How to bring the heavenly realm to DMC 5 : God and angels

[Freddy777]

DS13: That is similar to my framework. Did I send it to you? In any case, I think that would be one of the best ways to insinuate the Heavenly into the series, although it would render it basically impotent. I don't think humans should be descendents of fallen angels either, just regular angels.

Edit: The angels should not have Biblical names. Apocryphal names would be better, and names not ending in -el would be best. There are enough names out there to satisfy that criterion, believe me.

Don't know what DS13 is, so if you can explain your framework to me, that be great.
And the humans being descendents of fallen angels thing. Are you talking about darkslayer's idea. I think what he meant was that the angels who were defeated by the fallen angels became the ancestors of humans. The humans carry the souls of the good angels.
And if you don't like the biblical names, that's fine, b/c most of the names in the list are not found in the Bible, and some are Apocryphal names. And if you don't like them ending in -el, then there are other names that end in -ah or -as, which also means God, like "Azuriah" and "Ezequias". Or names starting with El- or Je-, again meaning God, like "Eleazaro" and "Jediah". All these names are not in the Bible.
But, if your problem is that you don't want any name that mentions God in it, then that's your opinion, I'm not going to stop you. Just make it a cool name, not a name that has had a bad reputation in history like "Nero".

 

[DreadnoughtDT]

Don't know what DS13 is, so if you can explain your framework to me, that be great.
And the humans being descendents of fallen angels thing. Are you talking about darkslayer's idea. I think what he meant was that the angels who were defeated by the fallen angels became the ancestors of humans. The humans carry the souls of the good angels.
And if you don't like the biblical names, that's fine, b/c most of the names in the list are not found in the Bible, and some are Apocryphal names. And if you don't like them ending in -el, then there are other names that end in -ah or -as, which also means God, like "Azuriah" and "Ezequias". Or names starting with El- or Je-, again meaning God, like "Eleazaro" and "Jediah". All these names are not in the Bible.
But, if your problem is that you don't want any name that mentions God in it, then that's your opinion, I'm not going to stop you. Just make it a cool name, not a name that has had a bad reputation in history like "Nero".

DS13 is the abbreviation of Darkslayer13's name, just thought I'd tell you.

 

[Freddy777]

thanks. I should remember that.

 

[DreadnoughtDT]

thanks. I should remember that.

Don't mention it. People call me DT, so I thought DS13 might've been obvious. Although, I tend to overestimate people a lot... Sorry.

Also, Azuriel would be a nice name, don't you think? Maybe it would work for a female angel.

 

[Freddy777]

I'm already in love with Lady, Trish, and Lucia. An angelic woman would be AWESOME.

 

[Freddy777]

I've got two things in my mind right now:

First, it has to do with Nero's mention of God. In the beginning of the DMC 4 game in the Order's church, he was never interested in what Sanctus was saying, especially since he was wearing earphones. And when he met Gloria and said their goodbyes, Gloria said something like "may the savior be with you", I think. Nero responded in a dismissive way by saying "Savior". Now when he was about to face the "Savior" statue at the end of the game, he said he hated that God gave him this arm, but never thought it would be used to destroy the "Savior". So here's my idea, since Nero doesn't believe in the Order's religion, but does believe in some "God", maybe when, in Nero's Past, Nero was attacked by a demon which injured his right shoulder, an angel or even God came to him and offered not only to heal his serious wound, but grant him the power of the demon that attacked him. And that demon probably had an encounter with Vergil in the past which led to it having some of Vergil's DNA embedded in its hand which later got stuck in Nero's right shoulder when the demon attacked him, thus when God or an angel granted him the power of that demon, he also gained the power of Vergil. And this is why the Yamato responded to him. Because of this demon attack on Nero, the Order put its distance away from Nero b/c they saw something different in him. That's why Nero did solo missions before DMC 4 and that's why he mentions God at the end of the game b/c God literally gave him that arm.

Second thing, in one of the animated series episodes Dante goes off to rescue a guy who was framed by a demon, who grants wishes of death, for killing his friend. When Dante gets him out of the prison of Hell they talk at a bar and the framed guy says not only did that demon kill his friend, but his sister died of sadness b/c he was sent to that prison. So he blames himself for his sister's death. But, Dante tells him that the person who gave him this job to rescue him was his sister and Dante gives him an item to prove it was his sister and the guy starts crying. When Dante leaves the bar he sees the guy's sister and later disappears with a smile on her face. She was a spirit who came to help her framed brother.
I'm wondering, where did she go? It can't be the demon world b/c only evil people go there. So there must be a Heaven where the ghostly woman went. Just another hint to show that Heaven, God, and angels are possible in the DMC world.
Sorry that it is so long, but I know it's going to stir some minds.

 

[DreadnoughtDT]

That is a very good point. Some people might argue that she simply faded out of existence or was taken to Hell anyway.

But me, I do believe you. Also, if I can find the picture, I can find a good one for Azuriel.

 

[moseslmpg]

The anime plays fast and loose with DMC canon anyway. It shouldn't be taken as a primary source. I'm 100% positive that such metaphysical questions never crossed the mind of Kobayashi, and he was just going for the cool factor.

 

[Freddy777]

I never said it was a primary source. I said it was hint or clue, and there are many other hints and clues throughout the game series. Because of what Kobayashi did, he has opened the possibility to the "Heavenly Realm". And since DMC 5 is in OUR hands to mold and shape, let's go for it.

 

[moseslmpg]

Kobayashi hasn't done anything except kill potential in the series as soon as he gained control.

And btw, I believe Kamiya postulated a final resting place for Eva, so anime ghosts aren't really needed for evidence.

Anyway, for names, by Apocryphal, I guess I meant just not well known. Like Thauthabaoth or something from Manichaean or Mandaean angelology.

 

[Freddy777]

Its getting late so I'll say this:

I'm not here to question whether kobayashi did a good job or not, but b/c of the choices he made, whether big or small, he has left us wondering if the heavenly things can be integrated in to the DMC story.

Again I'll say this, just b/c it doesn't NEED to be evidence doesn't mean it CAN'T be. I dwell in the POSSIBILITIES.

Alright, but I should warn you, there are -els, and -ahs, and Els-, and Jes- in there too.:lol:
But seriously, if we are going to pick a name, and a good one, its not going to be Thauthabaoth. Make it short, or at least easy to pronounce.

 

[moseslmpg]

Thauthabaoth is a fine name. Pronouncability is irrelevant IMO, since you're not going to be discussing these things with people in real life anyway.

As for the possibility of the Heavenly, I don't see anything that Kobayashi has done as opening up any possibility for it. Having a misguided cult that mentioned God and angels doesn't make them any more plausible.

I was just assuming this was a hypothetical question, but do you really thing they should be brought into the series based on DMC4? It would make things even more complicated than they are now IMO.

 

[Freddy777]

Even though Capcom said that DMC 5 would be tailored to what fans want, we ourselves are not going to create the game, that's Capcom's job.
So yes, this is just a hypothetical question.
But will it bother you that much if they do put God and angels in the game?
There are many games that have integrated gods and angels into their game, and most of the complaints were not on angels and gods, but on gameplay and/or plot.
Even the show "Supernatural", didn't integrate God and the angels into the series for some seasons. And when it did, it was all good.

 

[Freddy777]

An example of the former would be if Jesus showed up in a level and was like "Yo, for real, son. Peace out."

I have a funny idea.
What if Jesus was actually in the game.
For example, in GTA: San Andreas there is a building in Los Santos that has a stylish painting on its wall that says "JESUS SAVES".
And in DMC 4, when there was an explosion and blew away some newspapers, one of those papers said "Mundus vive".
So wouldn't it be funny if in DMC 5 there was an explosion that blew away some newspaper and one would come straight at the screen, and if one slo-moed it would read "JESUS SAVES", just to annoy the Jesus haters out there.
And at the bottom of that title it would say "Thus says the Lord: Yo, for real, son. Peace out."
They'd be like "Uhhh! I knew it! I knew they'd put Jesus in the game. This totally ruins DMC for me."
Well, it made my day.:lol:
It's just a joke.
But then again...it's not out of the question either.
And please moses, don't get me wrong. I'm NOT saying you're a Jesus hater. It's just a JOKE!

 

[Freddy777]

Thanks moses for sending me your Achamoth framework idea. It's a nice idea, but I've heard these kinds of stories before from Gnosticism, Manicheism, and various other heretical beliefs concerning the nature of God and pagan beliefs.
I'd say it's a good start, but I can't see it ever harmonizing if one part of the self is fighting the other part of the self.

 

[moseslmpg]

Even though Capcom said that DMC 5 would be tailored to what fans want, we ourselves are not going to create the game, that's Capcom's job.
So yes, this is just a hypothetical question.
But will it bother you that much if they do put God and angels in the game?
There are many games that have integrated gods and angels into their game, and most of the complaints were not on angels and gods, but on gameplay and/or plot.
Even the show "Supernatural", didn't integrate God and the angels into the series for some seasons. And when it did, it was all good.

DMC isn't Supernatural. Don't overestimate Capcom's competence. They can't even handle the series with just demons and humans. Adding angels and God will make it a real mess. And I have made my beliefs clear, that the manga precludes any existence of a God or angels or Heaven in the conventional sense, since the human world is the world of light.

If Jesus really said that stuff, I think he would make a fine addition to the series It would be nice in DMC had some kind of internal TV shows or comics like GTA.

 

[DreadnoughtDT]

I don't think DMC needs to make much sense, to be perfectly honest. I would like it if it made enough to sustain itself, but it can't even do that sometimes. Real bummer.

 

[darkslayer13]

DS13: That is similar to my framework. Did I send it to you? In any case, I think that would be one of the best ways to insinuate the Heavenly into the series, although it would render it basically impotent. I don't think humans should be descendents of fallen angels either, just regular angels.

you did send me your idea but i wasn't thinking about it when i came up with mine. now that i think about it my idea is alot like what you sent me.

i didn't say that the humans were decendents of fallen angels. i said that the fallen lived in the world of darkness with the demons and the souls of the angels (meaning the normal ones) became the souls of the humans.sorry if my wording was confusing,

 

[Freddy777]

Hey guys, I'm back.
I found this great music video song. Actually I've known about it for some time, but I don't know why I did't think of it sooner. It is actually two songs and it's called "Oh, Sleeper- Son of the Morning vs. The Finisher".
This might or might not be on topic, it does have God, angels, and the fallen one Lucifer. This song captures perfectly the battle b/w Good and evil.
And Yes, it is a Christian song, but that shouldn't matter since our topic is on God and angels.
Also, this music video song is metalcore. So this is for all you Metal lovers, and Christian Metal lovers, and Headbangers out there.
I hope this will also inspire you with your ideas as well.
Enjoy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkWvl1_zb_Q

 

[Freddy777]

I think I found a solution to the playable character problem.
Although, I'm still sticking to a human vessel/angel playable character.

But, hopefully this will satisfy those who don't want another playable character, yet angels can still be in the gameplay.

How about this, the angel appears in the gameplay, not as a playable character, but as part of Dante's and Nero's arsenal of weapons. Of course, they won't be weapons like devil arms, but instead as a summoned secret weapon.
Picture this, Dante has a second meter which takes longer to fill than his Devil Trigger. He is surrounded by tons of enemies and can't seem to get out, luckily his secret weapon meter is full and is able to use it. I'll probably call it "Angel Caller" or something.
Anyways, when Dante uses it, he shouts out his angel's name "Michaaael" or "Tyraaael", and immediately, like lightning fast, he appears above Dante and covers him in a barrier, which expands outward, and any enemies that either touches or attackes the barrier shield surrounding Dante is blown away. Lower enemies are destroyed immediately and tougher demons are severly damaged.
It's like a last resort kind of a thing.

Ideas, comments anyone.