DmC's Story is Terrible and here is why?

[Alittleacorn]

Oh please.....this thread ain't going anywhere. Its not like I'm insulting anyone now am I. :troll:

So you want me to discuss in a manner that is positive about the game or mild so you can feel better that I'm not trashing your beloved game...well I'm not like Ronin now am I?

If you don't want to continue. No is stopping you. Same way no one is stopping me from trashing this bad game...same way how some of you..no ALL of you have trashed games before.

I'm only trashing its story cause trashing its gameplay would be like beating a dead horse that is already a corpse.

Nothing disturbing the peace here.

I don't mean a positive manner, I mean one that doesn't have sarcasm attached to it. You're being nothing but rude right now.

 

[AlchemistFromEden]

If you are 30 years old and some raging teenagers are telling you to kill yourself in your place,
are you really defending this action
you aren't supposed to care about and even respond them,
after three years i'm pretty sure they have every right to react
you are just giving the attention they want
according to them they don't want that kind of attention
and of course it does looks worse an old man raging
there's a difference between raging and just subtley saying **** off like game developers do, NT uses subtlety with the raging children just like ubisoft used subtlety to say basically say **** off to PETA, http://www.gamefront.com/ubisoft-responds-to-peta-on-assassins-creed-iv/
than a child.
take into account the children in this case are from the ages of 16-30 years old raging on the internet, so basically, they have the mentality and behavior of children
On that case, you can just call the security guard or call the police
have you ever been in hot topic? the most likely employees you'll find in there are young adults not full grown men and women
you're an adult
young adult, as in probably in college
you're the owner of the shop
no they aren't since the owner is not in the store more than half the time
so you're supposed to act the most mature way possible.
not when the other guy is acting like a baby and won't stop
And now, we got some overrated developer
overrated? um what? how is consistently releasing games that are all better than the last game you made in terms of quality make you overrated, guess team ico is overrated as well
arguing with childs on his Twitter
which he doesn't do, he ignores 95% of the trolls and calls out the ones that are the lowest of the low, such as the one who spewed the N word
people defend him despite his manchildren ways to resolve problems.[
and people like you then go on to defend hideki kamiya as if he's god whenever people call him out on his bullshit, its good to have backgrounds logic right?/quote]

Ok I'm back b*tches.
don't talk about immaturity if you aren't mature kid
Now I remember seeing someone say I haven't posted back in a while and quickly assumed I chickened out like a punk.
because we assumed that you wouldn't need to consider we debunked nearly every "point" you made without making it all sound like fanfiction like some of the members do
Now I won't call you out on it or reveal who said it because you know you said it
oohhhh, scary, watch out everybody we got a badass over here.
Well I'm sorry I was too busy with other things in my life to get into an argument/debate with random strangers on the internet.
so do I but i get a break today
Plus I only recently came to this website and saw the crap that is going down.
what crap is that? the fact that we don't let people rip on DmC like they get paid to do it
Before I get into any counter arguments I must first address the bull crap.
oh HERE WE GO
First, how did I come off as aggressive and rude?
by opening posts with phrases like "I'm back bitches" and calling every point you brought up as an indefinite "fail," ironically of course because the first post in this thread is a fail...bazinga...
After seeing the comments saying I was...I thought maybe I did push it a bit too hard but after re-reading my Opening and skimming it I'm wondering how is it come off as rude
just explained why
(with the exception of 1 last sentence....barely).
barely my ass, saying a company should give up isn't barely rude if you consider the reality that it would mean that a hundred people would lose their jobs and how badly it would affect their families, yes, game developers have children too -_-
Everything is there and stated in a way that is more blunt than rude and aggressive.
whatever floats your boat skippy
Was it cause I used cursing and curse words? Oh I didn't know I was using words that the game and main character you like so much tosses around like its mutherf*cking casual Friday.
saying this after bitching about us calling out your rude and overly aggressive post does not help validate anything you say, especially in a game that does not curse nearly as much as game that pride themselves on it -_-
Was it cause I used large texts
no, its because you were rude and aggressive and insulting -_-
listen I didn't use large texts to express opinion or emotion
k, doesn't make their use any less stupid and unnecessary, bazinga
they were primarily used in examples
because big letters helps to prove your point right, JUST LIKE TYPING IN ALL CAPS LOCK FOR THE WORLD TO SEE
for those skimming the passage to notice them so it can catch their attention not to come as a raging fanboy.
oh its too late for anyone to not consider your thread one that originated from the mind of a raging fanboy
Was it too blunt or casual?
it was TOO RUDE
I'm sorry I chose not to present it in a more "polite, mannered, and elitist" fashion.
once again, insulting people, in this case, calling us elitists because we don't agree with you
The whole point was to be casual to show that you don't have to be a paid professional, journalist, writer, or an unbiased individual just a random guy on the internet to see that this game has tons of flaws and inconsistencies in its one simple story.
or to show that random guys who don't know how to properly critique things should stop trying to -_-
I'm sorry was my entire post made towards you, did it affect you, was I attacking you, did it feel like I was attacking you?
Well I'm not sorry if you feel that way.
"GAIS, STOP CALLING ME RUDE AND AGGRESSIVE, I'LL USE ALL THE CURSES I WANT AND IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT YOU ARE AN ELITIST AND SHOULD **** OFF" is what this sentence amounts to
Its your own fault for it wasn't made for you
then you should have posted this stupid thread in the neogaf forum
I wasn't attacking you or any other fans of DmC. I was attacking A GAME the same way how plenty of you motherf....individuals have attacked games in the DMC series.
yeah we get enough of that going on here to the point that there's a thread from the admins literally saying "don't make threads for the sole purpose of attacking DmC"
Its your fault for making it personal when its a game
like all of you do when we point out the faults of the classic games
its not like I attacked your religion or family or something.
its like you attacked something we like, wow, how awful of us to debunk your arguments and call you out on your bullshit post that made almost zero sense
People will not always like what you like
which is why you should stick to people who do and avoid things you don't like which is why i question why so many join this forum, which has a sub forum for every other game in the series, and yet they choose to spend the most time in the sub forum for the one thing THEY DON'T LIKE, which is completely asinine logic, after the 500th post about why you don't like the game its like digging up the grave of a dead horse so that you can beat its decaying corpse
and its our duties as human beings to recognize that and respond accordingly or not respond. I'm just stating it as it is.
and it is our duties as humans beings to call people out on their bullshit
I will admit that the last sentence was mean....but its not meant for you
if its not meant for us then don't post it or post it somewhere else, seriously how hard is this idea to grasp huh?
Its meant for Ninja Theory (mostly Tameem)
he's not reading this forum on a daily basis and probably will never see your post because if you can believe it, he's an adult with a job and family
...not you, you don't work for Ninja Theory, you don't have stocks invested in them, and has far as I know none of you have relatives/friends and loved ones that work for them.
and you don't work for the antidmc force so we don't feel like hearing your bitching and nonsensical ramblings anymore
I was going to redact that statement but nah its going to stay.
oh the maturity -_-
I've seen people say terrible things about other companies (Capcom, EA, SEGA, so forth) and I get flak for insulting NT which compared to what people (some on this forum) have said much worse about Capcom or EA.
spending time insulting things you don't like is generally immature and unproductive, i'm not a fan of justin bieber, so do i go to his concerts and conventions and go to forums to talk about how much i don't like him, no i don't, i just ignore it, THAT'S the mature thing to do, not dwell on something you don't like -_-
Furthermore, Ive seen plenty of you pro-DmC fans use the victims card and be hypocrites about it.
just like the people who don't like DmC
"Hah its okay to insult DmC but when I insult DMC4 or DMC2 I get flak for it"..wah wah wah....I say BUULLLSH*T.
oh so its whining when we point out the flaws in the old series but its not whining when you bitch about the new game for the third year in a row
No one is stopping you from insulting the old DMC games
and no one is stopping you from paying a visit to the other sub forums to talk about something you like instead of literally doing the opposite
but people WHO DO like them will retaliate same way how your doing it now.
true but unlike you and a ****load of the other anti dmc fans WE DON'T go to the other forums to constantly talk about the flaws of the old series like you do -_-
I KNEW posting this it as going to be negatively received by the pros but I didn't care it was MY opinion, MY choice, MY decision.
omg get over yourself
I didn't make this thread to convince you but to wake up all the anti-DmC or pro-DMC
so basically to convince us -_- something which you completely failed to do
and stop all this "DmC's story is better than DMC's story" wank
oh excuse me for liking a coherent story where the characters actually develop and have backstories with characters like eva getting more than one line in the whole series
DmC bias going on this website
*GASP* the DmC sub forum is full of people who actually like the game who also get annoyed at people who just come over here to be a debbie downer on a daily basis and to bitch over and over again about why they don't like what we like only to play the victim card whenever we call them out on their bullshit, WHAT SORCERY IS THIS
and to show pro-DmC that DmC's story is NOT better than DMC
coming up with a bunch of bullshit points that all got debunked multiple times only doesn't show anyone anything, i mean hell even one of the admins liked my post when i debunked EVERY point you made, -_- if anything, it showed that you didn't know what you were talking about and didn't bother to look up the answers to more than half the questions you asked
that it too is just as bad, plot hole ridden, inconsistent, and terrible in ONE game not 4 games all written by different writers but ONE game written by ONE writer.
no its not since we debunked all of your bullshit points that made no sense so basically this entire thread was a fail on your point and you shouldn't bother and btw, look up the world inconsistent because you used it incorrectly multiple times now, btw, look up satire and how this game uses satire -_-
Now I'll address all the counterarguments soon enough.

 

[AlchemistFromEden]

and with that, i'm done, because the OP is obviously not mature enough to have a mature discussion and from the look of his reply to two across, he didn't even bother reading the counterpoints that all debunked his asinine and nonsensical theories, and is obviously having delusions of grandeur if he actually believes a creative director has time to read an internet forum just because it addresses him, thread reported and please, THINK before you post bullshit threads and look up things before spouting nonsense -_-

 

[Zey]

are you really defending this action
Nope.
after three years i'm pretty sure they have every right to react
If you let them do the same for three years...
according to them they don't want that kind of attention
Huh?
there's a difference between raging and just subtley saying **** off like game developers do, NT uses subtlety with the raging children just like ubisoft used subtlety to say basically say **** off to PETA,http://www.gamefront.com/ubisoft-responds-to-peta-on-assassins-creed-iv/
"Subtle", yeah...
take into account the children in this case are from the ages of 16-30 years old raging on the internet, so basically, they have the mentality and behavior of children
So they are manchildrens, why would you argue with one? Just the same with childrens and teenagers.
have you ever been in hot topic? the most likely employees you'll find in there are young adults not full grown men and women
I'm taking the perspective of the owner or the person in charge.
young adult, as in probably in college
^Same.
no they aren't since the owner is not in the store more than half the time
^Same.
not when the other guy is acting like a baby and won't stop
Then you're acting like them. You aren't supposed to argue with a "baby".
overrated? um what? how is consistently releasing games that are all better than the last game you made in terms of quality make you overrated, guess team ico is overrated as well
Yeah, overrated.
which he doesn't do, he ignores 95% of the trolls and calls out the ones that are the lowest of the low, such as the one who spewed the N word
I'm almost sure that he did it, sadly his Twitter isn't up so I can't confirm it.
and people like you then go on to defend hideki kamiya as if he's god whenever people call him out on his bullshit, its good to have backgrounds logic right?
I did? Sorry, but I don't remember me defending Kamiya behavior on his Twitter, but is really amusing that you did mention it.

You look a bit biased and butthurt, sir.

 

[Stylish Nero]

don't talk about immaturity if you aren't mature kid
Who says anything about me talking about immaturity?

because we assumed that you wouldn't need to consider we debunked nearly every "point" you made without making it all sound like fanfiction like some of the members do
Who says anyone debunked every point I made? I read the responses. You guys aren't even close to debunking my all my points.

oohhhh, scary, watch out everybody we got a badass over here.
I'm being nice to not single out a person and looks who being "immature".

so do I but i get a break today
Your point is. We are both busy people.

what crap is that? the fact that we don't let people rip on DmC like they get paid to do it
The crap was about me not my post or me attacking the game.

oh HERE WE GO
Yeah real mature

by opening posts with phrases like "I'm back bitches" and calling every point you brought up as an indefinite "fail," ironically of course because the first post in this thread is a fail...bazinga...
The "I'm back bitches" comment wasn't in my first post now was it? I used fail because those were failed story elements by NT that made no sense. Not questions just stuff in the story that didn't make much sense. Oh please my entire post is quite valid.

just explained why
I did do that

barely my ass, saying a company should give up isn't barely rude if you consider the reality that it would mean that a hundred people would lose their jobs and how badly it would affect their families, yes, game developers have children too -_-
I never said they should give up now did I or wished that they should lose their jobs now did I?

whatever floats your boat skippy
Real mature

saying this after bitching about us calling out your rude and overly aggressive post does not help validate anything you say, especially in a game that does not curse nearly as much as game that pride themselves on it -_-


no, its because you were rude and aggressive and insulting -_-
Insulting to who?

once again, insulting people, in this case, calling us elitists because we don't agree with you
I'm not calling anyone elitist now am I was referring to how I didn't represent my argument.

or to show that random guys who don't know how to properly critique things should stop trying to -_-
Ohh I didn't know there was I guideline I had to follow to properly criticize something

"GAIS, STOP CALLING ME RUDE AND AGGRESSIVE, I'LL USE ALL THE CURSES I WANT AND IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT YOU ARE AN ELITIST AND SHOULD **** OFF" is what this sentence amounts to
Wow you really prove yourself here buddy twisting my phrase to make me look bad. Good job

yeah we get enough of that going on here to the point that there's a thread from the admins literally saying "don't make threads for the sole purpose of attacking DmC"
So there is a guideline to not attack DmC is there one to not attack DMC or any other game. Plus its not just attacking the game. If anything I've brought DmC down to the level it deserve.

like all of you do when we point out the faults of the classic games
This argument isn't about them its about me and me being rude

its like you attacked something we like, wow, how awful of us to debunk your arguments and call you out on your bullshit post that made almost zero sense
You can defend it but when you bring me in this by referring to me as immature and rude then its something else then you ATTACKING me.

and its our duties as human beings to recognize that and respond accordingly or not respond. I'm just stating it as it is.
and it is our duties as humans beings to call people out on their bullshit
Or you can ignore them and move on

if its not meant for us then don't post it or post it somewhere else, seriously how hard is this idea to grasp huh?
The same way how making thread why you don't like DMC4 Dante or what you want to see in a next game isn't direct to anyone but you just want to get your idea or something out there.

he's not reading this forum on a daily basis and probably will never see your post because if you can believe it, he's an adult
I made a reply to this same question look above
...not you, you don't work for Ninja Theory, you don't have stocks invested in them, and has far as I know none of you have relatives/friends and loved ones that work for them.
and you don't work for the antidmc force so we don't feel like hearing your bitching and nonsensical ramblings anymore
Nonsensical it makes more sense than this game's plot

spending time insulting things you don't like is generally immature and unproductive, i'm not a fan of justin bieber, so do i go to his concerts and conventions and go to forums to talk about how much i don't like him, no i don't, i just ignore it, THAT'S the mature thing to do, not dwell on something you don't like -_-
Last time I checked this isn't a DmC forum but a DMC forum.

just like the people who don't like DmC
I don't really see it on this forum which I'm mainly referring to.

"Hah its okay to insult DmC but when I insult DMC4 or DMC2 I get flak for it"..wah wah wah....I say BUULLLSH*T.
oh so its whining when we point out the flaws in the old series but its not whining when you bitch about the new game for the third year in a row
I never said you can't whine or counter me but I've seen people say stuff like.

and no one is stopping you from paying a visit to the other sub forums to talk about something you like instead of literally doing the opposite
The same way how no one is stopping you from keeping on replying

true but unlike you and a ****load of the other anti dmc fans WE DON'T go to the other forums to constantly talk about the flaws of the old series like you do -_-
I've been on this forum for almost a year now and this is the only place I've posted this thread. If you want I can go to every other DMC, DmC, or gaming thread and post this argument there.

so basically to convince us -_- something which you completely failed to do
Who says to convince you or a pro-DmC that comment was made towards the antis who are already convinced that DmC is a bad game not worthy of the DMC name.

oh excuse me for liking a coherent story where the characters actually develop and have backstories with characters like eva getting more than one line in the whole series
Co-coherant..hahaha..development..man you should be a comedian. You know that Eva was potentially in Vergil's head

coming up with a bunch of bullshit points that all got debunked multiple times only doesn't show anyone anything, if anything, it showed that you didn't know what you were talking about and didn't bother to look up the answers to more than half the questions you asked
I read every post..no you guys didn't.

no its not since we debunked all of your bullshit points that made no sense so basically this entire thread was a fail on your point and you shouldn't bother and btw, look up the world inconsistent because you used it incorrectly multiple times now, btw, look up satire and how this game uses satire -_-
Firstly, I never said anything about satire. No you guys and you guys BARELY debunked anything and said stuff like how its just use your imagination to solve some of the questions, and you guys didn't answer all of my the questions...trust me I saw.

Fine forget how I presented my argument lets discuss my points in the initial post then. This is getting us nowhere and is derailing the thread's the entire point...the game's story.

 

[AlchemistFromEden]

don't talk about immaturity if you aren't mature kid
Who says anything about me talking about immaturity?

because we assumed that you wouldn't need to consider we debunked nearly every "point" you made without making it all sound like fanfiction like some of the members do
Who says anyone debunked every point I made? I read the responses. You guys aren't even close to debunking my all my points.

oohhhh, scary, watch out everybody we got a badass over here.
I'm being nice to not single out a person and looks who being "immature".

so do I but i get a break today
Your point is. We are both busy people.

what crap is that? the fact that we don't let people rip on DmC like they get paid to do it
The crap was about me not my post or me attacking the game.

oh HERE WE GO
Yeah real mature

by opening posts with phrases like "I'm back bitches" and calling every point you brought up as an indefinite "fail," ironically of course because the first post in this thread is a fail...bazinga...
The "I'm back bitches" comment wasn't in my first post now was it? I used fail because those were failed story elements by NT that made no sense. Not questions just stuff in the story that didn't make much sense. Oh please my entire post is quite valid.

just explained why
I did do that

barely my ass, saying a company should give up isn't barely rude if you consider the reality that it would mean that a hundred people would lose their jobs and how badly it would affect their families, yes, game developers have children too -_-
I never said they should give up now did I or wished that they should lose their jobs now did I?

whatever floats your boat skippy
Real mature

saying this after bitching about us calling out your rude and overly aggressive post does not help validate anything you say, especially in a game that does not curse nearly as much as game that pride themselves on it -_-


no, its because you were rude and aggressive and insulting -_-
Insulting to who?

once again, insulting people, in this case, calling us elitists because we don't agree with you
I'm not calling anyone elitist now am I was referring to how I didn't represent my argument.

or to show that random guys who don't know how to properly critique things should stop trying to -_-
Ohh I didn't know there was I guideline I had to follow to properly criticize something

"GAIS, STOP CALLING ME RUDE AND AGGRESSIVE, I'LL USE ALL THE CURSES I WANT AND IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT YOU ARE AN ELITIST AND SHOULD **** OFF" is what this sentence amounts to
Wow you really prove yourself here buddy twisting my phrase to make me look bad. Good job

yeah we get enough of that going on here to the point that there's a thread from the admins literally saying "don't make threads for the sole purpose of attacking DmC"
So there is a guideline to not attack DmC is there one to not attack DMC or any other game. Plus its not just attacking the game. If anything I've brought DmC down to the level it deserve.

like all of you do when we point out the faults of the classic games
This argument isn't about them its about me and me being rude

its like you attacked something we like, wow, how awful of us to debunk your arguments and call you out on your bullshit post that made almost zero sense
You can defend it but when you bring me in this by referring to me as immature and rude then its something else then you ATTACKING me.

and its our duties as human beings to recognize that and respond accordingly or not respond. I'm just stating it as it is.
and it is our duties as humans beings to call people out on their bullshit
Or you can ignore them and move on

if its not meant for us then don't post it or post it somewhere else, seriously how hard is this idea to grasp huh?
The same way how making thread why you don't like DMC4 Dante or what you want to see in a next game isn't direct to anyone but you just want to get your idea or something out there.

he's not reading this forum on a daily basis and probably will never see your post because if you can believe it, he's an adult
I made a reply to this same question look above
...not you, you don't work for Ninja Theory, you don't have stocks invested in them, and has far as I know none of you have relatives/friends and loved ones that work for them.
and you don't work for the antidmc force so we don't feel like hearing your bitching and nonsensical ramblings anymore
Nonsensical it makes more sense than this game's plot

spending time insulting things you don't like is generally immature and unproductive, i'm not a fan of justin bieber, so do i go to his concerts and conventions and go to forums to talk about how much i don't like him, no i don't, i just ignore it, THAT'S the mature thing to do, not dwell on something you don't like -_-
Last time I checked this isn't a DmC forum but a DMC forum.

just like the people who don't like DmC
I don't really see it on this forum which I'm mainly referring to.

"Hah its okay to insult DmC but when I insult DMC4 or DMC2 I get flak for it"..wah wah wah....I say BUULLLSH*T.
oh so its whining when we point out the flaws in the old series but its not whining when you bitch about the new game for the third year in a row
I never said you can't whine or counter me but I've seen people say stuff like.

and no one is stopping you from paying a visit to the other sub forums to talk about something you like instead of literally doing the opposite
The same way how no one is stopping you from keeping on replying

true but unlike you and a ****load of the other anti dmc fans WE DON'T go to the other forums to constantly talk about the flaws of the old series like you do -_-
I've been on this forum for almost a year now and this is the only place I've posted this thread. If you want I can go to every other DMC, DmC, or gaming thread and post this argument there.

so basically to convince us -_- something which you completely failed to do
Who says to convince you or a pro-DmC that comment was made towards the antis who are already convinced that DmC is a bad game not worthy of the DMC name.

oh excuse me for liking a coherent story where the characters actually develop and have backstories with characters like eva getting more than one line in the whole series
Co-coherant..hahaha..development..man you should be a comedian. You know that Eva was potentially in Vergil's head

coming up with a bunch of bullshit points that all got debunked multiple times only doesn't show anyone anything, if anything, it showed that you didn't know what you were talking about and didn't bother to look up the answers to more than half the questions you asked
I read every post..no you guys didn't.

no its not since we debunked all of your bullshit points that made no sense so basically this entire thread was a fail on your point and you shouldn't bother and btw, look up the world inconsistent because you used it incorrectly multiple times now, btw, look up satire and how this game uses satire -_-
Firstly, I never said anything about satire. No you guys and you guys BARELY debunked anything and said stuff like how its just use your imagination to solve some of the questions, and you guys didn't answer all of my the questions...trust me I saw.

Fine forget how I presented my argument lets discuss my points in the initial post then. This is getting us nowhere and is derailing the thread's the entire point...the game's story.

just because you say "OH YOU BARELY DEBUNKED MY POINTS" doesn't mean that we didn't completely debunk your points kid -__- seriously, are you delusional or are you just too egotistical to say you are wrong, i debunked your point and got a **** ton of likes and people telling me thank you for explaining -__- seriously dude, let it go, we answered all your questions and now you're raging and making a fool out of yourself lashing out at anyone who gave a proper response, honestly..i'll be the mature one here and leave you to your incipient thread where you are indefinitely right just because you say so

 

[Stylish Nero]

Okay the plot holes reconstruction.

Plot hole #1 counter-argument
don't even understand how this is a problem, is it a fad for dmc games to have you backtrack and fight the same bosses over and over, is that good game design, no, so why would NT include this, you are literally complaining about NT not opting to take the easy way out and re-use boss characters, way to go kid, i'll be sure to write NT a letter asking them to re-use every boss fight three times in the sequel and have an entire level dedicated a dice minigame, for all we know there was only one giant hunter demon and then several demon collaborators which makes more sense than reusing the same boss over and over

They didn't had to reuse the same Hunter boss fight. There could've been other Hunters with separate combat abilities and appearances but Tameem and his team were probably too lazy to give us more bosses in a game with the lowest amount of bosses and boss fights and none of them were really any good. Its the writings fault to address them as Hunters when there was only one and when they did address them as a group and even Kat refer to the Hunters as a group not one individual. So it makes no sense that if there were groups of these elite hunter demons but only one is shown and ever shown and its odd the others despite being elite hunters with one who found Dante can't find him now since he is gone out to be more public. NT sure as hell weren't afraid to make us fight Poison again as Mundus (literally the same boss fight just re-skinned and a slight change up in moveset....a small moveset) beat boss go to next platform if he/she spews magma on the floor and hit til health bar is low and demon pull or Hollow Vergil in DF which is practically Vergil with a few new tricks.

MAJOR Plot hole #2: Why did it take Mundus so long to find Dante or even find out that he lives for
it doesn't take Mundus thirteen years for him to find dante considering that dante was imprisoned in a hell prison, (which is a giant demon btw) and escaped ONE YEAR prior to the game's events, hence the reason why Mundus was looking for him, he was actually ABOUT TO BE KILLED but was saved by his father who gave him the rebellion sword
One Year? Mundus was looking for Dante eversince he raided Dante's home and killed his mother and imprisoned his father.
He was about to be killed when he was a little kid and hid by Sparda and Mundus haven't found him til recently and its during or after the Hunters...I mean Hunter found his trailer park which is the plot hole that Mundus, who not only controls the world and have surveillance cameras everywhere didn't spot him especially since he is infamous everywhere. Look at the opening cutscene Mundus not only was looking for Dante but even know his name (so you can't say he didn't know who the Son of Sparda was) so why then did Mundus have recently found him...how hard is it to find someone you've been looking for and wasn't hid that greatly either. He was tearing it up in Limbo too and was in Mundus's penitentiaries so he could've killed Dante then or had him killed when young.
Plus Dante lost his memory after the event, so he would remember getting Rebellion from his father and he doesn't even remember his own father or how he looked so that can't be the case.

 

[EllDawn]

Just to let you know, I didn't read all of the opening post. After reading the first two or three paragraphs it just seemed like what's been said by others a little too often. But, now I'm going to do a more serious post because this is really getting ridiculous.

Whether you hate, or love the story, fine. That's your choice. Ranting about it gets tiring because of how often it's done. That's the problem here. If you want to be seen as mature, make your opinion and then leave it alone. Don't write a mile-long post that seems more like you're trying to shove your opinion down everyone's throats.

There's one quote from Tameem that I keep seeing everyone quote, that what was cool some years ago isn't now. Believe it or not, but this is actually true. Look at the games, clothes, hair styles, anything from the 80s or 90s and then look at what there is now. This is what his quote made me think of. Things change. Sure old fashions repeat, but it takes time. The games from those years were extremely different from how they are now. Remember Duck Hunt? The original Mario? Some of these are still alive today, but they've also changed to fit the times. In appearance and story.

What Tameem was trying to do was make a game he was asked to work on. I'm sure there was a lot more he wanted to include, but was held back on. That's the problem with everything these days. With films you get what was originally planned by the director, only to be cut down to something the audience will accept. It happens with video games, too.

I don't worship Tameem, but I do believe that his reaction to all the attacks he was getting was to be expected. There's only so much a person can take. We've reached the point where the saying of, "the customer is always right" is taken far too seriously and everyone believes they run everything in the world when they don't. I wish NT could release their original idea for DmC without being limited by Capcom and fans. If it's like the Director's cuts of films I've seen, I'd be willing to bet it's better than what was originally released.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

Okay, so I got bored. Have some responses in bold...

Minor Plot hole #1: The Hunter...or Hunter(s). Why did Lilith mentioned that the Hunters not Hunter but HunterS will find Dante but only one was shown and it was stated that they were more of them (hell Lilith referred to them as a group) but after the first one none where shown afterwards. A really huge missed opportunity for this game's story and a minor contradiction.

We didn't see all the Hunters, so suddenly that means they don't exist? They sent one because they thought it would be enough. It wasn't. The Hunter followed a pinpointed location (to Dante's trailer), and after being killed, that pinpoint no longer worked, as Dante was no longer there. They still "had his scent," but that can only do so much.

More Hunters could have been implemented in the game, but they probably didn't have the time or resources to put in another one and make it work in the narrative. I would have liked to see more of them show up, but...oh well.

And "classic DMC did this so they could have to" is no excuse when it was really just game-padding back then. Repeated bosses are extremely boring sometimes, and the only time they work is when there's a narrative-driven reason for it, and even then it can still get boring.

Not a plothole.

MAJOR Plot hole #2: Why did it take Mundus so long to find Dante or even find out that he lives for 1) Dante himself stated that he is always thrown into Limbo for quite sometime and yet Mundus never figured out a punk with a sword who is constantly thrown into Limbo by HIS OWN demon minions and manages to fend them off like they were nothing. Really Mundus???

Mundus probably isn't privy to everything ever dragged into Limbo. Plus, since Dante kills every demon he sees, there's no one to report back and tell them what exactly happened.

2) Doesn't he have f*cking cameras everywhere that can drag people into Limbo for surveillance cameras and the fact demons see everything with them Mundus couldn't tell this guy with a sword that belongs to one his most if not most loyal former lieutenant but worst of all he has a screen that shows what those cameras and the news project in his room...the room he is ALWAYS in for the most part but yet never noticed Dante til recently and not because of them either

CCTV Cameras don't make one omnipotent, and his office doesn't have a direct feed to everything all at once. If he's out on business, or not watching a partifular feed, he'd probably miss things. Not to mention that it's still easy enough to avoid CCTV on the streets, and the fact that Dante still just looks like a normal dude. Not until "they had his scent" at the beginning of the game could they start picking Dante out of the crowds and dragging him into Limbo like they do in Under Watch.

3) Dante for awhile goes to a club that Lilith HIS mistress Lilith owns and he is VERY infamous there so I'm all like the dafuq. So Mundus is finding about him NOW...or better yet that he was orphaned in a orphanage and has a HUGE and not just minor but HUGE history of crime and violence in the city and so Mundus who rules the world apparently should know about him and yet one day after 10 years from killing Eva and enslaving Sparda he goes "Oh...the Son of Sparda is alive" just like that....so now I'm like..

Dante might be popular with the ladies at the nightclub that he frequents, but that doesn't instantly mean everyone is going to know he's the Son of Sparda. They explicitly called him "Son of Sparda" because they didn't know his identity, like his name being Dante or what he looks like.

Mundus also didn't just up and go "oh, he's still alive." He actually said he needed to take care of one last loose end. He knew about Dante the whole time, he just wasn't a priority.

And having a criminal record doesn't mean too much either, as I'm sure there are plenty of people far better and far worse than Dante in that regard. Dante has a history of violence, but there's no simple way to put two and two together and come out with him having been the Son of Sparda.

Dante also falls off the grid after a certain point in his life, and some of what Barbas says is all lies anyway, so don't take everything that guy said as fact on Dante's history.

Jesus this is as bad if not worst than when Dante left the Sword of Sparda in the demon world but at least than you can justify it as Dante's kindness over thinking his way of thinking and it wasn't a plot hole. Either Mundus really don't rule the world, just suck at it, or wasn't paying attention when Dante is parading in his town with traffic signs and major hints saying "SON OF SPARDA HERE!!!! RIGHT IN THE OPEN!!! FIGHTING DEMONS IN LIMBO!!!! FAMOUS REBELLION SWORD FROM SPARDA!!! RANDOM PUNK EVERYONE, THE NEWS YOU OWN, THE SECURITY YOU OWN, AND THE CLUB YOUR B*TCH OWNS KNOW ABOUT ME!!!" and Mundus one day without even looking at the obvious hints just feels the Son of Sparda is alive......

Now those were just plot holes and there are plenty of other BS in this story that could be considered plot holes but to me aren't from a technical stand point just stupid sh*t.

Dante's troubled childhood of seeing and being hassled by demons wasn't really all that different than Kat's and probably several others who had the misfortune of being able to see Limbo and the demons. Dante was a troublemaker to them, and that was all. And since he kills every demon he comes across, there's no real way for the demons to know they were actually getting slaughtered by a boy using Rebellion.

They also didn't know they were hassling the Son of Sparda back then. They didn't start calling Dante the Son of Sparda until the game began. They knew there was a Son of Sparda, but didn't know who it was. They weren't calling Dante the Son of Sparda on billboards his entire life. Hell, Dante didn't even know he was the Son of Sparda...

This is how it went down - Mundus kills Eva, Dante watched this happen. Mundus loses sight of the child, and Sparda sends Dante and Vergil to orphanages. Mundus probably had more important things to do than worry about a little kid regardless of how much a threat he could pose later, not to mention that by confronting Mundus, a child or even grown man, would still be no match for him thanks to the Hell Gate.

The fact that Vergil wasn't known to Mundus is what made things work out the way they did. Mundus had no idea there was someone out there with a key to lock away his immortality, so he thought that even if the Son of Sparda was still alive, it wasn't too much of a threat at that point.

Not a plothole.

Now onto missed opportunities/questioning the story.

Fail #1: Why would Sparda hide him, his wife, and family in a mansion in the beach side from the demon king and his army...not really that good really and not do crap about it in case they tried to looking for him which is pretty obvious they'll look for him?

We don't really know how far away Paradise actually is. It could have been in a completely different region than the city. Plus, Mundus isn't omnipotent, so he has no inclination to think a family buying beachfront property is suspicious.

Not a plothole.

Fail #2: How can they find Sparda and his family when they tried hiding but couldn't notice Dante when he clearly wasn't hiding and was out in the open...in a trailer park...on a pier?

They knew who Sparda was, thus making it easier to find him. They didn't know who Dante was, what he looked like, or even his name, which, believe it or not, makes it pretty dang hard to find someone...

Not a plothole.

Fail #3: How is Mundus afraid of Nephilim or is considered his only weakness or the thing that can kill him when regardless he has a hell gate that makes him immortal so whats the point of hyping up Dante and Vergil when Mundus can't be killed regardless and if his hell gate is gone then a Nephilim really isn't the only thing that can slay him then for trust me Mundus as a boss didn't show off anything impressive to say only this species can beat him?
Vergil: As Nephilim we are the only ones who can kill Mundus.
Later
Vergil: Mundus has a hell gate that makes him immortal so if we can shut it down (via my Yamato) he is mortal and we can slay him.
Dante: So as Nephilim we really can't kill him.
Vergil:..........shut up Dante.

Nephilim can wander wherever they want, which means they could walk right up to Limbo without fear to confront him.

The Hell Gate is a different matter, but since when the Hell Gate is closed we see a lot of blue energy come out of Yamato, maybe it has something to do with angelic power. And since angels can't set foot in Limbo, a demon with angelic power (like a Nephilim) is the next best thing that can close the Hell Gate.

Not really a plothole, if only because they don't say more about the prophecy. Either way, Limbo isn't as much of a hindrance to the Nephilim as it is to the demons' other enemies, and that made them a huge threat.

Plus, a prophecy isn't always correct to the T, is it? They're oftentimes rather vague on certain elements.

Fail #4: How come killing Bob, a demon, granted him an Angel weapon and how come beating the Hunter, an highly skilled demon made for fighting unlike Bob and Poison...so says the story, didn't grant him a weapon (for Bob was taken down by a bullet, Hunter was impervious to that sh*t so he is clearly a better fighter and stronger demon than Bob but no demon weapon)?

We don't know why killing Barbas gives an angel-class weapon (probably something to do with soul energy used to craft one), but not getting one from the Hunter still operates on the idea that Devil Arms exist in DmC's universe. From what we know, DmC doesn't operate in that fashion.

Also - Bob was killed in his Human form. So was Lilith. And Mundus. If the soul is in the vessel, it will die with the vessel. Mundus was immortal because the Hell Gate let him project his energy into the Kyle Rider vessel, but he wasn't in it. When the Hell Gate was closed, Mundus' soul became trapped in the vessel, allowing him to be killed.

Oh, and like the Hunter, bullets also didn't work on Poison, or Barbas, or Mundus, or Lilith until certain circumstances were met. The only difference here is that Kat helped Dante with the Hunter, rendering him vulnerable to bullets.

Fail #5(not really a fail but a WTH): How come Dante has his sword hidden and can summon on his back it at will but Vergil must carry his sword around and in fact he is always shown holding it and most of all how come Vergil's sword can destroy the hell gate or was made to close the hell gate (its nice to see them reuse plot elements from DMC4 the one game every DmC-pro hate on for its story)?

Magical aptitude is the best way to put it. Dante wasn't as powerful magically as Vergil was, so his hair hadn't changed when they were children, and that's why Rebellion could only appear in Limbo - an entire dimension of demonic power. That's probably why Dante ended up liking E&I so much, as they were a weapon he could use outside of Limbo.

At the end of the game, Dante is a lot stronger, so now he can summon Rebellion at will, and his hair is permanently white.

Not a plothole.

Yamato being able to close the Hell Gate? I dunno, reference to the originals, obviously, and the weapons, Rebellion and Yamato, were made for specific purposes, so...Yamato can close the Hell Gate because...it...was...made to do that...?

Not a plothole, just not explained.

Fail #6: How come Dante (even Vergil) was more invulnerable to pain despite being half demon and half angel compared to his half demon half human counterpart? Shouldn't being half demon and half angel...both beings above human strength and ability make him more OP not much less than half demon half human?

This is trying to compare different power levels of characters from different universes. Plus, they're still in human forms, with human organs, and human pain receptors. Classic Dante used to shrug off injuries sometimes, and DmC Dante does the same.

Not a plothole.

Fail #7: Why was his fight with Vergil gave him full white hair instantly (went from partial white to full white) and yet Vergil was born with white hair and Dante didn't? Don't give me the dominant genes crap for Dante was stronger Vergil and Vergil recently unlocked or achieved his full demonic power after losing to Dante.

Sorry, but it would just be a case of "dominant genes." Like I said, Vergil had greater aptitude for the demonic (and angelic) magic, while Dante just relied on brute strength most of the time. Dante could beat Vergil in a physical fight because Dante just goes all out, and didn't rely on magical means, but physical ones.

It's like...who's stronger - a Fighter or a Mage?

Vergil also didn't just "recently unlock his full demonic power after losing to Dante." He had quite a bit before they had even met at the beginning of the game. In Vergil's Downfall, Vergil gains a lot of new power. As it were, Dante becomes on par with Vergil at the end of DmC, but then Vergil becomes more powerful than Dante at the end of Vergil's Downfall.

Fail #8: Why were the pendants completely irrelevant to the plot if they were shown and not only shown but made a big deal of...I mean the pendants(well Dante's) were shown on the title screen and parading around as if it were significant but nothing happened? You can take them out and the overall story wouldn't change at all..hell even Vergil's Downfall wouldn't change and there they tried to remotely make it relevant. Having them (amulets not pendants) there would be as if DMC2 & DMC4 had them there and they didn't.

The Amulets weren't really completely irrelevant, but they also didn't play as huge a role as the classics - which isn't a bad thing. They're shown prominently enough because they're a link to Dante and Vergil's family, and also their inner power. When Dante gains his Devil Trigger in DmC, beams of red shoot into his amulet, and Dante often held it fondly. That importance to Devil Trigger was again hinted at when Vergil couldn't DT having lost his amulet in Vergil's Downfall.

The importance of the amulets for DT was there since DmC, not just Vergil's Downfall. And it was also important to Dante as a memento of his mother, who he really cared about.

Not a plothole/fail - you just need to pay attention to the little things.

Fail #9: How come at their old home Dante was able to get the gifts/special weapons/abilities/gear their parents left them but Vergil who was their before Dante (hinted I think)..didn't get crap from his parents? Don't give me the Limbo excuse...for Dante wasn't dragged into there, Vergil and Kat send him there and Vergil apparently has ways of getting into Limbo as how would he have saved Kat in Limbo.

Dante's weapons all come from Rebellion changing form. Yamato doesn't change form. Dante got different weapons because that's what Rebellion is built for. Vergil didn't get more weapons because the Yamato was built for a different purpose - closing the Hell Gate.

Not a plothole.

Fail #10: WHERE THE HELL ARE THE ANGELS??? For some big war going between them....somewhere...we sure as hell didn't see any angels. I'm surprised that Dante and Vergil didn't make a run into any angels (good, evil, or neutral). Its like while humans and the sons of Eva and Sparda were fighting their battles they just stayed in Heaven with their thumb stuck up their bums doing jack sh*t about it. Their was SOOOO much opportunities they could've been used as (prisoners of war in Mundus's penitentiary, wounded soldiers on the battlefield, twisted souls used by Mundus...would've been awesome to fight a dark angel boss would've made more sense getting a angel weapon from it than Bob...a demon, hell even members/guardian angels of the Order)..yet no...not even a special minor role in the universe/story like how demons have a role but no nothing they're there for the sake of being there.

Demons have control of the world, and can readily retreat to Limbo, an impenetrable dimension.

Seeing angels would have been nice, but the way they set up the state of the world, it sorta made sense why we didn't see them. I mean...you don't readily see soldiers hanging around the enemy's capitol city. Being that deep into enemy territory is suicide.

Fail #11: What was in Vergil's data collection that it had to been saved? It doesn't matter for not only was it not answered or explored its made completely irrelevant by the end of the game.

It was all of the information that The Order had collected, and all of their operational plans they would have wanted to use to strike against the demons. If someone knew your plans of attack, they'd be able to defend against them, wouldn't they? Keeping that out of the hands of the enemy is crucial to keep yourself at a decent position to fight. That's why spies are such a huge thing to worry about - if the enemy knows your plans, you're boned.

You're right that the info did become useless in the end, but it's not like Vergil knew they would be able to save Kat, who would then supply them with information to immediately strike back against Mundus at his tower. To Vergil, he was planning on how to continue his plans after Kat was gone - he didn't think he'd be getting help from her anymore.

Not a plothole. Pay more attention.

Fail #12: Why does that penitentiary Mundus own have such low security? Based on what I've seen Dante busted into that place quite easily and it apparently harbors not just victims but other Nephilim and a guy who knows all of Mundus's secrets (Phineas) so you think it would have much better security or better yet why does Mundus keep people he would consider dangerous enough to lock away alive especially the Nephilims and Phineas or at least seal them away somewhere WHERE NO ONE can get to them...like Sparda....which leads me to another point.

It's a prison for humans, primarily, and by human standards, what Dante did to bust into it wasn't easy at all. There are no other Nephilim besides Dante and Vergil though, Assiel's statue was just a statue...maybe with her soul trapped inside it.

And Phineas was old as all hell, and wasn't suited to fighting anyway, he wasn't much of a threat to anyone on the outside. The fact that he was able to help Dante inside the prison wasn't a factor that could have been accounted for since, a) who would think the Son of Sparda would go to that prison, and b) Dante would never have been put there to begin with, so he never would have met Phineas if not for the plan that took Dante into the prison.

Fail #13: How does Phineas GAIN SO MUCH INFO ABOUT MUNDUS despite being LOCKED AWAY? This is a problem as Phineas knows stuff not even Vergil who has agents and intel gatherers everywhere apparently. So one guy locked away in a prison...a pretty crappy one too, can gain more valuable info than a guy with a whole network resources?

Phineas is clairvoyant. He "sees things," which is a reference to his etymology, Phineus, a Greek King who could see everything, was blinded by the gods for telling people too much about their futures or things they shouldn't know. Sound kinda familiar?

Clairvoyance is a little better than your run-of-the-mill human intel gatherers that The Order has.

It's like asking "how do these people in prison know about who won the Superbowl" when they've got TV in there

Fail #14: Why did that floating statue....Nephilim..Asziel...forgot how to spell her name...unlock his Devil Trigger? Is this Crash Bandicoot? If so how did Vergil unlock his Devil Trigger?Another question...how come that Nephilim chick didn't look human while Dante and Vergil both looked human?

The statue was a statue, and probably had Assiel's soul in it or something (since the eyes weren't normal), so it didn't not look human like Dante and Vergil because...it was a statue... >.< That crest Dante grabbed pulled him into that purified region of Limbo where Dante learns things (like the Blue Roses), and essentially helped him "unlock the Devil inside."

That being said, the Devil Trigger is something on the inside, so Vergil, who we've already talked about being more magically inclined than Dante, didn't need as much help as Dante did.

Fail #15: Why did Vergil get witch tim...I mean Bullet Time or slowed down time in that scene in the car when they're about to crash after the Trade but doesn't afterwards without any explanation? Since when did time slowed down in Limbo or can slow down in Limbo?

That was Vergil slowing down time, that was the ripples of Malice that Mundus blasted out in anger. Technically, to Vergil and Kat, who weren't in Limbo, they probably didn't feel any slow down.

Fail #16: Why did Mundus create a world of stability when his plan was to harvest human souls? What harvesting human souls even do anyway?

It was food, I think. They use human souls for food and energy, like how we keep cows content before we slaughter them for juicy burgers.

He didn't create a world of stability to help the humans. He thought humans were useless beyond being farmed for their souls. And honestly, the world depicted wasn't so stable...was it? Either way, Mundus controlling the world the way he did was subtle and very subversive; he literally controls the world without actually being known as the one in control. And when people fight him, his enemies look like the bad guy (terrorists) because to the public, Mundus, or the banker Kyle Rider rather, is the one helping the world.

Most of all..

Fail #17: Why wasn't the Order developed on or used a bit more....f*ck it...AT ALL!? I mean they're mentioned to be an organization of what I guess are humans who are out to overthrow the demon empire on Earth and work for Vergil and that is it and after that THAT IS IT. They're easily taken down by the demons and the SWAT team and made irrelevant like they never happened and to tell you the truth it felt like they never existed as they didn't do anything. We physically or literally don't see any other members or is mentioned of their works nor did they have any impact on the story. They were practically like the angels. They were virtually there to make Vergil more cooler or add more to him as a character or add more dramatic effect when he decides to leave them behind so we can judge Vergil but it DOESN'T F*CKING WORK as no attempt is made to make us care for the Order as there is NOTHING TO CARE about. They're the least most developed part of the game's "STRONG FOCUS ON NARRATIVE" that shouldn't have been. Jesus The Order of the Sword was more developed on in DMC4 than these guys who we know nothing about their works and effect on the overall story wasn't there even if NT tried it to be through Vergil.

The Order's headquarters got raided in the game, but that wasn't all of them. They're a larger network of more than just the people who got shot up in that building.

Remember the end of the game, where it started showing the public's reactions to seeing the demons? Not all those internet posts were "OMG monsters!" and "WTF is going on!?" One of them, the most prominent even, was a hasthag about "Demons, we have awoken," written by someone privy to the demons beforehand. That was someone from The Order spreading the word.

We don't physically see Anonymous, do we? But they still exist.

The bigger point is that things start to move pretty fast after The Order gets raided, so we don't get a chance to see a lot of them. Not to mention that overall The Order isn't an army that's out on the streets, its numbers are anonymous, and it could be anyone. The focus of the story is Dante and his struggles, not particularly The Order's, unfortunately. The two just happen to coincide at certain points.

These are just merely missed opportunities and show casings of Tameem's (he wrote it himself) writing skills.

Most aren't missed opportunities, you just weren't paying attention, or didn't give enough thought to them beyond the judgment you wanted to get.

Continued in the next post...

 

[ZeroLove]

I was the one who said you had chickened out. Well, those were not the words I used, but it was basically the same. But you had real-life things to attend to and I respect that. They are more important than this.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

Now onto characters.

Dante in DmC is basically Dante in DMC3. A party boy who just don't give a crap and have no purpose in life but to party and go crazy and doesn't take things seriously but DmC pushed this notion to the extreme. In DmC, in the beginning Dante was literally 10x more of a wild party boy than DMC3 Dante he went out drank, caused fights, had TONS of casual sex with random strippers/prostitutes and fought demons too. He was that douchebag at the party that almost everyone hated (or loved if you were chick turned on by sexy a$$holes) and was an overall juvenile delinquent with a track record. DMC3 Dante though he loved partying he only did out of boredom and doesn't like being bored. He wants excitement but nothing in his life was exciting and later tries to start up a job/career/his shop for random business (usually mercenary work) to find this excitement. He wasn't a party boy like DmC Dante he just wanted excitement in his life...don't we all. DMC3 Dante really speaks to the gamer as we play games to find some sort of excitement especially stylish action games so we can easily relate to DMC3 Dante. Plus it suits his tragic past really well as possibly his constant lust for excitement and fuddyduddy attitude is used as a way for him to get over his tragic past of his mother's death and the fact he learns that his brother is alive but potentially evil probably. So Dante wasn't a juvenile delinquent, or really a crazy part boy but some dude who wanted to get over his past with excitement the same way we play games to unwind and unload and forget about most of our troubles. From a GAMING NARRATIVE this works much better than making the protagonist an unlikeable prick (Tameem himself stated this Dante is meant to be..MEANT TO BE an a$$hole) not just to the player but even various other characters in the game's narrative because he doesn't remember his past and was tortured by demons since he was young but from a psychological standpoint Dante's character can be anything (he can be insane or like how he was in the first DmC trailer, suffer from hysteria or phobia, or even conspirator, but a partying a$$hole who doesn't care and doesn't question the unnormal or supernatural seems to be what Tameem chose to do).

DmC Dante's backstory works well for him, given the circumstances and the state of the world. One of the biggest points is that Dante is a hedonist not because he's bored (like DMC3 Dante), but because he's attacked by demons so much he doesn't think he'll live for very long. He revels in the excess vices of life because the instant gratification it all gives, and that's what he wants, because he believes at some point the demons will finally have killed him.

DmC Dante hasa sh!tty life he believes won't last for very long, so he'd rather have fun, y'know?

That's part of his character development - realizing there's more to life than his selfish desires, and that by trusting people he might actually be able to live a lot longer.

Now as progression of character. DmC's came off as sloppy when it came to Dante. They tried to throw in the whole revenge plot like they did in DMC1 as a way to make Dante care or slowly progress him into caring and developing as a character and went with it from there. However, it failed for after they threw it in there but making him change his own agenda of revenge to it being about freedom and justice but went about it so poorly to the point his whole development felt too structured and written in a step by step process on how to make an unlikeable character likeable.

Step 1: Make him an uncaring, don't take anything seriously party boying a$$hole.

Step 2: Introduce his long lost brother and make him learn about his past and the memories he forgotten.

Step 3: Have him develop a vendetta against main antagonist

Step 4: Make him have a relationship with chick who will make him question his humanity

Step 5: Make him develop a sense of justice from getting a tough decision (killing the child or not killing the child)

Step 6: Make him care about humanity because of one girl being put in danger

Step 7: Now he cares about humanity make him fight his brother and later question his humanity..end game.

Sometimes priorities change, that's just how things go. It makes for an interesting narrative. Plus, when you dilute everything down into those steps, anything is gonna sound crappy.

I'm not saying DmC was incredibly written, but I do think it was done well enough. You do need to actually pay attention, however...

They must've f*cked up somewhere after Step 3....maybe step 4. Yes Kat, his interactions with her was supposed to help develop his character to care about mankind but those felt lackluster. They only had like 4 quick conversations (not all of the were character building conversations) and even then it would be enough for him to care about Kat not all of a sudden change his goal of revenge to a goal of justice/freedom when in reality, he and his brother's actions caused more human casualties than Mundus even thought of doing. I wasn't convinced at all he threw away his goal for revenge for freedom because of one girl.

That's because he didn't do it explicitly because of one girl. It's what she represented. Kat showed him that humans have suffered just as much, if not more, than Dante has, and that he's not alone. In the end, it becomes a "kill two birds with one stone" sorta deal - Dante gets revenge for his family, and he also helps humanity gain its freedom.

It's sorta like classic Dante wanting revenge for the death of his family, so he opens up Devil May Cry, where he is both willfully helping humanity, and getting closer to the getting revenge.

It did work out a bit for when he decided to fight Vergil but WHY THE FLYING F*CK DID IT TAKE KAT to have Dante not kill his own brother. Jesus DMC3 Vergil was about to unleash the Apocalypse on mankind and Dante there tried to save him cause they're blood and brothers...something DmC Dante said (cause we're brothers afterall). Practically throwing away DmC Dante's relationship building with Vergil over the course of the game.

Dante was in the thralls of anger from his Devil Trigger, so it was a bit difficult for him to readily not think about killing his own brother. At that point he just wanted to stop him at all costs. Kat, representing Dante's compassion, pleads with him to stop, literally to not kill so flippantly as a demon would. Dante does stop because he doesn't want to kill Vergil, and knows it's not particularly necessary.

Vergil sorta was the one who threw away all the brotherly relationship built up over the course of the game when he found out Dante wanted no part of his plans to rule over humanity, and literally told him to stand aside.

That ruins DmC Dante's character development in DmC versus DMC3. Now lets take a quick look at DMC3 Dante...that Dante never said he CARED about MANKIND now did he, he embraced his humanity (as stated in DMC4) but if anything he didn't care much if mankind was thrown into an everlasting hell for the overall story wasn't developed or was leading us to think that way he if anything developed a SENSE OF RESPONSIBILITY. Before he thought it was only about him and his own family problems that he tries to either run away from or fix but doesn't concern others. After seeing Lady, who too was like him in this criteria he realized that his family problems were negatively affecting others, its his family problems that Vergil, his brother, unleashed Temen-ni-Gru upon the world, its his family problem that Lady suffered because her father went bat-sh*t crazy craving Sparda's, his father, power, and its due to his family problems that the world was about to thrown into chaos because he and his brother's petty rivalry led to Arkham obtaining HIS mother's perfect amulet. Before he was only in this for the fun and excitement to see what Vergil was up to..he wasn't fully aware of the full issue but when he did he soon "realized was important" and that was taking responsibility of his own family problems and soon maturing to an adult who would pick up his father's legacy, a legacy he ignored because either of some grudge against his father for causing all of these problems or wasn't for him.

Okay...? DMC3 was a prequel, but we already knew from 1 and 2 that Dante cared about humanity, for some reason. Mostly DMC3 helped us understand a bit more of why he values humanity, and why he values his human side while Vergil just cast it aside.

Vergil......nope....forget ruining Vergil in the image of DMC1/3 Vergil this Vergil as a character is a rather poorly written character on his own. Its mostly of Downfall, where his character from the main story is contradicting now all of a sudden he cares about Kat despite trying to abandon her before then he complains about his mom loving Dante more than him because Dante is better than him. Now he comes off as petty and a big baby really blaming his defeat to Dante on his mother and tied into the comic his hatred (cause calling your own mom a whore doesn't signify hatred) for his mom makes no sense nor was it ever properly developed or comes off as pathetic. Vergil's character over the course of the story and Downfall just make him seem more pathetic and whiney. Its practically like his DMC3 counterpart because both want to achieve something selfish despite who gets hurt. However, Vergil in DMC3 managed to have honor and some values. This Vergil is dirty, cheap, manipulative, though good traits as a villain but are used so wrong to the point he becomes unlikeable even as a villain. Plus people say this Vergil is better because he have clear motifs unlike his DMC3 self who wants power for the sake of power well..WRONG.

First of the 2 Vergils have different motivations for their actions and ones motivations/reasoning must be higher to meet the logic behind your goals or motivations. DmC Vergil wanted to rule mankind because he viewed them similar to Mundus or felt he was above them....problem is this makes no sense for the reason is that he didn't develop a reason to want to rule them or feel that they can't rule themselves for here is why. A) He grew up in an age runned by Mundus so there was no indication during his life time humans can't lead themselves if Mundus was running the shots all along B) He has no virtual experience or even a hint to want to develop this goal as he personally never witness the true errors of mankind. I mean he lived a peaceful life and it was f*cked up by demons not humans. At Mundus who has been around for over 4000 years have witnessed the errors of mankind and wanted to bring order. There was no hint that Vergil viewed them the same until the end and there was tension or build up...its just "I wanna rule". If it is because "I'm a Nephilim so I'm above them so I must rule them its my destiny"..which frankly due to Downfall I think it was just so. At least with DMC3 Vergil, he did have a bad experience that showed how powerless he was to protect his mother and brother and the feeling of powerlessness drove him to want more power to the point he shun his humanity. It may not have been directly in your face...VERGIL WANTED MORE POWER TO MAKE UP FOR NOT BEING ABLE TO PROTECT HIS MUMMY!!!! but Arkham taunted him on it.

The 2 Vergil's wanted different things.

DMC3 Vergil just more power.

DmC Vergil to rule mankind.

DmC Vergil's goals are much higher so his reasoning and logic must be set a higher precipitate than DMC3 Vergil whose implied reason was enough to justify him just wanting to become like his father. DmC Vergil wants to rule mankind because he think he should. By DF he only wanted power just to meet this goal.


That's sort of the point. Vergil is a conniving piece of dirt, and in Vergil's Downfall he's pretty much mentally broken. Vergil's Downfall is a lot of his inner turmoil born from everything that happened in his life, which he tried to ignore. The fact that he starts blaming other characters for his shortcomings is actually a classic villain trope, and is even just something real-life d-bags do. It's literally a feeling of "there's nothing wrong with me" and trying to make other people look bad in order to justify what happens in their life, or diminish their failures.

Vergil's unraveling mental state caused him to seek out "more power" in order to prevent further shortcomings and to be regarded highly, either by respect or fear.

This is opinion at this point, but I thought that was actually a rather interesting idea for showing how Vergil becomes even more of an evil jerk than he was in the main game.


Lastly, Kat.....man I'm tired. Yes Kat is a weak female protagonist. She is just to help boost up and empower the main male protagonist and people go on about how she is not oversexualized like Trish and Lady in DMC4 when they tend to ignore how often she bends over, how extremely short her jeans are for no reason, and implied rape signifying to have a female protagonist they need to be physically or sexually abused. Being oversexualized doesn't mean just having big tits you know, Kat was JAILBAIT...skinny, fragile girl (man she look a doll made from sticks and twigs) with a rather exposing top meant to be a more subtle piece of ass.

There's no implied rape with Kat's backstory. The people who imply that are the ones who use that "implied rape" as a bad quality.

Her being abused in and of itself doesn't make her special in narrative, since we know so many others have gone through the same thing, especially Dante. It's like how a movie that takes place in a mental asylum doesn't portray each character's mental illness as something that makes them wholly unique, but as just another trait of their character.

Kat was somewhat sexy, but it's clearly different than Trish, Lady, and Gloria.

Now back to her character, as a defining female character in an action game especially DMC she is much below Trish, Lady, and even Lucia. I'll put her on the same level as Kyrie (probably lower as Kyrie isn't treated as Jail Bait) for granted unlike Kyrie she was useful at the beginning...THE BEGINNING but Kyrie did bring Nero his sword and risked her life to save a kid but Kyrie isn't a medium, psychic, or demon hunter. The fact is she did something not of her jurisdiction or power that kind of put her as a likeable character she was practically no different than the tons of civilians being slaughtered and massacred by the demons but regardless she risked her life to save a boy when she could've did nothing and have Nero or Credo (who were next to her) do it. Though Kat was useful in helping Dante and Vergil halfway in her character is downgraded to Kyrie levels, a girl who needed saving by the main protagonist and was only there to serve the development of the main protagonist. She didn't even get her own character arc and all of her actions were done in benefit to be used as substances for Dante or Vergil's character building arcs. She barely developed as a character, scratch that she didn't develop at all. We heard her backstory and after that became a damsel in distress and forgotten til the end and the thing is she was poorly put in there for a rather selfish purpose (like a majority if not all of the Sonic cast) to be a new female protagonist, because all the past DMC games did that, which is to used to be build Dante's character and that is it. Hell the story would work fine WITHOUT her and I think she is what bring the story down. I find Dante coming to gripes with his own humanity and questioning himself through his own actions and their effects as well as him finding himself in the world and developing a sense of responsibility rather than developing a care for mankind because of one girl (shallow and done plenty of times before and much better too) it would've worked much better with Vergil's who want to rule mankind because he feels he has to which will conflict with Dante who wants to protect them and their freedom, the freedom he lost, because he feels he must that its his responsibility.

Kat was never forgotten...if she wasn't in a scene, it's because she had already done her part, or it was at the point she was kidnapped, and then those entire portions were about doing things to help her.

Kat was useful up to the very end of the game when Limbo was no longer something they needed to worry about. Remember how Dante said that they would have failed if not for Kat? He's right! Kat was just as integral to how things played out in the story as Dante and Vergil. Without Kat, things would have to have been written very differently.

And that is to say that the story would not work fine without her, because she is what helps Dante come out of his hedonistic asshole phase. The entire purpose of DmC's story was to show Dante growing up and taking responsibility and all that, and Kat was an important character in that. She wasn't a love interest, but she sure helped him see things differently, and even see the value in trusting others.

Worst of all they tried to emulate DMC4's ending with Kyrie and Nero (though not as romantic) but its the same the main character (Nero/Dante) starts to question his humanity and the female lead (Kyrie/Kat) reassures him as a human and welcomes him into the human race. However, with DMC4 it works better as Kyrie knows Nero much longer and much better than Kat has known Dante and at the beginning Dante came off as an a$$hole to Kat and she even shown disliking to him at the beginning and worked with him to make sure he compromises and works with them then they have one or two meaningful conversation and some interaction..but I digress...DmC unlike DMC1, DMC2, & DMC3 and hell even DMC4, the story would've been much better without the leading female (Kat).

I disagree wholeheartedly on that. There's no way the intended story could have worked if Kat or some other human-type character was there to help Dante's compassion grow. The whole idea is that Dante grew up his entire life without really knowing who or what he was. At the end of DmC, he came one step closer to defining it himself, even after his familial and racial brother made him question it. If Kat hadn't have been there, Dante would most likely have gone "Rule over humanity? Sounds good, bro! Let's do it!" or would have ended up killing Vergil without the interjection of a compassionate human.

All in all, there was a lot of stuff here that it seemed like you just didn't pay attention or didn't think about them much deeper than you could have, to reach similar conclusions I did.

Some of it is also just opinion, which isn't facts that can be readily debated beyond "well I disgree with [reasons]," anyway

 

[ZeroLove]

The title of this thread should be renamed "I think DmC's story is terrible" or "DmC's story is terrible, in my opinion", because as TWO mentions above and have proven time and time again, your posts are highly opinionated and less factual.

 

[AlchemistFromEden]

Okay the plot holes reconstruction.
omg you are clueless
Plot hole #1 counter-argument
They didn't had to reuse the same Hunter boss fight.There could've been other Hunters with separate combat abilities and appearances
and adding these would add what to the overarching plot? absolutely nothing, what would they all give a boss monologue afterwards explaining absolutely nothing that would affect anything
but Tameem and his team were probably too lazy to give us more bosses
because adding bosses to pad out a game's length is definitely lazy right, yes, more repetitive boss fights that add absolutely NOTHING to the narrative -_-
in a game with the lowest amount of bosses
and this is why you should look up **** before talking out of your ass,
-dmc1 five bosses that you fight multiple times
-dmc2 13 bosses that you talk multiple times
-dmc3 eight bosses not counting mini bosses
-dmc4 nine bosses
-DmC eight bosses
CHECK YOUR FACTS
boss fights and none of them were really any good.
because you say so and whatever you say is law right? -_- no, i enjoyed the bosses, they were uniquely designed, all fit the visual aesthetic of the previous levels, and all were fun to kill for me, does that make my opinion fact, no, thing is, a boss's quality is not determined SOLELY BY YOU
Its the writings fault to address them as Hunters
so because of a plural word we have to fight multiple hunters that would add absolutely nothing to the narrative -_- that's not a plothole, that you bitching about absolutely nothing
when there was only one and when they did address them as a group
because there are things such as demon collaborators which are much more believable than a bunch of monkey men chasing dante
even Kat refer to the Hunters as a group not one individual.
"what are you talking about who's after me"
"the hunter demon"
stop.talking.out.of.your.ass.
kat never refers to them as a group
So it makes no sense that if there were groups of these elite hunter demons
you are dwelling on absolutely nothing since she was probably referring to demon collaborators as well as the demons and the hunter himself
but only one is shown and ever shown and its odd the others despite being elite hunters
in other words, there are not multiple elite hunters since it is never directly stated that there are more than one big hunter demon
with one who found Dante can't find him now since he is gone out to be more public.
or because dante killed him in the first level -_- wtf are you even talking about
NT sure as hell weren't afraid to make us fight Poison again as Mundus (literally the same boss fight just re-skinned and a slight change up in moveset....a small moveset)
its not possible to reskin bossfights onto a model as different as mundus, their attacks are similar but Mundus is still unique as a boss
beat boss go to next platform if he/she spews magma on the floor and hit til health bar is low and demon pull or Hollow Vergil in DF which is practically Vergil with a few new tricks.
*GASP* HOLLOW VERGIL IS SIMILAR TO THE REAL VERGIL, OMGURRRD, WHAT SORCERY IS THIS -__-
MAJOR Plot hole #2: Why did it take Mundus so long to find Dante or even find out that he lives for
it doesn't because dante WAS IN A HELL PRISON
One Year?
yes one year
Mundus was looking for Dante eversince he raided Dante's home and killed his mother and imprisoned his father.
and he caught him before and dante was imprisoned and about to be killed by a bunch of demons READ VERGIL'S CHRONICLE!!! ACTUALLY HERE, SINCE YOU ARE SO INCLINED TO JUST SPOUT NONSENSE AND NEVER MAKE THE EFFORT TO LOOK THINGS UP BEFORE YOU SAY THINGS
http://devilmaycry.wikia.com/wiki/DmC:_Devil_May_Cry:_The_Chronicles_of_Vergil
stop spewing **** out of your ass, it doesn't add anything to the discussion and just makes you seem like an uninformed dolt

 

[Stylish Nero]

We didn't see all the Hunters, so suddenly that means they don't exist? They sent one because they thought it would be enough. It wasn't. The Hunter followed a pinpointed location (to Dante's trailer), and after being killed, that pinpoint no longer worked, as Dante was no longer there. They still "had his scent," but that can only do so much.

No they sent multiple Lilth only refers to them as HunterS not that they sent a Hunter or the Hunter but Hunters went out to find Dante. Well even after Mundus sent the entire city in a shock, don't tell me the Hunters couldn't find Dante or when they raided the Order base some couldn't have been sent there to deal with Dante considering they knew he worked for them...as Bob stated Dante is with the terrorist (The Order).

More Hunters could have been implemented in the game, but they probably didn't have the time or resources to put in another one and make it work in the narrative. I would have liked to see more of them show up, but...oh well.

THEY HAD 4 YEARS making this game. You can EASILY freaking squeeze another boss like the Hunter. One could've been there when they raided the HQ or sent there as precautionary measures when they made the Trade. That easy.

And "classic DMC did this so they could have to" is no excuse when it was really just game-padding back then. Repeated bosses are extremely boring sometimes, and the only time they work is when there's a narrative-driven reason for it, and even then it can still get boring.

I'm saying all the Hunters had to be the same, there could be other Hunters that were different in abilities and its the games fault for stating that they were more but only showing one when showing more would actually benefit the story wen you think about it and the game considering mobile bosses like the Hunter were neccessary cause giant punching bags (Mundus, Poison, and Bob) gets extremely boring.

Not a plothole. Maybe not but it doesn't make much sense and is a big missed opportunity.

Mundus probably isn't privy to everything ever dragged into Limbo. Plus, since Dante kills every demon he sees, there's no one to report back and tell them what exactly happened.

That doesn't make sense Mundus can sense it when Poison and his child and Lilith gets killed but not his other demon minions and cant he control Limbo himself as he shown to when enraged and when Lilith and his baby where killed he sent them into Limbo himself so he has control over it.

CCTV Cameras don't make one omnipotent, and his office doesn't have a direct feed to everything all at once. If he's out on business, or not watching a partifular feed, he'd probably miss things. Not to mention that it's still easy enough to avoid CCTV on the streets, and the fact that Dante still just looks like a normal dude. Not until "they had his scent" at the beginning of the game could they start picking Dante out of the crowds and dragging him into Limbo like they do in Under Watch.

I find it hard to believe that he controls everything and have cameras everywhere but he never found Dante for 10 years (maybe more) til recently even when he was trapped in one of his prisons and correction schools that he owns. Then so why was he dragged into limbo before they found him as he told Kat and the demons knew about him for quite some time and I find it hard to believe that they couldn't find a guy who lived in a trailer park on a pier and even then how can they not find a guy with a huge record was Mundus even paying attention.

Dante might be popular with the ladies at the nightclub that he frequents, but that doesn't instantly mean everyone is going to know he's the Son of Sparda. They explicitly called him "Son of Sparda" because they didn't know his identity, like his name being Dante or what he looks like.

Lilith owns that club and she knows that Mundus was looking for a guy named Dante so you tell me she didn't hear Dante's name pop up once since he is so popular with the dancers there and even the bouncer. The dancers and the bouncer that all WORK for Lilith.

Mundus also didn't just up and go "oh, he's still alive." He actually said he needed to take care of one last loose end. He knew about Dante the whole time, he just wasn't a priority.

Yeah I messed up there but my point still stands.

And having a criminal record doesn't mean too much either, as I'm sure there are plenty of people far better and far worse than Dante in that regard. Dante has a history of violence, but there's no simple way to put two and two together and come out with him having been the Son of Sparda.

He killed a nurse, has a huge track record of fighting the police (who look like the SWAT team that Mundus sent to swarm Order and retrieve Lilith), and is very popular among the news especially Barbas, who works for Mundus...so you tell me Mundus couldn't have spotted Dante earlier.

Dante also falls off the grid after a certain point in his life, and some of what Barbas says is all lies anyway, so don't take everything that guy said as fact on Dante's history.

Yet he is constantly thrown into Limbo by demons and have fought them his entire life. Lets see not only was in one of the penitentiaries that Mundus OWNS but is quite popular among the public in a city Mundus owns.

 

[AlchemistFromEden]

The title of this thread should be renamed "I think DmC's story is terrible" or "DmC's story is terrible, in my opinion", because as TWO mentions above and have proven time and time again, your posts are highly opinionated and less factual.

i think it should be renamed to my opinion is fact and i'm delusional enough to think that tameem will see this

 

[ZeroLove]

i think it should be renamed to my opinion is fact and i'm delusional enough to think that tameem will see this

Yeah, but you are also alot more rude to those who dislike DmC than I am. ;P

 

[AlchemistFromEden]

Yeah, but you are also alot more rude to those who dislike DmC than I am. ;P

rightfully so

 

[ZeroLove]

rightfully so

Disliking the game does not justify you going berserk on them. However, if they are being "haters", as in doing the best they can to really kick down the game and being all "if you like this game, you suck!", then I say it is justified. But hating a game and coming up with good reasons for why they hate the game is just as alright as it is to like the game and coming up with good reasons for that as well.

 

[Stylish Nero]

-dmc1 five bosses that you fight multiple times
-dmc2 13 bosses that you talk multiple times
-dmc3 eight bosses not counting mini bosses
-dmc4 nine bosses
-DmC eight bosses

DmC....8 bosses....Hunter, Poison, Bob, Spawn, Mundus, and Vergil....I only count 6 bosses here sir and the DLC boss Hollow Vergil doesn't count...as we're referring to the main story here.

because you say so and whatever you say is law right? -_- no, i enjoyed the bosses, they were uniquely designed, all fit the visual aesthetic of the previous levels, and all were fun to kill for me, does that make my opinion fact, no, thing is, a boss's quality is not determined SOLELY BY YOU

A bosses quality is determined by their difficulty, challenge, effort put into their movesets, and combat ability and the DmC bosses suck in these regards and its not just me plenty of people including professional to not so professional gaming journalists and reviewers have said so (Yahtzee, AlarmHat, AngryJoe, GamingBrit, and more).

so because of a plural word we have to fight multiple hunters that would add absolutely nothing to the narrative -_- that's not a plothole, that you bitching about absolutely nothing

It makes what Lilith and Kay says about them contradictory. These guys are professional fighters and hunters and only one of them found Dante despite all of the controversy he stirred up

because there are things such as demon collaborators which are much more believable than a bunch of monkey men chasing dante

It makes more sense to send high leveled professional killers and hunters to deal with the Son of Sparda than a guy who was taken down by a knife.:|

in other words, there are not multiple elite hunters since it is never directly stated that there are more than one big hunter demon or because dante killed him in the first level -_- wtf are you even talking about

Then Lilith wouldn't refer to them as Hunters and just Hunter if there was just one and even Kat strongly implied that there was more like him by saying "Hunters are brute fighters".

it doesn't because dante WAS IN A HELL PRISON

Dantes was also in plenty of penitentiaries and correction facilities as a child why try kill him a year before and not before....doesn't make much sense since they wanted him dead.

and he caught him before and dante was imprisoned and about to be killed by a bunch of demons READ VERGIL'S CHRONICLE!!! ACTUALLY HERE, SINCE YOU ARE SO INCLINED TO JUST SPOUT NONSENSE AND NEVER MAKE THE EFFORT TO LOOK THINGS UP BEFORE YOU SAY THINGS
http://devilmaycry.wikia.com/wiki/DmC:_Devil_May_Cry:_The_Chronicles_of_Vergil
stop spewing **** out of your ass, it doesn't add anything to the discussion and just makes you seem like an uninformed dolt

Hmmmm....missed that part...look who is using insults like a mature person. Good for you
Okay I redact that but thanks to that brings up another plot hole...how can Sparda save Dante or give him Rebellion since he is trapped in an internal prison with no hope of escape says Vergil?

 

[AlchemistFromEden]

Disliking the game does not justify you going berserk on them. However, if they are being "haters", as in doing the best they can to really kick down the game and being all "if you like this game, you suck!", then I say it is justified. But hating a game and coming up with good reasons for why they hate the game is just as alright as it is to like the game and coming up with good reasons for that as well.

some people don't like the game for legitimate reasons but in terms of threads like this stupid one they don't deserve politeness which is why i put this child on my ignore list before he had a chance to kill any more of my braincells with his nonsensical posts -__-