Microtransactions in DMCV

[TWOxACROSS]

Not to mention the Jim Sterling video which was just a nagging compilation of insults and mochery.

Jim's video was especially egregious because he was using the same argument that he had used for games like Shadow of War, and while he was right in that instance, the concept and execution are entirely different here, so his entire premise of "the developer is saying their game is **** because they want you to spend money to skip it" is faulty.

The thing is: DMC games aren't for casuals.

Welcome to the reason the franchise is only getting its fifth (classic) installment in nearly two decades - unreasonably priding the game on being only for the most hardcore. The fanbase forces it into a niche corner and gatekeeps against the very concept of welcoming a newer, wider audience. That DMC isn't for casuals is retarded, in the purest sense of the word: as in it's actively hindering the franchise's ability to grow and develop. Do people want this series to be popular enough to have a healthy franchise, or do people want to stroke themselves for being good at a supposedly hard video game. You can't have both.

 

[berto]

There's a problem when Itsuno says gamers have the "choice, the option". No, that's not a choice. You don't have to pay for a choice if you already paid the game you already got.

That is a flawed argument because implying that there is no choice means that you have to pay in order to play, progress, or win. That if you want to keep playing you have put in more money than you've already have. As the guy in article above said, moves cost in the range of 7500 orbs for low tier and up to 35000 for high tier and he earned a damn near whooping 60000 in his playthrough with, what was it, a B rank? Where is blockage that forces you to pay? Even the one 3000000 move isn't a combat one and I've spent more in Bayonetta for less. That move is obviously there for post game unlockables.

If things change. If the game becomes unreasonably expensive then I'll change my tune, but as it stands, this game is giving money away too easily for this to be a controversy.

 

[gmc]

its not pay to win so i dont see the big issue here just earn the orbs yourself, EA or Activision would've done way worse, not saying capcoms perfect just stating facts

 

[DragonMaster2010]

Okay but...just DON'T buy the microtransactions...simple.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

Okay but...just DON'T buy the microtransactions...simple.

Like it's that simple! REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE~

 

[berto]

Okay but...just DON'T buy the microtransactions...simple.

Sorry I keep bringing up the Sterling thing but I think he perfectly personifies the attitude people have on this.

According to him that's not an option. The fact that it's there forces you to use it because the don't put things on games they don't sell and we don't have an option in the matter, therefore not buying is not in the cards. I'd like to quote him but that means I'd have to watch the video again and I don't want to give him the views.

 

[Dominus]

Sorry I keep bringing up the Sterling thing but I think he perfectly personifies the attitude people have on this.

According to him that's not an option. The fact that it's there forces you to use it because the don't put things on games they don't sell and we don't have an option in the matter, therefore not buying is not in the cards. I'd like to quote him but that means I'd have to watch the video again and I don't want to give him the views.

I think the problem too is at most mtx kind have no effect, or at worst have a completely negative effect on a game. I don't think anyone is happy when they have to use microtransactions out of frustration.

What sucks in this case is that Jim's argument he didn't do a lot of research and was just blasting the original PR statement while bringing up the classic examples of 2K games and Shadow of Mordor (while bringing up Spiderman as the good case). And the funny thing is that DMCV is not the same type of grind as in ARPGS because the combat isn't ****, so it's kind of unfair painting that the game won't be fun with casuals. Feels disingenuous.

I think it really sucks just to be in this position, because this mtx probably will have like no effect on gameplay, but the PR effect is people not wanting to buy the game lol....

 

[DragonMaster2010]

Sorry I keep bringing up the Sterling thing but I think he perfectly personifies the attitude people have on this.

According to him that's not an option. The fact that it's there forces you to use it because the don't put things on games they don't sell and we don't have an option in the matter, therefore not buying is not in the cards. I'd like to quote him but that means I'd have to watch the video again and I don't want to give him the views.

But that makes no sense at all. If people don't like the microtransactions then don't buy them. Enjoy the game as is, and ignore the nonsense Capcom's trying to sell. They're not really needed in order to play. You don't need those extra red orbs if you prefer to grind for your reward, which is what I'll be doing.

like @Dominus mentioned, it won't bother those who know Devil May Cry and how to grind for red orbs, but new players might be hesitant to purchase the game if there's talks of needing to buy microtransactions to play it or the existence of microtransactions in general.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

But that makes no sense at all. If people don't like the microtransactions then don't buy them. Enjoy the game as is, and ignore the nonsense Capcom's trying to sell. They're not really needed in order to play. You don't need those extra red orbs if you prefer to grind for your reward, which is what I'll be doing.

Their concern is that by virtue of its inclusion, it inherently changes the nature of the game. That by having an option to buy orbs with real money, they obviously would really love it if you did, and gave them more money. Along those lines then, Capcom would alter the necessary elements of the game to make buying red orbs with real money the best course of action. Put plainly, if the option exists, they'll make red orb acquisition lower and/or skill prices hire, making the option to buy red orbs less of an option and more like a necessity.

It's the mental gymnastics needed to scare up a boogeyman, that by catering to this idea, the normal gameplay experience is eroded. However, we know this is not the case, as has been confirmed.

 

[Exejpgwmv]

Jim Sterling made a video about this:

 

[TWOxACROSS]

Jim Sterling made a video about this:

Yeah, that's the one we've been criticizing. It's wrong.

 

[DragonMaster2010]

Their concern is that by virtue of its inclusion, it inherently changes the nature of the game. That by having an option to buy orbs with real money, they obviously would really love it if you did, and gave them more money. Along those lines then, Capcom would alter the necessary elements of the game to make buying red orbs with real money the best course of action. Put plainly, if the option exists, they'll make red orb acquisition lower and/or skill prices hire, making the option to buy red orbs less of an option and more like a necessity.

It's the mental gymnastics needed to scare up a boogeyman, that by catering to this idea, the normal gameplay experience is eroded. However, we know this is not the case, as has been confirmed.

I see it more as an "easy mode" option. If you want more red orbs you could buy more or you could grind hard for them.

 

[Innsmouth]

It's the mental gymnastics needed to scare up a boogeyman, that by catering to this idea, the normal gameplay experience is eroded. However, we know this is not the case, as has been confirmed.

Actually it wasn'T confirmed and can't be confirmed until we get final product. Just like With Shadow of War, we don't know, how they tweaked gameplay and as such, it's completely possible that they tweaked it in the way it makes getting skill much harder, either reducing amount of orbs and / or increasing prices to the point, where you have to grind hard to get final move set.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

I see it more as an "easy mode" option. If you want more red orbs you could buy more or you could grind hard for them.

It is, but the concern is that the game will be altered in such a way that, say, prices will be so high that saving up the requisite orbs will be hard, incentivizing just buying them to get on with it. The idea that they'd ruin the gameplay experience in order to wring money out of players.

Actually it wasn'T confirmed and can't be confirmed until we get final product. Just like With Shadow of War, we don't know, how they tweaked gameplay and as such, it's completely possible that they tweaked it in the way it makes getting skill much harder, either reducing amount of orbs and / or increasing prices to the point, where you have to grind hard to get final move set.

Matt Walker literally confirmed that there would be no changes to the core design, neither orb drop rates nor prices. He said it'd be just like in DMC4se. If he was lying about that, he'd get vilified faster than you can say "Tameem Antoniades."

 

[Innsmouth]

Matt Walker literally confirmed that there would be no changes to the core design, neither orb drop rates nor prices. He said it'd be just like in DMC4se. If he was lying about that, he'd get vilified faster than you can say "Tameem Antoniades."

Same happened with Shadow of War, where they reasured you can earn all with ingame money and turned it into giant grind afterwards. Sorry, but any "confirmation" from company representatition is based on PR talk, you won't get hear anyone, no EA or Activision to say, yes we make it hard to get, so give us your money. Until we see actual amount of orbs earned in final build and prices in shop, we can't say for sure if anything was chnaged.

 

[Exejpgwmv]

So either someone leaks upgrade requirements or we just need to wait for the game to come out.

I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt; but I won't be pre ordering just in case.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

Same happened with Shadow of War, where they reasured you can earn all with ingame money and turned it into giant grind afterwards. Sorry, but any "confirmation" from company representatition is based on PR talk, you won't get hear anyone, no EA or Activision to say, yes we make it hard to get, so give us your money. Until we see actual amount of orbs earned in final build and prices in shop, we can't say for sure if anything was chnaged.

Hokay, then.

So either someone leaks upgrade requirements or we just need to wait for the game to come out.

I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt; but I won't be pre ordering just in case.

There's some article floating around, might even be in this thread, where they looked at the costs of stuff at the shop and compared it to how many red orbs you get. The conclusion was that you get a metric ****-ton of orbs if you find all the deposits, and especially if you kill a boss.

 

[Foxtrot94]

Hokay, then.

Actually he has a good point. The article calculate orb drops in the demo, but we can't be 100% sure that the demo is indicative of the final build. For all we know, they might have indeed slowed down the drop date in the final product. Don't tell me you don't believe Capcom is capable of doing it, when they've done worse in the past.

Now, I do trust Matt. So far he's been truthful and transparent, even when saying the truth is not what the fans wanted to hear, like when he clarified that there's no free DB switching for Nero. So personally, I believe the guy. But at the same time I can see why some people are not so trusting.

 

[Dark Drakan]

To be honest I agree with AngryJoe and Jim, microtransactions DO NOT belong in full priced games period and no good comes from them. The mere mention of lootboxes or microtransactions these days will have an effect on sales too as people know the corporate motivations behind the companies that use them. Turning players into payers as EA so nicely put it and anyone who disapproves of EA's business practices surely cant be into microtransactions. Its the insidious nature of them that we should all be against whether they massively impact games on an individual basis shouldnt matter. The fact they are there at all is a corporate shadow looming and probing that I dont want in my games. They are there to get more money from you and whether you buy them or not they will affect your game should the developer tweak the in game economy to do so.

Its FAR too easy for developers to manipulate those drop rates under the hood and too many games use the 'freemium' mobile format that nudge people into buying them. When a developer can simply adjust that rate and you have to do the same task you were doing before but for much longer as item drop is more rare its going to get annoying. Its easy to say dont buy them but when the choice you have in most games with microtransactions is a repetitive grind for 'X' amount of hours to amass enough in game currency to unlock something or pay an extra £5 when you simply dont have that sort of time isnt really a choice. It not even the usual grind games had either, its purposefully dragged out and made harder to acquire that currency to push you into frustration & giving up and buying them. They want you to not play the game and to pay to skip parts and unlock the good stuff that isnt a good model to have.

When a games economy is built around this it can go all kinds of wrong and there are loads of examples of this happening and drop rates being so low the grind is unbearable and it effects the overall game. As Joe said, if the drop rates are decent in the final product then fair enough in this case they MAY be overlooked. I want to play a game from start to finish and be able to unlock skills playing naturally rather than be forced to perform countless hours of busy work grinding to amass enough as drop rates for items we need have been lowered as thats not fun.

However this is the normally just the tip of the iceberg and developers testing the waters and getting gamers used to this sort of thing before they turn the dial and lower those drop rates in future updates/new games and release new more expensive cool skills after people have stopped kicking up a fuss. They arent the same as awful paid for lootboxes which have no place in gaming at all but they are along the same lines you just know what you are getting for your money instead. However they still do have an element of chance involved in them with regards to percentage chance to a drop rate. Its like having a knife at your back but being promised that they wont use it, then why is it there in the first place? At any point they could choose to stick that knife in at their own discretion and take advantage of you when you least expect it.

Dont for a second fall for this 'its to give players a choice' line, they have just seen the millions companies like Rockstar have made from them and want a piece of that from their player base too. Rockstar didnt have to make single player DLC for GTA V as they were making so much money on the online portion they just didnt need it. If they truly wanted to give you a 'choice' then they should bring back old school cheat codes. Then those that want to unlock everything with minimal effort/grind can do so and dont have to pay extra for it.

Its the suits/higher ups trying to squeeze ANY additional cash they can out of us gamers and no-one should buy ANY microtransactions or loot boxes in anything to show them this isnt ok & we dont want this in full priced games. If you have them in your games then lower the retail price or make it free, if you are using the free to play business model in a full priced game you are just trying to rinse your players for cash. Essentially being frustrated into paying to advance further in a game rather than endlessly grind is simply bad, unbalanced game design.

EDIT* After reading through @Foxtrot94 said much of what I was thinking on first page.

As long as the game's orb economy isn't balanced around this, making orb acquiring intentionally slow in order to pretty much force you to buy them, I don't really care about microtransactions being there. They're only ever a problem when their presence leads to altering the games' progression system to a grind.

Matt Walker has said this is not the case here. However, it's still a greed based decision cause if the game is not balanced towards the grindy route, that only means microtransactions are just there to take advantage of the impatient people who want as many moves (or items) as possible as fast as possible. Which, if it truly was purely a matter of "player choice", as Itsuno put it, then they would simply sneak in a cheat code or something to unlock them all instantly.

 

[Demi-fiend]

However this is the normally just the tip of the iceberg and developers testing the waters and getting gamers used to this sort of thing before they turn the dial and lower those drop rates in future updates/new games and release new more expensive cool skills after people have stopped kicking up a fuss.

This is why we need to continue to kick up a fuss.

I hate both AJ and JQ with all my might, but I have to agree with them both VEHEMENTLY on this issue.

If we stop now, there's no telling how much we'll end up paying for games in the future. It always starts small before devolving into a monstrosity only an elite few can control (like the style system).

Alright, fine. I'll stop ragging on the control scheme.