Is Vergil good or evil in DMC3? And Why?

[Gel]

It seems so, but I can't avoid it . But it's what people are waiting for if asking about evil and good in a character .

 

[Loopy]

It seems to me that you all go into way to deep analysis of characters from the game where they rides rockets and vertical walls on motorcycle, catch bullets by teeth and fight with guitar what can launch bats,.

Maybe it is too deep, but it's fun to do that kind of thing. If we couldn't have discussions like this about the characters, then I think DMC has failed in some way by not giving characters interesting enough to discuss, theorise and speculate about.

It's just the same as people talking about comic characters or cartoon characters. The Adventure Time forums go into some really deep discussions, and that cartoon is supposed to be for children.

 

[VOLPE]

I don't even know why this debate is going on this long. Vergil in 3 couldn't fill a more generic spot in the cast and he is a very simple character. He doesn't have much depth at all. He's a power hungry selfish douchebag. He doesn't give a sh!t about the people that will die. Just about gaining more power. He's like a freaking saturday morning cartoon villain. Gaining power and practically destroying the world then.......?????? I don't see why he's so popular. He's a weak and boring villain.

DmC's Vergil is soooo much better than the original. He has more character and personality. He also looks cooler. Vergil in 3 looked like some silly pirate or something.

DmC Vergil > DMC Vergil hands down.

DmC Vergil also gives us more to talk about. We're just gonna keep talking in circles here.

wow i find it really sad that you honestly think this lol but i guess everyone has their own opinion. vergil is anything but simple and the fact that you call him a simple generic character actually makes me pity you. while i agree that vergil doesnt care about other people affected by his actions and while i agree that he is evil to a point and while i also agree that dmc3 could have been more indepth i dont believe at all that he is what you have described him here. when it comes to dmc3 vergil you have to look past the actions and see past them to see the methods and the reasoning you have to stop accepting the surface and look deeper. this all started because his mother was killed and he wants revenge and he is using his fathers power to do it. now while putting the rest of the world at risk isnt the way to do it this lust for power was born from love, loss, regret, and revenge emotions that are not easyily dismissed. vergil is anything but boring and weak btw he's one of the best villians in dmc history the fact that you obviously dont appreciate that is once again sad but again i repect your opinion

 

[ROCKMAN X]

Like I said, way to oversimplify.

Are we talking about DmC or DMC ? because in the latter case the word "Oversimplify" doesn't apply DMC has a fairly simple story with simple characters.

but people keep dismissing his actions as ether selfish or greedy, why?

So you also wouldn't consider me selfish in a life threatening situation where i refuse to give you food and have it all for myself ? because clearly vergil was so selfish that he didn't give 2 craps about humans how much more selfish is he ? nothing just almost killed his brother just to get one stupid amulet.

You were shown his motivatios for his actions in DMC3 and call the excuses and lies.

Well if i were to kill you with a false pretext of me being weaker and lacking self confidence would you consider that justified ? that's the kind of justification vergil has

People who were once victimized become one of two things, they ether continue to become victims or they become vitimizers

Geez this is not silent hill 2 we're talking about -_- we're talking about an action game with DBZ styled characters.

But I dissagree with you're statement that DmC's version of Vergil is more intresting as he goes from been a samurai, in a very classical way, to a computer nerd who obviously doesn't know how hold a sword and is more often than not just there to make Dante cooler by comparison.

I can agree with that this version of vergil was a little too soft he needed that extra bit of arrogance DMC 3 vergil had but other than that he's completely superior in terms of character development.

DMC 3 vergil is like a classic video game boss which you only see in like Level 10,DmC vergil is more like movie/novel character.

Add to that his really uninteresting choise of vocabulary

At least he has some lines DMC 3 vergil hardly had any.

 

[Chancey289]

fanatic word puke

Lol. Wow.

You people rose tint these characters to some major extremes. Vergil could be something so much more but, he is not. I love this series just as much as the next fan but, I know DMC has always been pretty terrible at character development and story telling. Dante and Vergil in DMC 3 is practically Inuyasha and his bro. He is one dimensional and boring and again, very generic. This entire plot aspect is also just a very trite and rather formulaic trend.

DMC 3 still totally contradicts the original canon anyway so all this sh!t and 3 shouldn't have even happened but whatever.

You could explore and show a lot of things you mention but, he's NOT A WELL DEVELOPED CHARACTER. He doesn't ever freaking do any of that. He's a generic 1 dimensional cliche anime villain. Seriously, it's not well done at all. I've seen so many better villains in fiction. So many different aspects to a character to show how much tragedy can make a person walk that line between good and evil and also put it well in to perspective the stuff they do. Have you ever played like any of the Metal Gear Solid games for example?

Capcom can't do this for the life of them. I bet Capcom has a book of trite trends and cliche tropes with a worn out spine held together by staplers.

 

[VOLPE]

Lol. Wow.

You people rose tint these characters to some major extremes. Vergil could be something so much more but, he is not. I love this series just as much as the next fan but, I know DMC has always been pretty terrible at character development and story telling. Dante and Vergil in DMC 3 is practically Inuyasha and his bro. He is one dimensional and boring and again, very generic. This entire plot aspect is also just a very trite and rather formulaic trend.

DMC 3 still totally contradicts the original canon anyway so all this sh!t and 3 shouldn't have even happened but whatever.

You could explore and show a lot of things you mention but, he's NOT A WELL DEVELOPED CHARACTER. He doesn't ever freaking do any of that. He's a generic 1 dimensional cliche anime villain. Seriously, it's not well done at all. I've seen so many better villains in fiction. So many different aspects to a character to show how much tragedy can make a person walk that line between good and evil and also put it well in to perspective the stuff they do. Have you ever played like any of the Metal Gear Solid games for example?

Capcom can't do this for the life of them. I bet Capcom has a book of trite trends and cliche tropes with a worn out spine held together by staplers.

And thats your opinion and your entitled to it no one's denying that i just find it sad that you actually believe that

 

[D-Sparda]

> He is selfish and wants power but doesn't want to share it with others.

He may have implied in his conversation with Dante on the top of Temen-ni-gru that he was willing to share the power.

"Why do you refuse to gain power? The power of our father, Sparda."

Either he was talking about their father's sword, which is the object carrying most of his power, or perhaps he was simply questioning Dante's reasons for not rising to the occasion of flourishing a Devil Trigger after all these years.

 

[ROCKMAN X]

He may have implied in his conversation with Dante on the top of Temen-ni-gru that he was willing to share the power.

Is that the reason why he treats Arkham like trash and wants sparda's power all for himself instead of sharing it with dante ?

perhaps he was simply questioning Dante's reasons for not rising to the occasion of flourishing a Devil Trigger after all these years.

he just was asking why he doesn't seek power like him and why he prefers to be a lazy person who does nothing but eats pizza and read magazines.

 

[berto]

Are we talking about DmC or DMC ? because in the latter case the word "Oversimplify" doesn't apply DMC has a fairly simple story with simple characters.

No, they don't, even DMC1 had a deeper story and characters that the games let on, the issue was that they didn't show much of it. All DMC games, even DMC2, were made with very interesting stories that weren't fully portrayed in the games, whether it was budget, time, or other restrictions they just didn't show the full story of each game. In DMC1 Dante was actually a lot more scared, angry, and emotional than he let on, he had very contrasting emotions towards Trish and he had a lot of issues regarding his father and how he viewed him.

So you also wouldn't consider me selfish in a life threatening situation where i refuse to give you food and have it all for myself ? because clearly vergil was so selfish that he didn't give 2 craps about humans how much more selfish is he ? nothing just almost killed his brother just to get one stupid amulet.

Most species don't. Vergil doesn't consider himself human so like the lion who doesn't see the gazelle as it's equal or the shark that doesn't see the seal as his Vergil doesn't consider himself human and has no attachment to us as such. So, no, selfish is the wrong word for it.

It's not a stupid amulet, now, is it? It's the key to his ambitions. As to why he'd beat his brother to death for it I already addressed that.

Well if i were to kill you with a false pretext of me being weaker and lacking self confidence would you consider that justified ? that's the kind of justification vergil has

Actually, in Vergil's case that isn't that strange a thing to do or say. I already said, Vergil is a lot of things but he is not a liar. If you said that, that you wanted to kill me because you consider me weak, I would definitely say you're using false pretext because you don't have any sense of warrior's honor, it's not something you see very often, Vergil does, he is a samurai in most every sense of the word, you are not.

Geez this is not silent hill 2 we're talking about -_- we're talking about an action game with DBZ styled characters.

Just because it isn't SH2 doesn't mean it lacks any depth, just because it's an action game doesn't mean it's shallow, that sorta stereotypical labeling and dismissal is why people don't give things of this nature stock, it diminishes the labor that goes into the work and the thought that went in to it's creation. I get it, though. Like I said, the story of the games are much more interesting a better developed than the games lead on. There is more to the stories and characters in the games but it's hard to see if the only source you've got to go on is the games.

Also, it's not Dragon Ball, it's Versus. Has no one here ever watch a Ryuhei Takamura movie!!!??? No one ever seen Versus or Aragami!? GOD!!

I can agree with that this version of vergil was a little too soft he needed that extra bit of arrogance DMC 3 vergil had but other than that he's completely superior in terms of character development.

I don't think that's true, namely because DmC Vergil's didn't have any development in the game. DMC3's might've had around a minute or so of development so lets just say that he didn't ether since it'd be more nitpicking than anything.

Anyway, Vergil didn't have anything in DmC that resembled development so I'll just assume that we are talking about the DLC. As for personal opinions go I still don't find him that interesting a character as the original was, he's not even as interesting as Gilver, he is pretty much a wiener all the way to the end.

DMC 3 vergil is like a classic video game boss which you only see in like Level 10,DmC vergil is more like movie/novel character.

Well... It kinda is a video game... and I know, DmC was meant to be more closely related to a movie or a book than the originals but I always thought that DmC had the writing quality of a ScyFi original movie.

At least he has some lines DMC 3 vergil hardly had any.

Really? I remember Vergil talking a lot in DMC3. Maybe not as much as in DmC but two hours of cutscenes gave him plenty to say.

 

[ROCKMAN X]

No, they don't, even DMC1 had a deeper story and characters

Yes DMC1 had better writing but DMC 3 didn't it was like a generic shonen manga storyline.

Vergil doesn't consider himself human and has no attachment to us as such.

HA HA its the same kind of Bullsh!t excuse Sasuke uses to justify himself for being an asshole.

It's the key to his ambitions.

And what are they ? After getting Sparda DT What would he do ?

Will he use his powers to build an orphanage ?:lol:

Vergil does, he is a samurai in most every sense of the word, you are not.

And his honor also includes unleashing evil upon humankind ? his honor also includes killing teammates ?

Just because it isn't SH2 doesn't mean it lacks any depth

Yes it does because its not a story driven game.

Also, it's not Dragon Ball, it's Versus.

IDK what you're talking about DMC has the same kind of over the top action and simple characters as DBZ.

Vergil didn't have anything in DmC that resembled development

HA HA that's a joke right ? he was way more fleshed out and robust then DMC 3 vergil ever was.

Well... It kinda is a video game... and I know, DmC was meant to be more closely related to a movie or a book than the originals but I always thought that DmC had the writing quality of a ScyFi original movie.

I'm talking about games like Megaman X with completely abstract bosses vergil is that kind of boss.

 

[berto]

this and that

I was going to respond but I think it's better to let it go. These thing usually go nowhere and I rather spare the rest of the board.

On thing I will say is what Versus is. Versus is a 2000 B zombie movie directed by Ryuhei Kitamura which it became widely popular. The film's action director, Yuji Shimomura, was also the action director of DMC3, 4, and Bayonetta, has become rather well known because of these types of film. He is where the games get their visual flare and action choreography, not anime. If you want to learn more go watch the film, it's been available for a long time world wide and so has the other film I mentioned Aragami, which was another Kitamura/Shimomura collaboration which has the same style of story telling as DMC 3 and 4.

 

[DragonMaster2010]

Vergil is evil.

He killed a woman just because she offered him a book
He killed a bunch of thugs in cold blood just because they touched his sword. (They tried to steal it. He didn't need to kill)
He released a giant tower of demons that could've killed people in the world.
He stabbed his own brother twice in cold blood. (Vergil was surprised that Dante rose up again.)
He used Arkham all this time until killing him just because he was done with him.
He beat up on a demon corpse just to try out his new toys.

Yeah, up until helping Dante with Arhkam, he was evil, and even after Arhkam, he was still evil, but hey, at least he didn't let Dante get trapped in the demon world. Y'know, so he can be like daddy himself.

All in all; Vergil's evil. misunderstood, sociopathic, and an all around douchebag version of evil all in one.

 

[berto]

He killed a woman just because she offered him a book

That wasn't a woman. Women's spines don't rattle after death and they tend to have organs. That was a creature and Vergil was warning Arkham to not try anything funny.

He killed a bunch of thugs in cold blood just because they touched his sword. (They tried to steal it. He didn't need to kill)

Him or them. The idea was that Vergil don't take no sh!t, he is old school in a samurai way and when anyone tried to touch his sword there'd be consequences. Besides they were thugs, it wasn't friendly banter that got them sliced, it was thuggish treats. Would've it been alright if he let them take his sh!t and gotten his ass handed to him just because people'll think less of him? What an evil bastard.

He released a giant tower of demons that could've killed people in the world.

I don't think the world was in danger, just the city, and it was stated that most people fled when they saw the giant tower rising from the ground so the body count wasn't as bad as you make it sound to be.

He stabbed his own brother twice in cold blood. (Vergil was surprised that Dante rose up again.)

I don't know if this is fair, what with Dante trying to do the same. Just because Vergil did it first people assume that he was the asshole of the fight but Dante wasn't exactly using a foam sword with rubber bullets. What does everyone here think was going to happen, exactly, if Dante had won? He was going to tell him how wrong he was, show him the error of his ways, and send him off a better man after learning a valuable lesson on the importance of been Vergil? After all, there is nothing cooler than been yourself.

He used Arkham all this time until killing him just because he was done with him.

Yeah, poor unsuspecting Arkham, he never any chance. It's not like he was manipulating Vergil when he did all that betraying.

He beat up on a demon corpse just to try out his new toys.

Again, beating demon corpses rates much lower that kicking Nazi corpses around in my list of no no's so who cares. Not like he was kicking around a cute kitten's dead carcass around.

Yeah, up until helping Dante with Arhkam, he was evil, and even after Arhkam, he was still evil, but hey, at least he didn't let Dante get trapped in the demon world. Y'know, so he can be like daddy himself.

Yep.

All in all; Vergil's evil. misunderstood, sociopathic, and an all around douchebag version of evil all in one.

And we couldn't love him more if he was a was a woman.

 

[DragonMaster2010]

That wasn't a woman. Women's spines don't rattle after death and they tend to have organs. That was a creature and Vergil was warning Arkham to not try anything funny.

No, that was a woman.

Him or them. The idea was that Vergil don't take no sh!t, he is old school in a samurai way and when anyone tried to touch his sword there'd be consequences. Besides they were thugs, it wasn't friendly banter that got them sliced, it was thuggish treats. Would've it been alright if he let them take his sh!t and gotten his ass handed to him just because people'll think less of him? What an evil *******.

So...he's couldn't just subdue them without killing them? I thought he was the SON OF SPADA, as in he didn't need to try so hard to defeat enemies.

I don't think the world was in danger, just the city, and it was stated that most people fled when they saw the giant tower rising from the ground so the body count wasn't as bad as you make it sound to be.

So you think all those demons were just going to hit the border of the city and stop?

I don't know if this is fair, what with Dante trying to do the same. Just because Vergil did it first people assume that he was the asshole of the fight but Dante wasn't exactly using a foam sword with rubber bullets. What does everyone here think was going to happen, exactly, if Dante had won? He was going to tell him how wrong he was, show him the error of his ways, and send him off a better man after learning a valuable lesson on the importance of been Vergil? After all, there is nothing cooler than been yourself.

Even so, he stabbed Dante in cold blood without even a second thought or feeling bad at all about doing it.

Yeah, poor unsuspecting Arkham, he never any chance. It's not like he was manipulating Vergil when he did all that betraying.

Stil he didn't have to kill him like he was a threat. (foreshadowing of course)

Again, beating demon corpses rates much lower that kicking Nazi corpses around in my list of no no's so who cares. Not like he was kicking around a cute kitten's dead carcass around.

But was it neccessary to show your douche-ness? "I got a new weapon! LET'S KICK A DEFEATED DEMON WITHOUT MY SO CALLED HONOR! What happen to that honor that everyone says he has?



And we couldn't love him more if he was a was a woman.

Why would it matter if he was a woman?

 

[ROCKMAN X]

Vergil is evil.
He killed a woman just because she offered him a book

Another example of how dangerous books are !
It is not the video games that induces violence its the books

I don't know if this is fair, what with Dante trying to do the same. Just because Vergil did it first people assume that he was the asshole of the fight but Dante wasn't exactly using a foam sword with rubber bullets. What does everyone here think was going to happen, exactly, if Dante had won? He was going to tell him how wrong he was, show him the error of his ways, and send him off a better man after learning a valuable lesson on the importance of been Vergil? After all, there is nothing cooler than been yourself.

EH.. didn't Dante win against NERO TOO ?? he didn't go right and stab him.

 

[berto]

No, that was a woman.

Do you actually know women whose spines rattle after dead and lack internal organs? Dude, you need to find a different crowd to hang out with.

So...he's couldn't just subdue them without killing them? I thought he was the SON OF SPADA, as in he didn't need to try so hard to defeat enemies.

The way of the samurai, they don't f*ck around.

So you think all those demons were just going to hit the border of the city and stop?

I don't think they left the vicinity of the tower.

Even so, he stabbed Dante in cold blood without even a second thought or feeling bad at all about doing it.

And Dante would've provably done the same.

Stil he didn't have to kill him like he was a threat. (foreshadowing of course)

He didn't. He just got suckered in to thinking that he did.

But was it neccessary to show your douche-ness? "I got a new weapon! LET'S KICK A DEFEATED DEMON WITHOUT MY SO CALLED HONOR! What happen to that honor that everyone says he has?

Again, had it been a Nazi, a psychopath who eats babies in front of their mothers with sprinkles, or a pedophile no one would've bat an eyelash, yet this seems to be the ultimate taboo. I don't get the big deal.

Why would it matter if he was a woman?

That was a joke, bro, that was a joke.

 

[ROCKMAN X]

The way of the samurai, they don't f*ck around.

ha ha lol i've played a game called "Way of samurai" where you get many choices... either be a D!ck to everyone or actually follow the "way of the samurai"

(saving little girl's life is PURELY OPTIONAL)

For ex: you can actually choose to help innocent civilians or let them die >_> so as far as Vergil goes he's a D!ck/thug unceremonious samurai.

And Dante would've provably done the same.

He didn't DO THAT TO NERO!

 

[Demi-fiend]

The lengths some people will go to defend their "anti-heroes"...

Shadow Man was an anti-hero. DMC3 Vergil was a villain that was (barely) trying to justify his actions. Who was he trying to protect again? Himself? Dante? Humanity? Maybe if his motivations weren't so vague...

Whoa Rockman X, you presented some damn good arguments, right there.

 

[berto]

ha ha lol i've played a game called "Way of samurai" where you get many choices... either be a D!ck to everyone or actually follow the "way of the samurai"

(saving little girl's life is PURELY OPTIONAL)

For ex: you can actually choose to help innocent civilians or let them die >_> so as far as Vergil goes he's a D!ck/thug unceremonious samurai.

Way of the Samurai isn't exactly the best place to learn about samurai history or tradition. If you want a more 'authentic' samurai portrayal I recommend old samurai dramas, they are more 'realistic' than most modern media as even Japan has gotten a bit tired of the stoic, strict portrayal of the warrior class. Though that also applies to Vergil since he has a more colorful attitude than the classic Samurai.

Besides I already mentioned that Vergil doesn't consider himself human; I might as well tell you that killing a wasp nest in your back yard is evil for the same reason. The old argument of the vampire that would point out that the chicken sees humans monsters but we won't stop eating them; Vergil would provably see humans in the same level, though I douth he'd eat a human, what with him downright hating us as a species.

Dante provably sees it like we do, to murder another human is one of the greatest sins a person can commit, but to Vergil it'd be no different than killing an animal, which happens every day. Evil, to be sure, but not contradictory to his believes or sense of honor.

He didn't DO THAT TO NERO!

Why would he, not like Nero can do much to him. Besides, Nero ain't evil.

The lengths some people will go to defend their "anti-heroes"...

Never said he was an anti hero. In fact, I'm pretty sure I've said that he was evil. My whole point has always been that even though Vergil is evil he isn't a flat character.

 

[ROCKMAN X]

Way of the Samurai isn't exactly the best place to learn about samurai history or tradition.

Are you sure you've played the game ? i don't think so :ermm: the game gives you a fine idea of of the Edo era idk if its historically accurate but the samurai tradition,philosophy and ideologies are very much intact from movies like The last Samurai and anime like Rurouni kenshin(that is if you even consider them as a credible source)

After all in which game are you a poor wandering samurai with no superpowers who can choose to do good or bad things ?

Why would he, not like Nero can do much to him. Besides, Nero ain't evil.

Then why do you think he would do that to vergil who he has personal relations with ? he didn't try to violently assault any human cult member instead only killed the mindless freaks and even resisted nero because he wasn't a mindless freak that proves his generosity(albeit cocky but still generous).

I have a brother whom often i used to get in fights with when i was young and the next day we both would be together like nothing happened.

I hardly doubt that dante was thinking "VERGIL I'm SOO GONNA KILL YOU" instead he was more like " WTF are you doing ? i'll beat you to show that you're wrong!'.

Dante provably sees it like we do, to murder another human is one of the greatest sins a person can commit, but to Vergil it'd be no different than killing an animal, which happens every day. Evil, to be sure, but not contradictory to his believes or sense of honor.

Remember this is your theory.. its not even implied in the games

Besides WTF is your logic as long as you don't have a sense of empathy you'e a honorable person ?? BULLSH!T that's a person with psychopathic disorder !