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My thoughts after playing through DmC: Devil May Cry

That's an odd view to have. How the heck do other gameplay elements cancel out the combat system? :S
It's clear to me that you harbor great resentment toward the game and the guys who created it, so that makes your arguments biased. It gets harder for people to take you seriously if you talk about supposed 'facts' while being biased.
It makes sense. I can't enjoy DMC4 either. I can't care about a good combat system when everything around it falls apart... I tried playing it again, played for about an hour and I just couldn't continue it any longer. The story, level design, and enemies are all just way too boring to fight against.
DMC3 was the same way... kind of. The combat was good, but the levels, and enemies were annoying... not actually boring, but they were aggravating. The only time this game shines for me is with the super costumes, since I can easily fly past the enemies and levels that annoyed me the most. DMC3 is one of the very few games I actually wish was released as a PS2 classic on the PS Store.... I would play the crap out of it if they did that, the HD Collection ruined the game for me by disabling saving/loading.

I just can't see a game as being 'good' if only one element is done right.
 
Did you...completely miss where I noted that despite his basic motivation being typical in anime and manga, the fact they DID explain the source of the motivation actually gave Vergil a major point of individuality; that it's because of his mother's death?

No, I didn't miss that. I just chose to respond to certain points of your comment. Is that alright? I can't say I find a character's motivation to do certain things the only important feature of the character, as some people do. It's also about a character's personality, the way he moves, acts, looks and so on.
 
It makes sense. I can't enjoy DMC4 either. I can't care about a good combat system when everything around it falls apart... I tried playing it again, played for about an hour and I just couldn't continue it any longer. The story, level design, and enemies are all just way too boring to fight against.
DMC3 was the same way... kind of. The combat was good, but the levels, and enemies were annoying... not actually boring, but they were aggravating. The only time this game shines for me is with the super costumes, since I can easily fly past the enemies and levels that annoyed me the most. DMC3 is one of the very few games I actually wish was released as a PS2 classic on the PS Store.... I would play the crap out of it if they did that, the HD Collection ruined the game for me by disabling saving/loading.

I just can't see a game as being 'good' if only one element is done right.

Alright, but that's an opinion, of course. I think you would be letting your disappointment seep into parts of the game that don't deserve that disappointment. It's not like nobody can enjoy DMC4's gameplay because the story and other things weren't done so well. I personally enjoyed DMC4's gameplay despite its arguably lackluster plot, backtracking and all that. It just annoys some people more than others, and that's okay. I don't think he put it the same way as you did, though.

Saying something is annoying is not necessarily the absolute truth, either. It's like nails on a chalkboard. I know a lot of people who can't stand it, but I'm not bothered by it at all. I do have a problem with broken pencils being slowly scratched along surfaces, though. It's like that sound vibrates through my entire body, and it's really annoying to me.
I can't really find fault with DMC3's level design. It's not boring to everyone. Like with COD MW3; I hated the fact that a lot of the maps were so cluttered and allowed for so many ways to get behind, next to and above enemies and stuff. It got chaotic. However, other people might like chaos in their shooters.

Games are still supposed to be at least a bit challenging in some way (to me). So just cheating your way through enemies and levels doesn't do much for me, aside from doing my best to create the best combos possible.

So the point is, it's all subjective. Not everything, though. I can still review games based on their merits and flaws, but saying something is bad because you don't like it is a useless statement, as it's based on faulty logic.
 
No, I did not miss that. I just chose to respond to certain points of your comment. Is that alright?

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I can't say I find a character's motivation to do certain things the only important thing about the character, as some people implied. It's also about a character's personality, the way he moves, acts, looks and so on.

Which again, is typically seen a lot in Japanese media in regards to Vergil, it is the nuances like motivations and quirks that separate him from others of his archtype. The fact that he's 95% just like Sesshoumaru from InuYasha not withstanding...
 
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Which again, is typically seen a lot in Japanese media in regards to Vergil, it is the nuances like motivations and quirks that separate him from others of his archtype. The fact that he's 95% just like Sesshoumaru from InuYasha not withstanding...

What's your problem, exactly? I didn't say I disagreed with his points. I just chose to respond to certain things he said rather than the whole comment, as just saying ''I agree'' doesn't add anything to the thread. Some miscommunication there, I'm afraid.

I honestly don't care if he's similar to a character most people in the US and European countries have never heard of (due to it being from an anime series). Besides, it's like you said, he isn't exactly the same as other characters. I seriously doubt it's ''95 percent'', as that sounds like an emotional response, like people saying ''I'll give it 110 percent''.
I hope you're not going to try to counter my argument by trying to prove Dante is exactly the same as Inuyasha or something like that. I'm sure it's inspired by it, but nobody cares. Try being completely original. You will fail. As will I and everybody else.
 
It makes sense. I can't enjoy DMC4 either. I can't care about a good combat system when everything around it falls apart... I tried playing it again, played for about an hour and I just couldn't continue it any longer. The story, level design, and enemies are all just way too boring to fight against.

I found the enemies in DMC4 to be relatively fun to fight against, mainly Frosts, Basilisks and Angelos. Especially as Dante. So just because you think it is boring, that doesn't automatically make it so. The level design is arguably poor in some areas like one particular area in Mission 17 where you fight Assaults, Mephistos and Fausts in a small area that has a bad camera angle. But for the most part, I thought they were good mainly because they were designed so you couldn't abuse Jump Cancelling to skip huge portions of missions like you can do in DmC.
 
I found the enemies in DMC4 to be relatively fun to fight against, mainly Frosts, Basilisks and Angelos. Especially as Dante. So just because you think it is boring, that doesn't automatically make it so. The level design is arguably poor in some areas like one particular area in Mission 17 where you fight Assaults, Mephistos and Fausts in a small area that has a bad camera angle. But for the most part, I thought they were good mainly because they were designed so you couldn't abuse Jump Cancelling to skip huge portions of missions like you can do in DmC.
Well of course. Nothing I say will automatically make anything true... for the most part, everything I say will purely be an opinion with no fact since I'm talking about DMC.
But, on the flip side... just because a player may love the combat in DMC4, it doesn't mean its an amazing game.
 
Well of course. Nothing I say will automatically make anything true... for the most part, everything I say will purely be an opinion with no fact since I'm talking about DMC.
But, on the flip side... just because a player may love the combat in DMC4, it doesn't mean its an amazing game.

I never said DMC4 was amazing. I just find DMC4 more appealing because combat plays a huge factor in both DmC and DMC4. I feel restricted in DmC since I can't use the weapons I'd like to use at any time I want.
 
I never said DMC4 was amazing. I just find DMC4 more appealing because combat plays a huge factor in both DmC and DMC4. I feel restricted in DmC since I can't use the weapons I'd like to use at any time I want.
I never said you did. I was just pointing out that one one great (or amazing) element in a game won't make the game itself amazing.

Though, some players will disagree... but I tend to believe that gameplay alone won't make a game amazing. Other factors tend to influence the overall experience.
 
I never said you did. I was just pointing out that one one great (or amazing) element in a game won't make the game itself amazing.

Though, some players will disagree... but I tend to believe that gameplay alone won't make a game amazing. Other factors tend to influence the overall experience.

While I disagree, I do see where you're coming from. Killer7 for instance had rather bleh gameplay, but the whole experience of that game is so utterly visceral you'll never forget it.
 
I do believe that in a Hack and Slash the story may be a great addition (like in DMC3), but the gameplay still is the whole point of the game, since the story can only get you so far as the first playthrough.

After all is a game. Gameplay is (or should be) at least the first thing to be considered if you're gonna decide if a game is great or not.
 
I do believe that in a Hack and Slash the story may be a great addition (like in DMC3), but the gameplay still is the whole point of the game, since the story can only get you so far as the first playthrough.

After all is a game. Gameplay is (or should be) at least the first thing to be considered if you're gonna decide if a game is great or not.
Yeah, gameplay should always be a top priority... but before I kind of explain my opinion, I should describe what I think of when I say 'gameplay'. Generally, I just mean the core mechanics of the game. Like, in a Spyro game... I would describe gameplay as the simple act of Spyro collecting gems, breathing fire on enemies... but there's more to the game, such as figuring out little puzzles in order to obtain gems, and little challenges to collect eggs.
In truth, I think that gameplay is tied into a lot of elements. From the sounds used, the levels, the enemies, and pretty much everything... almost. Story is tied into the gameplay by having the little bits of dialog while playing, or when you have interactive cutscenes (press B to jump, i hate these kinds of things)... sound is really important to bring satisfaction when a player collides or hits a wall or object. The levels are built around the gameplay to best compliment it, and many times they are one of the same when platforming comes into play. The enemies are the same in this sense, as some enemies change the way a player will use Dante... but when I say 'gameplay', I think about Dante swinging around his sword with the addition of guns and the ability to tie together moves (DMC1). In DMC3, I see the gameplay (I guess combat would be a better word since it's a Hack'N'Slash game) as a step forwards as it added the additional ability to quickly change weapons similarly to DMC2's gun switching, and an improvement in tying together moves.

So, what I'm trying to say is... for me at least, DMC4 has improved combat due to the added and polished elements... but since the combat is also affected by all the other elements, the gameplay overall feels dumbed down... and ultimately it gets boring quick.

But, there are also games that I dislike because they have too many elements that affect the gameplay. Take Call of Duty for example, I really enjoyed Black Ops 1. The killstreaks were more or less fair, usually they would only get 1-2 kills tops (The mortar team was my idea of a perfect killstreak). However, with Black Ops 2 the core gameplay is the same... but killstreaks are more powerful, which I found to distract from the gun-on-gun gameplay, and this made the game annoying for me.

Or, in some games, the elements connected to gameplay can actually make bad gameplay fun (The Walking Dead would be an example of this, the gameplay is just clicking on stuff to progress and change the story).

So, my point here is that gameplay should be a priority, but the elements that are connected to it can make or break the whole game. Keep in mind, this is just my opinion... I'm not sure why I have to state this in every post I make since it's usually a given, but I guess I`ll have to get into the habit of shoving it in anyway.
 
I never said you did. I was just pointing out that one one great (or amazing) element in a game won't make the game itself amazing.

Though, some players will disagree... but I tend to believe that gameplay alone won't make a game amazing. Other factors tend to influence the overall experience.
I'm kinda the opposite for that. Gameplay was the only point Bayonetta had going for it. The visuals were nice and the story was.....no idea. But gameplay was all that it had. Same with Super Mario. Save the Princess to win. Or FFXIII which had a story I can't even begin to explain but the gameplay alone was what kept it going strong. It's what makes gaming different to films or books. Because you can be lacking in multiple areas bu the gameplay alone can save it.
 
I'm kinda the opposite for that. Gameplay was the only point Bayonetta had going for it. The visuals were nice and the story was.....no idea. But gameplay was all that it had. Same with Super Mario. Save the Princess to win. Or FFXIII which had a story I can't even begin to explain but the gameplay alone was what kept it going strong. It's what makes gaming different to films or books. Because you can be lacking in multiple areas bu the gameplay alone can save it.
True, but Super Mario didn't really have anything go against it.

I guess, the way I see gameplay is that it's what decides the initial experience that a player has... and everything else determines their enjoyment afterwards.
 
True, but Super Mario didn't really have anything go against it.

I guess, the way I see gameplay is that it's what decides the initial experience that a player has... and everything else determines their enjoyment afterwards.
That's why, whenever I look at games/film/comics/books etc, I often try to look at them as a self contained work of media. If people did that, DmC wouldn't nearly have the insanely unnecessary hard criticism that is received. Because too many look at the game compared to the original series and see what it has going for it.
The whole point of gaming, is to take Gameplay on first. It's why it's gaming. It's a form of entertainment that films can't use (human interaction). Otherwise games like Guitar Hero could also be classed as bad, but it's the gameplay that gets you. It doesn't need a story. But there are those that make those stories for games which are extremely good such as: Heavy Rain and Mass Effect which even films wouldn't be able to accomplish without creating multiple films (The Hobbit, Harry Potter). (Since Mass Effect is told over 3 games).
 
Oh by the way, I found some neat stuff in terms of charging shots.

Turns out, you can charge a shot with E&I or the Shotgun and switch to another gun while you still have the charge for E&I or the Shotgun. Combine with the automatic gun charge glitch, it's really helpful.

I was also thinking about creating a thread specifically about advanced techniques also. What do you guys think?
 
True, but Super Mario didn't really have anything go against it.

I guess, the way I see gameplay is that it's what decides the initial experience that a player has... and everything else determines their enjoyment afterwards.
But wouldn't you agree if I say Mario has become technically a "cultural zombie." He doesn't dish out quality games as often as he used to but Mario is a a character Nintendo can slap on anything and it will sell only because its Mario. The last legit good game from Mario is like Galaxy but how can you top Galaxy without just becoming Galaxy 2 which was virtually the same game. Same with New Super Mario Bros. When it first shows up its a nice throwback to the classic Mario and is appreciated but they release sequels who still don't do anything drastically different and you have no real reason to go out and buy it. People say Sonic is dead which is pretty much true since he hasn't had a good game in forever but, Mario is slowly but surely becoming his roommate in the coffin. Thing is Mario still can walk out of the house being the one of the most popular kids on the playground and be accepted regardless instead of being laughed out the room.
 
But wouldn't you agree if I say Mario has become technically a "cultural zombie." He doesn't dish out quality games as often as he used to but Mario is a a character Nintendo can slap on anything and it will sell only because its Mario. The last legit good game from Mario is like Galaxy but how can you top Galaxy without just becoming Galaxy 2 which was virtually the same game. Same with New Super Mario Bros. When it first shows up its a nice throwback to the classic Mario and is appreciated but they release sequels who still don't do anything drastically different and you have no real reason to go out and buy it. People say Sonic is dead which is pretty much true since he hasn't had a good game in forever but, Mario is slowly but surely becoming his roommate in the coffin. Thing is Mario still can walk out of the house being the one of the most popular kids on the playground and be accepted regardless instead of being laughed out the room.
Yeah, I would agree with that. I haven't played any mario game in forever, I tried playing some DS mario game and lost interest after the first world.
 
What's your problem, exactly? I didn't say I disagreed with his points. I just chose to respond to certain things he said rather than the whole comment, as just saying ''I agree'' doesn't add anything to the thread. Some miscommunication there, I'm afraid.

I honestly don't care if he's similar to a character most people in the US and European countries have never heard of (due to it being from an anime series). Besides, it's like you said, he isn't exactly the same as other characters. I seriously doubt it's ''95 percent'', as that sounds like an emotional response, like people saying ''I'll give it 110 percent''.
I hope you're not going to try to counter my argument by trying to prove Dante is exactly the same as Inuyasha or something like that. I'm sure it's inspired by it, but nobody cares. Try being completely original. You will fail. As will I and everybody else.

>most people in the US and Europe have never heard of
>Inuyasha is one of the most well-recognized figures in late 90s-early 2000s anime alongside FMA, Hellsing, Naruto,
>honestly don't care

check yourself before you wreck yourself buddy ol' pal

>Completely original and you will fail
> go to the 80s and Nintendo.
>Because Zelda and Metroid and Mario are so much like any other series and following a Japanese stereotype.
>creativity.mov
 
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