Final Verdict (may contain spoilers)

[tatsumarublack]

I won't argue about the modes, fine. But how can the weapons have the same animations though? Besides the defaults (Rebellion, Red Queen, , Ebony Ivory, Blue Rose, and Coyote A) the only type of weapon both games contain is a set of gauntlets and greaves, and Gilgamash and Barlog have almost completely different movesets. Plus it's not like the game didn't add any features. We got V, who's playstyle is very different from Dante and Nero's. Nero got his Devil Breakers which give him additional abilities. Dante got a new sword that incorporates Rebellion's Swordmaster skills to it's base moveset and gives him his own version of summoned swords, and added the Sin Devil Trigger. Also unlike DMC4, which was again infamous for it's backtracking. Each character in DMC5 (With the exception of Urizen/Vergil serving as a recurring boss) has their own boss fights. I say that adds up to a lot more then an updated DMC4.

The Rebellion is obviously copied and pasted from DMC4 and Sparda is the same just a weapon palette swap. The Devil Sword Dante contains many animations from those previous 2 weapons as well, with the only additions being the summon swords and the SDT. The Balrog contains alot of moves from the gilgamesh and even beowulf including rising dragon, real impact, volcano, killer bee. So as you can see, though Balrog is more unique from its predecessors due to it's stance change ability, it's still using alot of the same animations. Technically balrog's kick mode launcher in swordmaster is Vergil's launcher from DMC3 with the beowulf, that Dante also had in DMC4 in DT with Gilgamesh. Cerberus, well...most of its moveset is brought from DMC3 except for the new additions with the lightning and fire modes. The only weapon that contains no animation from a previous game for Dante is literally the cavalier and the Faust Hat. Now I know one of the things that can be said is, these are Dante's standard moves for these particular weapons...for example, combo 2 into million stab is a standard combo for his swords. Thats cool, but if you're going to give me 3 different swords where he uses a similar moveset such as the Sparda...make it like I suggested before with the Sparda being a heavier sword that does more damage. Or you can introduce brand new moves instead of giving every sword the same aerial rave, the same dance macabre, roundtrip, etc.

Nero, is almost literally DMC4 Nero with the new devil breaker abilities. 90% of what he has with the Red Queen and the Blue Rose are copied and pasted from DMC4. Most of his DT abilities are copied and pasted from DMC4 as well. Exceed is the same, there hasn't been any real change to it besides it being easier to get Max Act and of course adding it to the small amount of new moves we actually got with the Red Queen. Devilbreakers is pretty much what makes playing Nero intriguing to play as. He gets no additional melee or range weapon. It would've been cool to have to learn the timings for Exceed not only for the Red Queen, but another additional weapon.

Which leaves V...which is the only thing that is sorta brand spanking new. I mean, his summons are literally enemies from DMC1 and they have alot of moves taken straight from that game, but I don't say that to take away from him...I'd just like to mention it. He's interesting to play as at first, but compared to the depth that is available with Dante and Nero...he gets mundane very fast. V has like 5-6 missions that are uniquely his own, and others that are optional.

You may not have "backtracking" in the terms of a literal sense, but you visit the same environment repeatedly and fight the same boss (Urizen) way too many times.

So you have 2 characters who have 80-85% of their moves copied and pasted from DMC4 and 3 to a lesser extent, and 1 totally new character who doesn't match the depth of the other 2. You have environments being reused again and again, and bosses being reused again and again, even the final boss is one that we've faced in 2 other games before. You fight the Cavalier with Dante and V (Technically the Cavalier rides Geryon, so in a way...3 times). You fight Artemis with Nero and V, and you fight Goliath with Nero and V. So, yeah...while not all of the bosses are reused, a huge chunk of them are. In addition to what I've already mentioned previously, I'm not seeing how after 10+ years you don't expect more from Capcom. Is this what DMC4 should've been? I guess you could say that, but since DMC4 is and was ages ago...this should've been leaps and bounds better in all aspects...not just in terms of graphics and presentation. In all other factors, it's just marginally better than DMC4. Again my opinion, and I'll just leave it there. :thumbsup:

 

[Stylish Nero]

You may not have "backtracking" in the terms of a literal sense, but you visit the same environment repeatedly and fight the same boss (Urizen) way too many times.

The only environment you visit repeatedly is a small area before Urizen's throne room and you only pass by that area like 3 times. DMC1, 2, 3, and 4 all have moments have you go through certains more than once. Now if you're complaint about the Prologue, the last quarter of Mission 8, and Mission 10 look too similar then yeah I can see your point somewhat but due to story reasons that is why that is the case and I guess I can give you the last half of Mssion 14 and most of Mission 15 although those Missions takes place in the same area at the same time. Also out of 20 and a half Missions. That is the least amount of repeating areas in a DMC game (well not if you count DmC). I'm not going to go measure every polygon of unique areas in every DMC game but I'm fairly certain DMC5 wins out the other DMC games in this regard.

As for repeating bosses

So you have 2 characters who have 80-85% of their moves copied and pasted from DMC4 and 3 to a lesser extent, and 1 totally new character who doesn't match the depth of the other 2.

That is quite the math you made there lets check that well as far as Dante goes

Devil Sword Dante

1. Combo A
2. Combo B
3. Combo C (incorporates Prop and Shredder into the moveset)
4. Stinger
5. Aerial Rave
6. High Time
7. Million Stab
8. Drive
9. Overdrive
10. Swords Formation (NEW and adds way more new options and depth to Dante's kit)
11. Dance Macabre
12. Four Handed (NEW)
13. Stingers (NEW)
14. High Times (NEW)
15. Round Trips (A drastically different version of a old move so new)

Balrog

Punch Mode

1. Light Blow Combo (NEW)
2. Heavy Jolt (serves the same function of Straight but without the back dash so sort of new and sort of old)
3. Fly Dragon (NEW)
4. Welter Move (NEW)
5. Bantam Revenge (NEW)
6. Feather Combo (NEW)
7. Middle Break (NEW)
8. Cruiser Drive (its Spark/Sparkling and Volcano so old)
9. Minimum Dragon
10. Rising Dragon (old but new method of executing it)
11. Divine Dragon (same as Rising Dragon)
12. Real Impact (old but must be ignited to use now)
13. Mode Change (NEW FEATURE)
14. Ignition (NEW feature that changes how charge/power up attacks work)

Kick Mode

1. Combo A (NEW COMBO)
2. Combo B (NEW COMBO)
3. Friction
4. Ignition Dance (NEW)
5. Updraft (You said its like Vergil's DT Lunar Phase (DMC4SE) or Rising Sun but the animations are very different Rising Sun is a spinning rising front kicks like Chun Li's Tensho Kyaku while Updraft is basically Guile's Flash Kick, Updraft and Lunar Phase is about as similar as Stinger and Streak they accomplish a similar thing but are drastically different if you look at the animation and that Updraft puts you at an equal elevation of the enemy whereas Rising Sun knocks them a bit higher and you can choose to hold Rising Sun to go in the air or not where Updraft doesn't have that option and Rising Sun hits the enemy twice while Updraft only hits once so NEW) Please know what you're talking about
6. Rolling Blaze
7. Break Spiral (NEW)
8. Firestorm (NEW)
9. Flint Wheel (NEW)
10. Pyromania (its Kick 13 but needed to be ignited)

Out of Balrog's 23 moves only like 7 is returning from past gauntlets/greaves and those are essentials at this point (like what a punch based weapon not having uppercuts or straight punches?) and you get gauntlet weapons every game (minus DMC2) so what is the problem here.

Cavaliere like you said is completely new (so count that as 14/15 if you count Cavaliere R)

King Cerberus
Ice

1. Combo A
2. Combo B
3. Swing
4. Revolver (can now be performed in the air)
5. Crystal (replaces Windmill as the back move)
6. Ice Age (no longer mapped to Sword Master)

Fire

1. Combo C (NEW)
2. Combo D (NEW)
3. Role Play (similar to the end of DMC3 Crazy Dance so debatable)
4. Combustion (NEW)
5. Hot Stuff (NEW)

Lighting

1. Long Barrel (NEW)
2. Long Revolver (Its NEW but its also a longer and faster version of Revolver)
3. Thunder Clap (NEW but resembles Nevan's lightning bat summons somewhat)
4. Revolution (NEW)
5. Turbulence (NEW)
6. Regicide (NEW)
7. Percussion (NEW but it appears to be the lightning version of Million Carats)

Its tough to say but out of King Cerberus 19 moves like 6 - 9 are old moves so about half of the weapon is new and old. Also there is nothing wrong with returning weapons as long as they are upgraded and changed enough to justify it like King Cerberus and especially Balrog. Especially when you have tons of fans demanding weapons like Agni and Rudra (understandable), Nevan (eww), and Alastor (don't see why it should unless Trish gets it).

Then you have Sin DT (which is oddly independent from DSD) and rather than list the moves since they're all new its 10.


Ebony and Ivory

TwoSome Time works completely differently now with Gunslinger making shoot Ivory and style ebony and you can now choose which gun to shoot and where and they have different properties adding far more dynamics to E&I while in Gunslinger.
In Gunslinger E&I automatically charge and they're independent from each other.
Honeycomb Shot is now an independent move that doesn't have to be chained from Twosome Time and thus can come out more instantaneously now.
Rainstorm now has built inertia that can be used to move you from place to place

Coyote A

1. Charge Shot
2. Fireworks
3. Shotgun Stinger
4. Backslider
5. Cut In/Cut Out, Cut Left (this one is hard to count but lets count it as 1 move to keep it simple. Its just 1 simple move with a lot of possibilities and uses SO NEW)

Kalina Ann/Kalina Ann 2/Double Kalina Ann

1. Howizter Shot
2. High Explosive
3. Multiple (altered from Lady's version and now has 2 versions where you can either hit a single target or target all nearby enemies)
4. Blaster (its NEW you can say its the same as Lady's double jump in DMC4SE but 1) it doesn't give Dante a second jump and 2) it launches enemies into the air whereas Lady's double jump in DMC4SE doesn't and that they different animations)
5. Hysteric
6. Cascade (NEW)
7. Mega Cascade (NEW)

*Double Kalina Ann is mostly the same as Kalina Ann but it has double the firing rate so it fires twice as much missiles in moves and can fire twice as fast with Howizter Shot and Blaster
*Holding down the gunslinger button with Double Kalina Ann equipped dismounts one Kalina Ann to use one Kalina Ann and have that moveset instead of Double Kalina (cool hidden feature but don't really see much benefit so far outside a different charge shot and the fact using the same move again but with either Kalina Ann or Double Kalina Ann will still raise style meter)

Faust Hat is completely NEW and comes with 8 moves

So lets do the math here. Only counting melee focused options (excluding Trickster and RoyalGuard) and excluding Rebellion/Sparda. Dante's combat focused moveset is 108 moves in total and ONLY 38-40 of that is returning moves. Even if you throw in Royal Guard and Trickster the amount of "recycled" moves are still less than 50%. You need to retake algebra boi.

Nero is a story for another time.

Lets not forget that the Swords Formation adds way more depth and more tools to Dante's disposal especially since it provides longer attack range and special attack formations that vary based on moves (carry over to other weapons), extra dashes (that can inflict damage) and an extra air jump in Trickster, automatic defense in Royal Guard, and shoots at nearby enemies in Gunslinger.

You have environments being reused again and again, and bosses being reused again and again, even the final boss is one that we've faced in 2 other games before. You fight the Cavalier with Dante and V (Technically the Cavalier rides Geryon, so in a way...3 times). You fight Artemis with Nero and V, and you fight Goliath with Nero and V. So, yeah...while not all of the bosses are reused, a huge chunk of them are. In addition to what I've already mentioned previously, I'm not seeing how after 10+ years you don't expect more from Capcom. Is this what DMC4 should've been? I guess you could say that, but since DMC4 is and was ages ago...this should've been leaps and bounds better in all aspects...not just in terms of graphics and presentation. In all other factors, it's just marginally better than DMC4. Again my opinion, and I'll just leave it there. :thumbsup:

That is such a superfluous example especially for a series that has repeat bosses all the time especially DMC1 and DMC3 (well DMC4 is no better either probably a lot worst in this regard). In those games you refought ALL the bosses (minus Lady and Arkham in 3 and stupidly not Credo and gratefully not the Savior in 4 granted in DMC1 you fought every boss 3 times and DMC3 has you fight Vergil 3 times) at least once. In DMC5 you only refought Urizen (ok maybe 4 times was overdoing it but it was mainly due to story reasons and final form Urizen deviates very far from his last 3 fights), Vergil, and weaker versions of Cavaliere Angelo, Artemis, and Goliath and unlike DMC1/3 its far more justified since V plays drastically different from Nero/Dante so its a different experience. And just cause Cavaliere is riding Geryon its NOT the same boss fight as Cavaliere Angelo (that is a pile of HORSE oop:oop:oop:oop. The two fights are mechanically and drastically different. That is like saying you fought the Savior as Nero in DMC4 because Sanctus used him a bit in his boss fight against Nero. The only DMC game to not have repeat boss fights was DmC.

Its Capcom tradition to have repeat boss fights or boss rushes. They're going to keep implementing them in a lot of their games no matter how much people bitch about it. Although I like boss rushes (I really don't get the hate unless if they're done well like in DMC3, or the bosses chosen were good and not tedious, and I honestly found DMC5's mini boss rush the best attempt in the series with more effort and thought put into it than past entries).

Also its not like the game was made within 10 years. It had a dev cycle of little over 3 years. Game length as long as DMC3 but with zero backtracking, boss and enemy roster on par with DMC3's size (with debate ably better quality in most areas). Best enemy variety in the series or at least tied to DMC1. Nuanced combat mechanics for (at least 2 characters) dripping with near limitless possibilities, a new drastically different play style with its own hurdles to make, visuals this good, models and animations with tons of work put into them, exuding with extreme detail at every corner, and making sure all enemies and bosses could work and are designed for 3 characters with drastically different playstyles. To me feels like an AAA DMC game made in 3 years which is what it is. As someone who studied Game Design and Coding before changing to Concept Art/Vis Dev I can say Game Development doesn't work like that.

I'm one for all having different opinions (don't care where you rank the series) but when you spout "facts" that are objectively WRONG or pure nonsense to undermine all the hard work and effort that a team put behind a project (especially when the director threatened to leave his job to have your dumb sequel to a capitalistic product made) people will call you out.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE][/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

 

[DreadnoughtDT]

@tatsumarublack The Gun Stinger for the Coyote-A isn't anything new, it's been a move since 3. So Gunslinger has no new moves besides auto-charge.

 

[Stylish Nero]

@tatsumarublack The Gun Stinger for the Coyote-A isn't anything new, it's been a move since 3. So Gunslinger has no new moves besides auto-charge.

Actually he is referring to Cut In, Cut out. Its a move where during performing Gun Stinger you tilt the L stick in any direction and press the style button and Dante cancels or transitions (based on timing) Gun Stinger into a slide where he shoots the shotgun and you can chain multiple sliding shotgun blasts.

 

[DreadnoughtDT]

Actually he is referring to Cut In, Cut out. Its a move where during performing Gun Stinger you tilt the L stick in any direction and press the style button and Dante cancels or transitions (based on timing) Gun Stinger into a slide where he shoots the shotgun and you can chain multiple sliding shotgun blasts.

I did not know that. Shows how much I've used Gunslinger.

 

[Foxtrot94]

@Stylish Nero
I like your refutation but your post is a little messed up, bro. Like your own response is in quotation boxes.

 

[DarkSlayerVergil]

The only environment you visit repeatedly is a small area before Urizen's throne room and you only pass by that area like 3 times. DMC1, 2, 3, and 4 all have moments have you go through certains more than once. Now if you're complaint about the Prologue, the last quarter of Mission 8, and Mission 10 look too similar then yeah I can see your point somewhat but due to story reasons that is why that is the case and I guess I can give you the last half of Mssion 14 and most of Mission 15 although those Missions takes place in the same area at the same time. Also out of 20 and a half Missions. That is the least amount of repeating areas in a DMC game (well not if you count DmC). I'm not going to go measure every polygon of unique areas in every DMC game but I'm fairly certain DMC5 wins out the other DMC games in this regard.

As for repeating bosses



That is quite the math you made there lets check that well as far as Dante goes

Devil Sword Dante

1. Combo A
2. Combo B
3. Combo C (incorporates Prop and Shredder into the moveset)
4. Stinger
5. Aerial Rave
6. High Time
7. Million Stab
8. Drive
9. Overdrive
10. Swords Formation (NEW and adds way more new options and depth to Dante's kit)
11. Dance Macabre
12. Four Handed (NEW)
13. Stingers (NEW)
14. High Times (NEW)
15. Round Trips (A drastically different version of a old move so new)

Balrog

Punch Mode

1. Light Blow Combo (NEW)
2. Heavy Jolt (serves the same function of Straight but without the back dash so sort of new and sort of old)
3. Fly Dragon (NEW)
4. Welter Move (NEW)
5. Bantam Revenge (NEW)
6. Feather Combo (NEW)
7. Middle Break (NEW)
8. Cruiser Drive (its Spark/Sparkling and Volcano so old)
9. Minimum Dragon
10. Rising Dragon (old but new method of executing it)
11. Divine Dragon (same as Rising Dragon)
12. Real Impact (old but must be ignited to use now)
13. Mode Change (NEW FEATURE)
14. Ignition (NEW feature that changes how charge/power up attacks work)

Kick Mode

1. Combo A (NEW COMBO)
2. Combo B (NEW COMBO)
3. Friction
4. Ignition Dance (NEW)
5. Updraft (You said its like Vergil's DT Lunar Phase (DMC4SE) or Rising Sun but the animations are very different Rising Sun is a spinning rising front kicks like Chun Li's Tensho Kyaku while Updraft is basically Guile's Flash Kick, Updraft and Lunar Phase is about as similar as Stinger and Streak they accomplish a similar thing but are drastically different if you look at the animation and that Updraft puts you at an equal elevation of the enemy whereas Rising Sun knocks them a bit higher and you can choose to hold Rising Sun to go in the air or not where Updraft doesn't have that option and Rising Sun hits the enemy twice while Updraft only hits once so NEW) Please know what you're talking about
6. Rolling Blaze
7. Break Spiral (NEW)
8. Firestorm (NEW)
9. Flint Wheel (NEW)
10. Pyromania (its Kick 13 but needed to be ignited)

Out of Balrog's 23 moves only like 7 is returning from past gauntlets/greaves and those are essentials at this point (like what a punch based weapon not having uppercuts or straight punches?) and you get gauntlet weapons every game (minus DMC2) so what is the problem here.

Cavaliere like you said is completely new (so count that as 14/15 if you count Cavaliere R)

King Cerberus
Ice

1. Combo A
2. Combo B
3. Swing
4. Revolver (can now be performed in the air)
5. Crystal (replaces Windmill as the back move)
6. Ice Age (no longer mapped to Sword Master)

Fire

1. Combo C (NEW)
2. Combo D (NEW)
3. Role Play (similar to the end of DMC3 Crazy Dance so debatable)
4. Combustion (NEW)
5. Hot Stuff (NEW)

Lighting

1. Long Barrel (NEW)
2. Long Revolver (Its NEW but its also a longer and faster version of Revolver)
3. Thunder Clap (NEW but resembles Nevan's lightning bat summons somewhat)
4. Revolution (NEW)
5. Turbulence (NEW)
6. Regicide (NEW)
7. Percussion (NEW but it appears to be the lightning version of Million Carats)

Its tough to say but out of King Cerberus 19 moves like 6 - 9 are old moves so about half of the weapon is new and old. Also there is nothing wrong with returning weapons as long as they are upgraded and changed enough to justify it like King Cerberus and especially Balrog. Especially when you have tons of fans demanding weapons like Agni and Rudra (understandable), Nevan (eww), and Alastor (don't see why it should unless Trish gets it).

Then you have Sin DT (which is oddly independent from DSD) and rather than list the moves since they're all new its 10.


Ebony and Ivory

TwoSome Time works completely differently now with Gunslinger making shoot Ivory and style ebony and you can now choose which gun to shoot and where and they have different properties adding far more dynamics to E&I while in Gunslinger.
In Gunslinger E&I automatically charge and they're independent from each other.
Honeycomb Shot is now an independent move that doesn't have to be chained from Twosome Time and thus can come out more instantaneously now.
Rainstorm now has built inertia that can be used to move you from place to place

Coyote A

1. Charge Shot
2. Fireworks
3. Shotgun Stinger
4. Backslider
5. Cut In/Cut Out, Cut Left (this one is hard to count but lets count it as 1 move to keep it simple. Its just 1 simple move with a lot of possibilities and uses SO NEW)

Kalina Ann/Kalina Ann 2/Double Kalina Ann

1. Howizter Shot
2. High Explosive
3. Multiple (altered from Lady's version and now has 2 versions where you can either hit a single target or target all nearby enemies)
4. Blaster (its NEW you can say its the same as Lady's double jump in DMC4SE but 1) it doesn't give Dante a second jump and 2) it launches enemies into the air whereas Lady's double jump in DMC4SE doesn't and that they different animations)
5. Hysteric
6. Cascade (NEW)
7. Mega Cascade (NEW)

*Double Kalina Ann is mostly the same as Kalina Ann but it has double the firing rate so it fires twice as much missiles in moves and can fire twice as fast with Howizter Shot and Blaster
*Holding down the gunslinger button with Double Kalina Ann equipped dismounts one Kalina Ann to use one Kalina Ann and have that moveset instead of Double Kalina (cool hidden feature but don't really see much benefit so far outside a different charge shot and the fact using the same move again but with either Kalina Ann or Double Kalina Ann will still raise style meter)

Faust Hat is completely NEW and comes with 8 moves

So lets do the math here. Only counting melee focused options (excluding Trickster and RoyalGuard) and excluding Rebellion/Sparda. Dante's combat focused moveset is 108 moves in total and ONLY 38-40 of that is returning moves. Even if you throw in Royal Guard and Trickster the amount of "recycled" moves are still less than 50%. You need to retake algebra boi.

Nero is a story for another time.

Lets not forget that the Swords Formation adds way more depth and more tools to Dante's disposal especially since it provides longer attack range and special attack formations that vary based on moves (carry over to other weapons), extra dashes (that can inflict damage) and an extra air jump in Trickster, automatic defense in Royal Guard, and shoots at nearby enemies in Gunslinger.



That is such a superfluous example especially for a series that has repeat bosses all the time especially DMC1 and DMC3 (well DMC4 is no better either probably a lot worst in this regard). In those games you refought ALL the bosses (minus Lady and Arkham in 3 and stupidly not Credo and gratefully not the Savior in 4 granted in DMC1 you fought every boss 3 times and DMC3 has you fight Vergil 3 times) at least once. In DMC5 you only refought Urizen (ok maybe 4 times was overdoing it but it was mainly due to story reasons and final form Urizen deviates very far from his last 3 fights), Vergil, and weaker versions of Cavaliere Angelo, Artemis, and Goliath and unlike DMC1/3 its far more justified since V plays drastically different from Nero/Dante so its a different experience. And just cause Cavaliere is riding Geryon its NOT the same boss fight as Cavaliere Angelo (that is a pile of HORSE oop:oop:oop:oop. The two fights are mechanically and drastically different. That is like saying you fought the Savior as Nero in DMC4 because Sanctus used him a bit in his boss fight against Nero. The only DMC game to not have repeat boss fights was DmC.

Its Capcom tradition to have repeat boss fights or boss rushes. They're going to keep implementing them in a lot of their games no matter how much people bitch about it. Although I like boss rushes (I really don't get the hate unless if they're done well like in DMC3, or the bosses chosen were good and not tedious, and I honestly found DMC5's mini boss rush the best attempt in the series with more effort and thought put into it than past entries).

Also its not like the game was made within 10 years. It had a dev cycle of little over 3 years. Game length as long as DMC3 but with zero backtracking, boss and enemy roster on par with DMC3's size (with debate ably better quality in most areas). Best enemy variety in the series or at least tied to DMC1. Nuanced combat mechanics for (at least 2 characters) dripping with near limitless possibilities, a new drastically different play style with its own hurdles to make, visuals this good, models and animations with tons of work put into them, exuding with extreme detail at every corner, and making sure all enemies and bosses could work and are designed for 3 characters with drastically different playstyles. To me feels like an AAA DMC game made in 3 years which is what it is. As someone who studied Game Design and Coding before changing to Concept Art/Vis Dev I can say Game Development doesn't work like that.

I'm one for all having different opinions (don't care where you rank the series) but when you spout "facts" that are objectively WRONG or pure nonsense to undermine all the hard work and effort that a team put behind a project (especially when the director threatened to leave his job to have your dumb sequel to a capitalistic product made) people will call you out.

Is Itsuno threatening to leave over DmC5 actually true?

 

[AgentRedgrave]

Is Itsuno threatening to leave over DmC5 actually true?

We don't know. He threatened to leave after DmC's release, and they let him have a wishlist of what he wanted, and making a DMC game the way he wanted was in the top, and that's what lead into DMC5. Matt Walker said it had nothing to do with DmC. But Reuben Langdon was sure to mention it was shortly after DmC's release. Possible it had nothing to do with DmC, and Reuben himself was bitter (I've heard and read interviews that suggest Reuben didn't like DmC Dante, but he acknowledged he had a bias since he played the character) *EDIT* WTF is going on with the [/QUOTE] ?

 

[dg1995]

Am I the only one being disappointed by the level design in DMC 5 ?

a) Levels here are just " kill enemies here, go to next area , repeat." and "Bossfight battles."

Previous DMC games had far better variety in levels despite having the same formula for example:

1.Break breakable objects to gain red orbs.(Which in this game it is reduced to "Destroy the red objects to gain red orbs.")

2. Destroy the statues to gain blue orbs.(Which this game had none.)

3. Having exploration sections where you have to find your way in the different rooms.( but here you just go from one area to another)

4. Having some puzzles in the levels like the white laser puzzle of DMC 3 (that was copied from Prince Of Persia) or finding your way through a maze.(This game had none)

b) Another problem was that texture variety wasn't good with this game.You go to the next area, but then you see it looks the same as the previous room which is more evident in final levels .(Maybe it's due to RE engine limits and having no loading areas between the levels but in the end it annoys me)

This game in some ways felt like Doom 4.(The game where it's developers just focused on combat and didn't care that much to level design and variety to keep the game fresh for the players.)

Even though that DMC V had a great combat, the game become boring for me too fast like Doom 4.

Verdict: For me it was a 8/10 game for me. DMC 3 is still the king of DMC for me.

 

[Foxtrot94]

1.Break breakable objects to gain red orbs.

Last time they did that people hated it, especially since it was a criteria for mission ranking. And besides, objects are destructible in this game as well. You don't get orbs but you do at times get awesome effects like the sheets of paper flying all over the place in the library. And some objects like cars can even be used in combat, for example planting an Overture bomb in them to damage all enemies around them.

Overall more of a nitpick than an actual point of criticism I'd say.

2. Destroy the statues to gain blue orbs.

Some people hated combat adjudicators as well, especially in games with a really strict style rank system like DMC3. I didn't mind them personally, and yeah I would have liked them to be back. But still, obtaining them through exploration of secret areas is fine. In the V sections especially, where you have to figure out which pieces of scenery are destroyable by Nightmare.

3. Having exploration sections where you have to find your way in the different rooms.

Yes, this is something I agree on. The tree could have been the perfect setting for that.

4. Having some puzzles in the levels

This is another thing people got not to be too keen on as time passed, claiming that they slow down the pace too much or that they made the game too much like Resident Evil. Personally I agree with you there, I wanted the puzzles back but maybe in an inferior number compared to past titles.

 

[tatsumarublack]

I'm one for all having different opinions (don't care where you rank the series) but when you spout "facts" that are objectively WRONG or pure nonsense to undermine all the hard work and effort that a team put behind a project (especially when the director threatened to leave his job to have your dumb sequel to a capitalistic product made) people will call you out.

As I said before, I'm just going to leave it there. I want quality over quantity...I want innovation over renovation. My opinion on what that is differs from yours, and that's cool.

 

[berto]

@tatsumarublack I have to agree with you on this. This doesn't feel like anything new and honestly it's just the same with more piled on top and it's not just from DMC4. This repetition goes back all the way to 3. For Nero, 4, sure, but for Dante he hasn't changed since 3. Whatever small alterations and whatever variations there are aren't enough for me to say that Dante does not have the same moveset for Rebellion for the last 14 years, and the same 4 styles which have only added to them rather than try to redefine them or alter them in any significant manner.

 

[Sean Gow]

@tatsumarublack I have to agree with you on this. This doesn't feel like anything new and honestly it's just the same with more piled on top and it's not just from DMC4. This repetition goes back all the way to 3. For Nero, 4, sure, but for Dante he hasn't changed since 3. Whatever small alterations and whatever variations there are aren't enough for me to say that Dante does not have the same moveset for Rebellion for the last 14 years, and the same 4 styles which have only added to them rather than try to redefine them or alter them in any significant manner.

Ahhhhh man I am SO with you on this