Just curious, but does anyone still believe that silly "Nero being Vergils son" theory?
- Thread starter AlastorSword
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I agree completely on the age thing , but what if it is due to him unlocking his dt very young, and when he unlocks it firstly it consumes him and he can't control it and he kills people and rapes someone while DT'D with his dt pulling the strings?
other than that it isn't physically possible before at least the age of 12 or so to impregnate a girl
other than that it isn't physically possible before at least the age of 12 or so to impregnate a girl
That, and Vergil isn't the type to have sex with a human. Firstly, he doesn't want anything to do with humans, and secondly, he always wanted power and viewed anything less than fully demonic as weak. So why would he want a 3/4 human child (Nero)? Why would he want to saddle his son with the burden of a lack of power?
But then, Capcom's games don't always make sense, and Vergil might not necessarily hate humans. He did mention in DMC3 that it had been ''a year since they (Dante and Vergil) last met'', so... what if he had Nero in that period? What if he wanted more power because he wanted to ''protect'' someone?
I'm betting Capcom's just going to take the easy way out, and go with Bingo Morihashi's (DMC4 writer) idea that Nero is Vergil's son. In that case, if Vergil had Nero when he was 18, that would mean Dante is 37 in DMC4. He doesn't look like it, nor does Vergil in the DMC4 Special Edition from what I can tell... but whatever. And all the symbolism in DMC4 wouldn't really make sense, but Capcom's gonna do it anyway... I can smell it.
@Lord Nero: I agree that Vergil wouldn't want a child to be born with the disadvantage of being part human. But that really just means he is lying to himself when it comes to his views of power because Vergil knows he's half human himself. His own standards are flawed by that logic.
Only an arm should not be able to contain a soul. At least, it doesn't seem logical to me. Also, Nero's Devil Bringer is part of his normal Devil Trigger in the concept art. Aside from that, it's red and blue -- if it's Vergil, why isn't it just blue?
Nero heard a voice echo ''power. Give me more power.'' That's obviously Vergil, but I think what happened is:
Nero was attacked in Mitis Forest, where there was a demon outbreak according to the DMC4 booklet. His arm was scratched, and the Devil Bringer resulted from it. At that point, when his demonic power was triggered, he could hear Vergil cry out from inside the Yamato in Agnus's lab.
So I think the Devil Bringer is simply a Devil Trigger arm. Nero never got his own Devil Trigger because he never got hurt badly. When he finally *did* get hurt badly (in Agnus's lab), he asked for more power. The Yamato responded by lending him Vergil's soul as a Devil Trigger. That's why it's blue, too.
As for why Nero even has the Devil Bringer, beats me. Capcom originally wanted Dante to have it, so I guess it's just a gameplay gimmick that turned into a new character they originally didn't intend to create. The story was just supposed to be about Dante, which makes me sad. These plotholes could've been avoided so easily.
True, but that's also why he tried to get Sparda's power. He probably thought that if he could obtain his power, he would somehow become more fully demonic.
Honestly, Nero being Vergil's son... I can actually easily see it happening. It's just that all the references to Sparda in DMC4 and how much Nero is like him wouldn't really make sense.
That said, if Nero is Vergil's son, that doesn't necessarily make it impossible for him to have some part of Sparda within him. There's some references to Nero Angelo too, which is interesting, since Nero Angelo is a corrupted Vergil, made to resemble Sparda. His theme song is even called Ultraviolet, which is popularly interpreted as a kind of purple or combination of purple and blue.
Argh, DMC5, please clarify it all. I'll bet Capcom said ''haven't you figured it out yet?'' to keep us speculating until a big reveal in DMC5.
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The "theory" makes sense to me, especially since I usually factor in that Dante is half-demon and therefor probably ages slower or somethin', Idk.
Plus, it seems pretty clear that it was the intention for Nero to be Vergil's son from the get-go, even if some things don't exactly add up or make 100% sense.
(also, I don't know the timeline very well other then the order of the games and such, so my apologies if I'm wrong)
Plus, it seems pretty clear that it was the intention for Nero to be Vergil's son from the get-go, even if some things don't exactly add up or make 100% sense.
(also, I don't know the timeline very well other then the order of the games and such, so my apologies if I'm wrong)
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Im skeptical because even if he is Vergil's kid, i dont think Vergil would have left him to be raised by Sanctus as the DMC4 light novel stated (if its canon).
Vergil is more likely to raise him as his own a la Damian Wayne (which would have been better)rather than pawn him off to Sanctus.
You could always put a twist to it (which lead to some cool ideas).
Right now I think Nero's origins are whatever the next writer wants it to be since the game isn't forthcoming, the timeline isnt reflected in game (which makes it easy to ignore) and the light novel is obscure.
Hopefully the SE sheds some light.
Vergil is more likely to raise him as his own a la Damian Wayne (which would have been better)rather than pawn him off to Sanctus.
You could always put a twist to it (which lead to some cool ideas).
Right now I think Nero's origins are whatever the next writer wants it to be since the game isn't forthcoming, the timeline isnt reflected in game (which makes it easy to ignore) and the light novel is obscure.
Hopefully the SE sheds some light.
I believe it. There are plenty of reasons why it makes sense.
1. We don't know what happened to Vergil after he was separated from his brother the night his mother was killed. He could have gone anywhere, anything could have happened. He could have ended up on Fortuna. No one knows but Vergil.
2. Despite rumors, the ages of Dante, Vergil, or Nero have never been confirmed. Ever. So we can't say that Vergil was too young.
3. It gives room for character development for Vergil. Think of him like the Prodigal Son. Dante apparently has faith in his brother coming around to be a good guy, or he would have killed him right away. Why? Because character development. Every good story has it. And Vergil being a completely cold, calculating, making a baby "because he know he is gonna die" is like saying "Vergil knows he is weak in some aspect, so he made a back up plan". No Vergil would never say he is weak. Not even think he is weak enough to purposely make a baby in case he goofs up and gets himself killed. And Vergil is not cold enough to just impregnate a woman, then leave her. Why? Because there is no room for his character to grow. And if anyone can't see the Prodigal Son hints in Vergil from miles away, I don't know what you are lookin at.
4. Just because he hates humans doesn't mean he is in capable of having emotions. Even loving someone. This goes back to #1. We don't know what happened. Maybe he did love someone, that is where his whole might speech comes from. Maybe he was on Fortuna. Maybe he loved someone, maybe Sanctus betrayed him. That old codger, I assume, had been cooking up that whole demon and Savior scheme for awhile. You don't build a big stone mofo like the Savior overnight. Maybe Vergil had a lady, maybe that lady got a baby, maybe Sanctus used her as a hostage, telling Vergil he better behave and do what Sanctus says For his demon experiments or Vergil's lady and his baby get dead, maybe Vergil's DT hadn't awakened yet, maybe he agreed to save his lady and baby. Maybe Sanctus killed his lady anyways. Maybe she died in childbirth. Maybe Vergil's DT did awaken. Maybe he was imprisoned and he busted out. Maybe they hid his baby to use as a substitute in place of Vergil one day. Maybe Nero didn't show any signs of demonic power because he could be mostly human so they wiped his memory and dumped him somewhere in the woods thinking he wouldn't survive and he did, so they decided to keep an eye on him from afar to see if his power pops up later in life, while no one would suspect their evil plan, then they find out about Dante and plan to use Dante instead. Maybe Vergil thinks his baby is dead. Maybe he hates humans for betraying him. Maybe he wants revenge on humans for taking away his life. Maybe that's why he wants power, to carry out his revenge. Maybe he likes demons better because they don't lie about their evil plans but humans do. Maybe he wants to blow up humans for killing his family. Maybe he finds out his baby lived and is now a grown man. Maybe he is happy that his son is alive after all. Maybe he apologizes for his evil deeds in the name of revenge. Maybe he gives up his baddy ways to live in peace with his family again, with his brother, son and possible daughter-in-law, Kyrie. Maybe he will go back to the demon world to watch over it. Since there is currently no king since Mundus got dead and we can assume Vergil is the next most powerful demon to take the throne. Maybe he will watch over Hell to limit the number of demon attacks on the human world.
5. Prodigal son.
It's not impossible for Nero be Vergil's son. It's not impossible for any theory until we see it. But it really isn't that unbelievable. I think people think Vergil is more evil than he really is. Maybe he is just a hurt and angry little guy.
1. We don't know what happened to Vergil after he was separated from his brother the night his mother was killed. He could have gone anywhere, anything could have happened. He could have ended up on Fortuna. No one knows but Vergil.
2. Despite rumors, the ages of Dante, Vergil, or Nero have never been confirmed. Ever. So we can't say that Vergil was too young.
3. It gives room for character development for Vergil. Think of him like the Prodigal Son. Dante apparently has faith in his brother coming around to be a good guy, or he would have killed him right away. Why? Because character development. Every good story has it. And Vergil being a completely cold, calculating, making a baby "because he know he is gonna die" is like saying "Vergil knows he is weak in some aspect, so he made a back up plan". No Vergil would never say he is weak. Not even think he is weak enough to purposely make a baby in case he goofs up and gets himself killed. And Vergil is not cold enough to just impregnate a woman, then leave her. Why? Because there is no room for his character to grow. And if anyone can't see the Prodigal Son hints in Vergil from miles away, I don't know what you are lookin at.
4. Just because he hates humans doesn't mean he is in capable of having emotions. Even loving someone. This goes back to #1. We don't know what happened. Maybe he did love someone, that is where his whole might speech comes from. Maybe he was on Fortuna. Maybe he loved someone, maybe Sanctus betrayed him. That old codger, I assume, had been cooking up that whole demon and Savior scheme for awhile. You don't build a big stone mofo like the Savior overnight. Maybe Vergil had a lady, maybe that lady got a baby, maybe Sanctus used her as a hostage, telling Vergil he better behave and do what Sanctus says For his demon experiments or Vergil's lady and his baby get dead, maybe Vergil's DT hadn't awakened yet, maybe he agreed to save his lady and baby. Maybe Sanctus killed his lady anyways. Maybe she died in childbirth. Maybe Vergil's DT did awaken. Maybe he was imprisoned and he busted out. Maybe they hid his baby to use as a substitute in place of Vergil one day. Maybe Nero didn't show any signs of demonic power because he could be mostly human so they wiped his memory and dumped him somewhere in the woods thinking he wouldn't survive and he did, so they decided to keep an eye on him from afar to see if his power pops up later in life, while no one would suspect their evil plan, then they find out about Dante and plan to use Dante instead. Maybe Vergil thinks his baby is dead. Maybe he hates humans for betraying him. Maybe he wants revenge on humans for taking away his life. Maybe that's why he wants power, to carry out his revenge. Maybe he likes demons better because they don't lie about their evil plans but humans do. Maybe he wants to blow up humans for killing his family. Maybe he finds out his baby lived and is now a grown man. Maybe he is happy that his son is alive after all. Maybe he apologizes for his evil deeds in the name of revenge. Maybe he gives up his baddy ways to live in peace with his family again, with his brother, son and possible daughter-in-law, Kyrie. Maybe he will go back to the demon world to watch over it. Since there is currently no king since Mundus got dead and we can assume Vergil is the next most powerful demon to take the throne. Maybe he will watch over Hell to limit the number of demon attacks on the human world.
5. Prodigal son.
It's not impossible for Nero be Vergil's son. It's not impossible for any theory until we see it. But it really isn't that unbelievable. I think people think Vergil is more evil than he really is. Maybe he is just a hurt and angry little guy.
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I always like to think that the reason Vergil was so obsessed with power was more because of what happened to his mother. Like when he says "Might controls everything - and without strength, you cannot protect anything; let alone yourself.", that just gives me the impression that perhaps he wasn't just talking about Dante, but perhaps himself as well. Perhaps he felt weak because he wasn't able to protect his mother, and perhaps even Dante. Perhaps he came to believe that the reason he couldn't protect them, the reason that he was weak, was because part of him was still human. Perhaps he felt that the only way to protect the ones he cares about (i.e Dante) was to become as powerful as possible, even if this meant that he'd have to hurt his loved ones along the way (granted this is sorta counterproductive, but I never really got the impression that Vergil really wanted to kill Dante, even after stabbing him in their first battle, because honestly I think he knew that Dante would survive it).
Why else would he hold on so tightly to his piece of the amulet? If he truly despised his human half, then what was the point of not wanting to let go of it, even after it had fulfilled its purpose to him? I honestly think that he held onto it because it was the only thing he had left from his mother, who though he views as having been weak, he still loved and cared about her because she is his mother after-all, human or not. At the same time I feel that he wanted Dante's half of the amulet because he knew that Dante wasn't going to stay in the demon world, so he sorta wanted something to remember Dante by, I guess.
Vergil might appear to be a cold-hearted sob, but I truly think that most of the time it's just sorta a mask that he wears to hide his true feelings and emotions since he believes those emotions to be weak and therefor human, and he desires to not show any weakness. I think Vergil is capable of loving someone, even if they're human. I think he loved his mother, and he cared deeply about Dante, so why couldn't he love a human woman and have a child?
I don't know why he would leave said woman and child, but perhaps maybe he felt that they wouldn't be safe around him? Maybe something occurred that endangered their lives? Or maybe Vergil didn't believe that he was strong enough to protect them, thus refer back to the earlier quote. Perhaps he wasn't just talking about his mother and Dante, but perhaps also his "lover" and child? I honestly feel that people make Vergil much more cold-hearted than he really is, and I feel like he's greatly misunderstood, but that's just my opinion.
Why else would he hold on so tightly to his piece of the amulet? If he truly despised his human half, then what was the point of not wanting to let go of it, even after it had fulfilled its purpose to him? I honestly think that he held onto it because it was the only thing he had left from his mother, who though he views as having been weak, he still loved and cared about her because she is his mother after-all, human or not. At the same time I feel that he wanted Dante's half of the amulet because he knew that Dante wasn't going to stay in the demon world, so he sorta wanted something to remember Dante by, I guess.
Vergil might appear to be a cold-hearted sob, but I truly think that most of the time it's just sorta a mask that he wears to hide his true feelings and emotions since he believes those emotions to be weak and therefor human, and he desires to not show any weakness. I think Vergil is capable of loving someone, even if they're human. I think he loved his mother, and he cared deeply about Dante, so why couldn't he love a human woman and have a child?
I don't know why he would leave said woman and child, but perhaps maybe he felt that they wouldn't be safe around him? Maybe something occurred that endangered their lives? Or maybe Vergil didn't believe that he was strong enough to protect them, thus refer back to the earlier quote. Perhaps he wasn't just talking about his mother and Dante, but perhaps also his "lover" and child? I honestly feel that people make Vergil much more cold-hearted than he really is, and I feel like he's greatly misunderstood, but that's just my opinion.
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If Nero is ever confirmed to be Vergil's son, it'll sound like a nonsensical cop out to me on Capcom's part to just give some answer to the pointless walking plothole that is Nero.
Character development is not Capcom's strong point when it comes to Devil May Cry.
Vergil was about as lame and generic as villains come. All the character development and perception fans have of him are very much for the most part head canon. He never struck me as someone who'd bother with that stuff. He had a hard on for power and swords, not girls. Him finding someone he actually slept with getting her pregnant would totally be something that just comes out of nowhere. When and how would this have even happened?
Let's just put aside the fact that DMC 3 totally contradicts and retcons DMC 1. At the end of DMC 3, it sets up how Vergil allegedly became Mundus's b!tch in DMC 1. His story ends there. Vergil is dead and long gone. He doesn't defeat Mundus. I don't know why some people think Vergil can just be yanked out from somewhere and put back in the games like he's all fine and dandy. He's supposed to be dead. (again)
He would have had to have gotten some woman pregnant somewhere before the events of DMC 3, and I assume Nero is in his early 20s from his appearance. Was Dante like in his mid 40s in DMC 4? I don't think so. And what would that have made him in DMC 2? Like his 50s? I don't really see that. Dante ages normally so the age does show for him. Being half demon does't stop him from getting the human perks of aging.
I actually liked to think that Nero was some reincarnation of Sparda. From his color scheme to his relation to the Sparda lineage and ability to wield the weapons, that was something that made sense to me. Yamato was originally owned by Sparda, not Vergil. Plus, Sparda's stronger demonic influence from being the legit reincarnation of him could also explain his arm. Not saying I know how demon families work, but would being 1 quarter demon explain why his arm is sporting such a demonic deformity? Dante and Vergil never dealt with that stuff.
All in all though, I still find that not very compelling because it just goes to show how weak Capcom is when it comes to storytelling. They relate anything and everything back to Sparda and it just makes the whole Devil May Cry world feel smaller. Everything is basically about him. Does Dante always have to live in his father's shadow?
Character development is not Capcom's strong point when it comes to Devil May Cry.
Vergil was about as lame and generic as villains come. All the character development and perception fans have of him are very much for the most part head canon. He never struck me as someone who'd bother with that stuff. He had a hard on for power and swords, not girls. Him finding someone he actually slept with getting her pregnant would totally be something that just comes out of nowhere. When and how would this have even happened?
Let's just put aside the fact that DMC 3 totally contradicts and retcons DMC 1. At the end of DMC 3, it sets up how Vergil allegedly became Mundus's b!tch in DMC 1. His story ends there. Vergil is dead and long gone. He doesn't defeat Mundus. I don't know why some people think Vergil can just be yanked out from somewhere and put back in the games like he's all fine and dandy. He's supposed to be dead. (again)
He would have had to have gotten some woman pregnant somewhere before the events of DMC 3, and I assume Nero is in his early 20s from his appearance. Was Dante like in his mid 40s in DMC 4? I don't think so. And what would that have made him in DMC 2? Like his 50s? I don't really see that. Dante ages normally so the age does show for him. Being half demon does't stop him from getting the human perks of aging.
I actually liked to think that Nero was some reincarnation of Sparda. From his color scheme to his relation to the Sparda lineage and ability to wield the weapons, that was something that made sense to me. Yamato was originally owned by Sparda, not Vergil. Plus, Sparda's stronger demonic influence from being the legit reincarnation of him could also explain his arm. Not saying I know how demon families work, but would being 1 quarter demon explain why his arm is sporting such a demonic deformity? Dante and Vergil never dealt with that stuff.
All in all though, I still find that not very compelling because it just goes to show how weak Capcom is when it comes to storytelling. They relate anything and everything back to Sparda and it just makes the whole Devil May Cry world feel smaller. Everything is basically about him. Does Dante always have to live in his father's shadow?
I like your thoughts, except for one thing: Vergil wanted Dante's amulet just because it was an indispensable tool for his plan, not to remember his brother.
I like to think it does, since demons age slower and Dante is half-demon, so therefore he would probably age slower than a normal human, but maybe not as slowly as a full demon. Plus, we don't really know how the whole half-demon thing works, so it's possible.
I thought that was just Sparda itself and that the amulets acted as the keys needed to obtain Sparda or somethin'? I don't remember, to be honest.
2 halves of the amulet + Force Edge indeed equals Sparda sword, amulets with blood of Sparda unlocks the gate to Demon world.
Though I see some people are still confused about this, I gather because of the scene in first DMC where Dante lays his amulet on chest of seemingly dead Trish and then stabs Sparda into the ground next to her, thus making it look like amulet can exist independently of the sword.
Thanks, I had a feeling I was forgetting something, and it was such an important part story-wise as well.
I liked what you said but my only issue is that reincarnation would he coming out of nowhere too. No one else has ever been reincarned, so why would Sparda? Would he continue to be reincarnated forever? And deformities do happen. Nero'a arm could be a deformity from diluted demonic blood. It happens or maybe even a genetic anomaly, like having one blue eye and one brown eye is in some animals. Can't be predicted, just happens. But I wouldn't mind this idea either. And I don't think Vergil was ever confirmed to be dead in DMC -. He just kind of poofed. But correct me if I am wrong.
I don't recall it ever being officially confirmed, but most people believe that he died. I can't remember the exact reasons why, but apparently one of them was that the same sound effect that is used in DMC when Mundus kills one of his own minions is used when Nero Angelo is defeated in the third battle. I could easily be wrong, though.