DmC. What was missing?

[Kam]

snip.

In classic DMC (most notably DMC3, because DMC4 ruined gunslinger) all of gunslinger's abilities can be executed quickly so you can stay on the move. By contrast, abilities like rainstorm now have an obnoxiously long (and visually terrible) windup you have to suffer through before damage is actually dealt

Constant movement and constant action, that's the core of DMC, and the gunslinger style should be no different. Classic gunslinger was full of very fast moves that could deal good damage, but deal it fast enough so you could get the hell out in a tight situation, and rainstorm was up there with the best of those moves. Not anymore though.
Compared to a good DMC3 gunslinger (like this guy)

the rebooted DmC gunslinger is an embarrassment.

Then there's trickster, which lost its number one most powerful move: air trick. The replacement, angel grapple, is much slower and lacks the visual impressiveness of instantly teleporting into an enemy's face. The rebooted trickster style is slow, feels weak, and seems completely designed around the platforming that now features so prominently in DmC.

Swordmaster got to keep everything. Good for swordmaster.

Then again, since new dante is much closer to nero's base kit, it would probably be more fair to compare him against nero and not classic dante. New dante has almost everything nero had, excluding buster grabs and exceed. Once again, this seems like an odd move because exceed was hands down nero's most iconic and powerful mechanic. It wasn't even prohibitively difficulty like the removed royalguard style was; even a completely casual player could get a one bar rev semi-consistently, and it was always worth it to see the fiery explosion on your next attack.

Most of the lower end things DmC did to combat were good moves and made the game more appealing and accessible to people who weren't already seasoned truestyle pros, but as soon as I start looking at the top end, everything I see just makes me sad

PS - and ricoshot is far from a replacement for twosome time. One of the best uses for twosome time was locking an enemy in the air with bullets, and then popping one or two quick shots at another enemy trying to hit you just to stagger him, without stopping your combo on your current target. Ricoshot is too slow to pull that off

 

[OppressedWriter]

Well, like I said, I hope that Rainstorm is either made more like it is in DMC4 or there are realistic alternatives that allow the same kind of gameplay mechanic as inertia. Also, I'd like to see twosome time come back in some form as well, because Ricoshot while definitely useful and cool looking is not good enough to be a total replacement for it

As for the trickster thing, I think you're wrong on how angel pull is the alternative, you can still teleport right on top of enemies using angel dodge in the air. It's just not as necessary, so you rarely see it being used in creative ways. I just started experimenting with it to create combos and it is just a more flexible version of trickster.

And I don't know if you missed my point about how if you demon dodge an enemies attack, and then angel dodge while in slow motion from the demon dodge,you will teleport at lightning speed right back near the demon. This is very much like the mechanic of trickster you are referring to. Also, if you really love Trickster than Vergil in Vergil's Downfall should blow you away. He is the Trickster Style on steroids and has the ability to teleport to any enemy that the player has an embedded sword in no matter how far he gets away from them. The best way to think of it is demon pull and angel pull but with teleportation. And believe me when I say, its quite insane when you are blinking all over the battlefield with a doppelganger causing mass destruction and havoc.

 

[Macabre]

Charm.

 

[IncarnatedDemon]

60 fps
Taunt
Manual Lock
Consistency in cinematics: In many cutscenes the quality is less. While some cutscenes quality is off the charts. And in Downfall the "less quality" cinematics isnt used, it's cartoonish cutscene (poorly done).
Bloody Palace for Vergi

 

[MultiBro]

As for the trickster thing, I think you're wrong on how angel pull is the alternative, you can still dodge right on top of the enemies face using angel dodge in the air. It's just not as necessary, so you rarely see it being used in creative ways. I just started experimenting with it to create combos and it is just a more flexible version of trickster.

Actually, the trickster style is way more versatile than angel pull since you have alot more options to move around. Ground dash, air trick which you can direct in any direction, teleport to the enemy without having to stick a summoned sword like Vergil etc. In DMC3 the Trickster style was even better with wallrunning and such.

 

[DemonSlayer6]

The devil may cry reboot is easily one of my favorite games. but it isnt without its flaws or missing pieces. here are my top five:
1. Holy water- its been in every game since the first. i dont need it, but i just liked having for those oh $H!+ situations.
2. TwoSome time- Dante is a badass sword fighter, but for me, he has always been a gunslinger first and a swordsmen next. To me this move is just as recognizanle as stinger.
3. Wall Running/Wall Hike- This one just looks awesome and was fun to do. it could easily be added in, like in Darksiders 2, just hold the jump button while junping into the wall.
4. More action-y cutscenes/ Vergil- We are all aware that Dante and Vergil can fight with style. but there wasnt alot of cutscenes showing off their skills. especially vergil. more of that would have been nice.
5. Angels- Holy Crap. I cant stress my frustration enough on this subject. I have said it plenty of times in other threads. but this was my single biggest disappointment with DmC. They could have atleast added in an angel character to help out in a few cutscenes. i mean we have phineas (Demon.). Now have an angel counter part. Someone like Castiel from Supernatural. Now that is a Badass Angel.

To be honest, point 1 was something I've never noticed up until I have read this thread tonight. o__o I have no idea HOW I could have possibly missed it, but yes, Holy Water was a neat item up for sale that's usually always a usual part of my difficult battles.

And I could not agree more STRONGLY with you on point 4.
The game was neat, no lies. I thoroughly enjoyed it, everything was amazing... however... the one thing I was quite disappointed in was the lack of Vergil's skill. When he stabbed Mundus from behind trying to save Dante at the top of that building, no style whatsoever emanated from that attack. In fact he looked very elementary using Yamato, and I was upset at how amateur-ish he wielded that awesome-sauce weapon. (There were just... SO many ways he could have stabbed Mundus in style XD it was just painful to watch, IDK)

Point 5 is a good thought. I actually wondered the same thing not long ago, and I was thinking the possibilities of perhaps an angel woman (maybe even their aunt or something? Eva was an angel, I'm sure she had plenty of sisters in that regard?) who helped Dante out along the way, and maybe even Vergil. >>

 

[OppressedWriter]

Actually, the trickster style is way more versatile than angel pull since you have alot more options to move around. Ground dash, air trick which you can direct in any direction, teleport to the enemy without having to stick a summoned sword like Vergil etc. In DMC3 the Trickster style was even better with wallrunning and such.

Yeah, I guess what i'm trying to say is that Angel Pull isn't the actual replacement; I only referred to angel pull for one move, angel lift, which seems like a variation on Tricksters dash towards enemy on ground and enemy step off them,

My overall argument is that the actual angel dodge mechanic works just like trickster. But then again, I just started experimenting with DMC4, so who knows, I might feel different when I get a better feel for it. As for DMC3, haven't played it, so I'll have to take your word about Trickster in that one.

 

[OppressedWriter]

Then again, since new dante is much closer to nero's base kit, it would probably be more fair to compare him against nero and not classic dante. New dante has almost everything nero had, excluding buster grabs and exceed. Once again, this seems like an odd move because exceed was hands down nero's most iconic and powerful mechanic. It wasn't even prohibitively difficulty like the removed royalguard style was; even a completely casual player could get a one bar rev semi-consistently, and it was always worth it to see the fiery explosion on your next attack.

Well, I do think the concept behind the Exceed mechanic makes a return in DmC. For example, Nero has the high roller that can launch anything if its at max level and Vergil gets a move called Solar Flare, a move that requires precise timing to execute, and can launch any enemy if done properly. They also share a lot of other moves like summoned swords, the exceed helmbreaker/vergil's demon stomp, Doppelganger Devil triggers, etc.

Watch you can see father just like son or well father a lot like son.
Solar Flare is clearly inspired by High Roller.

 

[Kam]

Well, like I said, I hope that Rainstorm is either made more like it is in DMC4 or there are realistic alternatives that allow the same kind of gameplay mechanic as inertia. Also, I'd like to see twosome time come back in some form as well, because Ricoshot while definitely useful and cool looking is not good enough to be a total replacement for it

As for the trickster thing, I think you're wrong on how angel pull is the alternative, you can still teleport right on top of enemies using angel dodge in the air. It's just not as necessary, so you rarely see it being used in creative ways. I just started experimenting with it to create combos and it is just a more flexible version of trickster.

And I don't know if you missed my point about how if you demon dodge an enemies attack, and then angel dodge while in slow motion from the demon dodge,you will teleport at lightning speed right back near the demon. This is very much like the mechanic of trickster you are referring to. Also, if you really love Trickster than Vergil in Vergil's Downfall should blow you away. He is the Trickster Style on steroids and has the ability to teleport to any enemy that the player has an embedded sword in no matter how far he gets away from them. The best way to think of it is demon pull and angel pull but with teleportation. And believe me when I say, its quite insane when you are blinking all over the battlefield with a doppelganger causing mass destruction and havoc.

what you're describing is a two-step setup process in order to teleport, which is a far cry from the lightning fast teleporting speed of original trickster. Rebooted vergil's "trickster" kit is a huge step up, but still falls short in terms of speed and power from vergil's original. New vergil's teleporting has to be set up using a summoned sword, which makes his teleporting a lot more rigid than it used to be, but once he's embedded a sword he's got all the teleporting abilities he used to, which is pretty awesome.

He does have more trouble than he used to with navigating crowds since switching targets is more of a chore than it used to be, but I am a huge fan of doppelganger though, since classic vergil's DT wasn't good for anything outside of trigger

His attack animations look a lot more awkward than the original though, I still can't get over that :/

 

[OppressedWriter]

Well, that is a really old video and probably not the best illustration of how truly fast and crazy the teleportation capabilities of Vergil really for players that are really good at the game.

Also, I think you're putting far too much weight on the requirement of embedded swords, literally every attack you do with Vergil plants a sword in an enemy. Simply put, if there is an enemy they probably have swords in them the second you see them spawn and do any type of attack on them.

Also, you're neglecting the awesomeness of being able to not only teleport to your enemies but to make them teleport to you. It works both ways and words don't describe the adrenaline rush it provides, I suggest you try experimenting with it on a PC preferably with super Vergil enabled.

 

[Kam]

Well, I do think the concept behind the Exceed mechanic makes a return in DmC. For example, Nero has the high roller that can launch anything if its at max level and Vergil gets a move called Solar Flare, a move that requires precise timing to execute, and can launch any enemy if done properly. They also share a lot of other moves like summoned swords, the exceed helmbreaker/vergil's demon stomp, Doppelganger Devil triggers, etc.

Watch you can see father just like son or well father a lot like son.
Solar Flare is clearly inspired by High Roller.

max-acted attacks were not guaranteed launchers. They hit much harder, and were better suited for bashing through whatever armor was preventing an enemy from being launched, but the primary purpose was just hitting harder. Execution is also much different now. Nero could "rev" any attack and, if timed properly, his next attack would gain a single rank (or three ranks, if timed perfectly) of exceed. At no point would nero have to stop and "charge" his exceed gauge in order to use it. Vergil's solar flare can only be used if you stand still and charge a move, then release it at the right time. It's more similar to any of dante's just charged abilities than an actual exceed system, the only similarity it retains is the fire graphics

for reference, exceed in use. Keep an eye on the red gauge at the top left, that signifies when he's successfully revved his sword. Notice charging the bar is just a natural part of whatever combo he's performing, and not a specific action he has to stop and perform

 

[OppressedWriter]

Umm, I'm pretty sure High Roller is a guaranteed launcher of every enemy at max exceed. And I understand how exceed works, you're right, but they brought back the little mechanic of precise timing to execute more powerful versions of normal attacks. It just the "accessible" version in DmC,

I personally do find myself enjoying it right now as I'm experimenting with Nero, I like the way you can rhythm the combo presses with exceed presses and do what your talking about, definitely a cool skill based idea.

 

[Kam]

Umm, I'm pretty sure High Roller is a guaranteed launcher of every enemy at max exceed. And I understand how exceed works, you're right, but they brought back the little mechanic of precise timing to execute more powerful versions of normal attacks. It just the "accessible" version in DmC,

I personally do find myself enjoying it right now as I'm experimenting with Nero, I like the way you can rhythm the combo presses with exceed presses and do what your talking about, definitely a cool skill based idea.

below DMD difficulty it's essentially a guaranteed launch, but if an enemy activates their DT heavy armor, and they already had heavy armor on top of that, a max-act high roller isn't guaranteed to launch

 

[788Masri]

id have liked if they ignored to 20 mission tradition and made the game as long as they wanted. taking their time to flush out the plot to a true master piece as the NT story is juggling many balls in the air and 20 missions insnt long enough to give the characters the time they need to become great.

60 fps
Taunt
Manual Lock
Consistency in cinematics: In many cutscenes the quality is less. While some cutscenes quality is off the charts. And in Downfall the "less quality" cinematics isnt used, it's cartoonish cutscene (poorly done).
Bloody Palace for Vergi

i didnt mind the 30fps infact i didnt notice the difference, as for Vergil cut scenes just throwing it out there its highly likely that it was put together last minute on left over budget because fans kept asking for Vergil to be playable.

 

[REAPER 3142]

Here's a more exciting representation of rainstorm in a combo video I made. DmC is a different type of game and I readily admit that. The best way to see it is as each level is an action movie set and you're the all powerful director in charge of it.

You see in the video from the other guy, he fails to rotate the camera as he descends that one little thing alone would make the rainstorm look 100% better and more stylish, he could also seamlessly transition into Calibur to get forward momentum, you have to judge the game and the quality of its moves by seeing how people good at the game use them.

Dude......I thought I was good but holy crap.........that was the best DmC combat I have ever seen.

 

[OppressedWriter]

Thanks. .

 

[Dominus]

Good music was missing.. ugh. Though I did hate having to hear the same battle track all the time in the old DMC games. Like the old DMCs had some nice ambient tracks which were ruined by "the fear in your eye.....blah blah blah."

 

[Kam]

Good music was missing.. ugh. Though I did hate having to hear the same battle track all the time in the old DMC games. Like the old DMCs had some nice ambient tracks which were ruined by "the fear in your eye.....blah blah blah."

this. The standard fight music of the originals did tend to get old (you can only listen to the first 10 seconds of the same fight so many times) but the boss music was always amazing. Vergil2 is still one of my favorite boss tracks of all time

 

[KRSkull]

Personally i don't think that the game is missing anything. i mean i agree that there were a lot of cool stuff in the previous games. But remember Dante's memory was wiped out.

and let's not forget what Vergil said to Kat "He's Raw. Just like you were when i first found you"

 

[MultiBro]

Personally i don't think that the game is missing anything. i mean i agree that there were a lot of cool stuff in the previous games. But remember Dante's memory was wiped out.

DmC have no connection to the previous DMC games. Dantes memory loss was about his background in DmC.