Hypothetical Scenario: DmC's PR

[TWOxACROSS]

No, I didn't find old Dante to sound smug, really. Cocky, yes, but not smug. Twice now I've heard new Dante say ''my name is Dante'' in a kind of smug way, like ''my name is Dante! How could you not know that?'' Besides, he sounds like a spoiled little kid, whereas old Dante simply knew he was powerful, and didn't feel the need to tell demons his name, as though his name somehow makes him special or entitled to something.

Smug and cocky are quite interchangeable :/ They both refer to someone pretty much being full of themselves and their abilities. I will always find it incredibly ludicrous when people decry DmC Dante for being cocky, yet being fine with classic Dante being the exact same way.

Dante is Dante, that's it.

Plus, for DmC, Dante stating his name to Poison (or in this case the Bankster) is essentially a declaration of war. They spend all their time trying to find him, and now he deliberately fights back. He wants them to know that he is now there, coming for them. The hunted has become the hunter.

You seriously don't think it was meant to make him look 'cool' and make him stand out from the crowd?

You're sorta looking a little too deep into a common practice in films. Make him stand out, yes, he's supposed to, that's the point, he's the main character, the star of the show (so to speak). Give him a reason to use the hood (it's raining!) but he protects himself differently from others to stand out (who use umbrellas), even the little girl is wearing a yellow slicker, make her stand out. Then of course, the whole point of hoods is to help obscure features, to make the viewer intrigued, and in this case, they did it to obscure Dante's darker hair. Then, he jumps into the bank, pushes his hood down, goes to town on some demons, and then we're treated to Dante triggering, which gives him his iconic color scheme, which hints at something more going on in the story.

Was it made to make him look cool? Maybe? I dunno, hoods have been around for a very long time, and hoods are just cool. I doubt it was to try and look "gangsta" as that's never a vibe that DmC or Dante tried to exude, and wearing a goddamn hood isn't exclusively a "gangsta thing", considering he uses his hood for the express purpose it was built for - protecting you from the elements.

Or... he could just not use any cover for his head, to indicate that he doesn't care about a little rain, as a symbol that the demons' influence doesn't extend to him.

Well sure, but he's also trying to look inconspicuous, which was another entire point of DmC's designs (eg: not flamboyancy). If you keep assuming things were done for a specific reason, then of course you're going to be able to say that it wouldn't matter what the setting was, but you'd be ignoring specific elements that pertain to why the trailer is the way it is.

It should also be noted that this was originally a trailer seen in movie theaters, so it was less for fans who were keeping up with DmC news, and more for movie-goers.

I thought it was clear he 'wasn't innocent' from the minute Dante started, you know, fighting the legions of demons hanging around there. Obviously that guy is not innocent if he's not finding a way to escape or fight back.

Who is to say that everything in Limbo is bad? We met Phineas in Limbo, who wanted nothing to do with fighting Dante. You have to remember that this trailer is trying to quickly establish a few details in under 90 seconds. The fact that Dante himself goes to Limbo to fight others means that not everyone there is going to be "evil".

I know it's an easy way to rationalize these choices, like you said. But that's just it: because of how 'easy' it is, it looks tacky and cliché. But hey, I guess that's just my view. I like games and trailers to be a bit subtler than that.

Apologies that things can't live up to your lofty standards. And you know...clichés aren't inherently bad. They're done because they work. They're common storytelling devices that are used because those are ways to properly tell stories. Sure, there's a few that aren't the best, but overall to try and avoid all clichés can be extremely detrimental to a story.

A lot of what I said is rather subtle, like the use of the hood and whatnot, despite you hand-waving it to them "just trying to be cool". However, overall a trailer is designed to give you a quick glimpse into the world to pique interest, and being incredibly artsy and overly subtle for the sake of being incredibly artsy and overly subtle defeats the purpose of trying to tell people about your product.

In all honesty, you're sounding rather hipsterish >.>

 

[Enigma]

Smug and cocky are quite interchangeable :/ They both refer to someone pretty much being full of themselves and their abilities. I will always find it incredibly ludicrous when people decry DmC Dante for being cocky, yet being fine with classic Dante being the exact same way.

No, cocky just means being very confident in your abilities. It simply means that you think you can beat somebody else - not by feeling overly good about yourself or saying anything about your heritage or anything like that. Confident and eager.
Smug means that you think you're better than somebody else, i.e. when you act very pleased with yourself and sometimes would like to rub others' faces in it. Self-satisfied. That's a totally different thing than just being confident. It's right there on Wiktionary or merriam-webster.


You're sorta ... in the story.

I'm just saying it's a very cheap and cliché way of showing things, IMO. And I'll still maintain that this trailer is very much a way to make Dante look 'cool' in a cheap way. The way he looks when he triggers, the way he talks to that guy, the way he 'swaggers' to the building while the street is being warped, it all makes him look self-important, and it's annoying to me. If it isn't to you, fine. But you've got to realize that some people simply want Dante to be cool in what he does. Less words and presenting oneself as cool, and more action to support the idea that he's cool.

Was it made to make him look cool? Maybe? I dunno, hoods have been around for a very long time, and hoods are just cool. I doubt it was to try and look "gangsta" as that's never a vibe that DmC or Dante tried to exude.

Not gangsta per se, but certainly a kind of 'underground' vibe comes off of it (to me). But it's mainly a combination of factors. I have a hood on my coat, too - that doesn't make me look 'underground' or a wannabe cool guy in itself. But when you start walking with swagger, hands in your pockets or something, yeah, that makes it a lot weirder than if you were to do it without a hood. Or wearing a hood in bright daylight... everyone I've ever seen do that looked like an ass.

Who is to say that everything in Limbo is bad? We met Phineas in Limbo, who wanted nothing to do with fighting Dante. You have to remember that this trailer is trying to quickly establish a few details in under 90 seconds. The fact that Dante himself goes to Limbo to fight others means that not everyone there is going to be "evil".

I never said everything in Limbo is bad. I was saying that if that guy in the building would just stand or sit there with an intense look or half a smile, that establishes he's not a good guy. You don't need to put demon biatches beside him to make that point. Hence the reason why it looks cheap to me.

Apologies that things can't live up to your lofty standards. And you know...clichés aren't inherently bad. They're done because they work. They're common storytelling devices that are used because those are ways to properly tell stories. Sure, there's a few that aren't the best, but overall to try and avoid all clichés can be extremely detrimental to a story.

I think it's a bad trailer because of the *kind* of clichés. I have no problem with clichés - the DMC games were full of them. Perhaps your standards are just a tad low. Who is to say you are right and I'm wrong, or vice versa for that matter? I'm just saying it does not meet my demands, and I'm not trying to impress my views on you. There really is no need to debate this, as we all have different views on this.

A lot of what I said is rather subtle, like the use of the hood and whatnot, despite you hand-waving it to them "just trying to be cool". However, overall a trailer is designed to give you a quick glimpse into the world to pique interest, and being incredibly artsy and overly subtle for the sake of being incredibly artsy and overly subtle defeats the purpose of trying to tell people about your product.
In all honesty, you're sounding rather hipsterish >.>

'Artsy' and 'overly subtle' are your words, not mine. I'm saying the trailer did a lot of things that weren't necessary for us to know certain things. There was no need for Dante to walk slowly as the environment warped, there was no need for the guy in that building to have a harem. It could've all been avoided, and the message would still come across clearly. Instead, they chose to be overly obvious in everything, and IMO cheap. I've got a feeling that I'm not the only person on the planet to feel that way. Just as well, I realize there are at least as many people who feel the same way as you do.
Anyway, we're not going to agree on this, but thanks for the debate anyway.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

Well, should I say "Welcome back, Lionheart"?

No, cocky just means being very confident in your abilities. It simply means that you think you can beat somebody else - not by feeling overly good about yourself or saying anything about your heritage or anything like that.
Smug means that you think you're better than somebody else, i.e. when you act very pleased with yourself and sometimes would like to rub others' faces in it. Self-satisfied. That's a totally different thing than just being confident. It's right there on Wiktionary or merriam-webster.

Uuuhhhmmm...no.

Cocky
(Merriam-Webster) - having or showing confidence in a way that is annoying to other people
(Wiktionary) - Overly confident, arrogant and boastful.

Smug
(Merriam-Webster) - having or showing the annoying quality of people who feel very pleased or satisfied with their abilities, achievements, etc.
(Wiktionary) - Irritatingly pleased with oneself; self-satisfied.

Like I said, they're very interchangeable, and despite having a slight variation in their definitions, they are attributed similarly to people who think they are better than others, often annoyingly so.

I'm just saying it's a very cheap and cliché way of showing things, IMO. And I'll still maintain that this trailer is very much a way to make Dante look 'cool' in a cheap way. The way he looks when he triggers,

A close-up on the face to show those minute details?

the way he talks to that guy

Declaration of war, hunted becoming the hunter, yadda yadda yadda :/

the way he 'swaggers' to the building while the street is being warped

Less "swagger" and more "maintaining balance on warping terrain", and "moving through a crowd going the other way".

it all makes him look self-important, and it's annoying to me. If it isn't to you, fine. But you've got to realize that some people simply want Dante to be cool in what hedoes. Less words and presenting oneself as cool, and more action to support the idea that he's cool.

Actions like avoiding the sidewalk and walking across cars to cross the street? Or how about the last half of the trailer where he's comboing demons to death with his weapons? Or how he knocks on the door using a demon's face? There's plenty of cool actions in the trailer.

Y'know that thing, where when you see a person you don't like, and everything they do just ****es you off? That's the vibe I'm getting from you right now; "I don't like this Dante, so everything he does is bad".

I never said everything in Limbo is bad. I was saying that if that guy in the building would just stand or sit there with an intense look or half a smile, that establishes he's not a good guy. You don't need to put demon biatches beside him to make that point. Hence the reason why it looks cheap to me.

But, we don't see him stay there or give his little half-smile until after the things you had a problem with (the shows of excess and debauchery) happened. We already know that Dante can exist in Limbo, so who knows who else can? So far the trailer establishes that there's another dimension, and people can go to it. It's dangerous because of demons, but we don't know the scope of who is allowed to be there. Hell, in DmC itself we know of people who can be sent there that are both not Dante and not demons.

The first we see of the bankster is what establishes him as someone who is probably bad, via the harpies. If you take away the harpies and just had a bankster sitting behind his desk when Dante enters, you have no context for his character. He could be a good guy for all we know. His ordering the harpies to attack establishes him. Take away what you didn't care for, and you're left something that makes less sense than what is actually there.

When did I ever say anything about it needing to be 'artsy' or overly subtle? I'm saying the trailer did a lot of things that weren't necessary for us to know certain things. There was no need for Dante to swagger, there was no need for the guy in that building to have a harem. It could've all been avoided, and the message would still come across clearly. Instead, they chose to be overly obvious in everything, and IMO cheap.
Anyway, we're not going to agree on this, but thanks for the debate anyway.

When did you ever say anything about it needing to be subtle?

I like games and trailers to be a bit subtler than that.

Right there. I say you sounded hipsterish because that's a very high-brow thing to say, and putting that together with you finding everything to be lackluster just sorta reinforces why you feel that way; because you like games and trailers to be a bit more subtle than that.

It's not like it's beating you over the head with sh!t like the Jesus analogues in Man of Steel, it's just using its 90 seconds to vaguely establish a few things about the game. This isn't a friggin' Kingdom Hearts teaser, where Nomura wants you to analyse and dissect every second of it for clues.

Plus, you're not addressing this trailer as it was supposed to be addressed. You're addressing it as someone who knows everything about DmC already. This was originally shown to moviegoers, and like any other trailer, it's supposed to give an idea of the world and pique interest. The stuff you find "unnecessary" only seems that way because you know everything.

 

[Enigma]

Uuuhhhmmm...no.

Cocky
(Merriam-Webster) - having or showing confidence in a way that is annoying to other people
(Wiktionary) - Overly confident, arrogant and boastful.

Smug
(Merriam-Webster) - having or showing the annoying quality of people who feel very pleased or satisfied with their abilities, achievements, etc.
(Wiktionary) - Irritatingly pleased with oneself; self-satisfied.

Alright, I stand corrected.

Y'know that thing, where when you see a person you don't like, and everything they do just ****es you off? That's the vibe I'm getting from you right now; "I don't like this Dante, so everything he does is bad".

Let's get this out of the way: I saw this trailer before I even played the game, so I did not have an opinion on Dante at that point. Besides, I judge people based on what they say and do, not some 'feeling'. Please don't make assumptions about me.

Less "swagger" and more "maintaining balance on warping terrain", and "moving through a crowd going the other way".

Yeah, but he could've run instead of walking and jumping so casually. Didn't he do it over cars, as well? There's no point in that, it's just exposition. Exposition to show that Dante is 'a cool guy, not phased by anything'. It makes him look like a showoff, but not in the way the old Dante was a showoff. Old Dante was a showoff in doing stuff he was good at and smack-talking demons. This guy does the opposite, by making himself look good rather than making the demons look bad. Just walks cool and wrecks people's cars.

When did you ever say anything about it needing to be subtle?

I like games and trailers to be a bit subtler than that.

Right there. I say you sounded hipsterish because that's a very high-brow thing to say, and putting that together with you finding everything to be lackluster just sorta reinforces why you feel that way; because you like games and trailers to be a bit more subtle than that.

You said I wanted them to be OVERLY subtle or 'artsy'. I never said I did. What I did say was: I want games to be subter than that - as in, subtler than that trailer. Also, hipsterism has nothing to do with being highbrow. 'Hipsterism' is a style, not related to intelligence.

Plus, you're not addressing this trailer as it was supposed to be addressed. You're addressing it as someone who knows everything about DmC already. This was originally shown to moviegoers, and like any other trailer, it's supposed to give an idea of the world and pique interest. The stuff you find "unnecessary" only seems that way because you know everything.

I can see how you'd think that, but should I know everything about DmC to know that the guy sitting in that building is not an 'innocent'? No, of course not. I can tell from how he doesn't run away, doesn't fight back, and doesn't even look dismayed that he is not an innocent.
All the trailer needed to do was show that this guy was there on his own accord. They didn't need to show that by putting a harem around him. It's just unnecessarily trite and sort of obnoxious, IMO. The fact that a trailer needs to show things quickly and clearly does not excuse it. There are plenty of trailers that don't put harems around people just because they can.

Anyway, I respect your opinion, but that does not change mine. From my perspective, it's just not a great trailer. So many things could've been done better. That does not make me high-brow, that makes me somebody who has experience watching trailers and playing games, and due to that, having developed my own taste after all those years. There's no sense in what you're doing right now, because it's just arguing about my opinion. You can criticize me and I you, but it's not going to make a difference.

I say you sounded hipsterish because that's a very high-brow thing to say.

What does highbrow have to do with how subtle a trailer is? Highbrow means: Of, relating to, or being highly cultured or intellectual. I don't pretend to be any of that, and I don't see what it has to do with subtlety. Again, hipsters have nothing to do with highbrow stuff. Completely unrelated.

Believe it or not, I just didn't like the trailer. Not to my taste. Simple.
Aside from that, new Dante just seems smug to me when he says his name, and nobody likes smug people. You said trailers need to show things clearly (unambiguously) and quickly. If I wrongly got the impression that Dante was being smug to that guy, that means the trailer wasn't clear enough: it was ambiguous. Therefore, according to your standards, it's not a good trailer. Glad you agree.

 

[DantesLink]

Wow, I'm a tad bit surprised that my question got this amount of people; and in a week no less! Now that the momentum of the thread is over, I wanted to cap this discussion by thanking everyone for their genuine answers. Even though there are some that I can't agree with to a certain degree, I can at the very least understand where they are coming from and respect their opinion. Both sides of the argument have been burned the opposing sides (to put it bluntly) more ignorant and vocal lot.

Thank Y'all for your time.

 

[DragonMaster2010]

Yeah, but he could've run instead of walking and jumping so casually. Didn't he do it over cars, as well? There's no point in that, it's just exposition. Exposition to show that Dante is 'a cool guy, not phased by anything'. It makes him look like a showoff, but not in the way the old Dante was a showoff. Old Dante was a showoff in doing stuff he was good at and smack-talking demons. This guy does the opposite, by making himself look good rather than making the demons look bad. Just walks cool and wrecks people's cars.

Really? Because everything he did in that trailer was literally everything old Dante WOULD do. There's no if ands or buts about it. The only difference is that new Dante doesn't crack any jokes and keeps it all serious.

You said I wanted them to be OVERLY subtle or 'artsy'. I never said I did. What I did say was: I want games to be subter than that - as in, subtler than that trailer. Also, hipsterism has nothing to do with being highbrow. 'Hipsterism' is a style, not related to intelligence.

So what's Bayonetta to you?

I can see how you'd think that, but should I know everything about DmC to know that the guy sitting in that building is not an 'innocent'? No, of course not. I can tell from how he doesn't run away, doesn't fight back, and doesn't even look dismayed that he is not an innocent.
All the trailer needed to do was show that this guy was there on his own accord. They didn't need to show that by putting a harem around him. It's just unnecessarily trite and sort of obnoxious, IMO. The fact that a trailer needs to show things quickly and clearly does not excuse it. There are plenty of trailers that don't put harems around people just because they can.

So in DMC4 having pantiless Gloria is a okay right? and having Nervan without a bra in the trailer wasn't unneccesary at all? Yeah, i believe showing breast and sex scenes in trailers is rather juvenile, but I saw no nip shot or sex scene in that trailer.


Believe it or not, I just didn't like the trailer. Not to my taste. Simple.
Aside from that, new Dante just seems smug to me when he says his name, and nobody likes smug people.

Go ahead. Ask me how many issues and fans this smug bastard has?


You said trailers need to show things clearly (unambiguously) and quickly. If I wrongly got the impression that Dante was being smug to that guy, that means the trailer wasn't clear enough: it was ambiguous. Therefore, according to your standards, it's not a good trailer. Glad you agree.

Everyone's got their taste. Like when I saw the "homecoming" Prototype 2 trailer, I thought the game would be a sad story of revenge and loss. Then I play the game and it's pretty much destruction and...well this.

 

[Enigma]

Everyone's got their taste. Like when I saw the "homecoming" Prototype 2 trailer, I thought the game would be a sad story of revenge and loss. Then I play the game and it's pretty much destruction and...well this.

- No, I don't think what new Dante does in that trailer is 'exactly what the old Dante would do'. Old Dante focused on debasing opponents by defeating them with words first, and usually his sword later. What new Dante does there seems geared towards making himself look cool in a very obvious way. I don't see old Dante saying his name as though it makes him better than everyone else - he just doesn't care about that. All old Dante cared about was showing he was cool through his actions and words, not through making himself sound smug/arrogant. Like I said, old Dante would've rather made the demons look bad than make himself look like he's worth more than them.

- Again, I don't mean I want games and trailers to be subtle, I meant that the DmC trailer shown was a bit too obvious.

Bayonetta was a good game. Yeah, sure, it was obvious, in a way. Just not in the kind of cliché ''hey, I'm sitting here like a jackass pimp in the middle of demons'' way. I liked Bayonetta for its cheesiness too. It had a strong protagonist that pretty much hid behind this facade of 'sexiness' so as to fluster enemies and catch other people off guard. As you could see from the flashbacks and her finding the child version of herself, it becomes clear that she wasn't always like that. Anyway, she's mainly meant to be like an anime hero type of thing. She's a 'character' in the purest form, in the sense that she fills a certain role that allows her to be flamboyant. Most western characters actually try to be *as threedimensional as possible*, and sometimes I like that too. In the end, it's like comparing Johnny Bravo to the new Batman movies or something. Their characters shouldn't be held to the same standards.

- Gloria wore underwear, so I don't know if you've misinterpreted the scene. I don't see the problem; it was meant as a joke, whereas the harem standing around that guy in the trailer is dead serious. And that's sort of the problem with it; I can't take it seriously because it's so cliché, and because it's a particularly tasteless kind of cliché, IMO. Gloria fighting demons and ending their lives while being all sexy works as a kind of parody - it's funny to see something so unserious paired with something as serious as fighting demons.
Not sure what you're referring to with Nevan, but I don't remember seeing any offensive nudity.

Maybe it indeed comes down to taste. That's why I told TWOxACROSS it was pointless to debate it, since we weren't going to get a resolution out of it. We'd just agree to disagree and move on. I thought that DmC trailer was unnecessarily trite, he didn't. Fine. Time to move on.

 

[Demi-fiend]

Gloria had ZERO undercrackers.

 

[Enigma]

Gloria had ZERO undercrackers.

At around 3:40 you can very vaguely see something white (gray because of shadow, really), so yes, she is wearing underwear, it's just really thin. Damn, feelin' like a perv now :tongue:

 

[Rebel Dynasty]

At around 3:40 you can very vaguely see something white (gray because of shadow, really), so yes, she is wearing underwear, it's just really thin. Damn, feelin' like a perv now :tongue:

LOL! You're not alone. Every time I watch that cut scene, I'm trying to discern whether there's a strip of underwear, or if I'm imagining it.

The jury is honestly still out on that one; every time I think there is, I check again, and I'm not so sure...

 

[Demi-fiend]

That's not underwear... the carpets don't match the drapes.

Edit: 3:46

I. See. Nothing.

 

[DantesLink]

LOL! You're not alone. Every time I watch that cut scene, I'm trying to discern whether there's a strip of underwear, or if I'm imagining it.

The jury is honestly still out on that one; every time I think there is, I check again, and I'm not so sure...

With the magic of Model Extracting, that mystery can be solved!!!

 

[Rebel Dynasty]

X'D Lol! Let me know when you guys figure out for sure. I've had more than my fill of crotch gazing, thank you.

 

[Rebel Dynasty]

Gloria had ZERO undercrackers.

^ Also, this; every time I read this, I start laughing. Damn it Frostmourne!

Undercrackers? XD

 

[V's patron]

To be fair, reboots are a new practice with vaguely defined rules so Capcom had the misfortune of being the first to play the game, so to speak.

 

[DragonMaster2010]

- No, I don't think what new Dante does in that trailer is 'exactly what the old Dante would do'. Old Dante focused on debasing opponents by defeating them with words first, and usually his sword later. What new Dante does there seems geared towards making himself look cool in a very obvious way. I don't see old Dante saying his name as though it makes him better than everyone else - he just doesn't care about that. All old Dante cared about was showing he was cool through his actions and words, not through making himself sound smug/arrogant. Like I said, old Dante would've rather made the demons look bad than make himself look like he's worth more than them.

That legit makes little sense, but whatever floats your boat.



Bayonetta was a good game. Yeah, sure, it was obvious, in a way. Just not in the kind of cliché ''hey, I'm sitting here like a jackass pimp in the middle of demons'' way.

Yeah, it was more like "I'm a tall ass b!tch who uses my vagina hair as a deadly weapon" way.

I liked Bayonetta for its cheesiness too. It had a strong protagonist that pretty much hid behind this facade of 'sexiness' so as to fluster enemies and catch other people off guard. As you could see from the flashbacks and her finding the child version of herself, it becomes clear that she wasn't always like that.

Yeah, like new Dante who uses the facade of 'coolness' as a defense mechanism from being depressed from his demon filled life and puts on this facade to anger his enemies and catch them off their game. It's pretty much the same only Bayonetta is more anime over the top with it.

Anyway, she's mainly meant to be like an anime hero type of thing. She's a 'character' in the purest form, in the sense that she fills a certain role that allows her to be flamboyant. Most western characters actually try to be *as threedimensional as possible*, and sometimes I like that too. In the end, it's like comparing Johnny Bravo to the new Batman movies or something. Their characters shouldn't be held to the same standards.

You'd be surprised...

- Gloria wore underwear, so I don't know if you've misinterpreted the scene.
What was that?

I couldn't hear you

over the vagina in my face.


I don't see the problem; it was meant as a joke, whereas the harem standing around that guy in the trailer is dead serious.

Dead serious. Yeah, cause being in a moving demon world and killing demons in that world to heavy metal music is all srs bsnss. If anything, it was more of a parody of the big shot bankers hosting private dancers to their office cause they have money like that, WHICH does happen.

And that's sort of the problem with it; I can't take it seriously because it's so cliché, and because it's a particularly tasteless kind of cliché, IMO. Gloria fighting demons and ending their lives while being all sexy works as a kind of parody - it's funny to see something so unserious paired with something as serious as fighting demons.
Not sure what you're referring to with Nevan, but I don't remember seeing any offensive nudity.

So Nervan showing her breast, Gloria pantiles, and those demon luring pods from the giant frog are perfectly fine for the heterosexual female gamers to feel no form of ill comfort.

Maybe it indeed comes down to taste. That's why I told TWOxACROSS it was pointless to debate it, since we weren't going to get a resolution out of it. We'd just agree to disagree and move on. I thought that DmC trailer was unnecessarily trite, he didn't. Fine. Time to move on.

Fine. Let's move on then.

 

[DragonMaster2010]

- No, I don't think what new Dante does in that trailer is 'exactly what the old Dante would do'. Old Dante focused on debasing opponents by defeating them with words first, and usually his sword later. What new Dante does there seems geared towards making himself look cool in a very obvious way. I don't see old Dante saying his name as though it makes him better than everyone else - he just doesn't care about that. All old Dante cared about was showing he was cool through his actions and words, not through making himself sound smug/arrogant. Like I said, old Dante would've rather made the demons look bad than make himself look like he's worth more than them.

That legit makes little sense, but whatever floats your boat.



Bayonetta was a good game. Yeah, sure, it was obvious, in a way. Just not in the kind of cliché ''hey, I'm sitting here like a jackass pimp in the middle of demons'' way.

Yeah, it was more like "I'm a tall ass b!tch who uses my vagina hair as a deadly weapon" way.

I liked Bayonetta for its cheesiness too. It had a strong protagonist that pretty much hid behind this facade of 'sexiness' so as to fluster enemies and catch other people off guard. As you could see from the flashbacks and her finding the child version of herself, it becomes clear that she wasn't always like that.

Yeah, like new Dante who uses the facade of 'coolness' as a defense mechanism from being depressed from his demon filled life and puts on this facade to anger his enemies and catch them off their game. It's pretty much the same only Bayonetta is more anime over the top with it.

Anyway, she's mainly meant to be like an anime hero type of thing. She's a 'character' in the purest form, in the sense that she fills a certain role that allows her to be flamboyant. Most western characters actually try to be *as threedimensional as possible*, and sometimes I like that too. In the end, it's like comparing Johnny Bravo to the new Batman movies or something. Their characters shouldn't be held to the same standards.

You'd be surprised...

- Gloria wore underwear, so I don't know if you've misinterpreted the scene.
What was that?

I couldn't hear you

over the vagina in my face.


I don't see the problem; it was meant as a joke, whereas the harem standing around that guy in the trailer is dead serious.

Dead serious. Yeah, cause being in a moving demon world and killing demons in that world to heavy metal music is all srs bsnss. If anything, it was more of a parody of the big shot bankers hosting private dancers to their office cause they have money like that, WHICH does happen.

And that's sort of the problem with it; I can't take it seriously because it's so cliché, and because it's a particularly tasteless kind of cliché, IMO. Gloria fighting demons and ending their lives while being all sexy works as a kind of parody - it's funny to see something so unserious paired with something as serious as fighting demons.
Not sure what you're referring to with Nevan, but I don't remember seeing any offensive nudity.

So Nervan showing her breast, Gloria pantiles, and those demon luring pods from the giant frog are perfectly fine for the heterosexual female gamers to feel no form of ill comfort.

Maybe it indeed comes down to taste. That's why I told TWOxACROSS it was pointless to debate it, since we weren't going to get a resolution out of it. We'd just agree to disagree and move on. I thought that DmC trailer was unnecessarily trite, he didn't. Fine. Time to move on.

Fine. Let's move on then.

 

[InfernalOverkill]

As an elitist arsehole metalhead I'd just like to point out that there was no heavy metal in DmC. Or DMC for that matter.

 

[Enigma]

Fine. Let's move on then.

What I meant by 'parody' is that the developers of DMC4 intended it as a joke sort of like a sketch, while the harem standing around that guy is meant as *serious* exposition. Thought it was unnecessary.

Also, I don't see any actual reproductive organ... alright, that doesn't make it better XD... I just see skin, almost like she purposely changed form to be vajayjay-less :laugh:.

Yeah, we can debate this till we see blue. I thought Dante sounded smug, others didn't, the end. Also, I feel that there's no sense in criticizing characters like Bayonetta with the same standards as for, say, Joel from The Last of Us, because she wasn't meant to be incredibly deep. New Dante fits that bill more. With Bayonetta and DMC, I'm happy for the characters just to be characters.

Oh, and sorry for the semi-derailment of the thread. Like I said, I don't think NT handling the PR better would've mattered. People will either like the game or not. It's also impossible to determine whether the PR was detrimental to DmC, inconsequential, or even beneficial. On this forum, though, I'd say it's the middle option.

 

[Goldsickle]

A decade ago, MGS2's Raiden got much more hate and rejection from the Metal Gear fanbase and the gaming community (although I was one of the few who didn't mind him).

The hate was acknowledged to the point that series creator Hideo Kojima added a homosexual, effeminate Raiden look-a-like for you to beat up, strip and stuff into a locker in MGS3.


Fast-forward to 2008 (MGS4) and the present (MGR:R), all that hate for Raiden seems to have dissipated after his cyborg makeover.


I think if Raiden and Konami can recover from all of that, so can Capcom and the new Dante.
But will it take a cyborg makeover to make new Dante more loved?