Is Vergil good or evil in DMC3? And Why?

[berto]

Are you sure you've played the game ? i don't think so :ermm: the game gives you a fine idea of of the Edo era idk if its historically accurate but the samurai tradition,philosophy and ideologies are very much intact from movies like The last Samurai and anime like Rurouni kenshin(that is if you even consider them as a credible source)

RoKen is a great place to learn about the history of Japan during that time, not sure about the Last Samurai, but make no mistake Kenshin is most certainly not an accurate representation of samurai, unless you really think that all samurai are goofy and go around saying 'oro.' If anyone is more indicative of samurai it'd be Saito. Saito is brutal and merciless and he's killed more people than even Kenshin has as an assassin. Even so, they were both brutal during the war and innocent or not their goals were not against killing if their believes allowed it. You think Saito wouldn't kill a chicken if it got in his way?

After all in which game are you are poor wandering samurai with no superpowers who can choose to do good or bad things ?

But Kenshin does have super powers, It is impossible for any real human to do what he does, just look at the two most powerful moves in the Hiten Mitsurugi style.

Then why do you think he would do that to vergil who he has personal relations with ? he didn't try to violently assault any human cult member instead only killed the mindless freaks and even resisted nero because he wasn't a mindless freak that proves his generosity(albeit cocky but still generous).

Because Vergil is evil. His actions prove it, don't they?

I have a brother whom often i used to get in fights with when i was young and the next day we both would be together like nothing happened.

You're brother might be an a$$hole in your eyes, I know mine is, but he isn't evil, is he?

I hardly doubt that dante was thinking "VERGIL I'm SOO GONNA KILL YOU" instead he was more like " WTF are you doing ? i'll beat you to show that you're wrong!'.

Oh? And what exactly did you think Dante was going to do if he won? Teach Vergil the true meaning of Christmas? You think that every bullet he shot at his brother was going just for show? That every time he swung his sword at him he was using the flat side?

Remember this is your theory.. its not even implied in the games

What do you mean it wasn't even implied? He pulled a gun on him! That sends a pretty clear statement of intention. Granted, they both suffer from sturdy builds and bullets would provably only slow them down but the intent to harm is pretty clear. Remember the second fight? They were slicing each other apart.

You are right, though, a lot of this is just my observations and conclusions from said observations. I see it differently from you and you from I. We can agree that he is evil but I think that is as far as this will go.

Besides WTF is your logic as long as you don't have a sense of empathy you'e a honorable person ?? BULLSH!T that's a person with psychopathic disorder !

Old. An old sense of logic. Warriors have behaved like Vergil long before this era, it's called progress, what was true then has changed but warriors like Vergil existed long ago in many different places. The difference, historically, between the psychos and the heroes was determined by the winner. Vergil is simply out of time.



... Welp, I've done it again. I've gone and made another string of long responses with quotes and debating a point that provably isn't worth debating, what with there been more important things to be done. I said I wasn't going to respond and I've gone and done it.

Ok, I'm leaving this thread, I've said enough. You are more than welcome to respond but I won't be reading it since all it will do is tempt me to respond with and prolong this debate. Sorry. Feel free to call victory or whatever you might, it's for the best to end it here.


... And to think... We could have all been reading a book this whole time.

 

[ROCKMAN X]

RoKen is a great place to learn about the history of Japan during that time

Actual History is irrelevant to this argument anyway.

But Kenshin does have super powers,

I was talking about The GAME "Way of Samurai" you clearly HAVE NOT played the game.

Oh? And what exactly did you think Dante was going to do if he won?

The same thing he did with Nero try to talk him out or better yet just knock him unconscious and destroy the tower THE END.

You think that every bullet he shot at his brother was going just for show? That every time he swung his sword at him he was using the flat side?

same goes for NeroVsDante battle i might add.

What do you mean it wasn't even implied?

The theory about vergil's psychological profile you just finished writing. like this > "Old. An old sense of logic. Warriors have behaved like Vergil long before this era,it's called progress, what was true then has changed but warriors like Vergil existed long ago in many different places. The difference, historically, between the psychos and the heroes was determined by the winner. Vergil is simply out of time"

Besides your moral justifications are just bullsh!t anyway i wouldn't want a person like you to be a judge.

And to think... We could have all been reading a book this whole time.

And to think... instead of vergil fanboy drivel you could have actually made legit point :ermm:

 

[Chancey289]

Vergil isn't honorable and he is pretty far from the chivalry/bushido thing he allegedly sports.

A hard on for swords does not mean anything. He just prefers swords. Seriously, why are so many people going so far to defend this douchebag who views the population as expendable if it means raising his power level?

Vergil could have been something so much more if they actually decided to invest in character development and proper story telling. Instead they take the cheapest way out with his character with the polar opposite evil sibling trope and doing freaking nothing with it. They didn't raise the bar or try anything unique. The only thing they raised is the speculation whether or not the dude writing this game like had a Inuyasha marathon the night before or something.

 

[ROCKMAN X]

Seriously, why are so many people going so far to defend this douchebag who views the population as expendable if it means raising his power level?

Hush ! say no more about my most fav character ever made in video game history ! :troll:

 

[Lionheart]

''Again couldnt agree more with this on all five points vergil was evil..to a point..i dont believe he was totally evil because he didnt go out of his own way to cause evil, pain or destruction but if you were in his way you would die.''

So... that's still prety evil to me. Really, killing people because they're in your way? I don't care what his messed up reasons are, he's still evil. And like I said before: I don't know if Vergil ever sat down and thought: ''What I'm doing is not justified, but I don't care''. He very well might have. He doesn't strike me as insane, just as selfish. He would ask Dante why he cares about the humans, and why he doesn't just let them die. Seems like a Vergil thing to do, and it's rational and evil.

 

[MephistoCarnival]

Vergil isn't honorable and he is pretty far from the chivalry/bushido thing he allegedly sports.

A hard on for swords does not mean anything. He just prefers swords. Seriously, why are so many people going so far to defend this douchebag who views the population as expendable if it means raising his power level?

Vergil could have been something so much more if they actually decided to invest in character development and proper story telling. Instead they take the cheapest way out with his character with the polar opposite evil sibling trope and doing freaking nothing with it. They didn't raise the bar or try anything unique. The only thing they raised is the speculation whether or not the dude writing this game like had a Inuyasha marathon the night before or something.

Characters with no flaws are so overrated.Those tragical ones which may prove to be in fact the most honorable ones.
If you were reffering to the fact he has no honour you're right somehow,he had honour from his point of view.Not honour in the true sense of the word.

I can like a character with not so much backstory or a character with not too much to say simply for the fact some may like his attitude mostly,either his design,his way of fighting for example and so on.
You don't have to like a character from a lot of points of view and what I mostly see is that people usually get attached to those characters which usually don't show much,mysterious ones,which have a different attitude from the hero of the story because that let's them expand the character themselves and may be find one flaw or too within the anti-hero and make them wonder : Why is that character like that? What if..? What they think..? but this is more a writer's method.

It's usually in the human nature to find evil/flaws more relatable and easy to understand and more alluring.

And I swear that Inuyasha reference,how long are we gonna bring that up? People enjoyed DMC3 without even knowing of Inuyasha and whoever did,who gave a flying fu** about that?
DmC also looks like Prototype and I don't have any problem with it.
It's not bad to have a reference as long as you add some creative stuff yourself and make it your way.

 

[MephistoCarnival]

And Dante would've provably done the same.

I'd actually like to quote this.
Vergil was the one who had a plan,Dante was the one who tried to destroy his plan.Having different mentalities,this led to a fight.
Of course,neither of them would have argued as why it's wrong and what should be right because as we can also see in DmC this led to nowhere other than a fight between them too.
Dante was getting into Vergil's plans as we can remember he was the first one to point a gun at him,thus we can say Vergil was self-defending himself by doing the same,Dante is the one who got into his plan thrice because it was the humanity's fate in this,even if it meant killing one of them at least one was going to win.

I wouldn't call it evilness but more self-defending,each one having a specific goal.
The fight wasn't for the sake of evilness so Vergil can prove he's the most evil of them all,but it was a self-defending and getting rid of everything that gets in his way.

 

[Chancey289]

I'm fine with taking inspiration from things because that's just fiction. Fiction always tends to feed on itself. Thing is like I also said, they did really nothing with it. It wasn't really creative or unique. DMC has always done its cliches and generic trite trends and tropes to death. :/

And like I said before as well, Vergil can be a great character and good character study but, he isn't. He's very cliche and generic.

I've always been a pretty big character guy. The plot of something can like totally suck but, if you have that really cool and compelling character it can also still make it worth my time. Vergil was never compelling because not only does his existence in 3 like contradict everything I knew before but he is just so typical, one dimensional, and boring.

DmC's version of Vergil actually gives us more to talk about. He's got more character. More depth. He isn't just that cliche saturday morning cartoon villain. And Vergil's Downfall actually sets up a better reason for him to be the kind of character he is in 3 with that whole meta physical struggle of cutting all his emotional ties.

I think fan's interpretations of DMC's characters make them rose tint them to extremes. That's fine and all because my imagination creates a better Dante than the games ever gave me but, I also remember I'm doing this because Capcom doesn't create a great character and the development starts and ends with nothing but simple generic cliches and tropes. :ermm:

(And how does DmC look like Prototype? Prototype can be compared more to Infamous than anything else.)

 

[MephistoCarnival]

I'm fine with taking inspiration from things because that's just fiction. Fiction always tends to feed on itself. Thing is like I also said, they did really nothing with it. It wasn't really creative or unique. DMC has always done its cliches and generic trite trends and tropes to death. :/

And like I said before as well, Vergil can be a great character and good character study but, he isn't. He's very cliche and generic.

I've always been a pretty big character guy. The plot of something can like totally suck but, if you have that really cool and compelling character it can also still make it worth my time. Vergil was never compelling because not only does his existence in 3 like contradict everything I knew before but he is just so typical, one dimensional, and boring.

DmC's version of Vergil actually gives us more to talk about. He's got more character. More depth. He isn't just that cliche saturday morning cartoon villain. And Vergil's Downfall actually sets up a better reason for him to be the kind of character he is in 3 with that whole meta physical struggle of cutting all his emotional ties.

I think fan's interpretations of DMC's characters make them rose tint them to extremes. That's fine and all because my imagination creates a better Dante than the games ever gave me but, I also remember I'm doing this because Capcom doesn't create a great character and the development starts and ends with nothing but simple generic cliches and tropes. :ermm:

(And how does DmC look like Prototype? Prototype can be compared more to Infamous than anything else.)

I understand where you're actually going and I agree.
(Oh,the first trailer gave me a prototype feeling when I first saw it)
We've come in an age where nothing is original anymore,everything is a combination of what has been done before but with its own addings.Even the greatest writers,producers and so on were inspired by someone or something,and they admited it.But as long people liked it nobody said a word,good,you enjoy that thing,then don't be hateful saying how it was a rip-off (many say this term without actually knowing what it means) just to annoy others. Why can't people just go over it,enjoy that thing,because their petite critics just won't do any good and keep them to themselves.

I don't say DMC3 Vergil has depth,I thought about him from other perspective.He doesn't and I'm well aware of that,I happened to enjoy him in DMC3 back in those days,I have the right of liking a character and I'm also aware that isn't the greatest one but in my head I can make him more awesome.I happen to be a lover of fanfiction, as someone from a magazine said : "The writers write it and put it up online just for the satisfaction. They’re fans, but they’re not silent, couchbound consumers of media. The culture talks to them, and they talk back to the culture in its own language." and I like to give those characters I like some more depth and back story and such,I like to expand them myself somehow.

I'd be more than happy for Capcom to make a game about Vergil where they explain more and give us more insight into his thoughts him being the silent type of character and some twists there and there,but I know the chances for that aren't too big and I'm being delusional.

My only disappointment with DmC's version of Vergil is that they made him a little bit too weak,I don't reffer physically but I wish they were to add a little more seriousity or coldness the old Vergil had,not to make him a boring character but to make him more of a challenge for Dante,somewhat of a brutal and skilled with the sword like classic Vergil then I'd have been fully satisfied with it. Just like they made Dante similar to classic Dante the only difference being the environment which made their behaviour work a little bit differently.
Downfall was really good,and we see an freshly new evil Vergil and that makes me happy as I said above, I expect that.

Yes,I can relate to what you say. I've always made up my own version of Dante that is close to DMC1 Dante and I've made a good amount of scenarios in my head and possible ideas for future games and adventures,I'm that much of a geek in this aspect,I can't help it.There's nothing wrong in taking characters and give them your own ideas and such but what is a disappointment is the fact that aren't many chances in getting what you truly want because money speaks more in our days then making people and fans happy and people who are dedicate to make something good for others as a gratitude,sadly.

 

[EnJ]

And I repeat. You think about the characters in this game too seriously. DMC 3 absolutely not that type of the game where you should find deep characters development. If you want some sad personalities and tragic stories play MGS series. (sniper wolf story was realy tragic...and Otacon :'()

For those who wondering why everyone like Vergil. People like Dante. Vergil his twin + that sad ending.

And he is really cool villian in my opinion. I played a lot of different games and he is a one of the most cool loking villians. He doesn't speak a lot about how "GODLIKE AND POWERED" he is and how he will "DESTROY AND ENSLAVE EVERYTHING" he's, just do his work...quietly and with pathos. (dat opening cutscene, dat Beowulf cutscene, dat ending cutscene) Yeah, DmC Vergil has more depth but ffs, he is coward and moaner, it's seems miserably.

And about the thread. Vergil is evil, it's obviously. Doesn't care about anything or anyone except himself. It's not good behavior i guess. So he is evil...cool evil halfdemon.

So, keep calm and love Vergil.

 

[VOLPE]

And I repeat. You think about the characters in this game too seriously. DMC 3 absolutely not that type of the game where you should find deep characters development. If you want some sad personalities and tragic stories play MGS series. (sniper wolf story was realy tragic...and Otacon :'()

For those who wondering why everyone like Vergil. People like Dante. Vergil his twin + that sad ending.

And he is really cool villian in my opinion. I played a lot of different games and he is a one of the most cool loking villians. He doesn't speak a lot about how "GODLIKE AND POWERED" and how he will "DESTROY AND ENSLAVE EVERYTHING" he's, just do his work...quietly and with pathos. (dat opening cutscene, dat Beowulf cutscene, dat ending cutscene) Yeah, DmC Vergil has more depth but ffs, he is coward and moaner, it's seems miserably.

And about the thread. Vergil is evil, it's obviously. Doesn't care about anything except himself. It's not good behavior i guess. So he is evil...cool evil halfdemon.

So, keep calm and like Vergil.

But thats the point there are people out there who play games to think about and take the characters seriously how many people on this world have been inspired by characters in video games and anime those ppl look to the characters in the games or shows and take them seriously they want a back story that make sense they want the character to be well protrayed and above all make sense lol me personally gameplay is a must but characters are a close second those and in third graphics those three things above all make a game

 

[Chancey289]

Ok, what just happened?

We're analyzing Vergil and supposed to be giving him a legit character study in this thread and for actually contributing to that and pointing out weak his arc actually is it's now taking it too seriously? I know what I'm getting when I play DMC and I won't spend time worrying too much about the characters in here but, that doesn't stop me from criticizing it when it's brought up.

I don't expect DMC to give me the same type of story telling MGS gives me. Hideo Kojima is a mad genius and I don't think anyone at Capcom is as good as Kojima is in that regard. Kojima is crazy in a good way. (even if the dude can talk for hours and say nothing ) MGS is like my favorite video game franchise because of his batsh!t insane mind.

And don't get me wrong, I love campy and cheesy sh!t and I can definitely dig pretty cliche characters because guess what's like some of my favorite movies and my favorite trilogy of all freaking time, *ahem*

DMC also just never did the campy cliche stuff well though. Except really in the first game. DMC 3 (even though I love playing the game) kind of messed up Dante and turned him in to some dork who thought he was way cooler than he actually was. I wanted to slap him in the face. He was pretty annoying. DMC 1's Dante will always be my favorite.

Overall, I can understand the context and intention behind certain characters but, I'll also point out when it doesn't do it right. DMC 3 didn't do it for me. I didn't like how the characters just became these overplayed uninteresting anime characters.

 

[Lionheart]

DMC has always been anime-like. I don't feel DMC3 is way worse than DMC1 in that regard. I suppose DMC1 even has more anime-like writing. And now Vergil's Downfall is cartoon-like. And a very badly drawn one at that. Ask yourself which is worse - I'm not sure myself.

As for Vergil, well, I don't like his DmC self at all. I wouldn't even call him Vergil. He's mainly annoying to me, and I don't care to find out annoying, bland characters' background stories.

 

[ROCKMAN X]

DMC has always been anime-like. I don't feel DMC3 is way worse than DMC1 in that regard. I suppose DMC1 even has more anime-like writing. And now Vergil's Downfall is cartoon-like. And a very badly drawn one at that. Ask yourself which is worse - I'm not sure myself.

True that... BUT you do know that Anime is very very diverse ??

As in DMC 1 gives vibes of animes like Hellsing and Berserk and DMC 3 gives vibes of animes like Inuyasha and Naruto.

 

[TerrorA]

True that... BUT you do know that Anime is very very diverse ??

As in DMC 1 gives vibes of animes like Hellsing and Berserk and DMC 3 gives vibes of animes like Inuyasha and Naruto

So, it went from Seinen to Shonen? Like a reverse JJBA?

 

[ROCKMAN X]

So, it went from Seinen to Shonen? Like a reverse JJBA?

Exactly and DmC is like a 13 yr old punkish version of DMC3 nothing to do with awesome DMC1.

 

[TerrorA]

Exactly and DmC is like a 13 yr old punkish version of DMC3 nothing to do with awesome DMC1.

.....I'm not touching that one with a Giga Drill

 

[ROCKMAN X]

.....I'm not touching that one with a Giga Drill

Its not a bad game as long as you can ignore the story and the main character the gameplay is kinda fun.

 

[MephistoCarnival]

DMC has always been anime-like. I don't feel DMC3 is way worse than DMC1 in that regard. I suppose DMC1 even has more anime-like writing. And now Vergil's Downfall is cartoon-like. And a very badly drawn one at that. Ask yourself which is worse - I'm not sure myself.

As for Vergil, well, I don't like his DmC self at all. I wouldn't even call him Vergil. He's mainly annoying to me, and I don't care to find out annoying, bland characters' background stories.

But,I don't see anything wrong in a game being like an anime or like a cartoon,many games are similar in this aspect and can be entertaining.They ARE related in some way if you think about it.
There are no real actors,the story is in most cases isn't related to the reality or if they are they're something unique,the characters,places and the designs in general,are drawn,the exception being that in our days the graphics improved to the point they look like real people,but there are also cartoons/animes who are pretty fascinating themselves and have a beautiful animation.
The only difference between them is that you play a video game and you watch an anime/cartoon,that's it.

I share your opinion. I myself don't like DmC Vergil.
Not for the fact he isn't a character with no depth,because he has depth and development,but for the fact I don't like him,it's like when you know a person is all amazing and such but you can't simply get to like him/her. That's what I also feel with DmC Vergil at some point.

 

[Lionheart]

But,I don't see anything wrong in a game being like an anime or like a cartoon,many games are similar in this aspect and can be entertaining.They ARE related in some way if you think about it.
There are no real actors,the story is in most cases isn't related to the reality or if they are they're something unique,the characters,places and the designs in general,are drawn,the exception being that in our days the graphics improved to the point they look like real people,but there are also cartoons/animes who are pretty fascinating themselves and have a beautiful animation.
The only difference between them is that you play a video game and you watch an anime/cartoon,that's it.

I share your opinion. I myself don't like DmC Vergil.
Not for the fact he isn't a character with no depth,because he has depth and development,but for the fact I don't like him,it's like when you know a person is all amazing and such but you can't simply get to like him/her. That's what I also feel with DmC Vergil at some point.

I feel the same way. I was just responding to some people who seem to take offense to DMC3 being anime-like. I actually like that, and I feel that we have enough 'realistic' games as it is. If I have to choose between obnoxious realistic characters and a contrived plot, and a game that plays out as manga, I'll take the latter.
And yeah, I feel the same about Vergil. The moment I saw him in a trailer talking to Dante, I just thought: ''Nope''. Just like with DmC Dante. I have to like characters or genuinely hate them before I can care about what happens to them. With DmC, it was just a case of bad characterization.