Nero's origins - What do you think?
- Thread starter Asmodaius
- Start date
Zero
(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
I don't have a problem with Vergil having sex. As long as he's an ADULT while he's doing it. I'd prefer anything child-sex related to stay far away from Devil May Cry, or any fiction I enjoy for that matter. If that makes me a prude then whatever, I guess I'm a prude then.
It's one of the reasons people are saying Vergil can't possibly be Nero's father, he'd have been 11-13 years old. My argument against that was the timeline has always been inconsistent so I like to think he was in the 19 -21 range....but this is on the hope that the common knowledge of Vergil/Dante's age is completely off.
berto
I Saw the Devil
A little bit.
I've seen and read fiction where there is depiction of children having sex but it was always coming of age stories and they were always fairly close in age. First time I read a story with that element I was feeling pretty uncomfortable, though, so I understand where you're coming from.
I think that's a bit limited. I'd say he could've been anywhere from 13 to 20. I still don't think it's his kid but if that was a possibility I'd say he could've been that old.
Anyway, I'm just not sold on it. I don't buy that Nero are related beyond been of Sparda's bloodline.
Zero
(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
Ha. XD Well, you wouldn't be wrong. It's something I feel strongly about. I don't tolerate child exploitation. Coming-of age...well that is different. But there's a fine line there. I'd prefer it if my games did not go anywhere near that line.
Where do you think he came from then?
TonyRedgraveDMC
Well-known Member
Even the time lines we do have DO support him, it depends on 1. How young you're willing to believe Nero is in DMC4. 2. If there is some 'wiggle room' where the information given in an official interview (stating that Lady is 10 years older in 4 than she was in 3) to say that while 10 years pass, it's actually 10 years.. + 1 or 2 more. My personal view is if you stretch it, Vergil could have been 15 when it happens, which is reasonable giving the vague setting, Devil May Cry already has s few questionable things in it, I am a bit put off that something like THIS is what shouldn't be a part of the background mythos to this game series. Basically, it's been confirmed that Vergil being Nero's father is what Capcom had intended, and the timeline definitely allows it to be very possible, so I'm going to go with it. I too would prefer them come out and stabilize some details so the 'debate' can end. The only hints the game actually drops are either he is a descendant of Sparda's due to A. being Vergil's son or B. "God" made it so, possibly through some sort immaculate demonic conception. (Quote about God + Nero's messianic symbolism led me to this farfetched possibility)
ef9dante_oSsshea
Well-known Member
Nero may only be 17 in DMC4 just say for arguments sake it is 12 years after 3 and dante and vergil were 21 in 3, that would put vergil at 16 at the time of conceiving.
I always thought it was DMC1 was ten years from 3 with 4 being a year or two after that
I always thought it was DMC1 was ten years from 3 with 4 being a year or two after that
TonyRedgraveDMC
Well-known Member
Nope. DMC3 manga puts them at 18 and DMC3 says it's been a year since those events. Interview states Lady is 10 years older in 4 than she was in 3, I just think that by saying 10 years she can be a couple more years ahead, as the person could have been rounding down/simplifying the age gap. I'm willing to believe Nero is maybe no younger than 16.
Lord Nero
Ultraviolet Sentinel
I still don't like the idea that Vergil might've had a child with someone at the age of 10 to 15. I'm not sure if Capcom would support this idea of children having their own children. I'm pretty sure 10 year old Vergil would be focused on survival, not having kids. And rape by a human woman seems a stretch, since Vergil could kill that rapist even if he were fifteen. He's a half-demon after all.
And then you still have to wonder why Vergil would even have a child with a human in the first place.
Allow me to explain. Dante hated Sparda at first for not being there to protect them (see DMC3 ''I don't have a father''). Vergil, on the other hand, seems to respect him, and even tries to emulate him. He thinks it's his mother's fault for dying because she was weak, as all humans are. His quote of ''without power, you cannot protect anything - let alone yourself'' pertains to his mother. She was too weak to protect herself, and I guess too weak to protect the twins too. It's quite possible he has no respect for humans, and like I said, he thinks they're too weak to protect anything. So why would he have a child with a weak, unworthy human who can't protect their child? He would even be consigning Nero to the fate of being mostly human. I really doubt he would torment himself and his son so much. Not to mention he would be putting his family in danger because Nero is part of the Sparda bloodline, so demons would try to snuff out Nero's life any chance they get.
That said, love overrides almost every feeling you have. Love conquers all. So assuming Vergil did fall in love with a human woman (somehow), it is possible he had Nero with her when he was 18, in the time Dante and Vergil hadn't spoken, according to DMC3 (''it's been a year since we last met'').
That's a theory I saw online - though you'd still have to ignore the official comments on how old Dante is in DMC4. He would not be ''about ten years older than in DMC3'' - if Vergil had Nero when he was 18, and Nero is 19, then Dante would have to be 37 in DMC4, not 29. Considering Lady is confirmed to be 10 years older than in DMC3, that is a stretch. Here it is: http://vergil-neloangelo.deviantart...y-Vergil-confirmed-as-Nero-s-father-359932777
And yeah, Nero really doesn't look like he's 16... sorry. More like 18/19. So if Vergil had Nero at 18, then Dante could be 36/37 in DMC4.
And then you still have to wonder why Vergil would even have a child with a human in the first place.
Allow me to explain. Dante hated Sparda at first for not being there to protect them (see DMC3 ''I don't have a father''). Vergil, on the other hand, seems to respect him, and even tries to emulate him. He thinks it's his mother's fault for dying because she was weak, as all humans are. His quote of ''without power, you cannot protect anything - let alone yourself'' pertains to his mother. She was too weak to protect herself, and I guess too weak to protect the twins too. It's quite possible he has no respect for humans, and like I said, he thinks they're too weak to protect anything. So why would he have a child with a weak, unworthy human who can't protect their child? He would even be consigning Nero to the fate of being mostly human. I really doubt he would torment himself and his son so much. Not to mention he would be putting his family in danger because Nero is part of the Sparda bloodline, so demons would try to snuff out Nero's life any chance they get.
That said, love overrides almost every feeling you have. Love conquers all. So assuming Vergil did fall in love with a human woman (somehow), it is possible he had Nero with her when he was 18, in the time Dante and Vergil hadn't spoken, according to DMC3 (''it's been a year since we last met'').
That's a theory I saw online - though you'd still have to ignore the official comments on how old Dante is in DMC4. He would not be ''about ten years older than in DMC3'' - if Vergil had Nero when he was 18, and Nero is 19, then Dante would have to be 37 in DMC4, not 29. Considering Lady is confirmed to be 10 years older than in DMC3, that is a stretch. Here it is: http://vergil-neloangelo.deviantart...y-Vergil-confirmed-as-Nero-s-father-359932777
And yeah, Nero really doesn't look like he's 16... sorry. More like 18/19. So if Vergil had Nero at 18, then Dante could be 36/37 in DMC4.
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TonyRedgraveDMC
Well-known Member
It ALSO is possible he had sex when he was 15. In Devil May Cry's setting, doubt 15-16+ yr olds are regarded as "children". Disregard DMC1 entirely if you're too squicked out to take such things seriously in the narrative. Also, Vergil doesn't consider himself human, so he wouldn't consider the 'math' like that. He would only see that his father was the Legendary Dark Knight Sparda, a devil among devils, and he is his son, and Nero would be his son. No way to know if Vergil would even regard the situation at all either. Vergil does NOT need to be 18 to have children in any standard.
Lord Nero
Ultraviolet Sentinel
Disregard DMC1 entirely? What do you mean? Was there underage sex in that game?
No, he doesn't need to be 18, but you didn't read my comment completely, did you? My point is that he could've had Nero when he was 18, in the time when he was unaccounted for according to DMC3 (''it's been a year since we last met''). Dante is 19 in DMC3, so a year ago = 18. Where, exactly, did you get this idea that Vergil had Nero when he was 15/16? Is it speculation based on logic, or is it just how you would like the timeline to turn out?
''Basically, it's been confirmed that Vergil being Nero's father is what Capcom had intended''.
Uuh, wut? Nothing's been confirmed. Just because you saw a character anniversary guide say that ''people think he's Vergil's son'', that still isn't confirmation. Neither is an art book that shows a picture of Nero with a text balloon going ''he's Vergil's son''. Confirmation is when it's 100% certain something is the case. Not 90%, not even 99%.
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Picard
Starfleet Demon
In medieval times (and Renaissance, I think), maturity was considered as being about 12 years old, and they oftentimes had children while they were 14 to 16 years old. Legal majority, however, was typically set at 21 years of age.
TonyRedgraveDMC
Well-known Member
So point being that acceptable age of reproduction is not written in stone
Picard
Starfleet Demon
Precisely. It depends a lot on general cultural/societal situation.
TonyRedgraveDMC
Well-known Member
No underage sex (as I've been frequently clarifying, assuming Vergil is lawful in any way, there STILL is no indication what the legal age is) but there is a strong romantic atmosphere between a character and his mother. (leaving out the game's specific definitions is no different than boldly holding DMC to modern standard "legal age") Right, I understand, but since 18 is your magic number, Vergil was 18 BEFORE he met Dante in the manga, which means he also was unaccounted for between age 8 and 18 minus the duration of those years we DO have accounts for. Yes, I've said it already before, if Nero is >15 <20 years old and the "Lady is 10 years older" is true, that leaves the possibility that DMC4 is set >9 <15 years after DMC3 and that would leave Vergil being somewhere between 14 and 17, and 14 isn't really that implausible for someone like Vergil. Also, I didn't say that it was 100% confirmed Vergil was Nero's father, I said that it was confirmed that that's what Capcom intended.
berto
I Saw the Devil
Sparda was 2000 years old and traveled the world. He was worshiped as a god in some and a saviour in others. He was also a good looking dude. I think he had more than a single opportunity to meet someone and create a family tree. And that's just the time he spent as a human, god know how long he lived in hell as a demon, he could be tens of thousands of years old, that's a long time to not have children.
Zero
(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
I'm with you on this one. I think it'd be cool if he fell in love. (I wonder what kind of woman she would be though.) Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't recall the series ever really saying anywhere he hated humans in general....perhaps people were confusing him with Sesshoumaru?
And like berto said, its fine if it's something like a coming-of-age thing. As long as it's tastefully done. I just don't think they could do it well, let alone in a socially acceptable way. Unless they changed the ages.
It's a fine idea, problem is there is virtually no evidence to support that other than "Sparda was old"
There is a long list of in-game evidence and official sources that point to the father/son theory though.
berto
I Saw the Devil
Yeah, but it's all very circumstantial. There is no real solid evidence where it's clear or even plausible, just hearsay and a lot of maybes. Supposedly the last art book has a definitive and spelled out but until Udon gets around to finally translating it I'm not believing till I see it.
Lord Nero
Ultraviolet Sentinel
''(leaving out the game's specific definitions is no different than boldly holding DMC to modern standard 'legal age')''
Dude, DMC3 took place around the 1990s, and DMC4 took place somewhere around the year 2000. That is modern. They live in a modern age. So obviously I'm not going to assume Vergil had a kid with someone at age 10 to 15 because 'society wouldn't frown on it'. It would.
And why would Vergil have a kid at that age? You have no evidence that even remotely hints at it. Why is it so hard to accept for you that Vergil might've had a kid in the year Dante and him hadn't seen each other - when he was 18? It's not a 'magic number' - Vergil's absence was referred to in DMC3. At least that's something to go on.
I have no reason to think Nero is 15. As far as I know, it's usual (in the case of DMC) for Capcom to create adult protagonists. Dante was about 19, and Nero also looks adult, so I'm gonna assume he's somewhere around 18 to 20 years old. No sense in thinking he's 15.
Also: http://devilmaycry.org/threads/how-old-are-nero-kryie-and-credo.4458/
Don't know where they got it from, but if Nero is 10 years younger than Dante, and Nero is indeed younger than 20, that would mean Dante is around 30 in DMC4. It all still points to him being 29/30, not 35 or 40 or whatever.
I really doubt Capcom would say that Vergil had a kid when he was still a kid himself. Doesn't seem like their style. Besides, we have no reason to believe he did.
I'm not saying it's all impossible, but it is a bit of a stretch. Right now, I'm thinking Capcom just messed up big time. I also just read that the Devil Bringer was in fact only a gimmick. They wanted to put it on Dante at first (because you know, f*ck the story...): http://www.wired.com/2007/10/interview-hiroy/
If he is Vergil's son, they've got a lot of fixing to do.
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Lord Nero
Ultraviolet Sentinel
Sorry for reviving a dead thread, but I felt that creating a new thread would take up an unnecessary amount of space on the forum - especially considering this post is one that's hard to reply to. It's more a statement than a question or point for debate.
Nero is a mystery. The novel said he's the son of a prostitute, but what if that's simply people's views on the woman who birthed Nero, because she didn't want to tell people his identity?
The game often hints at Nero being a reincarnation of Sparda, with Berial saying he's just like him. Then there's the symbolism behind his looks (red and blue... purple. Red Queen, Blue Rose). He was at least born with Sparda's blood.
Not a typical reincarnation.
He's a ''descendant'' of Sparda's blood, and ''inherited'' his blood. That rules out the idea that he's his reincarnation (the soul manifested in an unrelated body).
He ''carries the blood of Sparda''. If he carries Sparda's blood in the strictest sense, it would mean he's his son. After all, technically if he were Vergil's son he would carry Vergil's blood, not Sparda's.
So Nero is some kind of Jesus.
Nero in DMC4 is naturally weaker than Dante, which implies he's not a son of Sparda. Besides, Sparda died before Eva did. But what if Sparda somehow impregnated a human woman after his death? Sort of like a virgin birth: it would fit with the theme of Nero being some kind of incarnation of Sparda: essentially being Jesus (the rebellious, progressive Savior). It would explain why Nero's mother kept him secret and safe; if people found out he's Sparda's reincarnation, who knows what'd happen. You can explain Nero being weaker than Dante because part of Sparda's soul created him, making him a weaker Sparda. I suppose this explains the color symbolism... broken purple.
Ooor... he's a test-tube kid.
Or Nero was created by somebody from Sparda's or Nero Angelo's DNA, for the Order to use. I do think Mundus tried to recreate Sparda to serve him again by corrupting Vergil (corrupt Vergil costume even looks like Sparda), so it's possible Nero actually has Sparda's blood AND Vergil's blood. It sure seems Sanctus has inside knowledge about it, and Sparda having lived in Fortuna and Vergil having visited it is suspicious. Nero's DT has a broken halo, which is odd, because only Sparda counts as a 'fallen angel', since he betrayed Mundus. Also, why does Nero's DT artwork feature some kind of eye patch/light? Only Sparda had a monocle. POM POM POOOOOM.
Of course, I'm willing to accept that Nero is Vergil's son. The point of Vergil's visit to Fortuna could be that he wanted to see his child. That said, only the novel says Vergil visited Fortuna, and the novel was written by Bingo after he left Capcom, so it's up to Capcom to decide who Nero is.
Nero is a mystery. The novel said he's the son of a prostitute, but what if that's simply people's views on the woman who birthed Nero, because she didn't want to tell people his identity?
The game often hints at Nero being a reincarnation of Sparda, with Berial saying he's just like him. Then there's the symbolism behind his looks (red and blue... purple. Red Queen, Blue Rose). He was at least born with Sparda's blood.
Not a typical reincarnation.
He's a ''descendant'' of Sparda's blood, and ''inherited'' his blood. That rules out the idea that he's his reincarnation (the soul manifested in an unrelated body).
He ''carries the blood of Sparda''. If he carries Sparda's blood in the strictest sense, it would mean he's his son. After all, technically if he were Vergil's son he would carry Vergil's blood, not Sparda's.
So Nero is some kind of Jesus.
Nero in DMC4 is naturally weaker than Dante, which implies he's not a son of Sparda. Besides, Sparda died before Eva did. But what if Sparda somehow impregnated a human woman after his death? Sort of like a virgin birth: it would fit with the theme of Nero being some kind of incarnation of Sparda: essentially being Jesus (the rebellious, progressive Savior). It would explain why Nero's mother kept him secret and safe; if people found out he's Sparda's reincarnation, who knows what'd happen. You can explain Nero being weaker than Dante because part of Sparda's soul created him, making him a weaker Sparda. I suppose this explains the color symbolism... broken purple.
Ooor... he's a test-tube kid.
Or Nero was created by somebody from Sparda's or Nero Angelo's DNA, for the Order to use. I do think Mundus tried to recreate Sparda to serve him again by corrupting Vergil (corrupt Vergil costume even looks like Sparda), so it's possible Nero actually has Sparda's blood AND Vergil's blood. It sure seems Sanctus has inside knowledge about it, and Sparda having lived in Fortuna and Vergil having visited it is suspicious. Nero's DT has a broken halo, which is odd, because only Sparda counts as a 'fallen angel', since he betrayed Mundus. Also, why does Nero's DT artwork feature some kind of eye patch/light? Only Sparda had a monocle. POM POM POOOOOM.
Of course, I'm willing to accept that Nero is Vergil's son. The point of Vergil's visit to Fortuna could be that he wanted to see his child. That said, only the novel says Vergil visited Fortuna, and the novel was written by Bingo after he left Capcom, so it's up to Capcom to decide who Nero is.
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