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Kamiya Wants to Remake DMC, Maybe Someday Make Bayo/DMC Crossover

WolfOD64

That Guy Who Hates Fox McCloud
So in a recent Dengeki Playstation interview, Hideki Kamiya said the following:

“I want to work on a Devil May Cry and Viewtiful Joe remake, or a true sequel for Okami. A cooperation with Dante (from Devil May Cry) and Bayonetta might also be fun. Dear Capcom, if it’s okay with someone like me, I will help anytime. Best regards. Everyone, bow down your heads together with me!”
So, this is essentially just him engaging in wishful thinking like the rest of us. While a number of fans probably salivate at the thought of having DMC and Bayonetta cross over, I'm far more enamored by the thought of completely remaking DMC1. As someone who has insurmountable tons of nostalgia for that game, and places it as my second-favorite in the original series, I would love to see this happen. As much as I love DMC1, I'll be the first to admit that it hasn't aged well, and that it could use an update in many aspects.

And since Kamiya has more experience working on hack-n'-slash combat with his work on Bayonetta, maybe he could implement what he's learned from working on that to DMC1's combat. Putting the game on a modern engine akin to MT Framework would also be ideal, maybe re-record Dante's lines with Reuben Langdon to enforce consistency with the rest of the series, etc.

What do you guys think?
 

Erian1Mortal

Well-known Member
Premium
If he comes back, then I hope he doesn't slab the Bayonetta combat mechanics in....
All in all, I don't know if I really want him at the helm of another DMC game, which is probably because I don't like the attitude he often shows (even though in a lot of cases it's justified).

Another thing is, DMC1 would simply not work with a newer combat system like the other games or Bayonetta. It was designed to be slower and more, how do I put it... let's go with "tactical". The later games were more about experimenting with the combos etc. I feel like they'd need to redo most of the level architecture to accomodate that.

I'd be okay if he was teaming up with Capcom to develop a new spiritual successor or something like that or another Okami (I'd welcome that more then DMC to be honest).

Overall I really don't know what I'd want from another DMC game or a remake of an old title, they could theoretically work on incorporating DMC3 better into 1 so that a few things fit better. And maybe give us a bonus mode where we can play as Nelo lol.... wishful thinking...
 

V's patron

be loyal to what matters
I rather see something new but it would be cool to see him return to the series.

I'd be concerned with storytelling but ehh let's just see what he's got.

It would be cool to get a playable trish campaign.

Or maybe a VJ or Okami crossover with DMC.
 

Innsmouth

Sleeping DMC Fan
Supporter 2014
Lot of talk, but I don't think there is much behind them. In the end it's about what capcom wants. And if they wanted sequel they would anounce one
 

V's patron

be loyal to what matters
There were rumors that he wanted DMC to be like castlevania and have a new cast each game so it be cool to see that happen if he were to return.

Or he can remake DMC2 and do it better this time:angel:.
 

Lain

Earthbound Immortal
Premium
I wouldn't object to a DMC/Bayonetta crossover, though I would prefer if the series moved onwards, rather than getting a spin-off.

In regards to a DMC1 remake. One of the things I treasure most about the original game was its atmosphere and I feel that remaking it in the vein of the later games would take away from that. I wouldn't mind Kamiya pulling a Yakuza 0 and writing a prequel about a younger Dante though.

Seriously though Kamiya, make that final Viewtiful Joe game. The trilogy needs to be completed! :'(
 

DragonMaster2010

Don't Let the Fall of America be Your Fall
I wouldn't mind too much. It's just that Kamiya has an ego that would probably get in the way of him working with Capcom. That, and I feel it wouldn't be the DMC we want it to be, and instead just be Bayonetta but with a Dante skin.
 

berto

I Saw the Devil
Moderator
While a number of fans probably salivate at the thought of having DMC and Bayonetta cross over,
Personally, I'm not one of them. I enjoy both series for their individual flares and a crossover wouldn't sit well with me.

I'm far more enamored by the thought of completely remaking DMC1. As much as I love DMC1, I'll be the first to admit that it hasn't aged well, and that it could use an update in many aspects.
I think I'd limit the remake to graphical and responsive inputs. Simple modern polishing. I don't want any added features. Just leave it as is but with an obviously more intuitive buttons scheme, a higher polygon count and texture quality, and less stiff controls. More than that and it's no longer the same game. Basically, I'd want the game to get the Shadow of the Colossus treatment.

And since Kamiya has more experience working on hack-n'-slash combat with his work on Bayonetta, maybe he could implement what he's learned from working on that to DMC1's combat.
Oh, absolutely not. Once you start adding you don't stop. You add aerial combat then it's 8 more combos, 16 new weapons, and 32 playable characters. While we're at it we can remove the difficulty and fixed camera angles to appeal to modern audiences, take out anything resembling horror so as not scare away the female players, make Dante edgier and a teenager to make it more accessible to a younger audiences, and get rid of that outfit, it doesn't look very good anymore, and why is he wearing so much red?

Before long you'll have a game that is nothing like the game you started with. It's a slippery slyde.

maybe re-record Dante's lines with Reuben Langdon to enforce consistency with the rest of the series, etc.
Ok. That is definitely crossing a line. Basically you don't want the game to look, sound or play the way it does. After that what's left?

Graphic update? Fine, who wouldn't want that? And I definitely wish the game would cancel out of more animations, but removing Coombs' voice? One of the most iconic parts of that game? Nope, that is a definite deal breaker for me.

I know where you're coming from but altering the game so fundamentally, changing so much of what makes it what it is, by pure logic, will transform it into something it's not. I think this is how DmC was conceived, too.

DMC1 belongs to a time in gaming that is both gone and will never come again. Games like OniMusha, Haunting Ground, Beyond Good and Evil, and the lot, which would never be made in this day and age, and probably will never be made again, just like how games like Wild Arms won't either. Because of that I'm very protective of them. DMC1 was, to me, the perfect blend between survival horror and action and it's all the little things that complete the experience, even the now annoying aspects.
 

WolfOD64

That Guy Who Hates Fox McCloud
I think I'd limit the remake to graphical and responsive inputs. Simple modern polishing. I don't want any added features. Just leave it as is but with an obviously more intuitive buttons scheme, a higher polygon count and texture quality, and less stiff controls. More than that and it's no longer the same game. Basically, I'd want the game to get the Shadow of the Colossus treatment.
Plenty of gameplay elements from DMC1 need a lot of reworking, especially in regards to the camera, and even moreso with things like the platforming, the underwater sections, and that Godawful plane sequence towards the end of the game. Reworking the final Mundus Boss fight would also be a welcome change....phase 1 is just rail-shooting, and phase 2 is literally capped with you charging your guns and firing them. Kind of a letdown after far harder fights prior to that one, like Nero Angelo and Griffon.

Oh, absolutely not. Once you start adding you don't stop. You add aerial combat then it's 8 more combos, 16 new weapons, and 32 playable characters. While we're at it we can remove the difficulty and fixed camera angles to appeal to modern audiences, take out anything resembling horror so as not scare away the female players, make Dante edgier and a teenager to make it more accessible to a younger audiences, and get rid of that outfit, it doesn't look very good anymore, and why is he wearing so much red?
Adding combos and weapons wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing. Take a look at Yakuza Kiwami--it completely revamped the combat to support the Style System from Zero, added mini-games from later in the series, and the second remake is going to incorporate the entire Idol Cage Match activity from Zero.

I also don't see how anything I said about Kamiya implementing his experience with Bayonetta's combat has anything to do with changing Dante's character or removing the horror elements. Just because they'll add some things doesn't mean they'll REMOVE everything else.


Ok. That is definitely crossing a line. Basically you don't want the game to look, sound or play the way it does. After that what's left?
Um, retaining the Gothic architecture and enemy designs upon porting it to another engine would still ensure it would look the same. Sound? Keep the original music and everything's fine.

The removal of Coombs' voice would probably be unavoidable due to Japanese Companies often taking the easy route and recasting characters instead of hunting down their old incarnations to pay royalties, or do what the Yakuza remakes did and re-record all the dialogue with the original VA's (and even THAT game recast characters instead of hunting down a lot of the original cast members)...time and resources I gurantee Capcom will easily avoid by hiring everyone accessible who's accessible during modern Capcom development. The Resident Evil series dropped Claire's original voice actor purely out of union disagreements, and that was last year. They recast Claire, and moved on.

Something tells me they're not going to exercise any larger efforts with a series even more obscure, like DMC.

Graphic update? Fine, who wouldn't want that? And I definitely wish the game would cancel out of more animations, but removing Coombs' voice? One of the most iconic parts of that game? Nope, that is a definite deal breaker for me.
This is just down to opinions here, but I really don't care who plays Dante as long as the script remains the same. Both the good elements...and bad...of the original script will be preserved regardless of who plays the characters.

And frankly, Coombs was okay, but I'm not going to let nostalgia blind myself into thinking his performance was even close to being outstanding. It's even cringey in some scenes, and I don't think I really have to be specific as to which ones.

I know where you're coming from but altering the game so fundamentally, changing so much of what makes it what it is, by pure logic, will transform it into something it's not. I think this is how DmC was conceived, too.
DmC was concieved to be a different game, entertaining a different tone and story, catering to a completely different audience. I don't think any of the changes I proposed are even close to that radical of an alteration.

Especially when a large part of the pushback is against the voice actor---last I checked, that really didn't alter the quality of a game. That misplaced mentality is literally the staple of the Sonic Fanbase.

DMC1 belongs to a time in gaming that is both gone and will never come again. Games like OniMusha, Haunting Ground, Beyond Good and Evil, and the lot, which would never be made in this day and age, and probably will never be made again, just like how games like Wild Arms won't either. Because of that I'm very protective of them. DMC1 was, to me, the perfect blend between survival horror and action and it's all the little things that complete the experience, even the now annoying aspects.
I like that generation too, but there are plenty of things about the games from that era that haven't aged well...games on the PS2 in particular. There's a good reason we're getting remakes of Shadow of the Colossus and Yakuza 1 & 2, and that's because technical limitations have made their original console versions VERY archaic by today's standards.

And guess what? Plenty of them have changed radically to fit modern gaming conventions. The wonky camera angles, transition stuttering, and dialogue breaks from Yakuza 1 & 2 were ALL removed from the remakes, had music redone, and as mentioned, had the combat and mini-games completely overhauled.

And somehow, I don't think you'll find many fans complaining about those changes.
 

berto

I Saw the Devil
Moderator
@WolfOD64
I’d like to address all of that point by point but I think I’m off for the holidays. Suficient to say I’m not convinced in the least and if they ever did what you’re describing I wouldn’t play it. As it I barely tolerate the HD port with all of its shortcomings, make drastic changes like that, intentionally, to my favorite game ever and I would rage. Replacing so much of what makes the game what it is would make it unrecognizable, an imitation which similarities are only skin deep. If you wanted to remake DMC2 I’d have no issues, that game could only benefit from a bit of drastic alterations but if the only option for a graphical polish is changing that much then I stand by the original. Leave it alone.
 

WolfOD64

That Guy Who Hates Fox McCloud
@WolfOD64
I’d like to address all of that point by point but I think I’m off for the holidays. Suficient to say I’m not convinced in the least and if they ever did what you’re describing I wouldn’t play it. As it I barely tolerate the HD port with all of its shortcomings, make drastic changes like that, intentionally, to my favorite game ever and I would rage. Replacing so much of what makes the game what it is would make it unrecognizable, an imitation which similarities are only skin deep. If you wanted to remake DMC2 I’d have no issues, that game could only benefit from a bit of drastic alterations but if the only option for a graphical polish is changing that much then I stand by the original. Leave it alone.
Suit yourself. I love the original DMC just as much, but I'd have no problems with an HD remake with drastic changes. It's been done before with Tomb Raider: Anniversary, Yakuza Kiwami, Ratchet & Clank, and a whole host of others.

It wouldn't be leapfrogging genres with all the changes I proposed, and all the suggestions I made regarding a change-up of voice actors is just a practical one in light of Capcom's current production practices. I'd love a lot of things to happen with a remake, but I also have to be realistic.
 

berto

I Saw the Devil
Moderator
drastic changes.
Drastic changes? There were no drastic changes. They upscaled the some textures, remapped the controller to the original Japanese scheme, which they changed for the international version for no other reason than to do so, and recoded the game for the PS3/360. My issue is how the game was ported from an unfinished build of the game, that the sound of the shotgun sounds like they spiked up the volume so it sounds overblown, that the life bar doesn't disappear when you select a weapon and the DT runes have a similar issue, that there are missing effects altogether, that the transparency is off on many objects making them look noticeably brighter, and a whole lot of small issues. The devil's in the details and the completely bodged them here.

all the suggestions I made regarding a change-up of voice actors is just a practical one in light of Capcom's current production practices. I'd love a lot of things to happen with a remake, but I also have to be realistic.
Then, wouldn't changing the face to a single uniformed one be the first logical step. Dante has never had the same face twice, they are all different. Recognizable but significantly different. Hell, he doesn't even have the same body build in any of the games, can't blame all of these on age difference, people's faces and bodies don't change that much over the years.
 

WolfOD64

That Guy Who Hates Fox McCloud
Drastic changes? There were no drastic changes.
Read what I said. I said I wouldn't mind a DMC R E M A K E, not remaster, with the same drastic changes in engine and gameplay as Yakuza Kiwami, Tomb Raider Anniversary, and Ratchet & Clank. I at no point made any reference to the HD Collection anywhere in my posts.

And for the record, a lot of the problems you cite with the HD Collection are extremely minor aesthetic ones. The gameplay, framerate, mechanics, story, and level progression didn't suffer one iota through their transferal to HD. And as someone who played DMC1 religiously as a kid, they didn't do a whole lot to bother me.

Then, wouldn't changing the face to a single uniformed one be the first logical step. Dante has never had the same face twice, they are all different. Recognizable but significantly different. Hell, he doesn't even have the same body build in any of the games, can't blame all of these on age difference, people's faces and bodies don't change that much over the years.
^Valid point. At no point is Dante's shifting physique ever addressed in the game series, or facial differences.

But then, that's an extremely particular aesthetic detail that I doubt Capcom will ever take the time or sweat to remedy. These are the people that had a completely different representation of Rebellion in DMC2 before swapping to a radically-different design for the rest of the series. I don't expect Capcom to patch up inconsistencies with aesthetics, but again, that's not what my post was about, especially in regards to voice acting.

Capcom choosing Langdon over Coombs is a practice they've shown out of recruiting anyone they have access to at the time of production. They haven't been recruiting D.C. Douglas to play Wesker repeatedly in minor roles across Resident Evil spin-offs because of "consistency", but because he's in LA where they do all the voice recording, and WASN'T a part of the Union Strike that prohibited Claire's old voice actress from being sought out. These are production reasons, not artistic ones....reasons I have to anticipate to be practical in my expectations of a remake.

You have a nasty habit of wildly misinterpreting everything I say.
 

berto

I Saw the Devil
Moderator
I at no point made any reference to the HD Collection anywhere in my posts.
No, I did, on the post you responded to, thus me assuming you were talking about the same thing. In fairness I did miss read that so that one's on me.

And for the record, a lot of the problems you cite with the HD Collection are extremely minor aesthetic ones. The gameplay, framerate, mechanics, story, and level progression didn't suffer one iota through their transferal to HD. And as someone who played DMC1 religiously as a kid, they didn't do a whole lot to bother me.
That's a poor attitude to have regarding multi million dollar projects. Being so lax about those things doesn't bode well. If they don't care enough to get a remaster down right what would they do with a remake? The reason we were so forgiving was because the we were pretty damn desperate for this ramke to happen but if this build had been what was released back in the day it would've taited the game and it's reputation and having developers who didn't care enough to get the details right.

But then, that's an extremely particular aesthetic detail that I doubt Capcom will ever take the time or sweat to remedy. These are the people that had a completely different representation of Rebellion in DMC2 before swapping to a radically-different design for the rest of the series. I don't expect Capcom to patch up inconsistencies with aesthetics, but again, that's not what my post was about, especially in regards to voice acting.

Capcom choosing Langdon over Coombs is a practice they've shown out of recruiting anyone they have access to at the time of production. They haven't been recruiting D.C. Douglas to play Wesker repeatedly in minor roles across Resident Evil spin-offs because of "consistency", but because he's in LA where they do all the voice recording, and WASN'T a part of the Union Strike that prohibited Claire's old voice actress from being sought out. These are production reasons, not artistic ones....reasons I have to anticipate to be practical in my expectations of a remake.
Well, fortunately, from my perspective, if visual details are such a minimal aspect that they'd pick production convenience, in the same fashion they pick VA's by convenience, not from any desire for consistency, over 'artistic' merit then why bother with a remake? If it came to artistic merit or consistency vs convenience, convenience would win, then, well, why would they inconvenience themselves on a remake at all? The game already exists, just polish it up, redraw the textures for 4K and fix some visual and auditory issues and release. Why bother remaking a 17 year old game? The only reason RE2 is getting one is because of the post mortem success of RE1's remake and the fact that the game is one of the most iconic entrees in their most profitable franchise. DMC is not something they'd wadger put that much effort into and if they did it would be with 3, not 1, even with it's director offering to do it.

Also, what if it suddenly became 'inconvenient' to hire Mr. Langdon? What if it became more convenient to hire someone else, consistency be damned. These are the people that had a completely different representation of Rebellion in DMC2 before swapping to a radically-different design for the rest of the series. But would that still be OK if it was some random actor or does it really have to be Langdon? And that's just the voice actor.

When you make a game it's not just the director who makes the game what it is, he just picks and puts together what the staff create and a lot of that key staff is gone, scattered (and a lot didn't go to P*) and some even dead. The people who'd be left to the task would only interpret what they think made the game what it was or change it to their preferences. The reason REmake worked so well is because it was Mikami making the game he envisioned without the restrictions of technology, but the game was essentially the same: mechanics, combat, ecstatic camera, stage design and even puzzles, but what you're asking for disposes of a lot of what makes the game what it is and if they had taken your approach with REmake it would've been unrecognizable as the same title.

Ultimately, though, this argument will only go on and on, we're just going in circles. At this point I'm just repeating myself. It's not as though it matters, either. The idea was that Kamiya was showing his interest in making a DMC game and your ideal notion of a remake. I've mentioned my thoughts on that matter and made my feelings on it clear. Not really much else worth saying on the matter.

You have a nasty habit of wildly misinterpreting everything I say.
Oh? I don't recall any other time I have misinterpreted everything you've said. When did this happen?

Truer words, friend.
I'm sorry, is this something you find me doing to you, as well? If not, well, then, thanks for that great contribution on the topic.
 

Foxtrot94

Elite Hunter
Premium
My two cents on the matter is that my ideal DMC1 remake would be a complete rework done in MT Framework and that's pretty much it. Just imagine the atmosphere of DMC1 combined with the gorgeousness of DMC4.

Yeah I know they wouldn't go through such a hassle for something that is anything less than their absolute top selling franchises, I'm just daydreaming.
 
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