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DmC. What was missing?

Unless you can show me using examples why I should consider angel dodging more like dashing than table hopping?

Saying "it's the truth" won't make it that way, let's see some examples to back it up.

You've done nothing but plug your own videos.


so you've given up trying to present any kind of facts and you're just going to play victim now? Okay. It was good "talking" with you. Peace out

it's the same video you showed us last time, only now you're evading in the air instead of on the ground. Use trickster offensively, that's kind of the whole point of the last 4 pages. You should know, you were there

Why do you keep looking for a fight when there is none? If I try to provide proof I'm plugging videos. If I don't provide videos then I don't meet the criteria you set forth to consider changing your mind. Which one is it? Because I was only responding to one of the questions asked by you: why should anyone think that angel dodge is anything more than just a table hopper equivalent? So, that's what I attempted to do, and you continue to respond with passive aggressive condescension.

I believe it provides more functionality than Table hopper does, because it allows fast mobility without an enemy attack evasion requirement therefore it isn't the same thing. Other then that, I'm not sure what your definition of aggressive is, do you want me to repeatedly jump cancel and stay in the air, because that's already easy to do in DmC. Does aggressive apply to using angel dodge to set up combos? And once again, stop being so condescending in your replies.
 

Kam

Wall of text crits you for 600
Why do you keep looking for a fight when there is none? If I try to provide proof I'm plugging videos. If I don't provide videos then I don't meet the criteria you set forth to consider changing your mind. Which one is it? Because I was only responding to one of the questions asked by you: why should anyone think that angel dodge is anything more than just a table hopper equivalent? So, that's what I attempted to do, and you continue to respond with passive aggressive condescension.

I believe it provides more functionality than Table hopper does, because it allows fast mobility without an enemy attack evasion requirement therefore it isn't the same thing. Other then that, I'm not sure what your definition of aggressive is, do you want me to repeatedly jump cancel and stay in the air, because that's already easy to do in DmC. Does aggressive apply to using angel dodge to set up combos? And once again, stop being so condescending in your replies.


Trickster isn't as offensive as it used to be, and that's something I've been saying since post #1 on this particular topic. If you weren't clear on my definition of highly aggressive trickster combat, you should have asked me to clarify it, because posting two highlights of a defensive trickster was not constructive.

The echidna video has shown up a few times in this thread, and illustrates a few core parts of the old trickster kit, very few of which have anything to do with evasion. Whenever the boss tries to position away from the player, a few short teleports later and dante is in its face pounding away, even following it hundreds of feet into the air when it tries to leave the arena, and this happens in the blink of an eye.

Old trickster could mercilessly follow a fleeing opponent anywhere, from simple repositions to up in the sky, and it was so fast that its use in the middle of a combo wasn't always visible unless pointed out (did you notice the star rave in the echidna video? watch his feet for the telltale sky star circle). If you want to convince me, this is what you have to do, because evading a dozen enemies for several minutes is not "aggressive play"

Edit - just found a DmC video brea posted that shows off, among other things, a star rave. It's much slower than before, but I'll leave it to you guys to decide, is this close enough to the original to count?

Edit2 - taunt button is also missing from this game. I can't believe I didn't include that in my first post
 

Kam

Wall of text crits you for 600
oh, and while I'm thinking about it
here is a high level combo including the trickster ability: flipper. You don't see it often because people making combo videos don't take hits often. Consider how fast that recovery was, now consider how it would have effected the video if dante had fallen all the way to the ground and you had to wait for his recovery animation? Here's a second one to show the difference if you're in the air when you take the hit (bonus feature: watch for another 20 seconds to see how high you can go using trickster, starting from the ground without an airborne target). Flipper is also seen several additional times throughout the video. If you want to challenge yourself, see if you can spot them. No cheating and watching the life bar

and here is the trickster ability: mustang, being used to set up a combo. You'd use mustang over air trick in this situation because air trick wouldn't give you enough height to do an aerial (the enemy is too short, and grounded) unless you perform a second JC after the teleport, and a simple dash into JC wouldn't work on the ground.

It took a lot of work to find these, people don't exactly tag their combo videos with mustang and flipper ;p
 
So, I guess you can admit now that mustang is ground only move, and there's equivalent for called angel lift, like I've been saying this whole time. I'll watch the videos when I get back, but the point isn't that DmC is the same game, it has a lot combo potential in its own way. But all I see here, oh well DMC4 does this, so its better, not necessarily, if DmC brings something fun and fresh to the table, it would be nice if some of you would acknowledge it.

The reason Dante doesn't have Flipper is because like Nero you're supposed use his Devil Trigger to recover from losing your balance. Dante's devil trigger will recover him in DmC even if he gets hit in the air and is falling. It's the only way to prevent a fall. That's why it a skill like flipper was removed.

Which all goes to the main point I was trying to make, that redundant skills were removed and put to better use, not all of them should have went, but a lot of the omissions were for good sound reasons.

So, out of 5 skills, if we must count them, DmC Dante has at least 4 equivalents.

You also aren't asking something reasonable, there isn't an opponent that is ever out of reach of DmC Dante. There isn't a way to create the of hectic spectacle you want because there isn't an enemy that runs from Dante, if there was I'd be able to give you what you want. So, its not because DmC Dante can't do what you want, its that he doesn't have the types enemies or bosses required for the type of Trickster experience you want.

Edit: Just PM me, and we'll discuss this further. And I"m not trying to be stubborn, but you're wrong about Mustang, you can't perform mustang by holding B in the air. It does not work, it isn't considered a move, you're thinking of doing a normal enemy step. I know, because I've been working on comparison videos. To do mustang you must hold B until you touch the target, that is what Mustang is, if you do that in the air nothing will happen, because you're not dashing you're sky star gliding.

In DmC, you have angel pull and demon pull and they both have lift mechanic that has a unique animation that is different from enemy step. Mustang is the only move that has a unique animation in DMC4, it looks very much like a cross between angel lift and demon step. In terms of mechanics, they both are incredibly useful in their own ways. Trickster Air Trick though is obviously better, that was already a given. But there's no point in DmC giving dante Trickster from a mechanical standpoint, the way he is designed he already has enough tools to bring enemies close and reach them in rapid time. Also, I'll give you the thing about style for Angel Pull, but mechanically its very powerful, the payoff (grants brief invulnerability) when being done to an enemy. Kicker is great for creating distance between yourself and an enemy, and it looks great when you follow it with an aquilas calibur to catch the enemy as they're flying away.
 

Kam

Wall of text crits you for 600
So, I guess you can admit now that mustang is ground only move, and there's equivalent for called angel lift, like I've been saying this whole time. I'll watch the videos when I get back, but the point isn't that DmC is the same game, it has a lot combo potential in its own way. But all I see here, oh well DMC4 does this, so its better, not necessarily, if DmC brings something fun and fresh to the table, it would be nice if some of you would acknowledge it.
-Edited, mustang actually can't be used in the air. Just tried it, you were right-

One thing mustang does have that a basic grapple+jump doesn't is invulnerability frames, which allow you to dash through attacks before vaulting up, something that's often underestimated in usefulness

As a side note on invincibility frames, while star rave isn't the most powerful airborne tech for damage dealing, consider all the invulnerability frames from each JC'd sky star. For nearly half of this combo's duration dante is invulnerable, in addition to being highly mobile and dealing constant damage. This utility cannot be replicated using angel lift, or any other DmC tech.

Mustang also grants an unexpectedly large chunk of DT, which is useful since DT can be used to double the mobility of the trickster style, or dish out insane damage with distortion techniques (the most famous of which is the distorted real impact). Angel lift could replicate the basic "get above the bad guy" maneuver in two separate steps, but it would be much slower, grant no DT, and carry no invincibility frames. If all mustang did was "get above the enemy" nobody would use it because jumping is so much easier, but all the hidden utility makes it valuable to those that know how to use it.

PS - I timestamped all my linked clips to the appropriate section, you don't have to hunt through or wait for the relevant 10 second clip from each video. I'm not looking to waste your time.
 

Demi-fiend

Metempsychosis
Supporter 2014
I never liked the idea of "Distortion" taking the place of "Ex-Act". Dante should have had his own version of Ex-Act... for all of his melee moves, like Nero did.

And judging by the quality of the top combo vids out there, I know that this can be done.

Like I said before, I don't care about Devil May Cry. I do however, care about people present their arguments. Not liking the tone of this thread.

And I just know... I mean, it's almost a certainty... that a game will come along (not DmC2, but another IP) that be able to not only compete, but will actually be able to perform a bit better than DMC3.

One day...
 

Kam

Wall of text crits you for 600
I never liked the idea of "Distortion" taking the place of "Ex-Act". Dante should have had his own version of Ex-Act... for all of his melee moves, like Nero did.

And judging by the quality of the top combo vids out there, I know that this can be done.

Like I said before, I don't care about Devil May Cry. I do however, care about people present their arguments. Not liking the tone of this thread.

And I just know... I mean, it's almost a certainty... that a game will come along (not DmC2, but another IP) that be able to not only compete, but will actually be able to perform a bit better than DMC3.

One day...
distortion was very powerful, and satisfying to pull off, but hands down ex-act was just way more fun. There's something special about hitting that rev button at the right time and causing a freaking explosion that wrecks everything around you that distortion's "hm, I know I timed that right, so my attack did 3x damage just now" couldn't match
 

Fran0823

DmC and DMC why can't we have both?
Probably more stances I would have pulled a Kingdom Hearts and have a L1-menu pop up allowing you to change your gear for example L1-Up gives you the standar rebellion, osiris,aquila..etc gear, L1-Down gives you another set of weapons focused on other areas

L1+Left= DLC Classic Dante gear, with Nevan and Alastor =D
 
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