Just how is the game slow?

[DreadnoughtDT]

I'm sorry to point this out, but you don't need to JC in order to keep the enemy in midair in DmC. You can just spam Angel Lift over and over again and you'll stay in the air indefinitely.

No, I mean it's a glitch. Every time you JC the enemy restarts their falling animation. You can infinitely JC off the same enemy without even pulling off the attack, and it ends up making both Dante and the enemy look like they're having a spaz attack.

I dunno, I thought it was funny. And as for the Angel Lift, yeah, I know that already. I might be stupid when it comes to advanced techniques according to some people, but I know about the basic moves.

 

[ChaserTech]

No, I mean it's a glitch. Every time you JC the enemy restarts their falling animation.

Oh yeah that too. I personally don't know what the devs were thinking when they decided that enemies should restart their falling animations when Dante jumps near them in midair. That's just stupid. I don't know how they overlooked this.

DMC3 invented it and DMC4 got it right (made it even better in my opinion).
DmC took the concept and horribly botched it. It feels hastily added just to appeal to the veterans of DMC combat when DmC doesn't even need JC since you can literally stay in the air easily without it.


Also, about your earlier post, don't worry too much about it.
It's just that whenever I encounter this, I personally believe that people think this way because they believe they aren't good. So they need to justify why people are better than them in the most illogical way possible.

 

[Valcorn]

The enemy step in DmC is weirdly made, yeah.... denies gravity too much, but this is devil may cry we are talking about, so ._.

 

[aoshi]

It plays a huge role in his combat since you can cancel any move at any given time except for Buster & Snatch.

Busters can be cancelled. We jus need to hold the buster button and a red queen input will cancel the buster. Ofcourse, except for enemies like blitz, angelos and bosses, we won't be able to cancel buster.

 

[DreadnoughtDT]

Also, about your earlier post, don't worry too much about it. It's just that whenever I encounter this, I personally believe that people think this way because they believe they aren't good. So they need to justify why people are better than them in the most illogical way possible.

Yeah, that's generally how it goes... Talk about bad first impressions. How about we just start over, huh? Hi, I'm Darigion, and I suck at DMC. XD

 

[ChaserTech]

Busters can be cancelled. We jus need to hold the buster button and a red queen input will cancel the buster.

That's just Hold, which is a move. You aren't cancelling Buster since it never initiated.
You're essentially doing: Buster, Hold, Attack, let go of Hold.

 

[CheeseKao]

DMC3 invented it and DMC4 got it right (made it even better in my opinion).
DmC took the concept and horribly botched it. It feels hastily added just to appeal to the veterans of DMC combat when DmC doesn't even need JC since you can literally stay in the air easily without it.

I don't believe it was 'hastily added'. I think it's just that NT could not replicate the move due to them never implementing this type of mechanic before. Inexperience, in short.

 

[ChaserTech]

I don't believe it was 'hastily added'. I think it's just that NT could not replicate the move due to them never implementing this type of mechanic before. Inexperience, in short.

I didn't say it was. I said it felt as such.
Although even if they had inexperience with adding this sort of mechanic within the game, the very least they could do is ask for help from Capcom, who technically overshadows the whole production.

 

[CheeseKao]

I didn't say it was. I said it felt as such.
Although even if they had inexperience with adding this sort of mechanic within the game, the very least they could do is ask for help from Capcom, who technically overshadows the whole production.

Maybe the use of different engines could be the cause of this problem?

 

[TheNoHeartedBeing]

It's slower, no such thing as trickster, guard cancel etc.

those were put in there intentionally you dumbass, it's present even in DmC

Im pretty sure they didnt put JCing in dmc3 on purpose. It was never on the move set. They never hinted it while in the enemy step description. Im pretty sure they never said you can cancel out attacks using enemy step inside the game. People figured it out themselves. Capcom never said anything. Now when DMC4 came out they might had it in mind to have JCing because they saw videos on youtube of people pulling it off and, most DmC most definitely had JCing put in it purposely. I remember an interview with Tameen. He had said that they had testers and they made sure to put JCing inside the game. What im saying is at first JCing was not put in the game intentionally. Capcom wasn't hosting meeting saying stuff like " oh yeah were going to let them stay in the air so long canceling attacks and bringing enemies all the way up to the sky" No they never did.

 

[aoshi]

You aren't cancelling Buster since it never initiated.

As soon as we hit the buster input, It is considered initiated. So holding buster input itself is to cancel the subsequent animation. Using red queen, cancels the entire buster move. It is safe to assume that busters can be cancelled.

 

[ChaserTech]

Maybe the use of different engines could be the cause of this problem?

Could be, however seeing how the enemies stalling in midair due to Dante jumping near them could be completely removed (probably easily) since Dante as preset combos that keep the enemy in midair, without JCing. Jumping is a mechanic that shouldn't alter falling animations from enemies.

In fact, as I said before, he doesn't need JC since he was specifically built to stay in the air for longer periods of time compared to DMC3/DMC4 Dante. And I think it makes the game slightly broken because of this.


In DMC4/DMC3, JCing required skill. If you weren't in the air, normally you constantly bombarded with attacks when crowded, getting hit constantly unless you knew how to deal with it. (Or unless if you were spamming the same attacks over and over again which is kinda basic, lame, and unskilled).

With Nero, you can pick off certain enemies by bringing them towards you, except with Blitz, Angelos, Fausts/Mephistos unless you de-cloaked them. But you still needed to learn how to JC to stay in the air. With DmC in the mix, you can pick off any enemy in the air by using the same combo over and over again multiple times as well as following up with Angel Lift until the enemy is dead.

tl;dr version: JCing isn't needed anymore nor should it have been added to this game since Dante was programmed to stay in the air.

As soon as we hit the buster input, It is considered initiated. So holding buster input itself is to cancel the subsequent animation. Using red queen, cancels the entire buster move. It is safe to assume that busters can be cancelled.

Do it without Hold and see if it works, then I will believe you.
Otherwise, you aren't cancelling buster (edit) grab*.

You are abusing the Hold tactic to stop the Buster throw from initiating. (which is what I should have said in the first place).

Im pretty sure they didnt put JCing in dmc3 on purpose. It was never on the move set. They never hinted it while in the enemy step description. Im pretty sure they never said you can cancel out attacks using enemy step inside the game. People figured it out themselves. Capcom never said anything. Now when DMC4 came out they might had it in mind to have JCing because they saw videos on youtube of people pulling it off and, most DmC most definitely had JCing put in it purposely. I remember an interview with Tameen. He had said that they had testers and they made sure to put JCing inside the game. What im saying is at first JCing was not put in the game intentionally. Capcom wasn't hosting meeting saying stuff like " oh yeah were going to let them stay in the air so long canceling attacks and bringing enemies all the way up to the sky" No they never did.

If they didn't put JCing on purpose, then they must knew about it and have left it in considering there were videos about the combat system within the game as unlockables. And it showed several usages of JCing.

And in DMC4, it was put in the game on purpose due to the fact you needed to buy the ability to use enemy step.

 

[CheeseKao]

Could be, however seeing how the enemies stalling in midair due to Dante jumping near them could be completely removed (probably easily) since Dante as preset combos that keep the enemy in midair, without JCing. Jumping is a mechanic that shouldn't alter falling animations from enemies.

In fact, as I said before, he doesn't need JC since he was specifically built to stay in the air for longer periods of time compared to DMC3/DMC4 Dante. And I think it makes the game slightly broken because of this.


In DMC4/DMC3, JCing required skill. If you weren't in the air, normally you constantly bombarded with attacks when crowded, getting hit constantly unless you knew how to deal with it. (Or unless if you were spamming the same attacks over and over again which is kinda basic, lame, and unskilled).

With Nero, you can pick off certain enemies by bringing them towards you, except with Blitz, Angelos, Fausts/Mephistos unless you de-cloaked them. But you still needed to learn how to JC to stay in the air. With DmC in the mix, you can pick off any enemy in the air by using the same combo over and over again multiple times as well as following up with Angel Lift until the enemy is dead.

tl;dr version: JCing isn't needed anymore nor should it have been added to this game since Dante was programmed to stay in the air.

The 'enemies stalling in the air' thing could very well be there to compensate for the fact that the wind-up period for the attacks in DmC are not as quick as they are in DMC3/4. Some of DmC Dante's attacks would not hit the enemy if they didn't stall in the air due to the long start-up time of his attacks.

Anyway, combo videos of DmC wouldn't look impressive if it weren't for the jump cancelling so I guess they just put it there for stylish reasons and whatnot.

 

[aoshi]

Do it without Hold and see if it works, then I will believe you.
Otherwise, you aren't cancelling buster.

You are abusing the Hold tactic to stop the Buster throw from initiating.

Then we can't consider guard cancels as cancels. Its like cancelling million stab animation through guard cancel , follow it with million stabs, is not a cancel since you are using a guard input. Can't agree.

 

[ChaserTech]

The 'enemies stalling in the air' thing could very well be there to compensate for the fact that the wind-up period for the attacks in DmC are not as quick as they are in DMC3/4. Some of DmC Dante's attacks would not hit the enemy if they didn't stall in the air due to the long start-up time of his attacks.

I'm not sure about that honestly. Whenever an enemy gets hit in the air, they literally pause twice as long compared to the enemies in DMC4/DMC3. If you're curious, try out the demo and see how long the enemies stay in midair after you hit them.

Not only that but try to use a pause combo and wait at the last possible moment for you to use it in midair. You might need to get extremely high in order to not touch the ground when performing a pause combo at the latest possible moment. I am quite certain that they could have removed this entirely since the hitstun is good enough for DMC3/DMC4 styled Jump Cancels.

Anyway, combo videos of DmC wouldn't look impressive if it weren't for the jump cancelling so I guess they just put it there for stylish reasons and whatnot.

Style is based off of opinions. So just because you think something is stylish doesn't mean someone else would have the same thoughts. However I do see where you're coming from and I do believe that not having JCing would make the game a bit more unimpressive than I already think as of now.

Then we can't consider guard cancels as cancels. Its like cancelling million stab input through guard cancel , follow it with million stabs, is not a cancel since you are using a guard input. Can't agree.

That's... completely different.

When you use the Buster grab (the uppercut), you grab the enemy. You have to use Hold in order to hold the enemy in place and you are able to attack while you are using Hold. Guard cancels are completely different since you are cancelling animations rather than letting all of the animations happen, guarding, and doing it again. Same thing goes with Jump Cancelling since you initiated the jump, but cancelling the jump itself.

With the Buster grab, you are grabbing the enemy which either branches to:

- Holding the enemy
- Throwing the enemy.

And with certain enemies (Blitz and Alto Angelos) and all bosses, Hold won't work.
And by your definition, it's cannot be cancelled.

 

[aoshi]

Guard cancels are completely different since you are cancelling animations rather than letting all of the animations happen, guarding, and doing it again. Same thing goes with Jump Cancelling since you initiated the jump, but cancelling the jump itself.

That is wat a buster hold does. In case of guard cancel, simple block does it. In case of busters, Holding the buster button cancels the subsequent animations.

With the Buster grab, you are grabbing the enemy which either branches to:

- Holding the enemy
- Throwing the enemy.

Disagree. We still can use redqueen when an enemy is in grabbed state. We have the option of cancelling the following animation after grab using red queen attacks. Also holding enemies can act as a block or shield to nero.

And with certain enemies (Blitz and Alto Angelos) and all bosses, Hold won't work.
And by your definition, it's cannot be cancelled.

I think i covered that in the earlier post.

Ofcourse, except for enemies like blitz, angelos and bosses, we won't be able to cancel buster.

 

[Furious D]

Having watched parts of the High Frame Rate version of The Hobbit immediately after parts of the normal presentation, I actually sort of get the "slow" argument.

The speed of the movie had not changed, obviously, but somehow the 48fps Hobbit looked like it was playing in fast-forward. The high frame rate gave it the illusion of speed.

 

[DragonMaster2010]

To me, it depends on the player.

if you're the type of player who does JC up the ass and enemy steps mixed with weapon canceling and all that flashy crap, then this game is your kryptonite.

I really don't care about its slowness because the only reason people say it's slow is because it's compared to DMC3 and SMC4.

Last time I checked, why should I care about it's speed? I just wanna play it and have fun, not make it into a race for what's faster.

 

[ChaserTech]

That is wat a buster hold does. In case of guard cancel, simple block does it. In case of busters, Holding the buster button cancels the subsequent animations.

It's not a Buster Hold. It's just called Hold. It's not a Buster move.
Guard Cancelling stops you in the middle of an attack after it's initiated, during it's attack sequence.
You don't cancel the Buster uppercut at all, because you can't. Not unless you get hit in the middle of it.

But to tell you the truth, cancelling, I was specifically talking about using D.T. to cancel moves, in which using the Buster uppercut does not cancel when you D.T. it. He just transforms into his D.T.'d state. I wasn't talking about Buster throw** (dammit, too many edits) being uncancelled at all.

He doesn't uppercut, stops midway, and then attack.
He uppercuts, grabs the enemy, and Hold + Attack/Throw depending on what you do.

I'm not talking about the throw, I'm talking about the uppercut.
You cancel the throw but not the uppercut.

Disagree. We still can use redqueen when an enemy is in grabbed state. We have the option of cancelling the following animation after grab using red queen attacks. Also holding enemies can act as a block or shield to nero.

Again, that's a separate ability called Hold. Not Buster.

EDIT:

I really don't care about its slowness because the only reason people say it's slow is because it's compared to DMC3 and SMC4.

Despite the story, why call DMC4, SMC4?

Last time I checked, why should I care about it's speed? I just wanna play it and have fun, not make it into a race for what's faster.

Well, as you said before, it's all about the player's preference.

 

[aoshi]

It's not a Buster Hold. It's just called Hold. It's not a Buster move.

Uh....No. It works similar to a high time(rebellion) or high roller(red queen). With slight press of the buttons in such moves, enemies are only tossed in the air but dante and nero still stay on the ground. With a more significant press of the buttons, Dante and nero rise to the enemies in the air. Same can be said about max act streaks and streaks without exceed. Same goes for buster and hold. They are not entirely different but are linked to same inputs and have a different effect. The effect of hold is to cancel the buster by using either blue rose or red queen.

EDIT: I am explaining myself as how a max act streak and a streak without exceed is compared to buster and hold. Basic input for max act streak is the streak itself. It is explicitly mentioned in move list as how to execute a streak. But there is no move that lists a max act streak as a different move to a streak. A max act streak is an amplified streak. Similarly, the basic input to trigger a hold is buster. Only by triggering a buster, we can think about hold and use of red queen(or blue rose) to cancel subsequent throw animation. So a hold is linked(or triggered) through the buster. So hold is dependent on buster.

The only other significance of it(besides acting as a cancel to the throw) is its defensive ability of guarding nero. Else there is no significance of the hold to be treated as an independent move.

He doesn't uppercut, stops midway, and then attack.
He uppercuts, grabs the enemy, and Hold + Attack/Throw depending on what you do.

I'm not talking about the throw, I'm talking about the uppercut.
You cancel the throw but not the uppercut.

I don't split the buster animations into upper-cut followed by a throw. It is a single sequence. If they were split like agni and rudra's million slash(last strike can be cancelled), we would not have needed a hold in order to cancel the throw.

But to tell you the truth, cancelling, I was specifically talking about using D.T. to cancel moves, in which using the Buster uppercut does not cancel when you D.T. it. He just transforms into his D.T.'d state. I wasn't talking about Buster throw** (dammit, too many edits) being uncancelled at all.

EDIT: Sorry i missed this. I agree that DTing while buster or snatch does not cancel the buster but any and all attacks of redqueen are cancelled when DT is triggered.