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Kamiya wants to rock with Capcom

berto said:
Apparently not. I could show anyone else gameplay videos of REHD and DMC1 and they'd see it right away but here...
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I find it really weird, because main room in Castle more like police station in RE2 and considering that you spend 90% of time in mansion in RE, while in DMC you also have places outside of it and much more open spaces in general, i think it's kinda weird. Besides Remake was made after DMC, so even if it features some similarities it would have been other way around.
berto said:
Wait, what? first off, Mikami was involved in Onimusha, Chaos Legion did not follow the formula I mentioned, and I had to look up Rygar but that didn't either, though I see some similarities to DMC1, but not the outlined set up.
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He was only adviser in Onimusha meaning he wasn't in core team. Also Rygar features secluded island filled with monsters as well.
berto said:
Those game did not follow the formula at all. Yeah, have similarities but what was the layout? Go to Secluded place, lot's of back tracking, open new areas that you couldn't enter before, Fight final boss, flee via the route you came in with a clock counting down, get stopped from making escape by final boss, fight final boss again, receive new weapon/power up to finish boss off permanently, escape explosion on vehicle. I did not see any of that on Chaos Legion and Rygar only had him flee the explosion, none of the rest was there to be seen. I see the resemblances but that layout is not.
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Umm Rygar? traveling secluded island filled with mythological beasts, doing special missions and having fixed camera angles? That doesn't sound same as DMC? I played game and it much more like DMC.
berto said:
I think you're looking at a list of traits rather than how they are written. You are saying that because there are no other Dantes they don't share anything in common. It's in the way they talk, in the way they act, in the dialogue. Just because Bayonetta says 'Let's Rock, Baby' doesn't mean she's like Dante because she's nothing like Dante. She may be like Dante in DMC4 but neither of them is like Dante of DMC1, and he certainly doesn't resemble the cast of Basara, that's 4's Dante, again. Dante belong with those Capcom characters of the turn of the century, the only difference between them and Dante is that Dante was made to be cool.
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Wait you try to say Dante is like Chris? or like Jill? or like Regina? Because as somebody who played most of RE game and all DMC games, they don't have anything in common. Dante was always over the top character and mikami's character rarely act over the top. With lot of pathos, yes, but none of this 80s style action hero like.

berto said:
My logic is based on what I've seen in the works of the people we are discussing. I look at the other games they've worked on, see what of those games is similar to DMC and that's how I assign what to who, based on their other works. If I see something in DMC I see in other Kamiya games but not in other Kobayashi games I assume that's his doing as opposed to Kobayashi. Simple as that. If I see a stinger move in Dragon's Dogma I assume that's Itsuno's doing.
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You forgetting, that at the time, Kamiya, Sugemura, Mikami worked as one team. But both Mikami and Kamiya directed their projects, and i give them credit when they wrote their concepts. For example both God Hand and Vanquish doesn't look or play like Mikami's works. Instead they much more like Inaba's projects, but they were directed and created by Mikami, so Mikami deserves credit for them.

berto said:
CoD might not improve but it offers the experience people look for in that game franchise. I didn't like Un3, either, but even Golden Abyss offered a good Uncharted experience and it wasn't even made by the same people. Bayonetta 2 is a great example of sequels offering more of the same. There are very few titles like DMC where no sequel feels like the original. New face every game, new voice actor almost every time, no re occurring elements, and a change of tone on almost every iteration. DMC3 & 4 have the most in common with each other and even they are dramatically different from one another.
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Fallout 2 and 3. Darkness 1 and 2. Darksiders 1 and 2. Castlevania. MGS 1 and 3. Most of franchises playing and feeling different with new games. As far as i can remember its pretty normal practice.


berto said:
Wait, what? first off, Mikami was involved in Onimusha, Chaos Legion did not follow the formula I mentioned, and I had to look up Rygar but that didn't either, though I see some similarities to DMC1, but not the outlined set up.
Click to expand...
He was only adviser in Onimusha meaning he wasn't in core team. Also Rygar features secluded island filled with monsters as well.
berto said:
Those game did not follow the formula at all. Yeah, have similarities but what was the layout? Go to Secluded place, lot's of back tracking, open new areas that you couldn't enter before, Fight final boss, flee via the route you came in with a clock counting down, get stopped from making escape by final boss, fight final boss again, receive new weapon/power up to finish boss off permanently, escape explosion on vehicle. I did not see any of that on Chaos Legion and Rygar only had him flee the explosion, none of the rest was there to be seen. I see the resemblances but that layout is not.
Click to expand...
Umm Rygar? traveling secluded island filled with mythological beasts, doing special missions and having fixed camera angles? That doesn't sound same as DMC? I played game and it much more like DMC.
berto said:
I think you're looking at a list of traits rather than how they are written. You are saying that because there are no other Dantes they don't share anything in common. It's in the way they talk, in the way they act, in the dialogue. Just because Bayonetta says 'Let's Rock, Baby' doesn't mean she's like Dante because she's nothing like Dante. She may be like Dante in DMC4 but neither of them is like Dante of DMC1, and he certainly doesn't resemble the cast of Basara, that's 4's Dante, again. Dante belong with those Capcom characters of the turn of the century, the only difference between them and Dante is that Dante was made to be cool.
Click to expand...
Wait you try to say Dante is like Chris? or like Jill? or like Regina? Because as somebody who played most of RE game and all DMC games, they don't have anything in common. Dante was always over the top character and mikami's character rarely act over the top. With lot of pathos, yes, but none of this 80s style action hero like.

berto said:
My logic is based on what I've seen in the works of the people we are discussing. I look at the other games they've worked on, see what of those games is similar to DMC and that's how I assign what to who, based on their other works. If I see something in DMC I see in other Kamiya games but not in other Kobayashi games I assume that's his doing as opposed to Kobayashi. Simple as that. If I see a stinger move in Dragon's Dogma I assume that's Itsuno's doing.
Click to expand...
You forgetting, that at the time, Kamiya, Sugemura, Mikami worked as one team. It's hard to tell who influenced whom and in what amount. But both Mikami and Kamiya directed their projects, and i give them credit when they wrote their concepts. For example both God Hand and Vanquish doesn't look or play like Mikami's works. Instead they much more like Inaba's projects, but they were directed and created by Mikami, so Mikami deserves credit for them.

berto said:
Yeah, he stepped down before the redesign and then three months before release Mikami scrapped the build. That whole part about him supervising and overseeing once a month was regarding the original build, I'll just call it 1.5. After that :
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Yes but after RE1,5 fiasco, Sugemura was taken on board to clear them, since executives weren't pleased with Mikami's decisions.
 
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Innsmouth said:
I find it really weird, because main room...
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Dude, I think we should call it quits. We're taking up the entire page. Let's just end it there.

Here's my position on the whole Kamiya making another DMC with Capcom. Kamiya knows action. I don't know if he will be able to recreate the experience that was DMC1 but with a more updated combat system. It won't be the horror-action the first was, it won't be as sincere, I suppose would be the word, as DMC1 since it will probably be closer to what Bayonetta and DMC4 are, which are all silly and somewhat... cartoonish, and often rather... I don't want to say convoluted... unclear? But the action would just be outstanding. I'm sure after all these years the staff of P* who worked on DMC1 have compiled a whole lot of ideas for that sequel they'd make out of DMC.
 
berto said:
Dude, I think we should call it quits. We're taking up the entire page. Let's just end it there.

Here's my position on the whole Kamiya making another DMC with Capcom. Kamiya knows action. I don't know if he will be able to recreate the experience that was DMC1 but with a more updated combat system. It won't be the horror-action the first was, it won't be as sincere, I suppose would be the word, as DMC1 since it will probably be closer to what Bayonetta and DMC4 are, which are all silly and somewhat... cartoonish, and often rather... I don't want to say convoluted... unclear? But the action would just be outstanding. I'm sure after all these years the staff of P* who worked on DMC1 have compiled a whole lot of ideas for that sequel they'd make out of DMC.
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ok, I agree.
As for me, I just want DMC5 from any of those people. Mikami, Kamiya, Itsuno, Inaba. Just make it happen T_T
 
Outside of issues with Kamiya's character, the other complaint seems to be concerns about storytelling, of whether or not he would respect/build on came after DMC1 etc.

That is a valid complaint but honestly that's a concern we'll have with any new writer as DMC is very disconnected which makes the flaws in the writing more apparent and more worrying (which is the argument for the pro-reboot crowd years back).

There isnt an easy answer to this outside of just creating a good story and/or resolving an old one so maybe just pairing him up with a seasoned writer like Kazuhige Nojima of KH/FF fame who could tackle those problems head on.

Im not totally against him soft rebooting it (kicking out everything after 1) but that would depend on what he does after. Maybe bringing in the creative team from the two light novels and giving them DMC2 and free reign in remaking DMC2 would be ideal?
 
Z218 said:
Outside of issues with Kamiya's character, the other complaint seems to be concerns about storytelling, of whether or not he would respect/build on came after DMC1 etc.
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i think the best compromise for that would be for him to not even touch the other material. To simply ignore it, not to confirm it or deny it. To not bring any focus to it. Simply focus on Dante and maybe Trish and leave the rest of everything out of everything,
 
Having Kamiya near DMC5 would make me uneasy, because no matter how much I trust him to deliver with the gameplay aspect of the game, I wouldn´t do it with the characters. I think of BAYONETTA and it gives me
nightmares.

@berto and @Z218
If he were to make the game, the easiest and non threatening way would be to not touch the existent canon, I agree with that. Even so, he has to deliver a story and the way the characters are portrayed could still spoil the whole game for me.

If he were to "slightly" reboot some content, I wouldn´t be against the material from the novels to be included, as I think they are wasted potential, especially the first one.
Also, as much as I adore Vergil, I wouldn´t mind having to fight the evil corrupted twin, instead of the scared and spoiled one.
 
berto said:
i think the best compromise for that would be for him to not even touch the other material. To simply ignore it, not to confirm it or deny it. To not bring any focus to it. Simply focus on Dante and maybe Trish and leave the rest of everything out of everything,
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But that leaves us with the same problem we've had since DMC3, of them ignoring the problems that DMC2 had storywise and never resolving it, which the series would have been better off had they just resolved DMC2's problems in 3 rather than jumping back in 3 only to jump forward again in 4.

Granted alot of complaints with the series (2, the anime, etc) just come down to the stories not written well or interesting so if we can have a standalone tale that builds on what came before/what we know about the series, characters, plot,world etc in a meaningful way, then it might be alright.

It be best tho to give him his own little corner, to either create a new cast or flesh out an old one( like Sparda).

outoftheblue said:
Having Kamiya near DMC5 would make me uneasy, because no matter how much I trust him to deliver with the gameplay aspect of the game, I wouldn´t do it with the characters. I think of BAYONETTA and it gives me
nightmares.

If he were to make the game, the easiest and non threatening way would be to not touch the existent canon, I agree with that. Even so, he has to deliver a story and the way the characters are portrayed could still spoil the whole game for me.

If he were to "slightly" reboot some content, I wouldn´t be against the material from the novels to be included, as I think they are wasted potential, especially the first one.
Also, as much as I adore Vergil, I wouldn´t mind having to fight the evil corrupted twin, instead of the scared and spoiled one.
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Well thats why I said to give him another writer(s) to balance it.

TBH the second light novel is easier to keep as it doesnt contradict anything and a boon since it gives you a way to crossover into other series. The first light novel is harder as it produces a different Dante/Vergil that doesn't match with DMC3's portrayal of either and it would be jarring to see one go from the other.

You could rewrite DMC3 to include the light novel as what happened a year ago but thats better off in adapting to live action or animaion. Best bet for the games themselves would be to stick it between 3 and 1 as less changes would be made.
 
LOL its funny how all this thread did was convince me that mikami should be the one to direct DMC 5 as clearly itsuno's DMC just isn't atmospheric enough and kamiya is more used to making just goofy games like bayonetta that i fear kaimya may actually make dante even more sillier than he was in DMC4!

DMC 1 dante is more or less written like RE 2's leon with superpowers(i swear when dante gives his heroic speeches it reminds me of Leon's monologue in RE 2)so its interesting to see how kamiya views dante as a character does he still view him as just RE2 Leon with super powers? and if he views dante simply as an "OTT stylish wacky devil hunter" its just DMC 4 dante all over again!
berto said:
RE 1.5 seemed to be too action heavy
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Not really... it plays pretty much the same as RE 2 it was cancelled because there were more zombies on screen bringing the overall poly count down and also the realistic police station was the opposite of what mikami wanted which was a giant mansion and we can also assume that mikami also didn't like how RE 1.5 "too conclusive" in terms of story.
Innsmouth said:
Also I rather believe that fact that original build, that was much more realistic was done rather by Mikami
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kamiya was ALWAYS the director of RE 2 mikami was just there to supervise the development and mikami has this nasty habit of cancelling games he did that again with RE 4 betas that game has like 5 versions.
 
ROCKMAN X said:
kamiya was ALWAYS the director of RE 2 mikami was just there to supervise the development and mikami has this nasty habit of cancelling games he did that again with RE 4 betas that game has like 5 versions.
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Ah ok, i just heard he had deeper involvement with one build than with the other
 
@Gel
I'll leave comments to you...

2qdo1v5.png
 
Foxtrot94 said:
I was expecting a comment about how he's hypocritically keeping kissing butt.
LOL
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Kamiya kisses people's backsides when he is interested, but definitively those idiots who, after all these years,are incapable of understanding the guy just made DMC1, are beyond my belief.
With Kamiya, "been there, done that".
Give some more days and the guy is telling everyone to f*** off.
 
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