Nero's origins - What do you think?

[Lord Nero]

I believe that Nero is like the great-great grandson of Sparda or something.

Sparda was thousands of years old. As if Eva was the only woman he's ever done the deed with.

And the reason why he's not as powerful as Dante, and can't transform his entire body into a demon is because he's not a SON of Sparda. Unlike Dante, who's half-demon, Nero is probably one-tenth demon or something.

As far as we know, Sparda did not have children with any other humans. His relationship with Eva was legendary, and their children equally so. That said, it's possible. It may be that in the time he reigned over the human world, he had illegitimate children. I wouldn't be surprised... those were different times, and he was an aristocrat, so... yeah. But if anyone found out, they'd all be in big trouble.

The biggest problem with this theory is that Nero is still pretty strong. So if he were like one tenth demonic, I really doubt he'd be able to defeat Sanctus. I doubt he'd be able to do much of anything, really.

 

[Blue_Rose]

Exactly... I ruled this out a long time ago. If he were Sparda reincarnated, he shouldn't literally have his blood. Besides, why would Sparda suddenly be reincarnated 2000 years later? Just to beat Sanctus? I'm pretty sure Dante could easily beat Sanctus if he could get inside the Savior statue.

But if he were the reincarnation of Sparda, he SHOULD have Sparda's blood because erm...he's Sparda's reincarnation. I like this one because the symbolism points so well to it. Unlike the Vergil son theory, which can be shot down faster than Nero can scream "KYRIE!!!"

 

[LordOfDarkness]

Nero was created by an accidental rip in DMC's time and space.

Or another theory could suggest he was manufactured by a teapot.

 

[ef9dante_oSsshea]

why are people coming up with so many theories, the official art book states he is vergils son.

That kind of makes it ironclad if capcom are saying it.

My theory is that nero was alive in DMC3 but he was young.

He could have been conceived in vergils days as gilver which would put vergi in his teens

 

[Lord Nero]

But if he were the reincarnation of Sparda, he SHOULD have Sparda's blood because erm...he's Sparda's reincarnation. I like this one because the symbolism points so well to it. Unlike the Vergil son theory, which can be shot down faster than Nero can scream "KYRIE!!!"

No, that's not how reincarnation works. In western terms, reincarnation (usually) means that the soul of a person/organism is transferred to an unborn baby after death. So yes, it's possible that Nero is a reincarnation of Sparda, but he would not have his blood.

 

[Lord Nero]

why are people coming up with so many theories, the official art book states he is vergils son.

That kind of makes it ironclad if capcom are saying it.

My theory is that nero was alive in DMC3 but he was young.

He could have been conceived in vergils days as gilver which would put vergi in his teens

That art book was written by one person, and I'm pretty sure Capcom did not give their consent to that person to write it. At the very least, they have not confirmed that it is canon. So far, only the DMC1 novel and the games are canon, as far as I know.

If Nero is indeed 19 in DMC4 just like Dante was in DMC3, then yeah, he was alive in DMC3. At that time he was being raised by Kyrie and Credo's family.

What is interesting to me, though, is that the novel says nobody gave birth at the time Nero was found, and that was supposed to indicate his mother was a prostitute. Of course, that's just an assumption. When you think about it, it's quite possible that Nero is an experiment. That's why nobody actually gave birth to him.
Though, again, I'm not sure you can consider the novel to be canon. So if the entire novel is not canon, then this statement that 'nobody gave birth at the time' might not be either.

 

[ef9dante_oSsshea]

Being an experiment would be such a boring backstory though.

Plus if he was then why would dante entrust yamato to him.

 

[Lord Nero]

Being an experiment would be such a boring backstory though.

Plus if he was then why would dante entrust yamato to him.

Why wouldn't he? If Nero is an experiment created from the combination of certain genes from Dante and Vergil, or just Sparda's genes alone, then he has Sparda's blood. And so, by giving the Yamato to Nero, it would ''stay in the family'' (sort of). Aside from that, remember that Vergil's soul is hovering behind Nero (his devil trigger)... so Dante actually gave the Yamato back to Vergil. It makes sense.

Anyway, to come back on what I said earlier, I guess it's possible for Nero to be Sparda's reincarnation (to have his soul) despite him already being related to Sparda. He does not have Sparda's body or blood - that's not what reincarnation means.

EDIT Also, about the DMC4 novel, it was written by Bingo after he left Capcom. It was never confirmed that Nero is Vergil's son - Sanctus only said that he thought Vergil might have knocked up a prostitute to carry on Sparda's legacy. One thought of Sanctus's can hardly be called proof. So the novel does not discount the possibility that Vergil (with the help of a scientist) created Nero as an experiment.

 

[TonyRedgraveDMC]

Honestly, the Vergil's son theory is the only one that isn't ridiculous. Most theories to refute it are desperate and based almost entirely on faulty assumptions about his character, and incomplete time tables on the matter. There is some merit to the direct similarities between Nero and Sparda, but nothing that reasonably answers his origins. Even the "Yamato serves as a remnant of Vergil's soul much like most other devil arms and this influenced Nero" theory is very false considering his arm changed long (and supposedly his white hair was never pointed out as being 'different') before any implied contact with Yamato occurred. The Vergil's son theory has been 'confirmed' twice now, so far it is the most valid as opposed to any others.

 

[Lord Nero]

Honestly, the Vergil's son theory is the only one that isn't ridiculous. Most theories to refute it are desperate and based almost entirely on faulty assumptions about his character, and incomplete time tables on the matter. There is some merit to the direct similarities between Nero and Sparda, but nothing that reasonably answers his origins. Even the "Yamato serves as a remnant of Vergil's soul much like most other devil arms and this influenced Nero" theory is very false considering his arm changed long (and supposedly his white hair was never pointed out as being 'different') before any implied contact with Yamato occurred. The Vergil's son theory has been 'confirmed' twice now, so far it is the most valid as opposed to any others.

And the 'Nero is Vergil's son' theory is based on one assumption Sanctus makes in the novel.
When we have the choice between assumptions that make little sense, and assumptions that make more sense, I'll always choose those that make more sense. I did not make assumptions about Vergil's character... but if you were referring to somebody else, fair enough.
If Dante is around 30 in DMC 4 (and Vergil would be too), then Nero is not Vergil's son. According to the DMC 4 novel, Dante ages at the same rate as normal humans. Since he is 19 in DMC3 (which has been accepted by all forums and DMC fans I can find on the internet), and DMC4 was stated to take place about 10 years later (seems correct when you look at Lady), Dante/Vergil would be about 30.
DMC 4 hints at the idea that Nero is more connected to Sparda than to Vergil, and nothing indicates he is Vergil's son. Even the novel does not confirm it - just like DMC4, it only confirms he is related to Sparda in some way.

If you only want to listen to evidence, then Nero must be a human. The story says he is, so why doubt it, right? Too bad that's a very ignorant stance to take, all things considered. You can figure out he's related to Sparda (or has his genes) just by logical inference. No humans beside those of the Sparda bloodline in DMC have white hair, as far as we know... and in Japanese culture, it's a sign of demonic possession. He just happens to wear red and blue, happens to have extraordinary power, happens to have the same kind of personality as Dante, and gets a demonic arm out of nowhere? You see my point, right? The same kind of thing is happening here.
You're assuming he's Vergil's son, but you're telling me my ideas are ridiculous? I know I have no proof for him being an experiment or distant relative of Sparda's, but you have no proof he's Vergil's son either. You're just telling people they're wrong for having theories different from yours.

Also:

*- What does his arm have to do with the Yamato, or even Vergil? His arm has not been connected to Vergil, so I don't see your point... or are you making assumptions? You know, the kind of assumption you criticized yourself. The game implies that Vergil's soul is released inside Nero once he takes the Yamato. Once he takes it, Nero literally says Vergil's 'power' line and gets a blue floating thing behind him. Blue is Vergil's signature color, and no other demon beside Vergil has had a sheath for the Yamato inside their arm. Nero needs the Yamato to go into DT. Without it, he has nothing. If his arm is connected to Vergil, he would not need the Yamato to go into Devil Trigger. He wouldn't even need it to break out of Agnus's lab.

- How has the 'Vergil's son theory' been confirmed twice? Nobody from the DMC development team confirmed it, and the novel didn't confirm it either. It only told us that Sanctus had a little thought... a thought that wasn't based on any evidence. If you have new information, I'd love to hear it. Otherwise... there is nothing that directly indicates he is Vergil's son. And that's why people have speculated for 32 pages now. Telling people they're idiots for speculating is not helpful. It's comparable to flaming, and flaming shouldn't be tolerated.

 

[TonyRedgraveDMC]

Well, I must point out, you're right, so it has been confirmed once: through the recently released artbook, and actually outright claimed by a character in a semi-official source; the same character whom we have come to assume is believable when he claimed Nero was blood-related to Sparda in the first place, and you cannot actually claim that he was a lying liar who lies because it was his very evil plan that relied on this detail. Unless everything he claimed about the Savior was arbitrary, which is hard to believe. The "about this many years" and "about that many years" are assumptions, though they're not as bothersome as people claiming it's "impossible" due to the very fair time periods matching up and Vergil still being a teenager, not an 18 year old. I'm not assuming, it is fact that Nero had his devil bringer prior to obtaining the Yamato, so theories regarding Nero obtaining similarities to Vergil through the Yamato (possibly due to Yamato channeling Vergil the same way devil arms like Cerberus and Nevan channeled there respective demon counterparts) could very well be correct, but does not explain his demonic abilities and attributes PRIOR to acquiring Yamato.

 

[Lord Nero]

Well, I must point out, you're right, so it has been confirmed once: through the recently released artbook, and actually outright claimed by a character in a semi-official source; the same character whom we have come to assume is believable when he claimed Nero was blood-related to Sparda in the first place, and you cannot actually claim that he was a lying liar who lies because it was his very evil plan that relied on this detail. Unless everything he claimed about the Savior was arbitrary, which is hard to believe. The "about this many years" and "about that many years" are assumptions, though they're not as bothersome as people claiming it's "impossible" due to the very fair time periods matching up and Vergil still being a teenager, not an 18 year old. I'm not assuming, it is fact that Nero had his devil bringer prior to obtaining the Yamato, so theories regarding Nero obtaining similarities to Vergil through the Yamato (possibly due to Yamato channeling Vergil the same way devil arms like Cerberus and Nevan channeled there respective demon counterparts) could very well be correct, but does not explain his demonic abilities and attributes PRIOR to acquiring Yamato.

What one character claims is really not very interesting. In the novel, Sanctus just assumed Vergil knocked up a prostitute and that's where Nero came from. Who is to say he was correct?

I don't see what your interest in the Devil Bringer is. It's not said to be related to Vergil in any way, so why are you acting like it's been confirmed his arm has something to do with him? If he is an experiment or even related to Sparda in the slightest, that's where his arm and power might've come from. I really don't see the significance of his arm here. Yes, it can absorb stuff, including the Yamato. Yes, he restored the Yamato. Does that mean he's Vergil's son? Nope.

But if it's been confirmed in this artbook, then I guess I'll accept it. But that said, artbooks do not contain canon material. Artists write ideas next to pictures all the time. The only thing that matters is the final product (DMC 4, canon novels etc), not what came before it.

 

[ef9dante_oSsshea]

Since when were novels canon?

and considering the artbook was made by a capcom employee i would take that as canon over all else

 

[TonyRedgraveDMC]

What one character claims is really not very interesting. In the novel, Sanctus just assumed Vergil knocked up a prostitute and that's where Nero came from. Who is to say he was correct?

I don't see what your interest in the Devil Bringer is. It's not said to be related to Vergil in any way, so why are you acting like it's been confirmed his arm has something to do with him? If he is an experiment or even related to Sparda in the slightest, that's where his arm and power might've come from. I really don't see the significance of his arm here. Yes, it can absorb stuff, including the Yamato. Yes, he restored the Yamato. Does that mean he's Vergil's son? Nope.

But if it's been confirmed in this artbook, then I guess I'll accept it. But that said, artbooks do not contain canon material. Artists write ideas next to pictures all the time. The only thing that matters is the final product (DMC 4, canon novels etc), not what came before it.

You're missing my intended point about the Devil Bringer. (and his hair) Some people like to argue AGAINST Nero being Vergil's son by summarizing that any and all similarities to Vergil are explained by Nero's acquisition of Yamato, my point is that does not explain Nero's devil bringer or hair.

 

[Picard]

That excemps him from having Sparda's BLOOD.

Sparda has his own blood by default... now, I do know that Sanctus said that Nero is a DESCENDANT of Sparda's blood, which would rule out him being Sparda's reincarnation, but then Sanctus isn't all-knowing either.

If you only want to listen to evidence, then Nero must be a human. The story says he is, so why doubt it, right? Too bad that's a very ignorant stance to take, all things considered. You can figure out he's related to Sparda (or has his genes) just by logical inference. No humans beside those of the Sparda bloodline in DMC have white hair, as far as we know... and in Japanese culture, it's a sign of demonic possession. He just happens to wear red and blue, happens to have extraordinary power, happens to have the same kind of personality as Dante, and gets a demonic arm out of nowhere? You see my point, right? The same kind of thing is happening here.

Precisely. And "wears red and blue" part is why I concluded it is indeed possible for him to be Sparda's reincarnation... Vergil wears blue, Dante wears red, Nero wears both.

(Though I guess it could be possible for Nero to be Sparda's son too, considering that Sparda disappeared and was not explicitly stated to have been killed... maybe guy just got bored).

 

[TonyRedgraveDMC]

Sparda has his own blood by default... now, I do know that Sanctus said that Nero is a DESCENDANT of Sparda's blood, which would rule out him being Sparda's reincarnation, but then Sanctus isn't all-knowing either.



Precisely. And "wears red and blue" part is why I concluded it is indeed possible for him to be Sparda's reincarnation... Vergil wears blue, Dante wears red, Nero wears both.

(Though I guess it could be possible for Nero to be Sparda's son too, considering that Sparda disappeared and was not explicitly stated to have been killed... maybe guy just got bored).

As I said earlier, Sanctus can't be mistrusted when his facts are vital to his evil plan. If it was indeed just postulation, Sanctus would have disregarded Nero and went after Dante and/or Nero would not have sufficed and Sanctus would have had complications with the Savior. When the villain (whose organization you work for) tells you his doomsday weapon runs on X and he needs you because secretly you are made of/generate X, it's not really in his best interest to lie, and when it turns out you successfully power up the doomsday weapon, it does not make a lot of sense to claim he was wrong. As for the reincarnation, I'm not saying he CAN'T be Sparda's reincarnation, but that's only possible if he's Sparda's reincarnation because of A and is Sparda's blood relative because of B. In my opinion, while wearing red and blue doesn't necessarily prove anything at all besides symbolically being tied to Dante/Vergil/Sparda.. so imo Nero is designed to have inherited more of Sparda's traits (symbolically, since you can't necessarily inherit personality traits) and perhaps some of Sparda's more dominant demon genes. Again, just imo Vergil copulating with a human as a teenager is more believable than Sparda having a child with someone after Eva, OR having an unspoken sibling for that matter.

 

[Lord Nero]

You're missing my intended point about the Devil Bringer. (and his hair) Some people like to argue AGAINST Nero being Vergil's son by summarizing that any and all similarities to Vergil are explained by Nero's acquisition of Yamato, my point is that does not explain Nero's devil bringer or hair.

But the Devil Bringer and his hair are not necessarily linked to Vergil. If he has white hair, that means he's related to Sparda, but not necessarily as Vergil's son. His arm is a totally different deal, and it hasn't been implied it has anything to do with Vergil either. At this point, nobody knows why he has that arm.

I never said that all physical similarities to Vergil can be explained by his acquisition of the Yamato. So again, I fail to see how this is relevant to the current discussion.

 

[TonyRedgraveDMC]

Well, the title still refers to Nero's origins, nothing else, so that's the easy answer, but sure, cool, all I was saying then is that some people respond to "Vergil's son" believers (who believe that being Vergil's son explains how he is a descendant of Sparda's blood AND his connection with Yamato) with "Yamato just -chose- Nero or something and somehow it had previously become an extension of Vergil's soul, transferring some of Vergil's influence into Nero, explaining his arm and hair and entire demonic relation to Sparda" when this just is not the case.

 

[Lord Nero]

Precisely. And "wears red and blue" part is why I concluded it is indeed possible for him to be Sparda's reincarnation... Vergil wears blue, Dante wears red, Nero wears both.

(Though I guess it could be possible for Nero to be Sparda's son too, considering that Sparda disappeared and was not explicitly stated to have been killed... maybe guy just got bored).

According to the Devil May Cry wikia, he was killed. It stands to reason that if he wasn't dead, he would just return to the human world and reign over it again. I'm also pretty sure DMC1's intro movie states that he died. I wouldn't be surprised if it was due to old age. I mean, when he married Eva he must've at least been hundreds of years old, considering he ruled over the humans for a long time.

It could be possible he's Sparda's reincarnation, but that would mean he's in possession of his soul, or part of it. It doesn't mean his body is in any way connected to Sparda.

 

[Lord Nero]

Well, the title still refers to Nero's origins, nothing else, so that's the easy answer, but sure, cool, all I was saying then is that some people respond to "Vergil's son" believers (who believe that being Vergil's son explains how he is a descendant of Sparda's blood AND his connection with Yamato) with "Yamato just -chose- Nero or something and somehow it had previously become an extension of Vergil's soul, transferring some of Vergil's influence into Nero, explaining his arm and hair and entire demonic relation to Sparda" when this just is not the case.

Being Vergil's son is not the only explanation for being a descendant of Sparda. As you can read in the 32 pages of this thread.

I think it was said that the Rebellion carries Dante's soul (that's why the sword was 'awakened'), so why wouldn't the Yamato carry Vergil's soul? But yeah, the Yamato giving Nero Vergil's soul does not explain why he always had white hair, OR his arm. But I never said it did... so who are you replying to?

The Yamato does not need to choose anyone - where did you come up with that? It's quite possible Dante would've been able to restore it just like Nero did. As far as I know, Nero can restore the Yamato because he is related to Sparda, just like Dante and Vergil are.
It's obvious Vergil's soul (or part of it) is inside the Yamato. If it isn't, then what was Nero's whole Vergil speech good for? How would his blue Devil Trigger (with a sheath for Yamato) be explicable? If it's his own Devil Trigger, wouldn't it make sense for it to be red and blue or purple just like the rest of him?

Oh, and I'm not sure you can consider an artbook to be canon. All that is canon is the final product, not what came before it. Remember that Nero had a full Devil Trigger in the artwork, just like Dante. And Dante's DT design was completely different - he even had a tail. So I wouldn't consider a scribble to be canon.