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New Vergil or Devil May Cry 3 Vergil?

Kam

Wall of text crits you for 600
"Goodbye."

-Sheaths Yamato.-
That's actually one thing I hated about the old vergil.
slash slash!
gasp, enemy is stunned!
slowly sheathe sword
-click-
cuts appear, enemy falls apart

This exact timing happens like 6 times in DMC3 (all vergil), is super common in basically any kind of media produced by katanerds, and even dante does it in DMC4. I'm sick to ****ing death of seeing the slow sheathe/delayed cut trope, please stop.
 

Blue_Rose

One way to get yourself shot
That's actually one thing I hated about the old vergil.
slash slash!
gasp, enemy is stunned!
slowly sheathe sword
-click-
cuts appear, enemy falls apart

This exact timing happens like 6 times in DMC3 (all vergil), is super common in basically any kind of media produced by katanerds, and even dante does it in DMC4. I'm sick to ****ing death of seeing the slow sheathe/delayed cut trope, please stop.
Well to be technical about it, it's believed Yamato's damage isn't apparent until sheathed.
 

Blue_Rose

One way to get yourself shot
You know how I know you're joking? Because Vergil was obviously showing off -- even though there wasn't an audience. He has that in common with his fratboy twin.
But I wasn't joking. :cool:

And yes! That is the most true statement I have ever heard about the Sons of Sparda! From Dante to his electric guitar to Vergil punching Beowulf's corpse around.
 

The Final Offer

Well-known Member
That's actually one thing I hated about the old vergil.
slash slash!
gasp, enemy is stunned!
slowly sheathe sword
-click-
cuts appear, enemy falls apart

This exact timing happens like 6 times in DMC3 (all vergil), is super common in basically any kind of media produced by katanerds, and even dante does it in DMC4. I'm sick to ****ing death of seeing the slow sheathe/delayed cut trope, please stop.

So what? When the game came out that was all the rave. I still like it. I think it makes a point that weapons like that should be wielded by those worthy enough to pull off the sheath.

Did you even play Shinobi for PS bro?
 

TWOxACROSS

Hot-blooded God of Guns
Premium
Not explaining something to you does not make it a plot hole, no matter how badly you want an explanation to be there. If I rewrite eva's story a bit, I can give you a more concrete example of what a plothole is supposed to look like

Plot hole:
Eva is a totally ordinary human. 2000 years ago she was personally there to help sparda fight the demons. 30 years ago she gave birth to sparda's sons. All three of these statements cannot be true at the same time; eva cannot be an ordinary human, while simultaneously being over 2000 years old, and no explanation can resolve this paradox. This would make it a plot hole.

Not a plot hole:
I don't know how Nero was born, or why dante changed his sign the second time.

It's not "not explaining it" it's that there's no explanation based on the established facts in the games that can resolve the contradiction - when would the human-hating Vergil have ever shacked up with someone in order to sire Nero? Everything shows him not caring about his human side or progeny, only getting Sparda's power. Why would Dante have changed his sign back after the phrase had such an impact on him? Or the contradiction that in DMC1 we're told Vergil died along with Eva, and yet DMC3 plays out as if he's been alive and well for some time, apparently making babies for some reason. You're conveniently not answering these.

People question why and how Vergil is Nero's father because it doesn't make any goddamn sense given Vergil's character, and the fact that given pretty much all logical timelines, he would have had to impregnate a woman when he was in his early teens (if I remember correctly), or given DMC1, he's supposed to be dead.

When old vergil made a bid for sparda's power, he invited every demon, hunter, and even his brother to come try to stop him, his plan being to kill everyone who challenged him and then take the power as his prize. Sure, it's not the best plan and it would be way easier to do something sneaky, but in his eyes anything less of proving his absolute strength wouldn't have been the right way to claim the power of his father.

That is 100% pure headcanon you just said. That is not at all what the game nor any canonical material tells us. He didn't invite anyone to do anything, let alone to challenge him. He raised Temen-ni-gru for his own purposes, which inadvertently unleashed demons on the city. He begrudgingly accepted Arkham's help until he no longer needed it - whereupon he killed the guy. He "invited" Dante only because he needed his amulet, and ironically his invitation forced Dante to either get to the top of the tower where Vergil would trounce him and take the amulet (like he did), or die during his ascent, allowing for both easy pick up of the amulet and a minimal amount of effort on Vergil's part.

The fact that new vergil left these courses of action as his only available options is downright laughable. His only option was to hide in the shadows his whole life, make his brother do all the dirty work, use humans to gather intel, and then **** off his enemy with an underhanded trick so his brother would have an easier time? Those were his only options because he is weak.

Those were not his only options "because he was weak". They weren't even his only options, he just preferred to play things close to his chest, hiding his identity, his power, and his race to help his plan along, and avoid drawing undue attention his way. Subtlety and subterfuge can go a long way in helping a plan to fruition, sometimes in ways brute force won't do. You can't claim he's weak because his way of doing things lacked him showing off, especially when Vergil's Downfall clearly shows he's more than capable of dispatching demons just as Dante is - when seemingly wounded, even.

Don't confuse inaction with inability.

Oh, ok. From what I've seen I unerstood it differently, but maybe I mosunderstood it as child being part of giant plan, which will make question why he even need this plan. From it I can also finally understand why he still banged Lilith in the first place.

It certainly wasn't for her good looks :vomit: Well, maybe it was, people have weird attractions sometimes.

Mundus didn't really have a plan anymore, since he's been living it for the past several millenia, reaping the rewards.

IT's nowhere on par with it. Seriously anybody with basic understanding of writing can see it. In case of Echidna it was giant tree-snake producing offsprings endlessly every 10 seconds. She didn't tries to protect them. She only gets ****ed at Dante/Nero. In case of Lilith it's much more grounded version of pregnant woman and it was her only child. Who Vergil killed why Lilith was completely helpless and done it from behind. Which is far. far worse than DMC4.
The old woman literally cried, why Vergil laughed at it....Did you forgot it? Sadism can be psychological too, it doesn't necessary have to be physical

It's demon killers killing demons. Both had just used their offspring in an attempt to kill them before, and despite Echidna wailing about her dead children whom she launched endlessly like ammunition, Lilith was wailing about losing her favor with Mundus, not at the loss of "her child", but at the loss of her ticket to the easy life. Echidna, in spite of how liberally she tossed around her seedlings, was given the capacity to care about them as her young, and her wailing over this is muted with a bullet. Lilith, who previously showed next to no regard for Killing Face by forcing it to fight, berating it when it failed, and even stated that she didn't care about the child beyond anything more than as a way to stay in Mundus' favor, has her wailing over the loss of that favor muted with a bullet.

Yeah sure, she was shot while defenseless, but why is this even an issue? Because it's "not cool"? It's not supposed to be, but it still served a purpose. It was a conniving b!tch getting what was coming to her, delivered by a guy who was just as, if not more, conniving as her. Just desserts, really.
 

Kam

Wall of text crits you for 600
there's no explanation snip
None of vergil's life prior to DMC3 is really documented anywhere, so that's a good solid decade where he could have hooked up with a human lady and made the lovable quarter demon nero. Nero's age compared to how much lady ages between 3 and 4 also supports him being a conception that took place well before the events of DMC3. While vergil is completely power consumed by DMC3, his attitude is never really documented prior to the game, so there's plenty of room for some huge life altering event to switch him from "guy who will make babies with human women" into the power consumed one dimensional dick he is in DMC3.

There's lots of theories and explanations for exactly what might have happened, but since all of them can explain all of your questions without violating established canon, it's not considered a plothole; it's just something the writers never told you.

vergil's power quest snip
yes, it is just head canon. This is the kind of thing I imagine a character I really like would do, and old vergil conforms very nicely to my little delusion. New vergil goes completely against everything a character I like would do, so it's hard for me to even invent a head canon in which new vergil does things I approve of. That's why I like the old vergil and not the new one. Maybe I read too much into a character's potential, who knows I'm kinda drunk right now.

those weren't his only options snip
I dislike him for taking the course of action he did, whether it was his only option or just the one he preferred. The old vergil would have preferred something a little more direct, and that's the kind of character I prefer over a sneaky plotting type.

I'm sorry I've been such a badmouthing dick, sometimes I go overboard when I get too involved in explaining why I don't like a character. New vergil is just different, and he might legitimately appeal more to people with different tastes, and that's totally cool. But for me personally, my tastes run in the old direction, and all the things new vergil is apparently loved for here are things that I can't actually stand.

This isn't to say one of our opinions is wrong, it's just that they're different.
 

Demi-fiend

Metempsychosis
Supporter 2014
I'll take clever tactics over announcing your plan for world domination like a wannabe James Bond villain any day of the week.

I'll call old Vergil "Goldmember" from now on, due to the huge tower he erected (get it?).

The fact that the o-katana he's always gripping in his hand is wrapped with a gold ribbon doesn't help matters, either.
 

Innsmouth

Sleeping DMC Fan
Supporter 2014
It certainly wasn't for her good looks :vomit: Well, maybe it was, people have weird attractions sometimes.

Mundus didn't really have a plan anymore, since he's been living it for the past several millenia, reaping the rewards.

I think he banged her because he needed to keep her on the leash till child is born, if he really cared about this child.
Yeah sure, she was shot while defenseless, but why is this even an issue? Because it's "not cool"? It's not supposed to be, but it still served a purpose. It was a conniving b!tch getting what was coming to her, delivered by a guy who was just as, if not more, conniving as her. Just desserts, really.
Actually it's exactly the reason. Writing in DmC despite being much more developed than in parts before it, isn't on the level with likes of Rockstar, and adding few cool moments would have been nice. But adding even more controversy moments than it was, while making characters act as Vergil did in this moment only made characters (in that case Vergil) only more unsympathetic.
 

Chancey289

Fake Geek Girl.
Yeah, the villain isn't supposed to be likable. That would defeat the purpose of being a really abhorrent, revolting, and detestable villain.

It's like when people accused the Far Cry 4 villain of racism/class-ism --

number 1. he wasn't white.

number 2. he's a villain, so of course he's going to treat those less fortunate than he is badly.

number 3. he's also supposed to be hated. Once again, that's the point of being a villain.

Generic boring villains who are liked are so tiresome these days. It's refreshing to have villains that are being created to specifically make you hate them. It really is.
I love a good villain. If you watch Hell on Wheels for example you have The Swede which is a totally evil son of a b!tch and you'd kill him in a heartbeat if given the chance but, I love him because he's so evil. He's the villain you love to hate. And he's not just on the scene with the audience just being told he's bad. He does bad and gets worse. You see the hate he has for Bohannon and why he does what he does. He's also smart. A venomous snake in the grass. I can't wait for Cullen to put a bullet in his head but also, I don't because he needs to stick around lol.
 

The Final Offer

Well-known Member
I love a good villain. If you watch Hell on Wheels for example you have The Swede which is a totally evil son of a b!tch and you'd kill him in a heartbeat if given the chance but, I love him because he's so evil. He's the villain you love to hate. And he's not just on the scene with the audience just being told he's bad. He does bad and gets worse. You see the hate he has for Bohannon and why he does what he does. He's also smart. A venomous snake in the grass. I can't wait for Cullen to put a bullet in his head but also, I don't because he needs to stick around lol.
Hell on WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEELLLLLLLLLLLLLZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
 

Demi-fiend

Metempsychosis
Supporter 2014
Don't respond to him, Chancey; it wasn't that big of a provocation, it was almost two days ago, and he said bye, meaning he had given up. Just ignore him. Comments that aren't that big of a deal shouldn't even be paid attention to.
 

Blue_Rose

One way to get yourself shot
TXA, I have something to say about Vergil supposed to be dead in DMC1. First of all, Trish explains everything and it would have come off as suspicious if she claimed to know the events of Temi-ni-gru. And besides, you can't imprison an 8 year old in some giant demon armor. That's cruel even by Mundus' standards. Oh wait...
 

V's patron

be loyal to what matters
TXA, I have something to say about Vergil supposed to be dead in DMC1. First of all, Trish explains everything and it would have come off as suspicious if she claimed to know the events of Temi-ni-gru. And besides, you can't imprison an 8 year old in some giant demon armor. That's cruel even by Mundus' standards. Oh wait...
Tbh I dont think Dante would tell people that Vergil was behind Temen ni gru's rising so I'm guessing he just tells customers his brother died.
 

Blue_Rose

One way to get yourself shot
Tbh I dont think Dante would tell people that Vergil was behind Temen ni gru's rising so I'm guessing he just tells customers his brother died.
Of course. That's a total given. But if Trish started saying stuff only Dante and Lady knew then it would be suspicious.
 

TWOxACROSS

Hot-blooded God of Guns
Premium
Of course. That's a total given. But if Trish started saying stuff only Dante and Lady knew then it would be suspicious.

To be perfectly frank, Dante has never seemed the guy who would bother telling anyone family details unless they were somehow involved in some way; he's always very deflective when people ask him things about himself, making flippant offhand remarks to dodge serious discussion unless absolutely necessary - like with Nero. Even then though, he was still sort of elusive when talking to Nero, much to the audience's chargin too >.<

So, it was rather dubious that Trish knew anything about Dante to begin with.
 
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