Just how is the game slow?

[Furious D]

Could this be more about the less frames we see, and not exactly about "fluidity?" I haven't really seen a lot of proper "lead-in" animations on moves in any of the games, especially when you do things like Hightime or Stinger, or even switching to a different weapon entirely. There are certainly points where one move can flow into another much better, but it's not like nearly all of the attacks have lead-in animations from the previous :/

I think what he meant was that a lot of animations end in a state that is roughly similar to the start of the animation of a lot of other moves, preventing a jarring switch between the two. As far as I can recall, the moves in the game did not have a transition animation for each combination of attacks.

 

[ChaserTech]

I think i compared streak to a MAX-ACT streak and not a EX-streak. But still the basic input to a EX-Streak or a Max act streak is still the streak itself which was my point. If you are considering a ex streak as same as max act streak, We can all agree that a hold is same as buster(though technically not but still a cancel to throw in buster animation).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My point was that hold was an extension of buster jus as max-act streak is an amplification(kinda extension) of streak. I also said that it is used to guard nero which is its ability. But royal-guard ability is to block enemies but still we use it in cancels. I think of hold as the same way(as a cancel to the throw or subsequent animation of buster).Hold is not an entirely different move from buster but is an extension of buster(which is my point).Its significance is to cancel throw of buster. In real time scenarios , using hold as a guard would not fetch style points nor is considered stylish move however cancelling throw of buster with red queen calibur is stylish.

That's because DMC4 generalizes Ex moves. Any move that has any level of the Exceed meter is considered to be an Ex move. Each level that is added to special attacks only makes the attack stronger and adds additional hits.

It's like UMVC3 not giving names to give Ryu's Light, Medium, and Heavy version of the Hadouken, Shoryuken, and Tatsumaki Senpuu Kyaku.
It even has different inputs with different properties (speed wise and strength wise). Yet it's considered to be the same move: A Hadouken, a Shoryuken, and a Tatsumaki Senpuu Kyaku. I could go on with other fighting games and characters as well but I won't because that would take too long.

But DMC4 labels Hold as a separate move because it has a completely different mechanic.

With Buster, you grab the enemy and you throw them.
With Buster -> Hold, you grab the enemy with Buster then Hold.
Comparing that to the EX gauge system is not a good comparison. It's an extension, yes. But it's considered to be a different move as well as an extension.

And with Royal Guarding, you are cancelling attack animations during their attacks. So you're cancelling recovery animations, as well as some attack hitboxes, in order to do something else that you wouldn't be able to do normally.

I don't know how many times I have to say that to get that across.

Can't agree. Throw is the significant part of buster move and hold is clearly for cancellation of throw in buster animation.In fact, throw does the actual damage and so it is significant.

Well if you can't agree with the game itself, then it's not my problem.
The game itself lists Buster as the grab portion, so I really don't know what to say if you can't agree with it.

If "After completing a Buster, continue to hold O." doesn't do it for you when it's listed by the game itself, then I don't know what will. You can continue to think that the Buster uppercut and the throw are one single sequence, but it's not because the DMC4 labels it separately.

I think of hold as the same way(as a cancel to the throw or subsequent animation of buster).

That's your opinion. You think Hold of being the same as cancelling Buster. But Buster is considered to be the grab portion, based off from the game. That's your opinion if you think this way.

And with that, I'm taking my leave from this argument.
Respond if you want but I'm tired of arguing about this subject.

I think what he meant was that a lot of animations end in a state that is roughly similar to the start of the animation of a lot of other moves, preventing a jarring switch between the two. As far as I can recall, the moves in the game did not have a transition animation for each combination of attacks.

If you're talking about DMC4, I easily can prove this to you that there are animations that transition to other attacks rather than starting to the beginning of another animation. It's not apparent to all moves, but I assure you it's there with most moves.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

Royal guard's properties are to block and release. But we still use it in cancels. Same goes for hold.

You're...no...just...no. It's not about the properties of the move itself, it's how it's used to cancel the animations of something else that preceded it.

I can Jump Cancel a move simply to jump and/or avoid an incoming attack, but the point of the Jump Cancel is to cancel out of the animation frames of whatever I was doing before that. It puts me in a neutral air stance from which I can do whatever the hell else I want to. The same works for whatever other Cancels we can do in the game...really any game, not just DMC

As Chaser said, you're arguing your opinion, which runs contrary to both how they function in the games, and how it is perceived by the majority of the playerbase.

 

[Dark Drakan]

There are actually some good discussions going on in this thread so hopefully thats the end of the "Fags" & "Dumbass" talk though yeah? Be a shame to ruin the good in the thread by resorting to this again.

 

[Furious D]

If you're talking about DMC4, I easily can prove this to you that there are animations that transition to other attacks rather than starting to the beginning of another animation. It's not apparent to all moves, but I assure you it's there with most moves.

That's really neat! So, for example, if I use the first hit of Rebellion Combo A, and then do Rising Dragon with Gilgamesh (I forget its real name...), there is a unique animation in the game that goes between those two moves?

 

[ChaserTech]

That's really neat! So, for example, if I use the first hit of Rebellion Combo A, and then do Rising Dragon with Gilgamesh (I forget its real name...), there is a unique animation in the game that goes between those two moves?

Just tested this, and yes there is a transition between the two moves.
In fact, here's a video showing some moves combined together in slow motion: (I could have done more but I'm sleepy lol)

I think the problem is that people see DMC4/DMC3 Turbo mode and say isn't fluid because the animations are going too fast for them to notice, when it's fairly easy to miss to the untrained eye.
(Which is funny since most people also exclude Turbo mode gameplay for speed comparisons. :/)

But in DMC4, animations blend together pretty well. (I swear either they animated everything or they made an algorithm for it.)

And even when Dante does have moves with no clean transitions, just an animation that poorly leads into the beginning of a preset animation, his coat physics actually had separate transitions.
I know it's just a preference, but it's just something that I really like. Fluidity like this is awesome in games imo since it has a nice visual flow to everything. It's the main reason why I'm also a huge fan of Ninja Gaiden combat because it's fairly smooth. (judging from the combo videos that I see)

I can think of a few moves that don't have good transitions, mainly using guns in the air combined with aerial moves.
Heck, even Guard Cancelling and Jump Cancelling has decent transitions. And I was quite surprised to see this.

 

[Furious D]

Just tested this, and yes there is a transition between the two moves.
In fact, here's a video showing some moves combined together in slow motion: (I could have done more but I'm sleepy lol)

I think the problem is that people see DMC4/DMC3 Turbo mode and say isn't fluid because the animations are going too fast for them to notice, when it's fairly easy to miss to the untrained eye.
(Which is funny since most people also exclude Turbo mode gameplay for speed comparisons. :/)

But in DMC4, animations blend together pretty well. (I swear either they animated everything or they made an algorithm for it.)

And even when Dante does have moves with no clean transitions, just an animation that poorly leads into the beginning of a preset animation, his coat physics actually had separate transitions.
I know it's just a preference, but it's just something that I really like. Fluidity like this is awesome in games imo since it has a nice visual flow to everything. It's the main reason why I'm also a huge fan of Ninja Gaiden combat because it's fairly smooth. (judging from the combo videos that I see)

I can think of a few moves that don't have good transitions, mainly using guns in the air combined with aerial moves.
Heck, even Guard Cancelling and Jump Cancelling has decent transitions. And I was quite surprised to see this.

Hm. Looking at that closely, it doesn't look like there are intermediate animations between most moves (like rose toss -> Prop), but there are between some. Mostly, it looks like the animations of Dante's moves are so amazingly designed that the end of any move looks a lot like the starting position of any other move, something that DmC regrettably lacks, making the switch from one move to the next look very fluid and natural.

 

[aoshi]

That's your opinion. You think Hold of being the same as cancelling Buster. But Buster is considered to be the grab portion, based off from the game. That's your opinion if you think this way.

I don't THINK that going into a hold after buster and using red queen will cancel the buster but that's how the game functions. If you can't agree to something that's actually happening in the game, that's not my problem either.

 

[Shodan]

The game looks good and I think the pace is appropriate.
Of course, for others it may be a problem. In my case, it does not make any

 

[lorddemolatron]

I think that game engine UE3 should show other that It can hold Hack and Slash games beside flagships what are FPS , Im not raging that FPS will be low I enjoy any game

 

[ZeroLove]

The game looks good and I think the pace is appropriate.
Of course, for others it may be a problem. In my case, it does not make any

Welcome to the forums! *brohoof* ^^

 

[Shodan]

Welcome to the forums! *brohoof* ^^

Thanks ^^ /)c(\

 

[TyIquan_DmC]

Hm. Looking at that closely, it doesn't look like there are intermediate animations between most moves (like rose toss -> Prop), but there are between some. Mostly, it looks like the animations of Dante's moves are so amazingly designed that the end of any move looks a lot like the starting position of any other move, something that DmC regrettably lacks, making the switch from one move to the next look very fluid and natural.

Kind of a petty complaint, though...

 

[ChaserTech]

Kind of a petty complaint, though...

Games with fluid animations are necessary in making a decent game.
If you have a game with bad animations, then it won't be that appealing to the average gamer.

 

[Furious D]

Kind of a petty complaint, though...

I'm not saying that DmC's lack of animation design on-par with that of DMC4's makes it a bad game. I think DmC is the most well-rounded approach to the series yet, but they have made a few sacrifices in refinement for the sake of more content and a new vision. There are masterful elements of the previous entries that are desired, but are not absolutely essential. I don't mean it as a complaint, just an observation.

 

[TyIquan_DmC]

Games with fluid animations are necessary in making a decent game.
If you have a game with bad animations, then it won't be that appealing to the average gamer.

Earlier didn't you agree that the average gamer wouldn't even notice? The animations aren't bad.

 

[ChaserTech]

Earlier didn't you agree that the average gamer wouldn't even notice? The animations aren't bad.

I said the average gamer wouldn't notice animation transitions in DMC4/DMC3 in turbo mode. I wasn't talking about DmC.
Plus, when I was talking about bad animations, I was referring to any with obviously horrible animations. Not DmC.

 

[TyIquan_DmC]

So if they don't notice it there, how would they notice the absence here? *shrugs*

Opinion is opinion, I just don't think it's really worthy of blowing up. Mountains, mole hills, etc.

 

[ChaserTech]

So if they don't notice it there, how would they notice the absence here? *shrugs*

Considering that DmC doesn't have turbo mode, I would assume that it's easier to notice transitions since it's slower.

Opinion is opinion, I just don't think it's really worthy of blowing up. Mountains, mole hills, etc.

Yes, it's just my opinion. I stated that since it's just a preference of mine.
And to me, fluidity it's just something I really like in a combat game. Or any game really.
If something is choppy then you can only expect me to become discouraged about playing it.

But it's certainly not the only thing I dislike about DmC.

 

[LeoXCV]

Opinion is opinion, I just don't think it's really worthy of blowing up. Mountains, mole hills, etc.

That may be so, thing is DMC4 was released in 2007, it's now 2013 and in DmC they actually backtracked on some things they did well. I know it is NT now but that shouldn't be an excuse, they should be prepared to make it the best and learn from what Capcom did well. Also if no one brought this stuff up and complained developers would just get lazy and we'll end up with a load of glitchy looking games. In other words if we make our standards higher, the developers have to up their standards.