Nero Angelo

[Demi-fiend]

So, since both Kamiya and the director of Vergil's Downfall have decided to make this Vergil's official name, I've decided that this should be the thread's title as well.

Someone on this forum has already posted one of Kamiya's tweets where he said that it was always meant to be Nero Angelo -- unfortunately, I couldn't find it.

While this thread discusses both versions, it really isn't my intention to have this spiral out of control and mutate into a versus argument.

So, let's just leave that out of the equation. Talking about them both is fine, but saying that one is "better" than the other isn't really the best way to go about this, in my opinion.

 

[berto]

@Chancey289
I saw your reply (can't beat a Predator at stealth), and that doesn't really mean anything. He does the same at the end of the other two fights and comes back for the next one. So...
And you can always come up with something. Like the explanation I said before.

That's an old argument that was never really that solid, Chancey, and doesn't hold up. Even less in the world of Devil May Cry.

Sorry, but I agree with Chancey. He didn't explode in the first two fights, he obviously fled, teleported or was extracted and there was no explosion, and it wasn't exactly subtle, either. It's not flaky argument, it's the only thing we know about what happened to Vergil. There is zero evidence that he is alive and we have him exploding as proof that he isn't.

 

[Foxtrot94]

Sorry, but I agree with Chancey. He didn't explode in the first two fights

He didn't explode in the last fight either. He was ingulfed in a blue aura and vanished, like usual.

It's not flaky argument, it's the only thing we know about what happened to Vergil. There is zero evidence that he is alive and we have him exploding as proof that he isn't.

Yeah it ultimately is flaky argument. There's zero proof he's NOT alive either, and as I said, he didn't explode, so I'm sorry but that argument is as weak as it gets.

The only one who could have corroborated the death theory was Mundus, and he didn't. He said Vergil was defeated, not killed.

Therefore, all that considered, the possibility that he's alive is still there.

 

[berto]

He didn't explode in the last fight either. He was ingulfed in a blue aura and vanished, like usual.

No, not like usual. In the other two fights he gets raised up in the air and flies off into a single direction away from Dante. In the final fight he the aura goes into every direction and he doesn't fly off to nowhere and all that's left of him is the amulet and a big flash of light, not 'just like the other two' at all.
Start at 4:20

 

[LordOfDarkness]

- Actually, whether he 'explodes' or not is highly debatable. And we learn two things from the outcome of this battle -

1) "Vergil has been defeated". Doesn't state he died. Defeat and death in battle can mean two different things, they're not one and the same.

2) Nelo Angelo is no more. Since technically it was only Nelo being "defeated", and in my opinion Vergil being set free from his corruption.

Further points could be that Dante looks away when the 'explosion' happens. It seemed more to me that Vergil was painfully struggling with the corruption he'd been consumed with and was releasing that corruption from himself.

Nothing, considering we don't see the moment he dies, fully suggests that he does die.

 

[Foxtrot94]

@berto
First fight:

Second fight:

Third fight:

^ That's it. The next frames are just Dante covering his face with his arm.

In all of them he gets lifted into the air, and heck, if you think about it, it's actually in the second fight that he "explodes", even releasing lightning around him. In the third one, he doesn't. He gets surrounded by a bigger blue aura and just disappears in a white light like always. There's not even the sound of an explosion, just a windy-like sound and lightning sound, like the second fight, for example.

After the third one, he vanishes in a more dramatic way, yes, but still just vanishes. And we never get confirmation, not even a solid hint, that he died. His fate after the third battle is soooo open to interpretation and guessing, the possibility that he's still alive is there.
Like he said:

Nelo Angelo is no more. Since technically it was only Nelo being "defeated", and in my opinion Vergil being set free from his corruption.

Besides, there are characters in DMC that got a fate way more "yeah he's dead" but still managed to survive somehow. You got Arius shot in the head, Arkham fallen from uber high with blood all over the floor, Sanctus slashed and stabbed with Yamato (same with Arkham now that I think of it).

In all honesty, the way Nelo Angelo disappeared is way less serious than those guys's fates and does leave the possibility of him being alive.

 

[Gel]

Not that means anything in the current (un)canon, but I'm sure Kamiya had plans to bring him again into a game.
Sure, Kamiya's Vergil is totally different and Kamiya is no longer DMC director, but...

Anyway we can still say he is dead...from Dante's point of view.

 

[Foxtrot94]

Anyway we can still say he is dead...from Dante's point of view.

Oh I'm pretty sure he would welcome him with open arms after all, if he comes back.



If those arms would remain attached to his body, that's another story... TROLOLOLOL

 

[Veloran]

@berto
First fight:

Second fight:

Third fight:

^ That's it. The next frames are just Dante covering his face with his arm.

In all of them he gets lifted into the air, and heck, if you think about it, it's actually in the second fight that he "explodes", even releasing lightning around him. In the third one, he doesn't. He gets surrounded by a bigger blue aura and just disappears in a white light like always. There's not even the sound of an explosion, just a windy-like sound and lightning sound, like the second fight, for example.

After the third one, he vanishes in a more dramatic way, yes, but still just vanishes. And we never get confirmation, not even a solid hint, that he died. His fate after the third battle is soooo open to interpretation and guessing, the possibility that he's still alive is there.
Like he said:




Besides, there are characters in DMC that got a fate way more "yeah he's dead" but still managed to survive somehow. You got Arius shot in the head, Arkham fallen from uber high with blood all over the floor, Sanctus slashed and stabbed with Yamato (same with Arkham now that I think of it).

In all honesty, the way Nelo Angelo disappeared is way less serious than those guys's fates and does leave the possibility of him being alive.

And even in the case that he is dead, what does that actually mean?

Vergil is half-Demon, and in Devil May Cry powerful Demons don't really die so much as give up their souls and transmute into items of power. Vergil never ended up doing that, and if his Human side were to take precedence, couldn't he just reconstitute in Hell or something?

 

[Foxtrot94]

And even in the case that he is dead, what does that actually mean?

Vergil is half-Demon, and in Devil May Cry powerful Demons don't really die so much as give up their souls and transmute into items of power. Vergil never ended up doing that, and if his Human side were to take precedence, couldn't he just reconstitute in Hell or something?

Yeah as I said, you can find multiple ways to bring him back, as his fate in DMC1 is that open to interpretation.

 

[Foxtrot94]

According to the Dmc4 demon file, the Bianco Angelo was made from "fragments of the demon known as the Dark Angel". I always took this to mean the Order recovered Nelo Angelo's body and used it to create the other Angelos.

Yeah but that doesn't necessarily conflict with the theory I and LOD came up with. They can still do it so that Nelo Angelo is the one who's dead, Vergil's Mundus corrupted part. While his true self, the one with free will, is trapped in Hell or something.

Or, that phrase can be interpreted so that the Angelos were made from Nelo's armor, not his body, which would make a lot more sense. Let's not forget the Angelos are empty (physically) armors after all, filled with souls, not bodies. It may be that what was inside Nelo's armor wasn't the actual body of Vergil, but rather a projection of it, and his body was still in Hell, where he fought Mundus.

See, there are so many ways you can bring Vergil back in the continuity, Nelo's... "death" scene doesn't necessarily mean anything definitive. It all comes down to whether Capcom wants to have him back at some point or not. The context certainly doesn't lack possible explanations as to how.

 

[Lain]

Wasn't it said that it was fragments of armor that the Order used?

I believe it's meant to be both. It's physically the armour, with the soul of the Dark Angel bound to it, animating it to move.
Think of it like Al from Full Metal Alchemist. A soul in a suit of armour.

 

[Foxtrot94]

A soul in a suit of armour.

You got that right. But what's inside the Angelos's armors is not Nelo Angelo's souls (or pieces of it). It's the souls of the knights of the Order. Even demons and common people if I remember correctly. Their souls get sucked out of their bodies and embedded into the armors.

 

[Lain]

@Foxtrot94

I dunno man, I'll just quote the entire text and see if anyone can make sense of it.

Devil May Cry 4, Lesser Demons File — Bianco Angelo: "A man-made soldier made from the fragment of a demon known as the "dark angel". Filled with either a human or demonic soul, it carries out its master’s orders with mechanical precision."

 

[Foxtrot94]

@Foxtrot94

I dunno man, I'll just quote the entire text and see if anyone can make sense of it.

Yeah I know what the entry says. My point still stands. Viper's too.

 

[DarkSlayerZero]

1:10

 

[Foxtrot94]

1:10

"Nelo Angelo, the soul of his departed brother", yes. We all know who Nelo is. That's not the point.

That wouldn't debunk the explanation I and LOD constructed. They can still make it so that when Dante beat him, that soul got back to Hell as a result of being freed by Mundus's control, and got reattached to his body there (kinda like how Sanctus did by linking his soul to the Savior, since his body got vaporized).

Possibility still open.

 

[Chancey289]

"Nelo Angelo, the soul of his departed brother", yes. We all know who Nelo is. That's not the point.

That wouldn't debunk the explanation I and LOD constructed. They can still make it so that when Dante beat him, that soul got back to Hell as a result of being freed by Mundus's control, and got reattached to his body there (kinda like how Sanctus did by linking his soul to the Savior, since his body got vaporized).

Possibility still open.

Departed means dead.

 

[Foxtrot94]

Departed means dead.

I know. Yet his soul was still there inside that armor. So, once again, nothing stops them from coming up with the "soul back to Hell and reattached to his original body" thing.

 

[LordOfDarkness]

Actually, I thought departed had two meanings.

1) Referring to the deceased.

2) Leaving somewhere. As in, "The train departed from the station at 2pm".