I had always considered Eva to be a metahuman (witch/sorceress/demon hunter) of sorts, so all of this really comes as no surprise.
Eva could not be as human or innocent as we though...
- Thread starter Gel
- Start date
Being a practitioner of magic doesn't necessarily mean Eva was evil, or that she sold her soul.
Even if we full-on assume she was an Umbran Witch that made a pact with a Demon, that also doesn't mean she was a bad person.
Hah, I could buy that. Though Jeanne would make a better candidate, perhaps.
Well, that's arguable. It seems likely that the incident explored in that episode may have been the same one in which Eva died (Even if it was thought that she escaped), and Dante was using the pseudonym of Tony in public at the time because the family was in hiding.
As for Vergil not being brought up, I might just chalk it up to Ernest not knowing him in the same way he knew Dante.
Edit: Alternatively, perhaps Eva was hiding the fact that she had two sons, to throw Demons off their trail? As in, Dante and Vergil BOTH took the name Tony, and only one made friends with Ernest. I've heard some people assume that it was actually Vergil, seeing as the hidden box revealed near the end of the episode was actually blue and gold.
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*thinks of their hair-based transformation* Oh dear god, no... *shudders*
@Veloran
While it's entirely possible it was Vergil, the photo of them as kids poses a problem for that theory seeing as the white-haired kid was wearing a red t-shirt. There is a chance that Ernest knew them both but like others didn't realize it's two boys switching places, while perfecting playing the other, so both could attend school while maintaining illusion of there being only one child. I think at this point I might be overthinking it, but it's fun. XD
Ha it would be watered down umbran witch powers if he did , could explain his telekinesis and other powers though
Could be, could be... hard to tell when we don't know the full extent of Sparda's power, so we can't really tell what came from dad's side and what from mom's side. So far we operated under notion that anything special came from dad.
Be cool to think half demon half human with witch power though , especially if that had been explored.
I agree, it's fun to speculate on small details like this.
I don't think the powers of an Umbran Witch are hereditary. An affinity for magic maybe, but nothing else. The Witches really got their abilities from extensive training and Demonic pacts.
If we where to believe DMC1 novel, Dante just changed his name because his dying mother told him to do so, so he was never Tony before his mother died.
If amulet had some kind of power, I associate that with Alchemy or something related more with it's material than Eva's powers. If Eva was a POWERFULL witch, why would she almost immediately be torn apart without any kind of reaction from her part. Dante( in Kamiya's version) is only resurrected after his mother died and her soul be trapped in the amulet.If Eva was a powerhouse, sure she had a quite ridiculous death.
Now not only DMC has plotholes, but has now messy canonical explanations. DMC needs to be rewrite from the very beginning.
If amulet had some kind of power, I associate that with Alchemy or something related more with it's material than Eva's powers. If Eva was a POWERFULL witch, why would she almost immediately be torn apart without any kind of reaction from her part. Dante( in Kamiya's version) is only resurrected after his mother died and her soul be trapped in the amulet.If Eva was a powerhouse, sure she had a quite ridiculous death.
Now not only DMC has plotholes, but has now messy canonical explanations. DMC needs to be rewrite from the very beginning.
@Gel
Now that you mention alchemy... Alan Lowell was an alchemist and left that amulet Alan's Tear (or something) to his descendants after he sealed Abigail. Now old Alan had no powers himself, from what I remember, he could only put demons under his control... somehow... I really need to refresh my memory.
Anyway, maybe Eva wasn't a witch, but some kind of an alchemist herself or was coming from a family that had an alchemist like the Lowell family. Maybe while the amulet was in her safe keeping, she tampered with it somehow, so it could accept her soul, while the power of resurrection and teleportation came to be after the merger.
Now that you mention alchemy... Alan Lowell was an alchemist and left that amulet Alan's Tear (or something) to his descendants after he sealed Abigail. Now old Alan had no powers himself, from what I remember, he could only put demons under his control... somehow... I really need to refresh my memory.
Anyway, maybe Eva wasn't a witch, but some kind of an alchemist herself or was coming from a family that had an alchemist like the Lowell family. Maybe while the amulet was in her safe keeping, she tampered with it somehow, so it could accept her soul, while the power of resurrection and teleportation came to be after the merger.
Agent redgrave has a point since we dont know how a witch would be portrayed in the DMC lore so while we could draw conclusions from Bayonetta, that doesnt make a difference as the writers still have the freedom to create witches however they want.
So there is a lot of wiggle room like Nero's origins, Dante/Vergil's childhood, Eva/Sparda's lives, DMC2 that could be used /resolved as DMC is still an open canvas.
So there is a lot of wiggle room like Nero's origins, Dante/Vergil's childhood, Eva/Sparda's lives, DMC2 that could be used /resolved as DMC is still an open canvas.
Well, Agnus uses Alchemy as a meta-science to produce animal/demon hybrids, so the use of Alchemy is quite common in DMC. Eva could use it without being an over the edge character and Alchemy is still seen as a somekind of magic.
Interesting...
Interesting...
I really wish TVtropes would have a citations format like Wikipedia.
Some of the info you find there are interesting but can't really be used as a source for discussions, much less arguments.
Some of the info you find there are interesting but can't really be used as a source for discussions, much less arguments.
I went through DMC page on Tvtropes yesterday, not only do they need citations, but also some corrections before they create confusion. Someone mistakenly put down Nero built Red Queen himself, when everyone knows swords were made by Agnus and Nero had made Blue Rose. There are also claims that are supposed to be backed by youtube videos, only those videos are no longer up.
In light of that, they definitely need citations otherwise what is stopping someone from spreading misinformation.
Not only that! Tv tropes says in DMC2 novel Eva commanded Sparda/ Nelo Angelo soldiers after their demise, This is wrong.I have the novel and Frost says about Eva" She was only a human, but somehow matched Sparda as an equal.Her enormous kindness gives us strength to this day.She begat Nelo Angelo, our great leader."
She was their moral support and their "heart", not a sodier or even less a commander , but someone twisted these words to help them to describe Eva as a powerhouse witch , just to match Kamiya's description.( Eva , in Kamiya's vision, is really a umbra witch. If you unlock " Legendary Dark Witch", you'll see the icon of the achievement is Eva with guns à la Bayo.
She was their moral support and their "heart", not a sodier or even less a commander , but someone twisted these words to help them to describe Eva as a powerhouse witch , just to match Kamiya's description.( Eva , in Kamiya's vision, is really a umbra witch. If you unlock " Legendary Dark Witch", you'll see the icon of the achievement is Eva with guns à la Bayo.
I really dunno why people taking Bayonetta references so seriously. It made dozen of references to completely different franchises like Okami, RE, VJ etc. If people take it seriously they need to come to terms that Okami Amaterasu existed in Bayo/DMC universe. Whole Eva confusion is most likely pun on DMC in the first place.
I'm not sure if Nero made the base blade of Red Queen himself, but he DID drastically augment the sword. The entire Exceed system is a result of Nero's modifications.
Kamiya designed practically the whole Bayonetta universe with DMC in mind. It's allusions to Devil May Cry go above and beyond any references it makes to other games' series.
All swords used by the Order were made by Agnus, but it's not very clear who made customization on Exceed system for Red Queen. It was talked about rev limiter being removed, hence why Nero can use exceed to greatly improve its strength and speed, while other knights rev their swords without real effect, but at the same time Angelos can also use something like Exceed system with same effect like Queen.
Still, tvtropes doesn't say anything about the well-known fact he made the gun, and just mentions in short he made the sword entirely on his own.
Sure , but Kamiya was the guy who made fun of DMC4 when it was released, but had no qualms in replicating it over and over. The guy who says Lady, Nero, etc, do not exist because he didn't created the while at the same time he says he only did DMC1 , at the point of saying he basically did that game alone, when, to be truthful , Mikami's hand was heavy on it; Kamiya is the same guy who said Capcom was bad with him, but forgot to mention how troublesome he was at that time: his bosses couldn't handled , his "RE4" was put on hold because he had an accident involving driving in high speed, with alcohol in his blood and without helmet.Even so Capcom never thought in firing him. He almost ruined RE2 and he was the guy behind the worst seller game Capcom ever had( Okami), but he was never fired, so he has not reason to hold a grudge on them.
I can imagine if DMC5 come to life, he will imediatelly starts to meddling with it, saying he doesn't like and want it to change. Come on, he is a 44 years man who behaves like a spoiled child! He can't overcome the fact he is no more necessary to DMC. He didn't even wanted Capcom to make a sequel of DMC1.
I like his work, but I can't stand the guy.
I can imagine if DMC5 come to life, he will imediatelly starts to meddling with it, saying he doesn't like and want it to change. Come on, he is a 44 years man who behaves like a spoiled child! He can't overcome the fact he is no more necessary to DMC. He didn't even wanted Capcom to make a sequel of DMC1.
I like his work, but I can't stand the guy.