Hypothetical Scenario: DmC's PR

[MigsRZXAStylish]

To OP: Maybe... Can't even tell...!

@Chancey289 That could be one of the reasons why...
But both sides of the spectrum can be the ones at fault, not just one side... -_-

 

[InfernalOverkill]

A decade ago, MGS2's Raiden got much more hate and rejection from the Metal Gear fanbase and the gaming community (although I was one of the few who didn't mind him).

The hate was acknowledged to the point that series creator Hideo Kojima added a homosexual, effeminate Raiden look-a-like for you to beat up, strip and stuff into a locker in MGS3.


Fast-forward to 2008 (MGS4) and the present (MGR:R), all that hate for Raiden seems to have dissipated after his cyborg makeover.


I think if Raiden and Konami can recover from all of that, so can Capcom and the new Dante.
But will it take a cyborg makeover to make new Dante more loved?

Ahh Raiden. They even stuck about 20 mintues of Snake-time in there just to lessen the blow.

Raiden recovered because they basically turned him into Grey Fox, and Snake wasn't steamrolled out of his own series. If the original series continues along side the reboot series I imagine the same will happen, if however the original series is dead, I imagine the animosity towards him will continue.

Fun fact: Nero suddenly became a much less hated character after DmC came out

 

[DragonMaster2010]

A decade ago, MGS2's Raiden got much more hate and rejection from the Metal Gear fanbase and the gaming community (although I was one of the few who didn't mind him).

The hate was acknowledged to the point that series creator Hideo Kojima added a homosexual, effeminate Raiden look-a-like for you to beat up, strip and stuff into a locker in MGS3.


Fast-forward to 2008 (MGS4) and the present (MGR:R), all that hate for Raiden seems to have dissipated after his cyborg makeover.


I think if Raiden and Konami can recover from all of that, so can Capcom and the new Dante.
But will it take a cyborg makeover to make new Dante more loved?

There's a difference: Raiden was an entirely different character.
New Dante is a rebooted character.

 

[MigsRZXAStylish]

I see it as a two way mirror. Both sides said things they really shouldn't have.

But in my opinion I say its more on the fandom. Misinterpritation of info, thowing bullsh!t anyway seen fit, failure to distinguish punk british movement with emo, unrealistic understanding of the reboot's purpose, no ACTUAL critism to try to make the game better (no suggestion of turbo, gun kata, etc.) death threats (?) smeer campaining, false info, and now "UR NO REEL FAN OF DEVIL MAY CRY IF YOU LIKE DmC YOU F*CKIN LOSER! GO TO HELL FAGGOT BITCH!!" This was on my Tumblr.

Pretty much what I wanna say for the first part...

For the second part... Pretty much...

For the last part in the second part...
THERE. IS. STILL. THAT. BS.?!?!
WHAT?!
WHAT?!?!
WHAT?!?!?!

What?!

 

[Enigma]

There's a difference: Raiden was an entirely different character.
New Dante is a rebooted character.

New Dante is also an entirely different character. That's why it's called a 'rebooted' character: it's not the same thing as what came before. If it were supposed to be the same as the previous character, there would be no need to reboot him. He just acts a bit similar to old Dante sometimes (rarely, though).

 

[Goldsickle]

Another thing to consider is how Raiden's role as the main character was kept a secret, while the game was marketed as Snake being the main character.

While I didn't find it offending, there were people back in 2001 who thought this borders on "false advertising" and feel that they should sue Hideo Kojima.

On the other hand, you knew from the start that DmC is a reboot and it will star a different Dante in a different universe.

 

[Rebel Dynasty]

^ That's also a fair point-I think DragonMaster made a similar comparison earlier in the thread, as well.

Ahh Raiden. They even stuck about 20 mintues of Snake-time in there just to lessen the blow.

Raiden recovered because they basically turned him into Grey Fox, and Snake wasn't steamrolled out of his own series. If the original series continues along side the reboot series I imagine the same will happen, if however the original series is dead, I imagine the animosity towards him will continue.

Fun fact: Nero suddenly became a much less hated character after DmC came out

Lol, noticed that, too. Well, at least in part; some people still hate him, but that was to be expected, I guess. It still makes me laugh when I think about it, though.

 

[DragonMaster2010]

New Dante is also an entirely different character. That's why it's called a 'rebooted' character: it's not the same thing as what came before. If it were supposed to be the same as the previous character, there would be no need to reboot him. He just acts a bit similar to old Dante sometimes (rarely, though).

It was still Dante through and through. Yeah he looked different and acted different (if DMC3 Dante was bread in our current American streets) but he still carried the name, the same weapon style, and by the end of DmC, got his full head of white hair as the original has. Even his DT is the color scheme of classic Dante. Because he was to be an alternate universe version of old Dante, he is still a version of Dante and is tied to classic Dante.

Raiden is a completely different character from Snake. Raiden was bread in the same universe as Snake and wasn't related to him. He was an entirely different protagonist in MGR from Snake and was able to get away with replacing the original protaganist because not only was he a different character in his own game, but also because there would be another MGS game with Snake as the protaganist again coming right after MGR.

Capcom rebooted Dante to be unrecognizable from classic Dante and new Dante wasn't a new character at all. he was just another version of Dante just as DMC1 to DMC3 was only in his own alternate world. Yeah, DMC3 Dante was Dante at his youngest, but it still counted as another version of him through and through. Plus, Capcom made no indication that they would go back to the classic series besides them giving small hints that could mean something, or nothing at all.

So there is a difference.

 

[Enigma]

It was still Dante through and through. Yeah he looked different and acted different (if DMC3 Dante was bread in our current American streets) but he still carried the name, the same weapon style, and by the end of DmC, got his full head of white hair as the original has. Even his DT is the color scheme of classic Dante. Because he was to be an alternate universe version of old Dante, he is still a version of Dante and is tied to classic Dante.

Raiden is a completely different character from Snake. Raiden was bread in the same universe as Snake and wasn't related to him. He was an entirely different protagonist in MGR from Snake and was able to get away with replacing the original protaganist because not only was he a different character in his own game, but also because there would be another MGS game with Snake as the protaganist again coming right after MGR.

Capcom rebooted Dante to be unrecognizable from classic Dante and new Dante wasn't a new character at all. he was just another version of Dante just as DMC1 to DMC3 was only in his own alternate world. Yeah, DMC3 Dante was Dante at his youngest, but it still counted as another version of him through and through. Plus, Capcom made no indication that they would go back to the classic series besides them giving small hints that could mean something, or nothing at all.

So there is a difference.

If he looks different, has a different personality, has different experiences and views, he's not the same Dante, and wouldn't have to be called Dante. It's as simple as that. The DmC version might as well be called Jimmy. If you gave new Dante totally different clothing and different hair, he would be unrecognizable to me as Dante. He'd just be some guy. Yeah, he got blond hair eventually, but it didn't look like DMC Dante's hair. It was short, messy and blond, DMC Dante's hair was long and white. Him getting the same color coat as the old Dante does not make him Dante, just like I wouldn't get camouflage abilities if I were to wear a chameleon costume.

*bred. :tongue:
Well, he didn't get away with replacing the original protagonist, because he never replaced him. MGR is not a Metal Gear Solid game, it's a spin-off (Rising). Kojima made the right decision with that - if NT had decided to make DmC a spin-off rather than a reboot, there would've been much less of a hassle. MGS2 featured Raiden in a dual role with Solid Snake, though I admit the part with Solid Snake was brief. MGS3 featured Naked Snake and MGS4 featured Solid Snake again. No replacement.

Wait, so he's unrecognizable from old Dante, but somehow at the same time, he IS Dante? He's either a different version of Dante, or he's unrecognizable as being Dante. Being both is impossible.

You're right that Capcom made no indication they were going to return to the DMCs, and I never said I think they will. All bets are off right now.

 

[DragonMaster2010]

If he looks different, has a different personality, has different experiences and views, he's not the same Dante, and wouldn't have to be called Dante.
It's as simple as that. The DmC version might as well be called Jimmy. If you gave new Dante totally different clothing and different hair, he would be unrecognizable to me as Dante. He'd just be some guy. Yeah, he got blond hair eventually, but it didn't look like DMC Dante's hair. It was short, messy and blond, DMC Dante's hair was long and white. Him getting the same color coat as the old Dante does not make him Dante, just like I wouldn't get camouflage abilities if I were to wear a chameleon costume.

You mean like how DMC3 Dante has a different personality from DMC2 Dante? So does that mean DMC2 Dante isn't Dante either just because he's not cocky? You said it yourself that white hair and a red coat doesn't make you Dante, so naturally you mean character in which DMC2 Dante isn't like the other versions of Dante to appear.

Also

That's not blond. That's white hair. And the hair style is kind of like Nero's if he had bed head.

*bred. :tongue:

Well, he didn't get away with replacing the original protagonist, because he never replaced him. MGR is not a Metal Gear Solid game, it's a spin-off (Rising). Kojima made the right decision with that - if NT had decided to make DmC a spin-off rather than a reboot, there would've been much less of a hassle. MGS2 featured Raiden in a dual role with Solid Snake, though I admit the part with Solid Snake was brief. MGS3 featured Naked Snake and MGS4 featured Solid Snake again. No replacement.

Well that's what I was getting at. Raiden was the main protaganist in his own game while another MGS was still promised with Snake in the spot light again. This wasn't the case for DMC and DmC as new Dante's conception was acting as the intended rebooted replacement with no sign of classic Dante in sight.

Wait, so he's unrecognizable from old Dante, but somehow at the same time, he IS Dante? He's either a different version of Dante, or he's unrecognizable as being Dante. Being both is impossible.

That's how parallel universes work. If there was a parallel version of yourself, would you still call it you? Yes, because despite you being you, that alternate version of you is also you in his/her own reality, living life just as you are.

You're right that Capcom made no indication they were going to return to the DMCs, and I never said I think they will. All bets are off right now.

Who knows honestly. There are hints that they still have interest in the classic series.

Sengoku Basara 4 DLC costume of old Dante.

Project X Zone Dante

Monster Hunter Frontier G Dante.

So I guess we'll just wait and see.

 

[Demi-fiend]

@Goldsickle

Welcome back.

 

[InfernalOverkill]

MGS3 featured Naked Snake and MGS4 featured Solid Snake again. No replacement.

The one time replacing the main character went down well. *para drop in* I'M RAIDEN? AGAIN? WHAT THE HELL?! *mask off* OMG I'M SNAKE - AWWWWW YEAAAAAAH *end game* HOLY **** I WAS BIG BOSS? THAT'S AWESOME!

 

[DragonMaster2010]

The one time replacing the main character went down well. *para drop in* I'M RAIDEN? AGAIN? WHAT THE HELL?! *mask off* OMG I'M SNAKE - AWWWWW YEAAAAAAH *end game* HOLY **** I WAS BIG BOSS? THAT'S AWESOME!

What if Devil May Cry did that.

*Begins* ALRITE! I'M DANTE!!
*Brushes hair back* WAIT I'm ACTUALLY VERGIL?!! AWWW YEAHHH!!!!
*Grows DB* HOLD ON, I WAS ACTUALLY AND OLDER NERO?! DAFUQ!!!?
*Get's Dante's weapons and goes to new job* WAIT...NERO WAS DMC2 DANTE THIS WHOLE TIME?! THE F*CK IS GOIN OOOON!!???

 

[InfernalOverkill]

What if Devil May Cry did that.

*Begins* ALRITE! I'M DANTE!!
*Brushes hair back* WAIT I'm ACTUALLY VERGIL?!! AWWW YEAHHH!!!!
*Grows DB* HOLD ON, I WAS ACTUALLY AND OLDER NERO?! DAFUQ!!!?
*Get's Dante's weapons and goes to new job* WAIT...NERO WAS DMC2 DANTE THIS WHOLE TIME?! THE F*CK IS GOIN OOOON!!???

Bricks would be shat

 

[Goldsickle]

@Goldsickle

Welcome back.

Meow.

 

[Enigma]

If he looks different, has a different personality, has different experiences and views, he's not the same Dante, and wouldn't have to be called Dante.
It's as simple as that. The DmC version might as well be called Jimmy. If you gave new Dante totally different clothing and different hair, he would be unrecognizable to me as Dante. He'd just be some guy. Yeah, he got blond hair eventually, but it didn't look like DMC Dante's hair. It was short, messy and blond, DMC Dante's hair was long and white. Him getting the same color coat as the old Dante does not make him Dante, just like I wouldn't get camouflage abilities if I were to wear a chameleon costume.

You mean like how DMC3 Dante has a different personality from DMC2 Dante? So does that mean DMC2 Dante isn't Dante either just because he's not cocky? You said it yourself that white hair and a red coat doesn't make you Dante, so naturally you mean character in which DMC2 Dante isn't like the other versions of Dante to appear.

Also
That's not blond. That's white hair. And the hair style is kind of like Nero's if he had bed head.

Well, he didn't get away with replacing the original protagonist, because he never replaced him. MGR is not a Metal Gear Solid game, it's a spin-off (Rising). Kojima made the right decision with that - if NT had decided to make DmC a spin-off rather than a reboot, there would've been much less of a hassle. MGS2 featured Raiden in a dual role with Solid Snake, though I admit the part with Solid Snake was brief. MGS3 featured Naked Snake and MGS4 featured Solid Snake again. No replacement.

Well that's what I was getting at. Raiden was the main protaganist in his own game while another MGS was still promised with Snake in the spot light again. This wasn't the case for DMC and DmC as new Dante's conception was acting as the intended rebooted replacement with no sign of classic Dante in sight.

Wait, so he's unrecognizable from old Dante, but somehow at the same time, he IS Dante? He's either a different version of Dante, or he's unrecognizable as being Dante. Being both is impossible.

That's how parallel universes work. If there was a parallel version of yourself, would you still call it you? Yes, because despite you being you, that alternate version of you is also you in his/her own reality, living life just as you are.

- DMC2 is considered by Capcom themselves (unofficially) not to really be a DMC game, mainly because of Dante's change in personality. Nobody likes to talk about it much. I'll be honest, I haven't played DMC2 for long, as I got bored with it really fast. But from what I can see, DMC2 Dante is not Dante. He hardly ever says anything, and when he does he just decides to flip a coin. Since I haven't finished DMC2, I can't say much about it. He just doesn't seem similar enough to DMC1 Dante. Just like DmC Dante doesn't seem like Dante.

- Yeah, it comes closer to being white than blond, now that I look at it again. I guess it's because of the lighting in DmC. It usually looks light blond. ''Kind of like Nero's if he had bed hair''. No. Nero has medium long hair, NT Dante has slightly rugged short hair.

- You tried to compare NT Dante's role to Raiden, but they can't be compared. DaNTe replaced old Dante (DMC probably won't be made again), whereas Raiden simply coexists alongside Snake, since he has a spin-off (MGR).
So what's your point? Is it that people would be fine with DmC and its Dante if another DMC were made? Because yeah, that's what I (and others) have been telling Capcom all along. Just make one last DMC game (or two, to flesh out Nero), and conclude the series.

- You're missing my point. If he is unrecognizable as Dante, then how could you call him Dante? In parallel universes, characters still have some of the same personality traits as the original. They often still think almost the same, with the difference that they've walked a different path in life (Spock in Star Trek, O'Brien in Star Trek DS9, etc). They are not 'unrecognizable' when compared to their original versions. If DaNTe is unrecognizable as Dante like you said, then he might as well have a different name and appearance. People would be none the wiser.

 

[InfernalOverkill]

Pretend all you like that DMC2 didn't happen, but DMC3 incorporated a lot of the innovations DMC2 made. And DMC2 is where Rebellion makes its first appearance

Everyone has there favorites i funnily enough like DMC4 dante the most of em as a personality and a person followed by DMC3‘s and then DMC1‘s i thought DMC2 dante was the silent assassin badass type. The way i see it is in DMC4 dante had defeated mundus and gained an ally in trish reminding him of his mother and had closure with vergil so he went back to his cocky care free ways.

I agree with the sentiment above.
DMC3: Dante at his youngest/least refined.
DMC1: He grows up a bit thinking he killed his own brother, and becomes a little more jaded, whilst still being a bit of a joker.
DMC4: He's avenged his mother's death and his brother's enslavement, his relationship with Trish is now more like that of a sister or good friend, as opposed to the weird Oedipus complex kinda thing that DMC1 hinted to. This all results in a bit of closure for him and he loosens up a bit, somewhat reverting to his DMC3 personality.
DMC2: He's pretty much lost all of his clownish charm and become the 'silent badass' trope that doesn't really work for Dante[although it works quite well for Vergil]. His confidence is at an all time high, going so far as to actively help Arius gain more power because he's so sure of his own ability to win, and then deciding to go to Hell and [presumably] finish Mundus off for good. Why is he so quiet and jaded in DMC2? Something obviously happens in between 4 and 2; perhaps Trish and Nero die and he feels like he's lost Eva and Vergil all over again? Perhaps he's grown so powerful that he's disconnected from his emotions? Perhaps he Vergil'd it and embraced his demonic nature, whilst still retaining the desire to protect humanity, this would also explain the lolwtf super DT form he had.

I don't understand the hate DMC2 gets. It provided a mountain of influences that shaped DMC3, and in turn, DMC4. Yes the combat was lacking, but the combat in DMC1 wasn't exactly mind blowing either, was it?

That coin that he flips for no reason has a silhouette of Trish on it. We never see Trish in DMC2. Food for thought...

 

[Enigma]

Why is he so quiet and jaded in DMC2? Something obviously happens in between 4 and 2; perhaps Trish and Nero die and he feels like he's lost Eva and Vergil all over again? Perhaps he's grown so powerful that he's disconnected from his emotions? Perhaps he Vergil'd it and embraced his demonic nature, whilst still retaining the desire to protect humanity, this would also explain the lolwtf super DT form he had.

Or maybe DMC2 was simply made by a different development team that decided to give Dante their own 'stamp', ignoring his DMC1 personality. It's also one of the reasons why the people who made DMC1 don't wish to acknowledge DMC2. The guys who made DMC1 didn't even realize DMC2 was being made - that's how unplanned it all was.

 

[InfernalOverkill]

Come to think of it DMC2 and DmC have a fair bit in common. Notice the way Dante shoots E&I in game, especially when airborne? There's an actual delay between shots instead of a continuous stream of lead. Stinger? A step forward and a thrust. Tanks and helis as enemies? A mad CEO as the antagonist? All points to an attempt to add realism into the game, or as much realism as you can in a game about a Cambion demon hunter that's nigh-unkillable. Hell, even Lucia's DT is meant to look like an angel, even if we later find out she's a demon. Then there's the huge open area, you wouldn't see combat zones that big again until the reboot.

Or maybe DMC2 was simply made by a different development team that decided to give Dante their own 'stamp', ignoring his DMC1 personality. It's also one of the reasons why the people who made DMC1 don't wish to acknowledge DMC2.

True. But if you're going to take that standpoint, you should hate DMC3 too. Which game was more like the original DMC? DMC2 by a long shot. The combat and atmosphere in DMC2 are much more like DMC1 than DMC3 was. Now obviously DMC3's combat was a VAAAAAAAAAAAAAST improvement, but that's beside the point I'm making here.
DMC2 AND DMC3 both pulled DMC1 Dante's personality to extremes; DMC1 Dante is truly a middle ground for DMC2 and 3 Dante. DMC3 = a joker 99% of the time, DMC2= basically DMC3 Vergil; just generally uninterested in everything and throws the odd insult out now and then, and then you have DMC1 Dante who was equal parts joker and serious.

They can choose to ignore it all they want. The fact remains that the 2 DMC games that really nailed a DMC game had a lot to owe DMC2, and DMC1 for that matter. If the makers of DMC1 had continued making games in the vein of DMC1 we probably wouldn't have the awesome combat that we know and love from 3/4.

 

[Rebel Dynasty]

They can choose to ignore it all they want. The fact remains that the 2 DMC games that really nailed a DMC game had a lot to owe DMC2, and DMC1 for that matter. If the makers of DMC1 had continued making games in the vein of DMC1 we probably wouldn't have the awesome combat that we know and love from 3/4.

True; while Hideki Kamiya shall be given his due for creating DMC1 (and it sucks that Capcom didn't even notify him when they started production on 2...just for the simple principle of him being the father of the series, so to speak) Hideaki Itsuno and team did bring a lot to the table, as well. DMC2 was rougher because Itsuno didn't have the time or resources to get to know the series or the characters, before he was thrust into the director's chair. As a result, the game and storyline suffered. However, Itsuno and his team built from that experience.

Now, people can whine and moan about 3 and 4 all they damn please (and let's face it, we know they will since they always do), but by then, you can tell the gameplay had been refined quite a bit.

As far as I'm concerned, all of the games have their pros and cons. I don't hate 2; it just doesn't grab me the way 1, 3, and 4 do. That being said, I swear I'm going to finish it, one of these days. :laugh: