Nero's origins - What do you think?
- Thread starter Asmodaius
- Start date
Well I went over the DMC4 dialogue script and here are all the words used to describe Nero:
Nero is "a demon," the "same" thing as Dante and the Order's demons. (Meaning he's a demon)
Nero possesses "demonic power," Agnus and Berial were amazed when they saw Nero's arm and its power.
Nero has "Indeed inheritaed Sparda's power." ".....carries the blood of Sparda." The Savior needs Sparda's power to be active/powerful etc. The fact that Nero could be used at all is sign that he is part of Sparda's blood/family.
Sanctus says to Trish; "Oh, it’s you…Gloria. Unfortunately you did not anticipate a descendant of Sparda’s blood and because of this boy, you have been outwitted, and the savior will be completed."
Here are the cold hard facts:
The Order knew nothing of Nero's demonic arm/power until this incident.
Nero is a demon and he has "inheriated" Sparda's power, "carries Sparda's blood" and he's a "descendant" of Sparda.
Notice Nero is never called "Son of the Legenadry Dark Knight" like Dante is called but rather "descendant of Sparda."
People you CAN NOT ignore these cold hard facts. With Nero's "bond" with Yamato its clear as to who's son Nero is.
Nero is "a demon," the "same" thing as Dante and the Order's demons. (Meaning he's a demon)
Nero possesses "demonic power," Agnus and Berial were amazed when they saw Nero's arm and its power.
Nero has "Indeed inheritaed Sparda's power." ".....carries the blood of Sparda." The Savior needs Sparda's power to be active/powerful etc. The fact that Nero could be used at all is sign that he is part of Sparda's blood/family.
Sanctus says to Trish; "Oh, it’s you…Gloria. Unfortunately you did not anticipate a descendant of Sparda’s blood and because of this boy, you have been outwitted, and the savior will be completed."
Here are the cold hard facts:
The Order knew nothing of Nero's demonic arm/power until this incident.
Nero is a demon and he has "inheriated" Sparda's power, "carries Sparda's blood" and he's a "descendant" of Sparda.
Notice Nero is never called "Son of the Legenadry Dark Knight" like Dante is called but rather "descendant of Sparda."
People you CAN NOT ignore these cold hard facts. With Nero's "bond" with Yamato its clear as to who's son Nero is.
He obviously is Vergil's son, there's little doubt and those who do not see it are in denial. No one provided a source for Dante's age in DMC4 yet, not to mention numbers are retconned often.
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The following ages for Dante in the games are as followed.
DMC 3: 18/19.
DMC 1: 28.
DMC Anime: 28/29. (Explained that the Anime is set a year after DMC 1 and just before DMC 4)
DMC 4: 29.
DMC 2: Between 30-40 years old (Potentially and more than likely this age in DMC 2)
As we already know when we see Nero, he is probably around 18-20 years old. And in that case, Vergil would of been between 9-11 years old when he was apparently suppose to impregnate a woman who conceived Nero. This is implausible.
The theory doesn't really add up, if you look at age. Nobody is in denial. I am going with facts here also. Vergil would of been too young to of had a baby with anyone.
I agree that we have to look at it from the point of view that he is a descendant of Sparda. But that could mean lots of things. We don't know half the story of Sparda and his vast journeys and ordeals in our World. Just because it states 'descendant', we can't look at him as being a son of Sparda. Or a grandson of Sparda (As the ages don't fit anyway). For all we know, Nero could of been conceived by another lady who Sparda went with (Although it is unlikely) perhaps he found love again. Like I said, we can only speculate. But we can't say that he simply 'is' really close to Dante or Vergil in terms of being family. He could just be related in some way.
Also just because he 'inherited' some of Sparda's powers, does not also mean he has to be a son of Sparda. If he is related to Dante and Vergil, he will have Sparda's blood or power anyway. To say he 'inherited' it is like saying it was handed down to him (Like he didn't really start with it at all). If Nero was never born with demonic blood, how is he a son of Sparda? Or even a son of Vergil for that matter? It doesn't make sense, theoretically.
You have to really question Sparda's background. What his life was truly like. We know so very very little about this. But looking at the picture as a whole, I think that it is unlikely that Nero is Vergil's son.
If we were to agree that Nero is Vergil's son, we would have to agree that Vergil had sex with a lady around the age of 9-11 years old. And that's very creepy, even for Vergil's standards.
DMC 3: 18/19.
DMC 1: 28.
DMC Anime: 28/29. (Explained that the Anime is set a year after DMC 1 and just before DMC 4)
DMC 4: 29.
DMC 2: Between 30-40 years old (Potentially and more than likely this age in DMC 2)
As we already know when we see Nero, he is probably around 18-20 years old. And in that case, Vergil would of been between 9-11 years old when he was apparently suppose to impregnate a woman who conceived Nero. This is implausible.
The theory doesn't really add up, if you look at age. Nobody is in denial. I am going with facts here also. Vergil would of been too young to of had a baby with anyone.
I agree that we have to look at it from the point of view that he is a descendant of Sparda. But that could mean lots of things. We don't know half the story of Sparda and his vast journeys and ordeals in our World. Just because it states 'descendant', we can't look at him as being a son of Sparda. Or a grandson of Sparda (As the ages don't fit anyway). For all we know, Nero could of been conceived by another lady who Sparda went with (Although it is unlikely) perhaps he found love again. Like I said, we can only speculate. But we can't say that he simply 'is' really close to Dante or Vergil in terms of being family. He could just be related in some way.
Also just because he 'inherited' some of Sparda's powers, does not also mean he has to be a son of Sparda. If he is related to Dante and Vergil, he will have Sparda's blood or power anyway. To say he 'inherited' it is like saying it was handed down to him (Like he didn't really start with it at all). If Nero was never born with demonic blood, how is he a son of Sparda? Or even a son of Vergil for that matter? It doesn't make sense, theoretically.
You have to really question Sparda's background. What his life was truly like. We know so very very little about this. But looking at the picture as a whole, I think that it is unlikely that Nero is Vergil's son.
If we were to agree that Nero is Vergil's son, we would have to agree that Vergil had sex with a lady around the age of 9-11 years old. And that's very creepy, even for Vergil's standards.
DMC4 takes place ten years after DMC3; I'm positive Kobayashi himself said ''about ten years after DMC3'', but I can't find a link to the interview or whatever it was (probably because it's so old that it's been deleted). I don't believe the development team said that, and I never said they did. Are you talking to the right person? You only called me 'The guy'. Dante looks like he's thirty to me, so I think it's a matter of opinion. He does have a light beard, so he may look older because of it.
Nero is 17. Alright, so I wasn't mistaken, then. It was either 17 or 19.
I don't see why Agnus would have to have studied Yamato for five years. Besides, Nero Angelo (Vergil) never wielded Yamato, if I recall correctly, so it may have been lost (and found) a while before he was killed; perhaps at the end of DMC3, when Vergil is defeated and enslaved.
DMC4 doesn't take place in 2008, I think. Sparda returned to the human world about two millennia after he defeated Mundus, (which was in the year 0) so it was at the end of the 20th century. If DMC1 took place in 2001, which I heard somewhere, then since Dante's 28 in DMC1, he would have been born in 1973. DMC3 would have taken place in 1992. Heck, as far as I know, no dates were mentioned, so DMC4 could take place in 2015 or whatever.
Sanctus called Nero a ''descendant of Sparda's blood''. This is very cryptic, as 'blood' may also mean 'kindred' i.e. family. So he could be saying Nero is a descendant of a relative of Sparda's. I personally don't believe he's a third son of Sparda, since the other games would not make any sense if that were the case. It's always been about Vergil and Dante and the two halves of the amulet. Furthermore, in theory, anyone who 'carries the blood of Sparda' could also be Sparda's brother or sister and so on. It's called a bloodline for a reason.
Nero can't be Vergil's son, as I have argued many times on this page. To be honest, I don't want to write why I'm certain of that again. You can still go back a few pages, right? Some more talk about the DMC timeline can be found here: http://devilmaycry.org/community/threads/dmc-timeline.5336/.
Sparda saved the world 2000 years ago according to Sanctus so that would be AD 30 or so. Sanctus paints Sparda as Jesus. DMC1 said Sparda saved the world Millennium ago. So I guess Sparda served as feudal lord of Fortuna 2000 years ago.
Nero could be Sparda's kid from another woman but Nero is painted in Vergil's light plus the novel hints that he is Vergil'skid.
Where did you get those ages from?
Nero could be Sparda's kid from another woman but Nero is painted in Vergil's light plus the novel hints that he is Vergil'skid.
Where did you get those ages from?
We, the fans are going in circles... Vergil was 19 in DMC3 and Nero is 17 in DMC4. Again, Dante is at least 30+ in there... no way late 20's. He is simply too aged.
And I'm pretty certain he is... well, everyone to his/her own
Where does it state that Nero is 17 years old? And if so, it still proves my point that Vergil would of been too young. So why do people keep saying that Nero is Vergil's son? The DMC 4 Novel is not specified as canon or not. The guy that wrote it didn't even work for Capcom at the time. He was probably just going with his own little story (But didn't put much thought into the dates).
DMC Anime is stated to take place a year after Devil May Cry 1. Dante would be 28/29 in the DMC Anime. Just like Lionheart stated, he saw something in an interview but doesn't remember where to find the source. I can't give the source. But I can give my word that I read somewhere that Dante is 28/29 in Devil May Cry 4.
Just because Dante has a slight bit of stubble. I have stubble myself. It usually does make you look older than you are. Does not make it implausible for Dante to be around 29 years of age in Devil May Cry 4.
Where does it state that Nero was always partially a demon? Take a look in your Devil May Cry 4 Instruction Manual. It clearly reads that Nero was 'infected' by a demon. This is clear proof that he is not a 'direct' descendant of Sparda's blood or power. Therefore he can't be Vergil's son.
DMC Anime is stated to take place a year after Devil May Cry 1. Dante would be 28/29 in the DMC Anime. Just like Lionheart stated, he saw something in an interview but doesn't remember where to find the source. I can't give the source. But I can give my word that I read somewhere that Dante is 28/29 in Devil May Cry 4.
Just because Dante has a slight bit of stubble. I have stubble myself. It usually does make you look older than you are. Does not make it implausible for Dante to be around 29 years of age in Devil May Cry 4.
Where does it state that Nero was always partially a demon? Take a look in your Devil May Cry 4 Instruction Manual. It clearly reads that Nero was 'infected' by a demon. This is clear proof that he is not a 'direct' descendant of Sparda's blood or power. Therefore he can't be Vergil's son.
Since Nero has the blood of Sparda, it seems logical to me that he's always been a descendant of his or of a relative of Sparda's. That, and he's got white hair, which he's always had. Nobody else in the DMC games has white hair except those related to Sparda. Well, them and old people, I guess. I thought Capcom stated Nero is 17, but again, I can't find that info, so let's assume he's as old as Dante was in DMC3, namely 19. That would mean Vergil had Nero when he was 10 or 11, which seems absurd to me. If he had intercourse and then dumped the kid, that would give the whole of DMC a bad image. I mean, Vergil hates humans, and he was abducted when he was eight, when Eva died (Yeah, DMC3's story of Dante fighting Vergil doesn't make sense; Dante had never seen Vergil since they were children).
The DMC4 novel is not considered canon, as far as I know. I think the guy who wrote the novel was sacked by Capcom.
The instruction manual says that Nero received an injury to his shoulder, not that he was infected. Since Dante's Devil Trigger was triggered when he was injured (impaled by Rebellion), I'd guess that's what happened to Nero too. The DT seems to be activated when they're injured by demonic means, so I suppose Nero got a partial DT when he was injured in Mitis Forest. After that, he gets another DT, activated by Yamato, or rather, the soul fragment inside Yamato, which I think was Vergil's, or possibly Sparda's, since Nero gives the Sparda speech after he freed himself.
I think it's important to note that Capcom originally planned to give Nero a full Devil Trigger, as you can see from my avatar. That could mean he was meant to be a half-devil like Dante instead of a quarter devil. In conclusion, I can say that I believe the blue devil floating behind/above Nero was created just as an excuse to give Nero his Devil Bringer power of pulling enemies toward him. Of course, we can explain away 'why this and that', but I suspect Capcom doesn't know either. They just went creative and created bullshit in the process, which is why they've created DmC: Devil May Cry; to start over.
I think it's pointless to discuss further when you keep talking your own thing.
I remember Nero once to be called a teenager in one of the interviews, also Dante calls him "kid"
http://iphonetips.org/devil-may-cry-4-refrain-iphone-game-review.html this and DMC4 novel list him as 17, only sources I could find.
The guy who wrote the novel also wrote DMC3 and DMC4's story, so by your logic the games are also fanfiction in terms of the series' canon.
Nero's arm got infected by an Assault (the lizards) shortly before the events of DMC4 (infected as a wound) and he had white hair and blue eyes since child.
Also again, no source for Dante's age in DMC4 thus it's not valid. Kobayashi isn't very reliable because he was just a Producer and many things stated by him turned out false, Bingo Morihashi was the story writer.
Deadly Fortune novel is even licensed by Capcom (facepalm) and never was stated as non-canon by them.
The source of Devil Bringer according to the novel isn't clear either: Nero went to sleep, had a nightmare with a Vergil in it, woke up with his arm healed from the Assault attack and it already transformed.... that's all to it.
So a short recap:
-Nero is Sparda's descendant
-part human-part demon
-has white hair and blue eyes
-could repair Yamato and it responds to him
-can use summoned swords (before you say that that has nothing to do with Vergil, why can't Dante do so since he is physically and power-wise the exact copy of Vergil as a twin?)
-if you consider the novel as canon, Vergil visited the city of Fortuna circa during the events of DMC3 and Nero had a nightmare about him
-time setting of 4th game not clear, but if it's 2008 then Dante is 35... 35-17=18 that would make it possible for Vergil to be "legally" a father
I remember Nero once to be called a teenager in one of the interviews, also Dante calls him "kid"
http://iphonetips.org/devil-may-cry-4-refrain-iphone-game-review.html this and DMC4 novel list him as 17, only sources I could find.
The guy who wrote the novel also wrote DMC3 and DMC4's story, so by your logic the games are also fanfiction in terms of the series' canon.
Nero's arm got infected by an Assault (the lizards) shortly before the events of DMC4 (infected as a wound) and he had white hair and blue eyes since child.
Also again, no source for Dante's age in DMC4 thus it's not valid. Kobayashi isn't very reliable because he was just a Producer and many things stated by him turned out false, Bingo Morihashi was the story writer.
Deadly Fortune novel is even licensed by Capcom (facepalm) and never was stated as non-canon by them.
The source of Devil Bringer according to the novel isn't clear either: Nero went to sleep, had a nightmare with a Vergil in it, woke up with his arm healed from the Assault attack and it already transformed.... that's all to it.
So a short recap:
-Nero is Sparda's descendant
-part human-part demon
-has white hair and blue eyes
-could repair Yamato and it responds to him
-can use summoned swords (before you say that that has nothing to do with Vergil, why can't Dante do so since he is physically and power-wise the exact copy of Vergil as a twin?)
-if you consider the novel as canon, Vergil visited the city of Fortuna circa during the events of DMC3 and Nero had a nightmare about him
-time setting of 4th game not clear, but if it's 2008 then Dante is 35... 35-17=18 that would make it possible for Vergil to be "legally" a father
I think with regards to timeline and ages, they are flexible given that they are not dealt with within the games themselves so you can manipulate them however you want.So dante being 24 in DMC3 is just as viable dante being 19.
There in no one central guy who we can trust for continuity issues since most of them just rewrite or discard what has come before or play fast and loose. Plus capcom has a tendency to act like a chicken with its head cut off so we cant really trust what they say as that lead to no one really knowing what the reboot was.
So i think we are inclined to trust the novel given it was written by the former writer of 4.
holes in my theory are kobayashi seems to be nero's creator so he probably had nero's origin all figured out, we dont actually know what happened behind close doors so we dont know how itsuno or bingo feel about the characters or working with kobayashi.
There in no one central guy who we can trust for continuity issues since most of them just rewrite or discard what has come before or play fast and loose. Plus capcom has a tendency to act like a chicken with its head cut off so we cant really trust what they say as that lead to no one really knowing what the reboot was.
So i think we are inclined to trust the novel given it was written by the former writer of 4.
holes in my theory are kobayashi seems to be nero's creator so he probably had nero's origin all figured out, we dont actually know what happened behind close doors so we dont know how itsuno or bingo feel about the characters or working with kobayashi.
In the earliest interviews, Kobayashi says that Nero isn't related to Dante in any way and that similar looks is truly just a coincidence ... while later they state that they indeed are related but we will have to figure out how by ourselves.
That's why the guy is so full of trash.
I trust story dude more
That's why the guy is so full of trash.
I trust story dude more
Each to their own about opinions I suppose. But I think this is the answer to Nero's origins...
...Capcom DON'T know! Full stop. Nero is a descendant of Sparda. He's inherited his power. He is and apparently isn't related to Dante. He is 17 years of age. Potentially Vergil's kid, but only written in the Novels. And potentially not Vergil's kid, if the time-lines I stated are correct (Which I have done a lot of looking into, and I think they are all pretty accurate really). So that's it then. He is and isn't this that or anything. So does that make him nothing?
Conclusion...Nero is NOTHING! Well done Capcom, you are so full of ideas. Makes me wonder if Devil May Cry 4 was the main reason they wanted to hand DMC over to a game company that writes better story-lines? =/
...Capcom DON'T know! Full stop. Nero is a descendant of Sparda. He's inherited his power. He is and apparently isn't related to Dante. He is 17 years of age. Potentially Vergil's kid, but only written in the Novels. And potentially not Vergil's kid, if the time-lines I stated are correct (Which I have done a lot of looking into, and I think they are all pretty accurate really). So that's it then. He is and isn't this that or anything. So does that make him nothing?
Conclusion...Nero is NOTHING! Well done Capcom, you are so full of ideas. Makes me wonder if Devil May Cry 4 was the main reason they wanted to hand DMC over to a game company that writes better story-lines? =/
Yep, DMC canon never made much sense... lots of plotholes, contradictions and retcons.
And yep, that's the reason behind DmC reboot. They want to start anew because DMC was too hard and too late to fix in terms of story and characters... they simply ran out of ideas what to do with it.
And yep, that's the reason behind DmC reboot. They want to start anew because DMC was too hard and too late to fix in terms of story and characters... they simply ran out of ideas what to do with it.
I agree that Capcom has no idea either. That said, there are many ways to explain where Nero came from, and so, I don't think a reboot of DMC was needed.
Nero is indeed a descendant of Sparda, and nothing more is said about it, other than that he ''carries the blood of Sparda'' and that he's ''a descendant of Sparda's blood'', which could mean anything; he could be his grandson, he could be the son of a relative of Sparda's, and he could have been genetically engineered by some people under the command of Sanctus, by combining Dante and Vergil's blood or using Sparda's blood.
What seems clear to me is that his Devil Bringer arm is his own arm, as it's red and blue, which is Nero's color scheme. His arm manifested when he called for more power, which many people see as Vergil coming for the rescue. I don't see it that way, as Vergil would surely have done more than take over his arm. Besides, how the heck does someone's soul infect an arm?
I'm pretty sure Nero was supposed to have a full DT. Saying that he's always been a human seems a bit stupid to me. True, the manual states that he's human, but that's so as not to spoil the story. We're not meant to know that he's a half-demon or possibly a quarter demon until Dante says ''It seems you too are a (demon)...'', being interrupted by Nero throwing the huge stone sword at him. Nero didn't get ''Sparda's blood'' through a soul infecting his arm.
Nero's age is still unknown. That ipod-related site says he's 17, yes, but I really don't consider that evidence. I thought I read in an official source somewhere that Nero is 17, but I can't find it, so his age will have to remain unknown. I don't take the novel seriously, as it states a lot of things the game never speaks of. The guy who wrote the novel was fired.
I think we can trust Kobayashi when he says that DMC4 takes place ''about ten years after DMC3''. Dante's age in DMC3 is known to be 19, so let's say Dante is around 29 to 33 years old in DMC4. If he were 34/35, it should be ''about fifteen years after DMC3''. Dante is known to be 28 in DMC1, and DMC4 takes place after that. DMC2 is chronologically the last part of the story, and Dante seems to be in his early thirties there, or possibly not even thirty yet.
What's clear is that Nero is meant to resemble Sparda more than Vergil. His colors are blue and red, which make purple, which is Sparda's color. He talks like Sparda when he says: ''From that day forth, my arm changed, and a voice echoed: Power. Give me more power! And if I become a demon, so be it. I will endure the exile. Anything to protect her.'' Kyrie or Eva? Both priestesses. Become a demon or become a human? And what exile? He never got along with anyone, unlike Sparda, who had a life in the demon world. He gets a purple aura when he grips Yamato, and that purple sheen is still present even when he has his Devil Trigger that resembles Vergil or Nero Angelo. Berial says ''You are just like he was'', referring to Sparda, whom he met 2000 years ago. Yes, Berial was in the human world 2000 years before; ''When I came to this world two thousand years ago, there was no such human as the likes of you.'' Nero: ''Wanna make it another two thousand?''
Since Berial seems truly surprised to find someone who is that similar to Sparda, I'd say Nero is even more Sparda-like than Dante. I'm not sure what to think. He seems to draw on Vergil's soul when he wields the Yamato, and doesn't go into his own Devil Trigger mode. On the other hand, he has an arm that looks like a partial Devil Trigger. Maybe he needs to be injured more severely before he finally gets his own Devil Trigger? Or maybe there's no chance for him to get one, since he wasted it by relying on Yamato, and since he doesn't have a weapon that contains his soul, like Rebellion houses Dante's physical power and Yamato houses part of Vergil's soul.
I am looking forward to more Nero, or possibly Sparda, and more of the original Devil May Cry.
Since Berial seems truly surprised to find someone who is that similar to Sparda, I'd say Nero is even more Sparda-like than Dante. I'm not sure what to think. He seems to draw on Vergil's soul when he wields the Yamato, and doesn't go into his own Devil Trigger mode. On the other hand, he has an arm that looks like a partial Devil Trigger. Maybe he needs to be injured more severely before he finally gets his own Devil Trigger? Or maybe there's no chance for him to get one, since he wasted it by relying on Yamato, and since he doesn't have a weapon that contains his soul, like Rebellion houses Dante's physical power and Yamato houses part of Vergil's soul.
I am looking forward to more Nero, or possibly Sparda, and more of the original Devil May Cry.
I have little to no hope on that happening. And if so ever, I don't want it as much with the knowledge of them not giving a **** about the canon/story making sense. They would butcher it even more. They might release a "DMC5 novel" on fan's demands if they see enough are interested, but rarely after a reboot the original plot is being continued.
DmC is basically DMC3+DMC1+NT's Western touch.
DMC2 was the biggest mistake to happen and with DMC4, they cared more about cash than making a good game.
It's very unfinished.
And trust me, I also read manga and in one case something stated to be "about ten years" turned to be just 6 years.
DmC is basically DMC3+DMC1+NT's Western touch.
DMC2 was the biggest mistake to happen and with DMC4, they cared more about cash than making a good game.
It's very unfinished.
I know all of this, no need to repeat that. Also no point in bringing up DMC2 whatsoever, it doesn't affect anything.
And trust me, I also read manga and in one case something stated to be "about ten years" turned to be just 6 years.
We shouldn't forget that Nero was to have a full demonic form indeed (your avatar) but it got cut, and apparently it was to appear in Mission 20 against Sanctus in the final battle.
i would say the reboot is needed since Capcom doesn't seem to care about continuity/plot enough to fix it or get it right the first time.
I'm not saying you cant fix the series plot it just that it requires the devs to care enough which nero and dmc4 proves they dont care enough to get it right the first time or too actually clean up their mess.
DMC4 could have been a good way to tie up some loose ends and nero's origins should have been answered in dmc4 itself rather than pushing it off for a sequel.
I'm not saying you cant fix the series plot it just that it requires the devs to care enough which nero and dmc4 proves they dont care enough to get it right the first time or too actually clean up their mess.
DMC4 could have been a good way to tie up some loose ends and nero's origins should have been answered in dmc4 itself rather than pushing it off for a sequel.
