Nero. Is he really Vergil's son?

[King of Hell]

your case is true in RE's case, because RE was a survival horror, not much appealing to casuals, but DMC CREATED the stylish action genre, God of War & Ninja Gaiden followed on DMC's footsteps, & those games have a huge amount of fans. of course casuals need games to be easier, that's why DMC offers so many difficulty levels, they just need to add 2 more difficulty levels, if the series gets more fans, they might cut off the wait time between sequels. & get us a few spinoffs, the spinoffs focus on Nero, Kyrie, & maybe add Lady in a few games, while the main game focuses on Dante, & Trish sometimes.
capcom have the opportunity to create the spinoff series, they just need to attract fans in the next game, & split them in 2. if the game gets a little more mainstream, we could get a DMC material every year, first we get DMC6, then DMC: Nero's origin, then DMC 3D (a CGI movie), then DMC: Vergil Begins, DMC: The remake....etc

a lot of sales numbers will lead to this ^^^

 

[darkslayer13]

your case is true in RE's case, because RE was a survival horror, not much appealing to casuals, but DMC CREATED the stylish action genre, God of War & Ninja Gaiden followed on DMC's footsteps, & those games have a huge amount of fans. of course casuals need games to be easier, that's why DMC offers so many difficulty levels, they just need to add 2 more difficulty levels, if the series gets more fans, they might cut off the wait time between sequels. & get us a few spinoffs, the spinoffs focus on Nero, Kyrie, & maybe add Lady in a few games, while the main game focuses on Dante, & Trish sometimes.
capcom have the opportunity to create the spinoff series, they just need to attract fans in the next game, & split them in 2. if the game gets a little more mainstream, we could get a DMC material every year, first we get DMC6, then DMC: Nero's origin, then DMC 3D (a CGI movie), then DMC: Vergil Begins, DMC: The remake....etc

a lot of sales numbers will lead to this ^^^

the more frequently content is made the less time is spent on that content. that tends to greatly reduce the quality of that content. rushed games tend to have: lower quality graphics, no gameplay innovations, badly done additions that mess up gameplay mechanics. terrible stories that contribute nothing. and a substantial reduction in overall quality. basically the more time in between games the better the game can be. ( sometimes a game takes years and is still terrible but in those cases it would have probably been unplayable if it was finished in less than a year. and sometimes a game comes out quickly and is still good but those games would have been even better if more time was taken to refine the game.)

 

[moseslmpg]

KOH: The genre of a game or movie is totally irrelevant to it going mainstream.

 

[King of Hell]

there are a lot of games that take 2 years to develop & are considered one of the best, if capcom has higher budget, they'd hire more developer, & more talented ones, which reduces the time A LOT, there was an article a few weeks ago that said capcom would be developing some more games in the American & European branches, which would lead to develop the games in less than half the time it could take. capcom said that themselves, the time changed to half just because they changed studios, what would happen if they hire more developers?
MMORPGs need 5 years to develop, a Devil May Cry game needs more developers & more talented ones for that matter. of course different teams deal with different material, one team to deal with the main game, the spinoff, the movie...etc would be overkill.

@ moseslmpg: yes the genre is relevant, mostly games & movies that are on a less mainstream genre tend to shift more to the mainstream genre to attract more fans, but the DMC genre is already a mainstream genre.


EDIT:
here's the article
http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3180592

 

[Vampi]

*looks at KoH sig* I never got to unlock that DMC 1 Cast Photo. DMC 1 is so damn hard damnit! Yet DMC 3 is easy for me.

 

[moseslmpg]

@ moseslmpg: yes the genre is relevant, mostly games & movies that are on a less mainstream genre tend to shift more to the mainstream genre to attract more fans, but the DMC genre is already a mainstream genre.

Let me clarify: The process of mainstreaming is the same for all genres.

And DMC wasn't mainstream when it started. GOW is a mainstream action game. DMC and NG were too hard in general for casual fans to get into it. DMC1 was an entirely new genre basically, so it had to be somewhat niche. DMC4 is the closest DMC has come to mainstream. It doesn't need to go any further.

 

[Quentarus]

I find that he is not Virgil's son because Virgil never associated with a girl as far as we know. We know that he basically was a loner. But i do believe that Nero is Dante's son. Look at the facts. Nero looks and kinda acts like Dante. Same hair. Same fighting style. And Dante had something with Trish. What is your opinion?

Trish is actually a evil manifestation of his mother that betrayed her creator. Mondus. in DMC 1

Dante doesnt have a kid, I believe that Virgils demon energy infused with Nero. His DT is Virgils DT form

 

[V]

I don't think that's true at all. When things go mainstream they tend to get worse. The more fans that there are, the more that Capcom has to appeal to the lowest common denominator. The more fans, the more casual it is.

^ This. Popularity can ruin, and often does these days.

 

[King of Hell]

true that popularity sometimes ruin games, but its not a rule, we can't say we don't want DMC to be popular because the game would suck, its a possibility. & I love to be optimistic.

most popular Stealth game = best stealth game = MGS
most popular MMORPG = best MMORPG = WoW
most popular turn-based RPG = best turn-based RPG = FF

^^ you see where I'm going?
popularity can give the game momentum, or it can destroy it, its up to the developers.

& who says DMC isn't popular? at least its popular to most critics & developers, it started a new genre, & reviewers made the game the base of that genre, they compare any game in that genre to DMC.
still, it doesn't sell that much compared to the other games in the genre, the highest selling DMC titles are the original & DMC4, they're the only titles to sell higher than 2 mils.

 

[V]

Just saying. It is up to the developers as you say, but if something becomes too popular and the developers start trying to 'appeal to ______' with their next game, they can start to lose the very essence of a series that made it a hit in the first place. It's a balancing act, between having enough fans to warrant further development and sequels and not ruining a franchise out of the greed of trying to make it appeal to a wider and wider audience.

I'm just wary of whenever developers say those terrible little words "we're trying to appeal to..." because that usually means they want to make changes to that essence.

 

[darkslayer13]

there are a lot of games that take 2 years to develop & are considered one of the best, if capcom has higher budget, they'd hire more developer, & more talented ones, which reduces the time A LOT, there was an article a few weeks ago that said capcom would be developing some more games in the American & European branches, which would lead to develop the games in less than half the time it could take. capcom said that themselves, the time changed to half just because they changed studios, what would happen if they hire more developers?
MMORPGs need 5 years to develop, a Devil May Cry game needs more developers & more talented ones for that matter. of course different teams deal with different material, one team to deal with the main game, the spinoff, the movie...etc would be overkill.

adding more developers will only increase the quality if those developers are hired to boost the quality. if the goal is to increase quantity the added developers will just increase the rate at which games can be rushed out meaning more crappy games. the goal should never be to reduce the time it takes to make the game because shortcuts that can ruin the quality of the game are the easiest way to make things go faster.

the goal should always be to make the games better otherwise they will get worse.

so what would you like more. a few really good dmc games that take a while to get made or a million games that barely qualify as dmc that are all basically the same as dmc4 but with random "stories" that all sound just like dmc2( each with it's own slightly different generic villains ). I'm not saying a game that comes out quickly is automatically bad. if the goal is to make a good game and they happen to do it in a short time that is great. but if the goal is to get it done as soon as possible than quality will suffer greatly.

 

[King of Hell]

@Lexy:
I think they've learned their lesson in DMC2, sure it sold more than DMC3, but critically it was a total failure. they don't wanna do that, the first & the fourth game were critically successful, & already appeal to casual & non-casual fans, DMC3 received mixed reviews but the special edition appeals to casuals & non-casuals. I think they've learned their lesson the hard way when they made DMC2.

@darkslayer:
when you look at the high budget studios like Microsoft's, they can pretty much make a game in 1 year, & they can still make it good, less development time doesn't mean the game is gonna be crappy, the most important aspect is talented developers, time is a factor I know, but if the developers are very good, they can meet the deadline easily. & if they add more developers to fine-tune the textures & the physics while the talented ones work on the rest of the game, that cuts down the development time, you don't hire a PhD to be the janitor in your company, the less talented developers work on the generic time consuming material. I'm talking about quality & quantity, not just quantity.

 

[darkslayer13]

@Lexy:
I think they've learned their lesson in DMC2, sure it sold more than DMC3, but critically it was a total failure. they don't wanna do that, the first & the fourth game were critically successful, & already appeal to casual & non-casual fans, DMC3 received mixed reviews but the special edition appeals to casuals & non-casuals. I think they've learned their lesson the hard way when they made DMC2.

@darkslayer:
when you look at the high budget studios like Microsoft's, they can pretty much make a game in 1 year, & they can still make it good, less development time doesn't mean the game is gonna be crappy, the most important aspect is talented developers, time is a factor I know, but if the developers are very good, they can meet the deadline easily. & if they add more developers to fine-tune the textures & the physics while the talented ones work on the rest of the game, that cuts down the development time, you don't hire a PhD to be the janitor in your company, the less talented developers work on the generic time consuming material. I'm talking about quality & quantity, not just quantity.

but one has to be prioritized above the other after all we don't live in an ideal world where you can get everything you want. if you have more to say on the subject it would be a good idea to PM me or make another thread because this is way off topic.

 

[moseslmpg]

@Lexy:
I think they've learned their lesson in DMC2, sure it sold more than DMC3, but critically it was a total failure. they don't wanna do that, the first & the fourth game were critically successful, & already appeal to casual & non-casual fans, DMC3 received mixed reviews but the special edition appeals to casuals & non-casuals. I think they've learned their lesson the hard way when they made DMC2.

Critical success means nothing to companies, whatsoever. They make games to make money. Hence why we have DMC4.

And the SE doesn't appeal to casuals at all. That makes no sense. Stop making things up.

 

[DreadnoughtDT]

Critical success means nothing to companies, whatsoever. They make games to make money. Hence why we have DMC4.

And the SE doesn't appeal to casuals at all. That makes no sense. Stop making things up.

The SE had toned down difficulty to appeal to casual gamers.

And y'know, that was really really blunt and kind of assholeish to say.

 

[King of Hell]

@darkslayer13: it doesn't matter, we take what we can get. we got DMC2 & yet we still bought it, I just hope we don't get something like it ever again.

@moseslmpg: do you really live in a world where everything you say is right & the others are wrong? stop being so self righteous, the special edition tuned down the difficulty & added an extra difficulty "Very Hard" to appeal to both casual & us, we love it harder while casuals like to breeze through. & yes critical success matters, DMC3 was more critically successful than DMC2, yet DMC2 sold half a million more copies than 3. so where's the DMC2 wannabe game? DMC4 used the style system if I remember, not the amulet. its true that the priority is the financial success, but without critical success, the next game would flop.

 

[V]

@Lexy:
I think they've learned their lesson in DMC2, sure it sold more than DMC3, but critically it was a total failure. they don't wanna do that, the first & the fourth game were critically successful, & already appeal to casual & non-casual fans, DMC3 received mixed reviews but the special edition appeals to casuals & non-casuals. I think they've learned their lesson the hard way when they made DMC2.

I'd hope they would, but I still don't expect consistent quality with the game being passed around various people to make as it has been over the years, and the ethic of games companies these days... and the idea of it being passed on to another studio for CAPCOM to increase output. I'm not sure they've really learned the lesson at all, because although they're somewhat interested in pleasing fans with the things they produce, some fans will always not be pleased, and you can almost taste CAPCOM's disinterest and flakiness on the subject these days.

Darkslayer, hiring a greater number of even skilled developers to a game project won't automatically mean the game that comes out the other end is of great quality. Trust me - I have close family who've been directly involved in the games industry since the early 80s until now and they assure me that it simply doesn't work this way: you can have all the talent in the world at your disposal, but if the directors/producers/writers want to take the game out on a limb, if they want something done in a new way rather than the way it was done before, or if they don't fully appreciate a series themselves, none of the talent of the artists or programmers or concepters can stop a game from turning out bad. It's up to the directors to create an overall enjoyable, coherent and smooth gaming experience, and apparently this doesn't always happen because they tend to have absolute say over the project - and if they get a bug up their ass about something, or become obssessed with some idea they desperately want put in the game regardless of its relevance, nobody can make them change it.

To remain on topic, the issue of Nero's origin - who would you trust more with resolving it in a manner that stays true to the DMC series' 'flavour'? CAPCOM, who've handled it for the duration of the series' life, or some foreign studio who've not handled it before? Perhaps if the hired studio is only handling visual and programming and not writing and character development, I'd be happy for that. Then again, that depends on who's writing and directing this time. I personally think that what's responsible for the seesawing of quality in DMC games over time is that it's not done by the same people each time - rather than them going out on curious limbs with Dante's character and new characters. It's like having a series of books about a character by a best-selling author, only each subsequent book after the first is not being fully written by the author who originally created that story and character, but by someone else. If that happened, I'd expect the quality to go up and down through the series, and the personality of the characters to be all over the place because the original vision isn't in these other authors' heads. If you ask me, giving it out to a foreign studio will probably lead to a sub-par game, unless someone decent and with experience handles the writing and the characters. Which I won't hold my breath for.

The only thing I'm confident in is that the gameplay experience will remain the same level of quality or get better. The rest of it - the stuff that made me like DMC in the first place... the characters, atmosphere, macabre-ness, seems in danger at the moment.

 

[Dragon King]

Funny that the only DMC game everyone hates wasn't made by the same group as the other DMCs.......

Despite the success of the original Devil May Cry, the sequel was not created by Hideki Kamiya or Capcom Production Studio 4. The first notice Kamiya's team was given about any sort of sequel occurred during localization of Devil May Cry in North America and Europe, a move which greatly surprised Kamiya. Since the game's release, Kamiya has expressed disappointment that he was not called on by his superiors at Capcom to direct Devil May Cry 2.[28]

Instead, the sequel was granted to Capcom Production Studio 1 and Hideaki Itsuno, the team responsible for Capcom VS SNK 2.[1][2] According to producer Tsuyoshi Tanaka, the thrust of the design was to make Devil May Cry 2 bigger than its predecessor; Tanaka estimated that the game's environments were approximately nine times as large as the first.[3] The emphasis on puzzles was also downplayed, with the camera system revamped to allow for better action scenes. Changes from the first game were influenced by surveys distributed by the development team, allowing them to patch any areas identified as weak by the people surveyed. The addition of Lucia as a playable character was a response to player complaints that Trish was not playable in the first Devil May Cry.

 

[King of Hell]

yeah, but DMC3 was made by the same team that made DMC2, obviously the same team learned their lesson well, I don't know about DMC4 though.

@Lexy: apparently, after doing a little research, DMC is the fourth best selling capcom franchise, each game individually seems to have sold more than Ninja Gaiden & God of War, I certainly thought that GoW & Ninja Gaiden being easier than DMC & more mainstream, they may have sold better.
anyway, I agree with you on some of your points. if we get the same producer, or someone who sees DMC as what it is, we'll get what we want.

anyway, I was really disappointed by how Dante was portrayed in DMC4, I thought we'd see Dante as he was in DMC1. he was cool, he had good one liners, but he showed emotions in that game (IGN said he was the coolest character in recent history of video games). I certainly love the sarcastic badass Dante, but he's missing the emotions he had in the original. we want Dante as sarcastic as he was in DMC4, its the same Dante (remember his first encounter with Griffon or Phantom?), but he needs another dimension to his character, a dimension that's been missing since the original...emotions. maybe that's the effect of changing studios, or they just don't seem to read on the fans' wishlist.

ok I drifted a little too far off-topic. what we certainly know is that they originally intended for Nero's origin to be implemented into the plot of DMC4, but they decided they need another game for that. an employee said that Nero is Vergil's son, the plot was meant to be in DMC4 but they decided not to use it, this doesn't mean that its final, they can change that anytime they want, it was their initial idea to have him as Vergil's son. perhaps they didn't reveal that to us to test our reaction on the hints we had on DMC4. I don't mind it either way, whether he was Vergil's son or not, I'm ok with it. I'm with the decision that's gonna make the plot in DMC5 a breakthrough, so whatever it is, I'm cool with it.

 

[V]

I know it's a best-selling series, which is one reason I can't imagine why they'd give it out to another studio - there are other ventures they could pass on that would be less 'risky', considering.

What I mean is, the 'stylish-action' genre is a bit of a niche genre, but one that DMC started. DMC is all dark and gothic and violent and grim. I don't want them to widen the niche in favour of making it more cutesy or appealing to younger or more squeamish fans... you know? I want it to stay "DMC" as we know it.