Kamiya Wants to Remake DMC, Maybe Someday Make Bayo/DMC Crossover

[Erian1Mortal]

My two cents on the matter is that my ideal DMC1 remake would be a complete rework done in MT Framework and that's pretty much it. Just imagine the atmosphere of DMC1 combined with the gorgeousness of DMC4.

Yeah I know they wouldn't go through such a hassle for something that is anything less than their absolute top selling franchises, I'm just daydreaming.

Man I'd love that, I'd also love a remake of the Onimusha games, probably would never happen though.

 

[WolfOD64]

Oh? I don't recall any other time I have misinterpreted everything you've said. When did this happen?

^Question.

No, I did, on the post you responded to, thus me assuming you were talking about the same thing. In fairness I did miss read that so that one's on me.

^Answer.

Moving on:

That's a poor attitude to have regarding multi million dollar projects. Being so lax about those things doesn't bode well. If they don't care enough to get a remaster down right what would they do with a remake? The reason we were so forgiving was because the we were pretty damn desperate for this ramke to happen but if this build had been what was released back in the day it would've taited the game and it's reputation and having developers who didn't care enough to get the details right.

What, prioritizing gameplay over aestehtics where CAPCOM is concerned is a bad attitude to have? May I remind you that the heat of the initial controversy surrounding DmC was over how it LOOKED versus how it PLAYED? If anything, my attitude is the one that ensured something like DmC: Definitive Edition ever got made...something to address the MECHANICAL problems with the game, and not the AESTHETIC ones.

And as for it being a 'multi-million dollar project'...the remake might be, considering that would probably require migration to a new engine, but the remaster? Considering they're using the original source code to push out a quick HD cash-grab, I don't think a lot of money or effort went into putting it together. The fact that the menus aren't in widescreen and that DMC3's pre-rendered cutscenes are still fuzzy PS2 footage on the remaster is proof that it was shoved out relatively quickly...which is kind of what Capcom does, at this point.

Resident Evil REmake HD, Okami HD, DMC HD...they all required minimal effort at best. They weren't full-scale engine remasters like Kingdom Hearts 1.5+2.5 Final Mix, or Zelda: Wind Waker HD. It's literally just upscaling the game to a higher resolution.

Aestehtics don't make or break remasters...the gameplay does. This is why the Silent Hill HD Collection was a mess, because the source code was in such shambles that the gamepley -altering fog effects were in terrible shape, and the framerate was slower than molasses. Subverting THOSE issues in an HD port should be the priority, not how "purdy" it looks.

The reason we were so forgiving was because the we were pretty damn desperate for this ramke to happen

You're going to have to explain to me what a "ramke" is.

Well, fortunately, from my perspective, if visual details are such a minimal aspect that they'd pick production convenience, in the same fashion they pick VA's by convenience, not from any desire for consistency, over 'artistic' merit then why bother with a remake?If it came to artistic merit or consistency vs convenience, convenience would win, then, well, why would they inconvenience themselves on a remake at all? The game already exists, just polish it up, redraw the textures for 4K and fix some visual and auditory issues and release. Why bother remaking a 17 year old game?

You want the realistic answer? Capcom would do it to make money. The same motivation for EVERY remake and remaster on the market.

I think the only remake that was ever made out of artistic motivation was Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes, and that was shortly disowned by Hideo Kojima after it was released.

The only reason RE2 is getting one is because of the post mortem success of RE1's remake and the fact that the game is one of the most iconic entrees in their most profitable franchise.

They don't always port/remaster games due solely to their immense popularity. For every RE remaster or rezzed up Street Fighter 2 port, they'll also do something like Okami HD, or Dungeons & Dragons: Chronicles of Mystara. Games that have cult followings and weren't franchise hits on release, but could warrant a quick buck.

And most of those were done by third-party companies as well, saving Capcom most of the effort. If some outside developer like Platinum Games offered to remake DMC1 for them, relieving Capcom of any developmental responsibilities or manpower, I don't see why Capcom wouldn't consider it given their reputation for laziness.

Hell, that was one of the motives behind DmC....it was a risk-free, effortless attempt: "Yeah, we're paying for it, but at least we don't have to make it ourselves! Let's just hire some tiny British Studio to do it for us, and give it a sixth of the last game's budget!"

DMC is not something they'd wadger put that much effort into and if they did it would be with 3, not 1, even with it's director offering to do it.

I dunno. I see more DMC1 costumes and references in Capcom games these days than for 3.
Monster Hunter, Sengoku Basara, Project X Zone, Dead Rising...they all use Dante's DMC1 costume. It may be the version Capcom holds in the most reverance, or it may actually be because of the Japanese consumer awareness only recognizing Dante through how he looks in the first game.

Either way, I don't see a lot of love for DMC3 outside of that version of Dante's appearance in the Marvel games.

Also, what if it suddenly became 'inconvenient' to hire Mr. Langdon? What if it became more convenient to hire someone else, consistency be damned.

....they'd replace him, like they did with Roger Craig Smith as Chris Redfleid?

The fact that they were willing to do that with a far more popular franchise like Resident Evil is proof of how quick Capcom is to utilize such a practice.

These are the people that had a completely different representation of Rebellion in DMC2 before swapping to a radically-different design for the rest of the series. But would that still be OK if it was some random actor or does it really have to be Langdon? And that's just the voice actor.

Luckily, I think the chances of Capcom replacing Langdon are INCREDIBLY slim, and that's largely because of Capcom's extremely good working relationship with the mo-cap company Langdon works with, Just Cause Productions. Just Cause and Langdon have both been brought in to do motion capture for characters in practically every Resident Evil game of the last 10 years, and do minor work for smaller projects like DMC, and their studios are LITERALLY in the same vicinities of their Tokyo and LA branches, making them a phone call away.

The only reason they'd ever change Dante's voice is if something tainted their work relationship with Just Cause, or if they were compelled by some artistic reason to cast someone else (which, as we've already covered, is an artistic pursuit well out of habit for an entity as lazy & money-minded as Capcom).

When you make a game it's not just the director who makes the game what it is, he just picks and puts together what the staff create and a lot of that key staff is gone, scattered (and a lot didn't go to P*) and some even dead. The people who'd be left to the task would only interpret what they think made the game what it was or change it to their preferences. The reason REmake worked so well is because it was Mikami making the game he envisioned without the restrictions of technology, but the game was essentially the same: mechanics, combat, ecstatic camera, stage design and even puzzles, but what you're asking for disposes of a lot of what makes the game what it is and if they had taken your approach with REmake it would've been unrecognizable as the same title.

I don't see how anything I proposed would render DMC1 unrecognizable.

AGAIN, for the eleventh time, Yakuza Kiwami has a different combat system, graphics engine, script, soundtrack, feature-set, and mini-game selection than its PS2 original, and there was no failure to recognize it as a remake of the first game. I don't hear the SEGA forums erupting in fits of rage over the "betrayal" or removing the godawful PS2-era setbacks like stiff combat mechanics and camera problems....you know, the kind of things I'm proposing for DMC1?

Ultimately, though, this argument will only go on and on, we're just going in circles. At this point I'm just repeating myself. It's not as though it matters, either. The idea was that Kamiya was showing his interest in making a DMC game and your ideal notion of a remake. I've mentioned my thoughts on that matter and made my feelings on it clear. Not really much else worth saying on the matter.

Evidently not. We haven't progressed this conversation an inch since my first post, and it's largely due to me having to repeat myself like a caffeine-jumped parrot, re-establishing points you're consistently ignoring.

I never even brought up the HD Collection in any capacity in my original post, and yet somehow, that's what 75% of this discussion randomly became about.

 

[Innsmouth]

*sigh* so many effort goes into debating something that probably never happens. Last time I heard about capcom remaking anything it was RE2...and so far there was not a single news about it, since anouncement. Honestly I doubt it'll ever be a thing. I for one, would suggest not to put much effort into debating something that by noe means anounced. If we got everything kamiya wanted to make, we would already had Bayonetta 3, Okami 2 and standalone Jeanne game...none are which are so far in production.

 

[RadiantWolf]

Seeing Devil May Cry 1's story retold with more polished gameplay and maybe uhm...a script and proper localization...would be amazing. DMC1 is actually my favorite in the series. I acknowledge the gameplay in 4 and 3 is better but there is something about 1's weird, rough-hewn edges I've always found charming. I'd be curious to see what I would think of a remake.

I would also like to see Coombs back but would have no expectations of seeing him back. Letting him tackle Dante with a reworked script (to even out the incredibly painful lines that sound like nonsense to an English speaking audience, looking at you "Usless scum... Failure is one thing but taking an odd behavior like that...") would be great. I think the guy has an unfair reputation regarding his performance. I never got the feeling he was phoning it in, he seemed to inject the role with as much pathos as he could, but no actor could save some of those lines. Having a director who didn't entirely speak the language did not help, I'm sure.

My big fear with a reworked script would be Capcom turning every cutscene into an action scene which would be the opposite of what I would personally want from a rework. I would want the flavor of the original scenes intact, just with writing that delivers the originally intended emotional impact.

....Also Okami 2? /bites knuckles.

 

[ToCool74]

@WolfOD64
DMC2 I’d have no issues, that game could only benefit from a bit of drastic alterations but if the only option for a graphical polish is changing that much then I stand by the original. Leave it alone.

Agreed with this one, update it to include a better story, graphics, and over all balance, make it in the vein of what Sega recently is doing with the Yakuza Kiwami series where they went back and did a complete overhaul of the graphics and gameplay while also retaining the same story and actually expanding on it with new storylines and elements within the game that helped fill plotholes (such as the new Nishki storyline), I think DMC2 could definitely contribute from such a treatment, especially if it adds a story subplot that explains Dante's more serious demeanor.

 

[V's patron]

I like @Lain's idea of a prequel but a sequel would be welcome as well. In the artbook there were mentions that people had a hard time figuring Dante out. So maybe Kamiya being Dante's creator might have better luck?

 

[Lain]

I like @Lain's idea of a prequel but a sequel would be welcome as well. In the artbook there were mentions that people had a hard time figuring Dante out. So maybe Kamiya being Dante's creator might have better luck?

Maybe I've been thinking about this too much but from what I see, the problem with DMC sequels is indeed that they don't know what to do with Dante after DMC1. So maybe what they should do is test the waters with that prequel I mentioned - really experiment with what they can do. And if it's successful then maybe leave the door open for a DMC5 to follow it up rather than just be another "Someone wants the power of Sparda" plot.

 

[V's patron]

Maybe I've been thinking about this too much but from what I see, the problem with DMC sequels is indeed that they don't know what to do with Dante after DMC1. So maybe what they should do is test the waters with that prequel I mentioned - really experiment with what they can do. And if it's successful then maybe leave the door open for a DMC5 to follow it up rather than just be another "Someone wants the power of Sparda" plot.

I'm not 100% sure a prequel would help without them tieing it into the present or exploring Dante more thoroughly as a person.

 

[Lain]

I'm not 100% sure a prequel would help without them tieing it into the present or exploring Dante more thoroughly as a person.

It's all about the execution. We know very little about Dante's life outside of what's shown in the games themselves. How he started out in the demon hunting business for example. Maybe he had a mentor? Maybe he had competition in the business since he was a novice? Stuff like that which could show more depth into his character and how he developed the cocky showoff persona he has in the present.

As for how a prequel would connect to a sequel, that could be done by leaving plot threads open for later payoff. For example, in a hypothetical prequel, Dante's mentor get's murdered by a demon but throughout the game Dante never gets a chance to catch the perpetrator. In the hypothetical DMC5, Present day Dante finally gets a clue to the prepetrator's whereabouts but gets pulled into a larger conspiracy that happens to be going on and the perp is involved in.

But anyways, this is getting somewhat off-topic so I'll end these ruminations here.

 

[HeroOfTime]

I personally would love the idea of a Bayo/DMC crossover and to see DMC 1 (my favourite Dante ever) back and in a ether remade or new game

 

[devil_inside123]

Oh, absolutely not. Once you start adding you don't stop. You add aerial combat then it's 8 more combos, 16 new weapons, and 32 playable characters. While we're at it we can remove the difficulty and fixed camera angles to appeal to modern audiences, take out anything resembling horror so as not scare away the female players, make Dante edgier and a teenager to make it more accessible to a younger audiences, and get rid of that outfit, it doesn't look very good anymore, and why is he wearing so much red?

Before long you'll have a game that is nothing like the game you started with. It's a slippery slyde

I think you just described how DmC: Devil may cry was made

*sigh* so many effort goes into debating something that probably never happens. Last time I heard about capcom remaking anything it was RE2...and so far there was not a single news about it, since anouncement. Honestly I doubt it'll ever be a thing. I for one, would suggest not to put much effort into debating something that by noe means anounced. If we got everything kamiya wanted to make, we would already had Bayonetta 3, Okami 2 and standalone Jeanne game...none are which are so far in production.

but we are getting beyonetta 3 haven't you heard?

 

[berto]

I think you just described how DmC: Devil may cry was made

Yeah, well, I almost also said “and it’s set in high school” since it adds a layer of Dragon Ball blasphemy to drive the point home but all of that are things that have been said as to why they made all the drastic measures from DMC3 to 4 and DmC. Specially the stuff that really p***ed me off.

 

[Innsmouth]

but we are getting beyonetta 3 haven't you heard?

which he doesn't direct. Kamiya has no influence over what gonna be with capcom franchises. He just talks alot about his ideas, but most of them are empty shots in the dark

 

[V's patron]

It's just a wishlist of games he would like to make, ideas that would be appealing to him so don't take it as hard fact.

Bayonetta 3 hasn't had much details released other than it exists and its a switch exclusive. So its up in the air if he's directing or not.

Ideaswise i'd be interested in those projects but I would have to see something concrete first.

Even then execution is everything. DmC/DMC4/DMC2/Anime all had ok to good ideas but questionable execution.

@Lain @berto
Funny thing is I think you can get away with Dante in high school more easily than DragonBall evolution did. Dante's backstory is pretty vague outside his mom dying so you can sneaked that in there.

You can pitch a DMC x Rival schools that way. Dante went to one of the schools when he was a teen and he goes back when he's older because the schools are involved in demon shenanigans. Throw in the ten year high school reunion and voila you have a story.

 

[Lain]

@Lain @berto
Funny thing is I think you can get away with Dante in high school more easily than DragonBall evolution did. Dante's backstory is pretty vague outside his mom dying so you can sneaked that in there.

You can pitch a DMC x Rival schools that way. Dante went to one of the schools when he was a teen and he goes back when he's older because the schools are involved in demon shenanigans. Throw in the ten year high school reunion and voila you have a story.

I dunno, Dante strikes me more of a high school drop out. :tongue:

But in all seriousness, the future (or past in this case) is pretty much a blank canvas and so anything can fly if you write it compellingly enough.

But for real though, I need a DMC/Devilman crossover. Make it happen Capcom. :thumbsup:

 

[devil_inside123]

I dunno, Dante strikes me more of a high school drop out. :tongue:

But in all seriousness, the future (or past in this case) is pretty much a blank canvas and so anything can fly if you write it compellingly enough.

But for real though, I need a DMC/Devilman crossover. Make it happen Capcom. :thumbsup:

Since Dante isn't stupid I feel like he'd just get the assignment done quickly and sleep the rest of the class

 

[V's patron]

I rather see him make the DMC2 he would have made had he worked on the sequel.

So I'd give him free reign to remake DMC2 however he wanted.

 

[Sesha]

which he doesn't direct. Kamiya has no influence over what gonna be with capcom franchises. He just talks alot about his ideas, but most of them are empty shots in the dark

Bayo 3's director is still TBA.