How much of DMC's gameplay is in DmC?
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Demi-fiend
Metempsychosis
I actually thought that line was kind of corny. Still, it works in its own way (better than "flock off featherface" imho).
TWOxACROSS
Hot-blooded God of Guns
"Donkey punch!" will always reign supreme in my book :tongue:
Demi-fiend
Metempsychosis
Never thought of it that way. With a few gameplay (and story) modifications here and there, I think there might be a way to make it all fit.
Even I managed to put almost all the functions into one controller (let me know if you want to see). Why can't Capcom/NT??
TWOxACROSS
Hot-blooded God of Guns
It is a lot of extra coding to do >.< There was a lot they could add to DMC3 and DMC4 because the control scheme was optimized for it pretty well.
With DmC's, it was all new, but it could totally be better with tweaks.
Demi-fiend
Metempsychosis
Once again, hadn't thought of that.
Thinking was never my strong suit anyway... >.>
Chancey289
Fake Geek Girl.
Of course it was corny. That's why I liked it. Donkey Punch was amusing too though.
DragonMaster2010
Don't Let the Fall of America be Your Fall
I liked "It's on, bitch!"
It wasn't a long speech of a one liner and straight to the point.
Chancey289
Fake Geek Girl.
TWOxACROSS
Hot-blooded God of Guns
So much this!
DragonMaster2010
Don't Let the Fall of America be Your Fall
And who can forget the famous
TWOxACROSS
Hot-blooded God of Guns
Claaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaassic.
TWOxACROSS
Hot-blooded God of Guns
Claaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaassic.
OppressedWriter
SamD
About the Lock on
-Try placing Center camera on R1 and use it like a lock on, and you'll stop having the issues you're having.
- about trying to demon pull an enemy when they're bunched up, how is that any different that using Nero's pull?
- how would a lock on change the fact that you'd have to toggle between targets to find the right one still?
- Also, when the enemies bunch up, that's the point, they're trying to prevent your from demon pulling their allies. The harpies and cherubs are supposed to be annoying, they're deliberately flanking you or bunching up.
For example, do you ever notice how if you fight a blue and red knight, how they tend to stay close to each other, that's on purpose, people complain about spamming pulls, but that's the balance in some encounters, the enemies try to take advantage of players who don't use crowd control tactics against a crowd.
The trick is to use Dante's massive arsenal to separate targets or interrupt their attacks, divide and conquer, a level 3 ricoshot shot staggers and spreads out enemies for a reason, same thing with fireworks, stomp, and slam.
About Dante's Aerial Options
But I think I've mentioned it before, just because he has a hundred options doesn't mean you don't have to be creative and skillful to execute stylish combos. The execution barrier is putting on a spectacle with the all the tools at your disposable and not just spamming ugly jump cancels and demon pulls without any payoffs or kickers.
About the bosses:
Yes, technically every boss is easy to just cheese and beat, no different than mastering Distortion and uppercutting berial to oblivion. But the awesome thing about DmC's bosses is how much flexibility most of them allow for the player to be creative and stylish in how they defeat them.
I particularly love Hunter, Bob Barbas, Mundus Spawn, and Vergil, they all are great fights where you can really direct the action and put on seriously epic fights. The biggest flaw with the Vergil fight is his health, it should have been 3-4x the amount that it is in the vanilla game.
For Example, why not fight Hunter like this?
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MKH Spartan
Well-known Member
Because I would have already been locked on to my target and held it down so as to not lose track of my intended target in the mob of enemies, otherwise I won't know what one I have been hitting up.
Fact of the matter is I shouldn't be able to just DT and kill the boss in one stagger, it's stupid and DT is effectively god mode in DmC. At least the Distortion strategies have an execution barrier behind them, plus Berial's AI is pretty stupid anyway, he just walks around the arena laughing at you for the first 50% of his health or so lol....
Also, I take the more practical method of dealing with enemies, why take a battle I find boring and make it harder on myself? The only boss fight I enjoy is the Vergil one, which I will gladly play over and over a fair bit, as it reminds me a bit of the final Vergil boss fight in DMC3, just a much easier/more simplified version. Oh, and he doesn't sit there throwing stupid insults my way the whole damn battle, and I can skip his cutscenes.
OppressedWriter
SamD
That's the problem
That's the problem though, NT was asked to do their spin on the DmC franchise, and their game design focus was to empower the player SO that they themselves would try to be as stylish as possible. In one of the interviews, which I'll try to find, the lead combat designer actually mentions how all the enemies were designed around providing the player ways to creatively combo on.
Here is the video to the at the specific point. Go to 7:00.
Hunter: You can angel pull his face and beat the whole fight while staying in the air.
Succubus: You can parry her swipes and do a nice demontug stun or you can DT at convenient moments to grab her face and beat her also by staying mostly in the air.
Barbas
one of my favs) You can really go to town styling on this boss with parrying his attacks and using DT to rack up points without damaging him.
Mundus Spawn: Also possible to beat this boss by staying the air, hell I think they expected advanced players to try, you can angel pull between the blue crystal and his eye.
Vergil: You haven't really seen this fight in its full glory unless you take Vergil into the air and finish him off in the sky, with helicopters and lightning all around you.
The DT abuse is balanced in two ways, first is that the game is again about being as stylish and creative as possible during combat and second, its about getting the highest score, both of which are going to suffer greatly if you just beat bosses with DT and don't take your sweet time styling on them.
Also, the notion of Distortion having an execution barrier is highly exaggerated, its pretty easy to do DT on a basic level and dish out significant damage, all you do is cancel in and out of devil trigger while performing certain attacks. I'd say that's equivalent to learning how to plant 6 kabloeey's, get SSS rank, demon dodge, activate Dt and detonate for maximum points in DmC.
Ultimately, I think the issue is that DmC is about the player dictating the flow and rhythm of battle vs the game forcing it on the player. DmC combines Arkham Asylums combat rhythm with the combo variety of the Devil May Cry series.
That's the problem though, NT was asked to do their spin on the DmC franchise, and their game design focus was to empower the player SO that they themselves would try to be as stylish as possible. In one of the interviews, which I'll try to find, the lead combat designer actually mentions how all the enemies were designed around providing the player ways to creatively combo on.
Here is the video to the at the specific point. Go to 7:00.
Hunter: You can angel pull his face and beat the whole fight while staying in the air.
Succubus: You can parry her swipes and do a nice demontug stun or you can DT at convenient moments to grab her face and beat her also by staying mostly in the air.
Barbas
one of my favs) You can really go to town styling on this boss with parrying his attacks and using DT to rack up points without damaging him.Mundus Spawn: Also possible to beat this boss by staying the air, hell I think they expected advanced players to try, you can angel pull between the blue crystal and his eye.
Vergil: You haven't really seen this fight in its full glory unless you take Vergil into the air and finish him off in the sky, with helicopters and lightning all around you.
The DT abuse is balanced in two ways, first is that the game is again about being as stylish and creative as possible during combat and second, its about getting the highest score, both of which are going to suffer greatly if you just beat bosses with DT and don't take your sweet time styling on them.
Also, the notion of Distortion having an execution barrier is highly exaggerated, its pretty easy to do DT on a basic level and dish out significant damage, all you do is cancel in and out of devil trigger while performing certain attacks. I'd say that's equivalent to learning how to plant 6 kabloeey's, get SSS rank, demon dodge, activate Dt and detonate for maximum points in DmC.
Ultimately, I think the issue is that DmC is about the player dictating the flow and rhythm of battle vs the game forcing it on the player. DmC combines Arkham Asylums combat rhythm with the combo variety of the Devil May Cry series.
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MKH Spartan
Well-known Member
I think the whole game needs a difficulty upgrade, the only point of the game I find remotely difficult is the battle against the two Dreamrunners and the Witch at once on Mission 16, and that probably wouldn't be too bad if I took the time to learn to fight Dreamrunners correctly, but the game is easy enough I don't even need to do it..... it took me so many tries to beat the third version of Vergil on my first DMD playthrough of DMC3 and it felt so satisfying when I did it, on DmC I just curbstomped him into the ground and went "Oh, right, I won. Ok then".
OppressedWriter
SamD
I just want to be clear by the way. I'm not saying that you're wrong when you say its easier if you're the type of player that enjoys a more counter, reactionary style of playing. DmC isn't designed around that kind of practical playstyle and is really at its best when you approach it like a combo sandbox arcade game, where your goal for each encounter is to string together one long aggressive stylish combo while seamlessly transitioning between targets.
As for the enemies, they definitely should have increased the overall health of certain enemies and bosses, which would not only increase the difficulty of some encounters, but also make DT more useful as a tool for dealing out high damage.
Also, there could have been a few more middle tier enemies that were anti-air, where you'd have to use some mixture of techniques if you wanted to fight them without touching the ground. I think the harpies are great, especially love slow dodging their little flutter attack, more enemies like that would allow each encounter to have a little more risk without being too limiting.
Lastly, I agree the regular DmC Vergil fight is flawed. It could have easily increased in difficulty without sacrificing the core design philosophy behind DmC. In fact, I did that myself using some moves that were left out of his moveset in the final game, but were actually in his character files.
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TWOxACROSS
Hot-blooded God of Guns
This is sort of the thing with DmC's Devil Trigger, it's not a power amp like in the classics, and it takes a long time to generate magic, and that magic depletes at an incredible rate. There's a balance to how much power it offers with how long it takes to get it, and how easily it slips away.
Demi-fiend
Metempsychosis
Just to be clear, the lack of a lock-on was Itsuno's idea, not NT's. I'm pretty sure NT asked to keep it in, but Itsuno most likely flat-out refused.
TWOxACROSS
Hot-blooded God of Guns
Yeah, Itsuno had mentioned that he wanted to get rid of the lock-on back in DMC3, but couldn't find a way to make everything work well enough in the time he was given.
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