Is Devil May Cry becoming for newbies?

[DragonMaster2010]

You can't make somebody accountable if he never played single game and than attempted and failed it. Statistic builds from casual representatives of the groups, not from extremes. As such very bad players doesn't belong to this statistics and irrelevant to game's difficulty.

Every player belongs in the statistic. Even the ones who aren't that good because they are the ones playing DMC too. To not hold them in the same line as the veterans of DMC with this thread is, once again like I said in this thread before, another example of DMC fans wanting to make DMC exclusive to JUST DMC fans like it can't be played by newb players.
I never said that the person playing has never played a game, I said a gamer who isn't good at DMC in general (can't JC, can't guard cancel, etc.) and that the difficulty of DMC isn't so much on the game as it's on the player. Like I said, some gamers still can't get past DMD on DmC, while most of us in this forum can.

 

[Innsmouth]

Every player belongs in the statistic. Even the ones who aren't that good because they are the ones playing DMC too. To not hold them in the same line as the veterans of DMC with this thread is, once again like I said in this thread before, another example of DMC fans wanting to make DMC exclusive to JUST DMC fans like it can't be played by newb players.
I never said that the person playing has never played a game, I said a gamer who isn't good at DMC in general (can't JC, can't guard cancel, etc.) and that the difficulty of DMC isn't so much on the game as it's on the player. Like I said, some gamers still can't get past DMD on DmC, while most of us in this forum can.

I already said. Statistic builds of casual middle ground not of 2 extremes. So no most professional players or worst of them can be counted. Difficulty defined by how much of a challenge game puts for player to complete or master it. And it can easily be defined. Difficulty is objective matter not subjective. Because its not measured by single individual. In case of this thread it's based on opinion of one person shared by few other players. So it's not "its only your opinion" case.

 

[berto]

There are long standing debates regarding the difficulty of modern video games. Have video games become easier? Yes, absolutely. Modern video games are designed for 18-40 year olds and those people have jobs and an income. Easier games mean that gamers will beat them faster and go buy another game quicker. Add to that that there are more people who don't finish games they start than people than do.

In relation to DMC the decrease in difficulty from DMC4 to DmC and DMC4 SE, well, first off I never thought that DMC4 was particularly hard to begging with. In contrast to DMC3 DMC4 is a bit of a cake walk. Just because Dante has combat complexity didn't mean I found the game particularly challenging. Honestly, I found that patience was the thing I needed the most with a whole lot of enemies liking to flee out of range, which seemed to be such a common theme with the opponents of DMC4, having to chase them or having to stand around till an enemy came to range, and it was more frustrating than the actual combat most enemies presented.

With that been said an even lower difficulty has been less than welcome. Imagine playing basketball for sport and fun and competitiveness, and imagine that your opponent is a child. You are not been challenged, you are not improving, you are not evolving because your opponent isn't strong enough to bring challenge and with out that where is the rush and adrenalin? Pandering gaming is not for me, not for the most part, there are times where I want to get through a game's story but in this case I play DMC for the challenge. Remember when the name Devil May Cry was synonymous with difficulty? While I also understand the opposite side of that coin, that it would be no fun to be a child playing off against Kobe, I think we overdid it with DMC and it went well passed the 'been less brutally punishing' to the design been way too not punishing... at all. For the most part DMC4 has you fighting pillows who are not in the least bit frighting, come on. There are far too many times in DMC4 and DmC where I can stand still and wait to respond to an attack and I can be waiting for way too long.

Someone mentioned that DmC was designed as an introductory game for new gamers. I've mentioned this a few times but DmC and DMC4 are, with 2 excluded, my least favorite DMC games. The fundamentals of their creation are the same. When they pitched DMC4 they used a lot of the same key words and phrases as they would later one use for DmC to tell the public why the game was so different from the previous title. We want to appeal to new a audience, we don't want to scare people off with the difficulty, this way people don't have to play the previous titles to understand what's going on, we want to make a game that really sells. The last 3 games have been made with the mentality that they need to make the games easy for new people to come it to it. I can only assume that that will also be the way they approach the new game, by the way.

By the way, I know that there are other difficulties but I don't like that I have to play through a whole lot of other boring ones to get through the one that suits me.

It looks like a lot of people here disagree and rather have the difficulty that is been provided with DmC and DMC4. I can't get behind that, though. I didn't get into DMC despite the difficulty and I didn't get into it because of it either, but it was as much a part of the experience as Dante was and with every iteration there is less and less of what made DMC DMC so this is just another addition to that list of things that keep getting removed. DMC4 is almost nothing like DMC1 and DmC is even is more so and the challenge is just one of many elements that is missing from the experience I associate with a DMC game and for me that makes them imitations. A similar thing can be said with DMC3, that there are thing that got shaved off from 1 to 3, but 3 also offered more of it's own and plenty of what 1 had to be a worth while experience, which I can't say about 4 and DmC.

 

[DragonMaster2010]

I already said. Statistic builds of casual middle ground not of 2 extremes. So no most professional players or worst of them can be counted. Difficulty defined by how much of a challenge game puts for player to complete or master it. And it can easily be defined. Difficulty is objective matter not subjective. Because its not measured by single individual. In case of this thread it's based on opinion of one person shared by few other players. So it's not "its only your opinion" case.

But to say that casual and newb players aren't part of any statistic that is matched with more pro DMC players makes no sense because they're players of DMC too and as such are part of the statistic. newb, veteran, middle ground, and pro players are all in there and they all have different forms of gameplay that makes their experience with the series either easy or difficult. I am counting all players of DMC, but you were saying here

\As such very bad players doesn't belong to this statistics and irrelevant to game's difficulty.

when really, all players do belong because they all are playing the same game.
Difficulty can go both ways regardless. Just as Berto has said;

I never thought that DMC4 was particularly hard to begging with. In contrast to DMC3 DMC4 is a bit of a cake walk.

See for him, it was pretty easy, but for a new player, its the toughest game ever. This player having played other difficult games before but cannot beat DMC4 like people in this community have.
This is more or less a "your opinion" case, because the difficulty of a game isn't based on a few players who happen to have the same opinion, but the entire video game community. Some people will say DMC4 is an easy game, some will say its a hard game. It depends on how the player plays it and their strategy.

 

[Innsmouth]

But to say that casual and newb players aren't part of any statistic that is matched with more pro DMC players makes no sense because they're players of DMC too and as such are part of the statistic. newb, veteran, middle ground, and pro players are all in there and they all have different forms of gameplay that makes their experience with the series either easy or difficult. I am counting all players of DMC, but you were saying here
when really, all players do belong because they all are playing the same game.
Difficulty can go both ways regardless. Just as Berto has said;

It's all doesn't matter. If somebody starts Lego game and can't divide left from right and start complain its to hard, it won't make game any harder. Same goes for people who can knock even hardest games like Ninja Gaiden with no effort. Statistics is usually based on middle ground, it's basic math. In the end you can't say game is hard for 100 people, just because 5 of them can't play.

 

[DragonMaster2010]

It's all doesn't matter. If somebody starts Lego game and can't divide left from right and start complain its to hard, it won't make game any harder. Same goes for people who can knock even hardest games like Ninja Gaiden with no effort. Statistics is usually based on middle ground, it's basic math. In the end you can't say game is hard for 100 people, just because 5 of them can't play.

So basically it all goes back to my first post; it's not the game, it's the player. Some gamers can do things easier then other gamers; QED; DMC pro players vs DMC veterans vs DMC newbs.

 

[Innsmouth]

So basically it all goes back to my first post; it's not the game, it's the player. Some gamers can do things easier then other gamers; QED; DMC pro players vs DMC veterans vs DMC newbs.

I somehow start to get feeling that you don't even read what I write. There is no Vs. Several gamers who weren't even pro at DMC4 finding it easier than it was in vanilla. It's middle ground. So it's objective thing, just like that 80% of gamers found DmC to easy.

 

[AgentRedgrave]

Oh boy, okay my two cents. While I will agree difficulty can depend on the players skill level (and I'm using can lightly), I don't agree that it's a your opinion case. Judging difficulty is not exactly the same as judging story quality or character design.
For me, the original DmC release was much easier then previous games. But I started with vanilla DMC3 here, the rest of the games were all a cake walk in comparison.
That being said, I had a friend play DmC, I guided him through the whole game offering advice. Then he went and played DMC1 on his own, he came up to me "So I played the first Devil May Cry last night" and I was like "Oh, really? How'd you like it" his response "You didn't tell me it was hard"
So yeah, it's based on skill, but I find it difficult to say it's personal opinion.

 

[LordOfDarkness]

@DragonMaster2010, @Innsmouth: Enough of this back and forth bickering about who is right or wrong here. You're cluttering up the thread with your opinions on the subject of difficulty, just to try and prove a point against the other and seem like you're coming out on top. Please, if you really want to continue this with one another, you can take it out of the thread. As I personally don't think this discussion is adding much here, when these are both of your opinions and the main point is to discuss just DMC's difficulty and not just the difficulty of games in general, so no need to over evaluate the situation.

 

[berto]

People keep mentioning that the 3 new characters are overpowered. I think the reasoning behind that was because Lady, Trish and Vergil were all designed specifically for LDK mode. Everything about them seems geared towards the capacity to take on larger groups of enemies.

 

[Vergil Crosse]

I don't think games have really gotten easier per se. I believe we as gamers have just gotten better at gaming. We're able to adjust and rise to the difficulty level faster, perform combo's, or adapt to the game mechanics because of our experiences in the past. Some of us had the benefit of growing up when video games were fresh and evolving. You begin to notice games have similar gaming aspects that are across most other games. An example of this would be frame cancelling. Every game has start up frames, active frames, and recovery frames. Usually, those can be cancelled out of in some capacity or another.

I may be flamed for this, but I feel DMC1 was the hardest of all. The enemies had some very strange timings on their attacks that made adapting to the DMC3 enemies a cake walk. Although, DMC3 had a harder scaling for enemies, I still believe that DMC1 enemies were harder to adjust to their attack patterns in addition to them gaining new abilities.

 

[Innsmouth]

I may be flamed for this, but I feel DMC1 was the hardest of all. The enemies had some very strange timings on their attacks that made adapting to the DMC3 enemies a cake walk. Although, DMC3 had a harder scaling for enemies, I still believe that DMC1 enemies were harder to adjust to their attack patterns in addition to them gaining new abilities.

Actually they really were harder in DMC1. DMC3 enemies are pretty basic and don't require much strategy unlike DMC1 ones

 

[Enigma]

DMC4 SE's easiness might just be due to them not testing it that well. DMC4 SE was rushed, after all, and the devs seemed more interested in throwing a lot of characters at you rather than focusing on the difficulty and additional story or gameplay elements.

But anyway, all games are being made suitable to newbies nowadays -- it's all due to the fact that gaming is becoming more of a mainstream thing. Hell, games are nowadays not even held to as high standards as they were... and it's mostly because games are being conflated with movies: games are expected to have great stories, but they can get away with having mediocre gameplay.
Even Dark Souls II was easy as hell all of a sudden, and Bloodborne is said to be no more difficult than DS2. I just hope that Capcom will realize they can make games easy for the noobs, but also intricate under the surface. There must be some way to make games like Devil May Cry accessible to both noobs and experts, without completely turning it into something like DmC that was criticized for being too shallow gameplay-wise (since it had only about half the amount of combos DMC4 had, and was restrictive) as well as too easy.

 

[Foxtrot94]

games are expected to have great stories, but they can get away with having mediocre gameplay.

Jesus, that is the truest thing I've read in a while.