Eva could not be as human or innocent as we though...

[Gel]

Well, at least if we are to believe on this:

While not brought in Devil May Cry 1 in-story, [[Hideki Kamiya]] has stated via the Sound DVD Book that Eva was a Magic-practitioner (which is reflected in an equivalent character of the same name from the Bayonetta series) and that while she was killed, her spirit continued to inhabit Dante's half of the Perfect Amulet. By her spirit haunting the amulet, she continues to have the power of resurrection and possibly teleportation, of which specific incidents include saving Dante's life following the attack that left her killed and reviving and teleporting Trish to where Dante and Mundus were in the middle of their third and last fight.<ref> http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Characters/DevilMayCryOther </ref>

WHICH means all we were assuming about Eva was wrong: she was not "human" in the literal sense since she suffered somewhat of an upgrade, she consorted with demons like any other witch( not for love, love was only a consequence, if we are to believe it happened) and she betrayed Mundus ( while not canon, Mundus says Eva betrayed him).
How would Dante react to this if he is against anyone, no matter the circumstances, selling his/ her soul?
Will he be double standarts relating to his mother?

 

[Viper]

[insert long rant where Viper would rather have Eva be a demon hunter like Lady, or a regular human with strong will like Kyrie, than a Bayonetta-style magical girl witch. Viper would be prepared to excuse her dabbling in amateur magic to help humans (folk magic), but selling souls to demons would at this point just be facepalm-inducing]

Umm, Dante is not against selling souls, he is against people doing evil things, which just happens to be in direct connection to selling souls. So if Eva did it for something bad, he would most definitely be torn about it, it would shatter the angelic image he has of his mother. In that case, he might opt for living in denial rather than destroying himself.

But, there is the fact that since condition of a classical witch contract is that her soul belongs to the demon she signed the contract with, and I doubt it could be broken just like that, her soul being in amulet and not Demon world means that Eva's betrayal might have included transferring the contract to Sparda, making it a lesser evil in Dante's eyes.

He'd still pour himself a bathtub of whiskey and used a straw, though.

 

[Gel]

Selling your soul to Devil is bad, for whatever reason. Dante likes to go on and on about how valuable human soul is: well, Dante, your mama doesnt think so!
This would imply too Eva was killed for high treason, not only because she happened to be a demon's wife.To be sincere this cheapens DMC story.Her death lost value and Eva loses her high dignity as a poor victim to something lower and cheaper.
In its favor, Capcom can always use the idea " Demon papa good, witch mama bad" to give some variety to cliche stories, since it's always " Papa bad, Mama nice".
DMC is becoming worse and worse :frown:

 

[Gel]

(Sorry for this, since I can't edit my post)
Could Dante's finding his mother was a witch a good reason for him being just like he was on DMC2?At least no blood was needed to be shed!?

 

[Viper]

I can already imagine the loud gasp from people when they read this, but maybe it is a good thing Kamiya didn't work on DMC past the first one. Some of his ideas just don't sit well, not just with me, but with the whole message of DMC, which is that while humans lack in physical strength, they make up for it with the power of their love and Eva was always on the forefront of that, a love between a devil and a mere human and her doing her best to protect her children.

*sigh* If the mother in that one episode of anime was really Eva, even though that means the timeline got a little more wonky again, then it implies she did have some magical powers or at least enough knowledge to seal a demon. My hope is she got that from Sparda. (Or maybe it was Sparda masquerading as Tony's "mother". What? You can't say it didn't draw out at least a chuckle from you. XD )

It could have been a good reason for him being so brooding, and it wouldn't hurt any fans of Dante's sidekicks. But at this point it's kinda hard to tell if other authors took that part of Kamiya's DMC story, therefore leaving its canon status hanging in the air.

ps. Papa Sparda rebelled against his kind and helped humanity, so he was never bad, just misunderstood by his son.

 

[Innsmouth]

Umm. well 1. Being magic partitioner doesn't makes her "inhuman" or "devil consort". Second she was obviously killed because Mundus definitely tried to kill them to get his revenge on Sparda, after Sparda kicked his forces from Earth.

 

[Foxtrot94]

@Viper well, Sparda was bad before his rebellion. But I get what you're saying, he wasn't bad when it comes to his actual role in the games's plot.

 

[AgentRedgrave]

.....Well it's possible that she was a magic practitioner.....but that doesn't make her evil. Hell I've been working on a story for a couple years now about a dhampir (half-human/half-vampire) and his love interest is a witch...Also witches, depending on the lore, are still human. If there are witches in Devil May Cry, we have to wait and see what they are like, not just base them on some other lore....

 

[Viper]

.....Well it's possible that she was a magic practitioner.....but that doesn't make her evil. Hell I've been working on a story for a couple years now about a dhampir (half-human/half-vampire) and his love interest is a witch...Also witches, depending on the lore, are still human. If there are witches in Devil May Cry, we have to wait and see what they are like, not just base them on some other lore....

There was a witch in the original series, Nevan carried the title of Lightning Witch (as well as sorceress), even though she was a vampire/succubus type of a demon. It seems that in Devil May Cry's lore a female of any specie using magic is a witch, be it logical and in tune with universally accepted definition or not.

 

[AgentRedgrave]

There was a witch in the original series, Nevan carried the title of Lightning Witch (as well as sorceress), even though she was a vampire/succubus type of a demon. It seems that in Devil May Cry's lore a female of any specie using magic is a witch, be it logical and in tune with universally accepted definition or not.

Yeah I always saw her as a vampire or succubus. That being said though, plenty of fiction with good and bad witches

 

[Viper]

Yeah I always saw her as a vampire or succubus. That being said though, plenty of fiction with good and bad witches

Funny though, from what I read the idea of a good witch came from the fact that folk healers or cunning folk were sometimes referred to as witches in early modern period while the meaning of the word witch still had both positive and negative meaning. It was later only used by folklorists, since it became solely negative word among people.

There is a claim that cunning folk in Europe preferred not to be called witches, since they did not want to be brought into connection with evil ones, but I don't have confirmation.

The more common name for them was cunning man/woman or wise man/woman, less commonly wizard, blesser, sorcerer, yet nowadays everyone always insist on the lesser used title of witch.
Also, despite popular belief, witch is a unisex title. Warlock is said to be used by mistake.

 

[Gel]

At this point , that part was retconned, since Dante never died, but he was hidden from demons by Eva. Eva did not fight back, but run away from demons until they caught them.( This all from DMC3 manga)
The way Kamiya put this, not only she was a witch à la Bayonetta,but she even can resurrect and teleport. Eva is almost a goddess. This goes against what DMC said about her. I'm more and more convinced Kamiya's Eva is very much like FFVII's Lucrecia: Lucrecia did unspeakable things against the people that loved her and allowed her baby to be genetically manipulated. We must remind DMC was a Biohazard where two babies were genetically manipulated in their mom's womb. So, it's more of the same.

Rumors long said one of the numerous reasons which made Capcom try a reboot was the fact Kamiya was always taking jabs at DMC story and he was always trying to interfere in its canon. A new rumor says Kamiya was telling fans Nero was a child of Vergil and Bayonetta.I don't know if the rumor is true or if he said that, he was only joking, but willing fans would take it immediately as Word Of God, when he only worked in DMC1.The same with DMC2 Dante being Enzo, Dante, who has blood of a powerful demon in his veins, is weaker than a human witch and that kind of stupidity. He even said, long time ago, Trish was stronger than Dante. ( Even if DMC1 proves that it's not true.)

I've a problem with that Anime's episode: they ignore Dante had a twin brother or the mother they're talking about was a foster mother.

 

[WolfOD64]

@Viper well, Sparda was bad before his rebellion. But I get what you're saying, he wasn't bad when it comes to his actual role in the games's plot.

Yeah, he "woke up to justice" or something...according to the first game's lengthy monologue.

 

[Viper]

@Gel
That episode was homage to first novel, and since Ernest used 20 years later expression after unspecified time had passed since Trish already used it, and it was said mother survived and was chased out of town by angry survivors, most likely it was a foster mom. Hard to tell without any details on the whole matter and even Dante constantly denying he was Tony, while we were shown proof of it being true.

 

[V's patron]

Once Jak put up a thread called "sins of the father" which was a joke thread about a new DMC game set in Dante's 20s where he dealt with another of his father's messes and I felt that it would have been better if it dealt with his mother and her life because we've been dealing with his father's messes since day 1.

So i'm cool with Eva having some skeletons in her closet and Dante dealing with his mom not being as much of angel(pun not intended) as he thought. That doesn't mean she should become a mustache twirling wackjob but someone who may not have the best choices.

 

[DarkSlayerZero]

The way Kamiya put this, not only she was a witch à la Bayonetta,but she even can resurrect and teleport. Eva is almost a goddess. This goes against what DMC said about her.

I don't know how you came to that conclusion.

 

[Gel]

If she can resurrect people ( like she does to little Dante and Trish) and if she can teleport people , she not only is superior in power to almost characters in DMC, but she has a godlike power of resurrecting the dead. It was just a question of time she resurrected herself ( which is possible, knowing Kamiya).
Other question I have , but nobody can answer it : why her soul was sucked into Dante's amulet, but Vergil got nothing?( Well, it is said in DMC3 manga Vergil was certain his mother preferred Dante over him, but I don't know for sure if this was a real thing.)

 

[berto]

Where in the Sound DVD. I have that book and I added the text to the page here but that doesn't ring any bells. Was it in the Japanese text?

 

[Gel]

Good question! I don't know. At this point I can't say if it is in the Japanese text, which I can't read; if this is only headcanon from someone who wants it to be real or fanfiction and it's not the first time things and words are put in Kamiya's mouth, even if he didn't say anything.DMC1 manual never said anything about this, neither is said Eva was a witch. The only thing it says is that Sparda sealed the demon world and later married a noble woman.It even implies Sparda died before the twins were born. In DMC1 novel Dante admits not knowing anything concrete about his father and his mother seemed quite human to me there.
Since you have that item, maybe you can help us?

 

[DarkSlayerZero]

If she can resurrect people ( like she does to little Dante and Trish) and if she can teleport people , she not only is superior in power to almost characters in DMC, but she has a godlike power of resurrecting the dead. It was just a question of time she resurrected herself ( which is possible, knowing Kamiya).
Other question I have , but nobody can answer it : why her soul was sucked into Dante's amulet, but Vergil got nothing?( Well, it is said in DMC3 manga Vergil was certain his mother preferred Dante over him, but I don't know for sure if this was a real thing.)

DMC has demons that can teleport people as well.