American comics are somehow less crazy than manga, overall.

Manga itself has a wide variety, of course. There's shounen, but there's also the older-audience seinen, which is probably what DMC would aim at. I guess you could look at something like Baccano (1930s-ish American setting, alchemists and character intrigue), Darker than Black (modern fantasy/sci-fi), Fate/zero, Fist of the Blue Sky, Hellsing, etc. Remember that shounen is targeted at 8-12 boys, maybe teens at the oldest. Large difference in demographics there.

I lived my whole life in Germany, yet I played Final Fantasy IX and greatly enjoyed it. I read Manga and once drew one short strip myself. I am the storyteller in my Pen&Paper-group and I constantly make up characters, that are related to Asian mythology.
Am I a hypocrite?

That would depend on whether you claim to have a very "German" aesthetic despite being influenced by some Japanese media, right?

 

[Sieghart]

Me as a really big anime fan don't like majority of shonen animes but there are exceptions.I'm just saying.But considering a competition between story and art between anime,manga and american comics,anime and manga wins hands down and this is from my personal experience as i both liked the 2 and have read many many american comics when i was a kid but i grew to like anime and manga more.But i guess everyone has their own taste.

 

[ReRave]

I just can't think of anything to really say to those points, and when I try, I just see it all continuing into an increasingly petty and nickpicky back and forth... It just saps my motivation to deal with it.
Do I come across as a nitpicky or petty person?

I actually haven't played Ninja Theory's games, so I can't say what their style is like. I can tell it's not one I would prefer, though.
You can't argue taste.

I think "flashy" might be the wrong term here. American comics are very flashy and exaggerated, though in a different way. I mean, we're talking about multi-universe continuity altering insane events. I mean, Superboy punched the multiverse into pieces. I honestly always found tradition western comics to be a bizarre combination of dull talk-y panels that put me to sleep and psychedelic "action" panels that made no sense. I just don't think you can say that American comics are somehow less crazy than manga, overall.
Everytime anyone starts to discuss something like this topic, it ends up in a huge pile of comparisons and naysaying flagellations. Let's just state that there are Manga that are batshit retarded, but there's also a ton of Western comics that don't make sense.

Manga itself has a wide variety, of course.
Comics do, too.
There's shounen, but there's also the older-audience seinen, which is probably what DMC would aim at.
There's Mickey Mouse and there is rebooted Batman.
I guess you could look at something like Baccano (1930s-ish American setting, alchemists and character intrigue), Darker than Black (modern fantasy/sci-fi), Fate/zero, Fist of the Blue Sky, Hellsing, etc.
Incredible, you just posted 3 series that I hate so much, that I literally wanna puke anytime someone says they are any good. No offense, of course.

Remember that shounen is targeted at 8-12 boys, maybe teens at the oldest. Large difference in demographics there.
Superman is not exactly entertainment for grown-ups, so my example was pretty dull, but surely you get my drift.



That would depend on whether you claim to have a very "German" aesthetic despite being influenced by some Japanese media, right?
I can't see the connection to NT right now. Elaborate, please.

 

[Sieghart]

Bahahaha i agree with the batshit retarded because i have read too many manga like that xD

 

[Ana]

I just can't think of anything to really say to those points, and when I try, I just see it all continuing into an increasingly petty and nickpicky back and forth... It just saps my motivation to deal with it.
Do I come across as a nitpicky or petty person?

Not you, me. I tend to nitpick a point into the ground and I'm not very accepting of defeat. So it's better to just leave off before I get all worked up and start nagging about it.

I think "flashy" might be the wrong term here. American comics are very flashy and exaggerated, though in a different way. I mean, we're talking about multi-universe continuity altering insane events. I mean, Superboy punched the multiverse into pieces. I honestly always found tradition western comics to be a bizarre combination of dull talk-y panels that put me to sleep and psychedelic "action" panels that made no sense. I just don't think you can say that American comics are somehow less crazy than manga, overall.
Everytime anyone starts to discuss something like this topic, it ends up in a huge pile of comparisons and naysaying flagellations. Let's just state that there are Manga that are batshit retarded, but there's also a ton of Western comics that don't make sense.

This... is entirely correct.

I guess you could look at something like Baccano (1930s-ish American setting, alchemists and character intrigue), Darker than Black (modern fantasy/sci-fi), Fate/zero, Fist of the Blue Sky, Hellsing, etc.
Incredible, you just posted 3 series that I hate so much, that I literally wanna puke anytime someone says they are any good. No offense, of course.

I... watched exactly one of those series. I just heard good things about them. I like shounen, to be honest. I like the lameness and "Friendship!" of it.

Remember that shounen is targeted at 8-12 boys, maybe teens at the oldest. Large difference in demographics there.
Superman is not exactly entertainment for grown-ups, so my example was pretty dull, but surely you get my drift.

Yeah, but I'm pretty sure NT isn't aiming for something like Toy Story when they talk about modern movies. ...Wait, no, what are we talking about? I lost the thread of conversation completely!

That would depend on whether you claim to have a very "German" aesthetic despite being influenced by some Japanese media, right?
I can't see the connection to NT right now. Elaborate, please.

Okay, let me see here.
NT claims they grew up on Western movies, comics, culture, etc. They say that's what they are aiming for, as opposed to the overly "Japanese" flavor of original DMC. However, their previous games have had a very Asian aspect to their worldbuilding (at the very least). So we are questioning their credentials as true followers of Western culture! (??? Wait, what?) Also, we are possibly calling them hypocrits for being all, "We Westerners! We make Western-taste game!" when their previous games were kinda Asian-like. Maybe.

Your analogy was that you are a German, but you still liked FFIX and certain manga and even used Asian influences in your character-building. But that only makes you a hypocrite if you purposefully emphasize your credentials as a German artist despite having clear non-German influences.

(...I think I need to retake critical thinking and logic. Waaaahhh)

 

[Angel]

Capcom is their saviour saving them from claws of the eagles and flames of the dragons. Capcom wanted this.

But don't you a think it's a bit hypocritical of NT to claim that they grew up on western media but still their games have an Asian influene? Just asking....

I'm unsure of what you mean by using the word hypocrite in this context? You can be inspired by another culture/influence regardless of which one you grew up with. I don't think it makes you a "hypocrite" to use either style - Western or Eastern - with whatever you're creating. If their directive was "use more of a Westernised feel" then that's what they did; just because previous games in their repertoire were more of a Japanese feel doesn't make them hypocrites. It would if they said, "we don't do Japanese styles. That's not our thing. We're not influenced by the culture and we'd never consider even inferring the style into any of our products". Granted, I've not read every interview or seen every video of NT, but so far I've not seen/heard anything like that statement coming from them.

With what they have said in the interview VB posted, they are referring to their "growing up with western media" for the purposes of why this particular title is how it is - nothing more or less than that, from what I can see. I'm not entirely sure why their other games need come into it at all seeing as they are not what are mentioned within the interview in relation to DmC.

 

[ReRave]

Not you, me. I tend to nitpick a point into the ground and I'm not very accepting of defeat. So it's better to just leave off before I get all worked up and start nagging about it.
Ok, then I'll leave you alone. For now. ;D


I... watched exactly one of those series. I just heard good things about them. I like shounen, to be honest. I like the lameness and "Friendship!" of it.
To quote "the Dude": That's just, like, your opinion, man". And I really dislike Darker than Black. i really do, from the bottom of my heart.


Yeah, but I'm pretty sure NT isn't aiming for something like Toy Story when they talk about modern movies. ...Wait, no, what are we talking about? I lost the thread of conversation completely!
Thank god, I don't remember either. Well, but yes, I think DmC will be more of middlething inbetween teenage and grown-up stuff. At least that's what I am hoping for.


Okay, let me see here.
NT claims they grew up on Western movies, comics, culture, etc. They say that's what they are aiming for, as opposed to the overly "Japanese" flavor of original DMC. However, their previous games have had a very Asian aspect to their worldbuilding (at the very least). So we are questioning their credentials as true followers of Western culture! (??? Wait, what?) Also, we are possibly calling them hypocrits for being all, "We Westerners! We make Western-taste game!" when their previous games were kinda Asian-like. Maybe.
Sure, but why? It's not like they are saying: We are NT, we're famous for all our western games. They said that they will create something, that they themselves can relate to, due to their own upbringing. I don't really see, where that collides with their previous games, that were inspired by Asia, but never were dominated by Asian ideas. Enslaved looks nothing like Bayonetta (I constantly have to use Bayo as an example. Sucks to be me.) and neither does HS. They were Western games, with Asian themes, while DmC will be a Western games with Western themes.

Your analogy was that you are a German, but you still liked FFIX and certain manga and even used Asian influences in your character-building. But that only makes you a hypocrite if you purposefully emphasize your credentials as a German artist despite having clear non-German influences.
I just can't see, why that is hypocritical. I can't. It's mentally impossible for me, to see your point.

(...I think I need to retake critical thinking and logic. Waaaahhh)
Maybe that's just todays weather. I'm feeling really dumb today, too.

Granted, I've not read every interview or seen every video of NT, but so far I've not seen/heard anything like that statement coming from them. You're pretty much on spot, don't worry.

With what they have said in the interview VB posted, they are referring to their "growing up with western media" for the purposes of why this particular title is how it is - nothing more or less than that, from what I can see. I'm not entirely sure why their other games need come into it at all seeing as they are not what are mentioned within the interview in relation to DmC.
Amen

 

[Ana]

NT claims they grew up on Western movies, comics, culture, etc. They say that's what they are aiming for, as opposed to the overly "Japanese" flavor of original DMC. However, their previous games have had a very Asian aspect to their worldbuilding (at the very least). So we are questioning their credentials as true followers of Western culture! (??? Wait, what?) Also, we are possibly calling them hypocrits for being all, "We Westerners! We make Western-taste game!" when their previous games were kinda Asian-like. Maybe.
Sure, but why? It's not like they are saying: We are NT, we're famous for all our western games. They said that they will create something, that they themselves can relate to, due to their own upbringing. I don't really see, where that collides with their previous games, that were inspired by Asia, but never were dominated by Asian ideas. Enslaved looks nothing like Bayonetta (I constantly have to use Bayo as an example. Sucks to be me.) and neither does HS. They were Western games, with Asian themes, while DmC will be a Western games with Western themes.

Your analogy was that you are a German, but you still liked FFIX and certain manga and even used Asian influences in your character-building. But that only makes you a hypocrite if you purposefully emphasize your credentials as a German artist despite having clear non-German influences.
I just can't see, why that is hypocritical. I can't. It's mentally impossible for me, to see your point.

The issue is that they emphasize their Western-ness, how totally western they are, when they themselves have been influenced by the east. ...That looks about right. I guess it just rubs certain fans the wrong way...?

Well, whatever. Honestly, I wish they'd stop talking about the old Dante already. I liked him in some ways, didn't like him in some others. But this passive-aggresive way NT is constantly bringing him is just... I've had enough of it. More than enough.

Stop talking about how the new Dante makes more sense and start showing him! I wanna know about him! Where he learned to fight, where he got his guns, who his parents are, whether he has a brother, what he's like. Stop talking about old Dante, start talking about new! He looks quite hot, short black hair and dark coat and all, there's no need to feel so insecure, NT! Gimme more! MOAR!